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Re: Over heating red warning light flashing

 

Thanks to all (especially Duane) for enlightening me about the red light issue. Gotta say I feel a bit ¡®dumb¡¯ to have not checked the coolant level straight away. Had no clue that the light was for monitoring coolant level. Wish I had an owners manual but bought the EV used and seller had lost it.
So thanks again and Happy motoring out there! :)
Re: Over heating red warning light flashing

 

I tried to "clean" the sensor with some wire and when I refilled the orb the light didn't come on.

Going to try to suction out the excess and see if the light comes back on -- the sensor being dirty and not completely broken would explain it being intermittent at first and constant now. Also try the continuity with both variables. I hadn't thought to check it that way.

Just knowing that the problem is in the orb sensor and not the overall temperature is good news. I was always fearful that the temp gauge was misreading -- which is why we replaced all the other sensors when we were doing other work.
Re: Over heating red warning light flashing

 
Edited

Good tip on the cluster.? I believe that my cluster has bad connections also.? When I was working underneath the dash there, my cluster display went crazy due to minor movement of the harness cable.? I was eventually able to fiddle with it (was on the road) and get everything showing correctly again without repair but I believe it is a weak spot that wants attention.??

I guess that an easy way to check the coolant level sensor would be to pull the connector and check continuity across the pins on the orb while full and then drain, siphon or suction out (turkey baster/syringe) enough fluid to make it low and check again.? If continuity is different from full to say half full, then it's not the orb/sensor.

Oh - now I read that you did test it.? Good.? Easier to fix than the cluster.? I would definitely try cleaning everything first.
Re: Over heating red warning light flashing

 

Anything else weird going on with your gauge cluster? Similar issue with ours and it was loose solder joints on the board actually.?

On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 2:29 PM Chandler via <priebecl=[email protected]> wrote:
Check the 2 pair of connectors on the outside too.? Perhaps "scrub" them with left over pipe cleaner.?

Re: Over heating red warning light flashing

 

Check the 2 pair of connectors on the outside too.? Perhaps "scrub" them with left over pipe cleaner.?
Re: Over heating red warning light flashing

 

It's not low. The light starts flashing the second the Rialta is turned on after checking the level.

I'll try cleaning the sensor otherwise i'll replace the orb.?

Thanks!
Re: Oxygen sensor, N80, gassy start and when hot & high?

 

On Sun, Feb 19, 2023 at 06:00 PM, Michael Diehr wrote:
I've read some posts mentioning that failing Oxygen sensors can cause the N80 to malfunction and not throw a CEL, but I'm wondering if this is rumor or there's actual science behind it?
I don't understand all I know about this, but I believe that could be true under exceptional circumstances.? The ECM controls the N80 based on other inputs, including the O2 Sensors.? However, in most situations where the O2 sensors were 'bad', you'd get a CEL.? I think they'd have to be reacting very slowly to not throw a CEL nor open the N80.? The training manual for EVAP, 841903, says:
"Based on information from the Oxygen Sensors about the fuel to air ratio in the exhaust, the ECM opens the EVAP Canister Purge Regulator Valve and allows vapor from the EVAP Canister to be drawn into the Intake Manifold."

BTW, I was going to upload the relevant section, but apparently the group is set up so that only moderators can upload files or photos.? They could be included as attachments though.
--
Duane
05HD Rialta
220K Miles
Re: Over heating red warning light flashing

 

So you're saying the fluid level is NOT low?
1) NOT replaceable...
2) try cleaning the sensor. Nothing special there, two metal probes covered by water.
Re: Oxygen sensor, N80, gassy start and when hot & high?

 

Circling back to my original question - is there anything else that can cause the N80 to fail to open enough? Certainly, if the N80 (or the hoses to or from it) are clogged, one would expect it to perform poorly. But my N80 is brand new and the hoses are clear.

I've read some posts mentioning that failing Oxygen sensors can cause the N80 to malfunction and not throw a CEL, but I'm wondering if this is rumor or there's actual science behind it?

On Feb 17, 2023, at 6:45 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 08:29 PM, FlashVan wrote:
when I opened the gas cap it began to ¡°boil¡± and gas actually spewed out of the filler tube That's a common sign that the N-80 valve (or related tubing) isn't working. The whole purpose of the valve is to allow the fumes to be sucked into the engine to be burned after the engine warms up.
--
Duane
05HD Rialta
220K Miles

Re: Over heating red warning light flashing

 

I did this test this morning and the sensor in the overflow orb is what is causing me problems (makes sense since I replaced the other sensors).

In order to fix this I have to replace the entire overflow orb correct? I can't just replace the sensor in there -- its built into the orb?
I'd love to only see that light flash when there was an actual problem.

Thanks
DTW
Re: Over heating red warning light flashing

 

Mine isn¡¯t leaking. I always check it because of this light going off.?


So it seems my issue is my reservoir or sensor there. Wish I would¡¯ve know this before I changed a bunch of temperature sensors.?


Glad to learn this.?
Re: Over heating red warning light flashing

 

The blinking light is for monitoring coolant level (2 pin sensor located in the round overflow orb) and coolant temperature (4 pin sensor in the plastic housing mounted just below #4 spark plug) This is for the 5 cylinder engines, I have no experience on the VR6 engines so not sure where the temperature sensor is located.

The simple way to check if the sensor is generating the blinking light is to undo the connector and jump the female leads with a paperclip or short bit of wire. For the temperature sensor, these are leads 2 and 3 which are diagonally across from each other (the numbers are cast into the plastic connector.

If the blinking continues after each of these tests, then read up on reflowing the solder joints on the Voltage stabilizer/regulator in the instrument cluster.

http://www.1946vw.co.uk/vwbooks/vw_info/t4_gauges.htm

Translated page from the T4 Wiki site:
https://1-t4--wiki-de.translate.goog/wiki/Spannungskonstanter?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_enc=1


On 02/18/2023 9:25 AM Carl Hansen via groups.io <carl_hansen@...> wrote:


Red Light is NOT a temperature sensor!

It's a Coolant Low sensor!

Top off. the coolant and start looking for Slow Leaks!

Ch

Re: Over heating red warning light flashing

 

Red Light is NOT a temperature sensor!

It's a Coolant Low sensor!

Top off. the coolant and start looking for Slow Leaks!
?
Ch
Re: Oxygen sensor, N80, gassy start and when hot & high?

 

Just a thought...maybe a small mice got into the exhaust and died in there
and its remnants are in there??
Its also good idea to plug your van's 2 batteries onto a Battery Tender, if
it is not going to be driven for a while.
-Caroline

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Michael
Diehr
Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2023 4:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [eurovanupdate] Oxygen sensor, N80, gassy start and when hot &
high?

My 2000 EVC has over 100k miles.

In the past few years I've noticed some symptoms, and I wonder if they could
be connected:

* very gassy / rich smelling exhaust at startup - not "evacuate the
neighborhood" bad but "air out the garage for a while" bad. Definitely
coming from the exhaust pipe only.
* after the van warms up, this stops, and subsequent warm starts don't have
this problem
* sometimes, a "tick tick tick" noise upon cold start, especially if the van
hasn't been driven in weeks. This usually goes away in minutes as the van
warms up, and often doesn't come back for days.
* when it's very hot and/or at high altitude, gas fumes - these are not
coming from the exhaust, but possibly from the EVAP system hoses around the
gas tank or maybe from engine compartment?
* sometimes the tank "gurgles" after filling, and this happens even after I
rehabilitated and later replaced my EVAP canister

On the positive side:
* R&R evap canister
* new gas cap
* new N80 valve
* all new plugs, wires, and coil packs (which fixed some misfires, but did
not change these other symptoms)
* no codes
* MPG is expected
* passes smog

Basically, if you only encountered this van after it had warmed up, and
never took it to the high desert, you would think it was running perfectly.

I have a few ideas - some of these are my own, and some distilled from prior
posts on the list:

1. this is all normal, the van always runs in "open circuit" mode at
startup, which runs rich, and I'm not remembering how gassy older vehicles
are (I do live in California and my other car is an EV).
And, the other gassy smell when hot & high is due to extreme driving
conditions (110F, high altitude) and just a flaw with Eurovans.

2. the "tick tick" noise sounds like a hydraulic valve lifter that lost
pressure, which could cause incomplete combustion leading to the gassy
exhaust.
Once the lifter pumps up, the problem goes away. (This does not explain the
hot + high gassy smell, however)

3. it's one of the oxygen sensors? An oxygen sensor malfunction might not
trigger a CEL?
But a malfunction could lead to rich running problems, explaining the super
rich running at cold start.
Also, (so I've read) oxygen sensors are tied into the N80 (the valve which
pulls gas fumes from the tank / charcoal canister and burns them).
If one or both of the Oxygen sensors is bad, this could explain both
problems (ultra rich @ startup, and N80 not venting enough).

4. bad fuel injector - it gets stuck open when cold, dumping fuel into the
cylinder, but when very hot, leaks into the engine compartment?
(This seems unlikely to me...)

I like #3 because it explains both problems, but am not sold on any theory
at the moment, and some of my assumptions are likely wrong.
Re: Over heating red warning light flashing

 

I have the same problem in my 96. It started intermittent and now starts as soon as it¡¯s turned on. We replaced a lot of sensors but it continues.?

We didn¡¯t replace the sensor in the reservoir and replace it as Duane just mentioned but we did the rest.?
Re: Oxygen sensor, N80, gassy start and when hot & high?

 

On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 08:29 PM, FlashVan wrote:
when I opened the gas cap it began to ¡°boil¡± and gas actually spewed out of the filler tube
That's a common sign that the N-80 valve (or related tubing) isn't working.? The whole purpose of the valve is to allow the fumes to be sucked into the engine to be burned after the engine warms up.
--
Duane
05HD Rialta
220K Miles
Re: Over heating red warning light flashing

 

On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 08:28 PM, rhodney wrote:
Coolant warning light flashing but temp gauge indicates normal temperature.
I've only ever seen that when the coolant level was low.? In at least one case it was the sensor in the reservoir and the tank had to be replaced.
--
Duane
05HD Rialta
220K Miles
Re: Oxygen sensor, N80, gassy start and when hot & high?

FlashVan
 

I live at high altitude and have had the same issue. When I pulled into my garage the raw gas smell was horrible. I track it down to the gas cap at one point (not a fix, just some detective work) and when I opened the gas cap it began to ¡°boil¡± and gas actually spewed out of the filler tube. I¡¯m going to start by rebuilding the vapor recovery system and see what happens. Wish me luck!

Brent Erdmann

On Feb 7, 2023, at 5:32 PM, Michael Diehr <md03@...> wrote:

?My 2000 EVC has over 100k miles.

In the past few years I've noticed some symptoms, and I wonder if they could be connected:

* very gassy / rich smelling exhaust at startup - not "evacuate the neighborhood" bad but "air out the garage for a while" bad. Definitely coming from the exhaust pipe only.
* after the van warms up, this stops, and subsequent warm starts don't have this problem
* sometimes, a "tick tick tick" noise upon cold start, especially if the van hasn't been driven in weeks. This usually goes away in minutes as the van warms up, and often doesn't come back for days.
* when it's very hot and/or at high altitude, gas fumes - these are not coming from the exhaust, but possibly from the EVAP system hoses around the gas tank or maybe from engine compartment?
* sometimes the tank "gurgles" after filling, and this happens even after I rehabilitated and later replaced my EVAP canister

On the positive side:
* R&R evap canister
* new gas cap
* new N80 valve
* all new plugs, wires, and coil packs (which fixed some misfires, but did not change these other symptoms)
* no codes
* MPG is expected
* passes smog

Basically, if you only encountered this van after it had warmed up, and never took it to the high desert, you would think it was running perfectly.

I have a few ideas - some of these are my own, and some distilled from prior posts on the list:

1. this is all normal, the van always runs in "open circuit" mode at startup, which runs rich, and I'm not remembering how gassy older vehicles are (I do live in California and my other car is an EV).
And, the other gassy smell when hot & high is due to extreme driving conditions (110F, high altitude) and just a flaw with Eurovans.

2. the "tick tick" noise sounds like a hydraulic valve lifter that lost pressure, which could cause incomplete combustion leading to the gassy exhaust.
Once the lifter pumps up, the problem goes away. (This does not explain the hot + high gassy smell, however)

3. it's one of the oxygen sensors? An oxygen sensor malfunction might not trigger a CEL?
But a malfunction could lead to rich running problems, explaining the super rich running at cold start.
Also, (so I've read) oxygen sensors are tied into the N80 (the valve which pulls gas fumes from the tank / charcoal canister and burns them).
If one or both of the Oxygen sensors is bad, this could explain both problems (ultra rich @ startup, and N80 not venting enough).

4. bad fuel injector - it gets stuck open when cold, dumping fuel into the cylinder, but when very hot, leaks into the engine compartment?
(This seems unlikely to me...)

I like #3 because it explains both problems, but am not sold on any theory at the moment, and some of my assumptions are likely wrong.
Re: EVC Furnace Upgrade

 

Please do, would be interested to hear how that works out
Le 16 f¨¦vr. 2023, 18:43 +0100, Christopher Volk <christopherbvolk@...>, a ¨¦crit :

Thanks, Jim. I¡¯ve got an email into Suburban to see if I can slip a new, updated core into the furnace cabinet. Seems promising. ?Stay tuned¡ªI¡¯ll let y¡¯all know how this works out.

On Feb 16, 2023, at 1:56 AM, jim stewart <js@...> wrote:

I haven¡¯t done it but I did look into it a little.??The Propex ones are a completely different shape and getting them to fit looked complex to me.??The reason to go propex of course is that if your in Europe they are easy to come by.??I have seen people upgrade the suburbans to a later suburban and they are said to be a lot quieter.??They are a like for like bolt in replacement as I understand.??The problem is that they don¡¯t exist in Europe, to import one is hugely expensive.??I have looked at it and done nothing as I didn¡¯t find any viable options.
On 16 Feb 2023, 04:54 +0100, christopherbvolk@..., wrote:
Hi folks

We have a '97 Eurovan Camper with the original furnace. ?I believe it's a Suburban unit, although I don't know which model, etc. ?I've learned that these can be upgraded with a new, more efficient and quieter core. Alternatively, I'm looking at a unit called the ProPex HS 2000, which gets good reviews.

Has anyone had experience with upgrading their EVC furnace and would like to share any advice?

Christopher B. Volk
Boise, Idaho
Re: EVC Furnace Upgrade

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Nope. Updated furnace cores won¡¯t fit in the NT-12 cabinet, according to Suburban. Seeking to replace the NT-12 with a new NT-16 SEQ¡­if I can find one¡­

On Feb 16, 2023, at 9:25 AM, Christopher Volk via <christopherbvolk@...> wrote:

Thanks, Jim. I¡¯ve got an email into Suburban to see if I can slip a new, updated core into the furnace cabinet. Seems promising. ?Stay tuned¡ªI¡¯ll let y¡¯all know how this works out.

On Feb 16, 2023, at 1:56 AM, jim stewart <js@...> wrote:

I haven¡¯t done it but I did look into it a little.??The Propex ones are a completely different shape and getting them to fit looked complex to me.??The reason to go propex of course is that if your in Europe they are easy to come by.??I have seen people upgrade the suburbans to a later suburban and they are said to be a lot quieter.??They are a like for like bolt in replacement as I understand.??The problem is that they don¡¯t exist in Europe, to import one is hugely expensive.??I have looked at it and done nothing as I didn¡¯t find any viable options.
On 16 Feb 2023, 04:54 +0100,?christopherbvolk@..., wrote:
Hi folks

We have a '97 Eurovan Camper with the original furnace. ?I believe it's a Suburban unit, although I don't know which model, etc. ?I've learned that these can be upgraded with a new, more efficient and quieter core. Alternatively, I'm looking at a unit called the ProPex HS 2000, which gets good reviews.

Has anyone had experience with upgrading their EVC furnace and would like to share any advice?

Christopher B. Volk
Boise, Idaho




Christopher B. Volk
Boise, Idaho
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