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Re: Belly pan
Donald
I was not thinking so much about the fans as I was about the coolant
temps being lower. Look at it this way: If you have all other things equal (engine speed, ground/air speed, grade of road) more air thru the radiator will give you lower coolant temps. I don't have my book with me right now but there are two temp ranges here: Fan switch & thermostat setting. Its clear that no matter what the ground/air speed the fan will come on when the coolant gets hot enough. But there is a gap between when the thermostat is fully open and when the fans come on. All other things being equal it would be better to operate in the range when the thermostat is just coming into full open then running just under the fan temp switch point. |
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Re: 93 EV-High mileage potential?
I'm a believer. If I were any where near that 93 in El Paso that
Madeline mentions (see message above re: ebay auction), I'd jump on it. For $4,000, you'll find a lot of good, used 93's around. If I can find one on the east coast for that, under 100K, I'm there. Scott MD/DC |
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Re: 93 EV-High mileage potential?
It may be possible that the early demise of the EV 5cyl is related to the
failure of cooling system fans or coolant leaks. These seem to be weak points with the '92 - '95 EVs. If you don't keep ahead of the fan resistors, temp sensors and relays, and the T fittings and coolant hoses, you could have overheating problems that could easily destroy the engines. I have had very good luck with my '93 which is now pushing 160K. I just replaced the blower motor this past weekend, and the T fitting on the block for the second time. Steve Lashley SKL Enterprises Inc. 636-797-9015 636-789-2127 fax |
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Re: Overheating - HELP !! FIXED
James 'JC' Gochoco
Jerry,
Thank for your response, Last Saturday, when I went to my mechanic he had checked the coolant level. I did not metion on my prior email that the he Flushed the Radiator and replaced with a new coolant. He checked also temp by using a Laser gun and gives the reading. The reading from the Laser Gun is much lower what we are getting from the Dashboard. So, they thought it was the timing. They have adjusted the timing and the Temp on the Dash went down. But as soon I came close to my house, I found out that the temp went up again. So I waited. Then I found the air filter housing was not properly secured. As of this time the temp reading on my dashboard is 190 to 200 deg. which is good. I was thinking probably there is no proper circulation of AIR? The funny thing is that when the temp is high -230 deg. I tried to removed the sensor from the coolant and still gives the same reading. What I am thinking also is that the cluster assembly but I have replaced this last year. I also have a feeling that I am not out of the woods yet. I will inform you once there's some changes on my reading in the future. Thanks, JC --- sanae@... wrote: JC,
===== James Gochoco Analyst / Programmer Eurovan GL 93 Toyota Landcrusier 1999 __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information |
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Re: 93 EV-High mileage potential?
--- In ev_update@y..., lars@b... wrote:
--- In ev_update@y..., "Vance, Beaumont W." <Beaumont.Vance@v...>to theyAudiwill run 300k easily. He said that it is easy to find used Audi 5cylinderengines because they outlast the auto body.I know I'm replying to an old message but...I was told that the 2.5L is a truck motor used in Europe. Is this motor easily foundin North American wrecking yards? If so, what vehicles had it?The 2.5 does not exist in North American yards, period. Which brings up the fact I have an Audi 100 2.3 stuffed in my '93. It works but was a PITA to install, and is the only of the Audi 5's that can even vaguely fit. As to longetivity, this is concerning to me. The old Audi engines easily went 250k miles then with a head touch up another 100k. BUT I bought my '93 having eaten #3 exhaust after a head rebuild for low compression (one of the replaced valves broke off so...) Since that time I've seen 2 others in yards sporting heads removed, all of these right around 120-140k miles. Saw one just the other day in the auto trader with factory new engine at 125k. This is unheard of for previous 5 cylinders even shoddily maintained. The head and tall block are unique to this vehicle as well and as I've mentioned ludicrously rare in the US. My quandary is that good friends have been wanting me to find them a Vanagon and I've been thinging EV instead but in the price range they want to pay ($5k ish) there are good deals on nice clean vans but all are in the 95-105k range. I don't want to rec something that is going to need at least a head, or engine in 1 year. Any opinions folks? John jander14@... |
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Re: VW MV Campers, Which Years?
Mine is from Canada -1992, short wheelbase Westy with all the cabinetry,
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stove and fridge. -----Original Message-----
From: rkbowman@... [mailto:rkbowman@...] Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 5:38 AM To: ev_update@... Subject: [ev_update] Re: VW MV Campers, Which Years? You're right. And Westfalia continues to be make and sell Eurovan campers in Europe. Ron and was not a US model. It is a short wheelbase van and had the samepop- top as the Weekender, but did have the cabinetry and cooking stuff,as well as a furnace. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to |
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Re: Hitch carriers
John Waterman
Hi Gary,
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When I am flying, I take gross weight very seriously. On the ground however, I am somewhat less concerned. I would be highly surprised if at least 50% margin wasn't built into this number by the engineers. John gself@... wrote:
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Re: heater hose-MV5
Michael G. McCarthy
You bleed the system as the very last step in any procedure involving
replacing cooling system components. You can use the little screw on the high firewall hose -- careful, it's delicate -- or you can run-the engine-then-top-off-the-overflow-tank numerous times. Either way you need to get air OUT of the system to prevent air pockets forming through which coolant will not circulate, and if coolant doesn't circulate it can't carry heat to the radiators (there are three) where fans can transfer heat to the air, thereby cooling the coolant. ---------- From: mochalleng@... To: ev_update@... Subject: Re: [ev_update] Re: heater hose-MV5 Date: Tue, Sep 18, 2001, 9:47 AM So do I need to bleed it then I replace the hose? I've had a multitude of coolant problems in the last year, and I don't want to make things any worse. Mike In a message dated 9/18/2001 6:56:11 AM Central Daylight Time, bleggis4@... writes: That's exactly what the button does. I replaced my heater hose last Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <> . |
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Re: Hitch carriers
Are you worried about exceeding the GVW. Ours EVC2000 only has about
800+ pounds additional capacity from that you have to subtract our weight (no small number), the dog's weight (45 lbs), weight of water and supplies. I think some additional items must also be included. It does not seem like there is much excess carrying capacity. I guess for light, bulky items it would work well. I think the next time we are fully loaded for a trip I'll run thru a public scale to see how much extra we can carry. . . . Gary of Grass Valley |
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Re: Posting Photos
John Waterman
Madeleine,
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If you try to access that, you get a message that says "Please post photos in the file section". John Madeleine Dewar wrote:
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Re: Hitch carriers
John Waterman
Hi Madeleine,
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Yup, most of the more severe problems are down in that part of the country. There were some news articles from LaVeta (west of Walsenburg, jut before LaVeta Pass) where there was concern about the residents shooting and harrasing the bears. Basically, they were just getting fed up with them eating their gardens and otherwise making a nuisance of themselves. LaVeta probably has a population of 2 to 3 hundred people and supposedly somewhere around 30 bears were making it into town. We have even had a few in Denver. John Madeleine Dewar wrote:
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Re: VW MV Campers, Which Years?
You're right. And Westfalia continues to be make and sell Eurovan
campers in Europe. Ron and was not a US model. It is a short wheelbase van and had the samepop- top as the Weekender, but did have the cabinetry and cooking stuff,as well as a furnace. |
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Re: Hitch carriers
John Waterman
Hi David,
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Glad it is working out for you. We seriously considered buying one of the Hermans. My concern was storing it, backing it (although it handles very nicely and, most importantly, the addition of an extra axle. Ann and I travel a lot in Mexico and the toll roads, while delightful to drive on, are horrendously expensive. The second axle doubles them. As far as volume, I suspect the triple play will carry 1/4 to 1/3 as much as the Herman. John David Palmerston wrote:
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More dealer fun
Az Barber
Went in for the 10k service yesterday. For some strange reason, the van has
developed some small cracks in the plastic lens over the gauges. There's been a slight problem with the floor in the rear passenger compartment bowing up slightly, so I pointed that out as well. They told me they'd look at it. I get the van back, and the service writer tells me that they've ordered a new plastic lens and they'll call me when it's in. The floor, I was told, does that when the rear facing seat on the passenger side is removed. Well, this is obviously bullshit, as you other MV owners know. The seat rests on two pins in the metal under the carpeting. It rests none of it's weight on the carpeted part of the floor at all. But hey, give the mechanic a break, he's probably never even seen that seat in a van since most people take them out and rarely use them. So I went home to install the seat, so I could go back and show them and I notice that my front wheels have a lot more brake dust than the rear wheels. Well, that's typical, but the 10k mile service is supposed to include a tire rotation! I call the mechanic back up and I'm prepared to give him hell for trying to sneak one past me, (and oddly enough, looking forward to being angry... I think it may have to do with the stress of recent events) and he completely catches me off guard by admitting that he made a mistake and forgot to do it. Not only that, he dropped what he was doing and did it right then. Now, I know he should have done it right to begin with, but you gotta give him a couple points for fessing up to his mistake and fixing it as fast as possible. He was also very apologetic, so I went easy on him. I forgot all about the floor thing too... I guess I'll bring it up to them next time. I hope all you folks had fun at BBTB! Az -- AH#56 |
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Re: VW MV Campers, Which Years?
Ned Rothstein
--- In ev_update@y..., rkbowman@u... wrote:
Winnebago makes the Camper, Westfalia makes the Weekender. Ron- There was a westfalia camper as well. It was the Eurovan CV and was not a US model. It is a short wheelbase van and had the same pop- top as the Weekender, but did have the cabinetry and cooking stuff, as well as a furnace. NED 93 Weekender |
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Re: Belly pan
Michael G. McCarthy
That scoop directs air over the exhaust header, which has no water jacket
cooled by a fan. In that case, aerodynamics matter, and the scoop is critical. If you were arguing that removing the belly pan reduces airflow through that scoop, you might have a point, but that's not the argument you are making. Rather, you are arguing that the belly pan is aerodynamically designed to better evacuate air from behind the radiator itself, thereby increasing the efficiency of the cooling system. OK, say that's true. What's the effect of not having the pan? Only one thing......the FANS would have to run longer to compensate for the missing aerodynamic benefit of the pans. Again, unless the fans alone were not up to the job of cooling the radiator sans the aero effects, the pan is irrelevant to anything but fan motor life. You bring up a good point about the exhaust header scoop because there's an example of a device that helps directly cools a part itself -- ie, the header -- by directing cooling airflow RIGHT AT the part. Similarly, with later model EV's, there are scoops that direct air at brakes and directly cool them too. Don't mess with that stuff. But the engine itself is cooled by a water jacket, not airflow. The engine doesn't care about airflow like brakes and headers care. The engine only cares that its water jacket get cooled. The water jacket is cooled by big electric fans that are either adequate by themselves or require ram effects induced by grill design and belly pans. An EV's fans are plenty adequate to cool the water jacket, and the direct evidence of that is they cycle off without the pan installed, and of course my engine's operating temperatures are normal. ---------- From: sanae@... To: ev_update@... Subject: [ev_update] Re: Belly pan Date: Mon, Sep 17, 2001, 9:26 PM Mike, I think Joseph is "correct" in that the pan plays an integral part in managing the air flow. If you look closely at the underside of the hood (at least for the 93 model) you will note a scope in the middle of the hood that directs air past the top of engine so it can run down the backside of the head/block to carry away heat from the exhaust manifold out the bottom of the EV. In a similar fashion, the belly pan seals large portions of space below so as to direct air flow in a specific manner. The air that runs through the radiator has to have a place to go, or you lose cooling efficiency because there is reduced air flow through the radiator. It would not surprise me if they tweaked the pan design to; 1. help cooling (by having the flow below create a vacuum under the engine to "suck" the cooler air from the scoop down the backside), and/or better manage air flow under the EV for better aerodynamics... My 2 cents Jerry --- In ev_update@y..., "Michael G. McCarthy" <mgmccarthy@c...> wrote: The EV pan does not direct air toward cooling and as such is notlike the Renault in this regard. The radiators are entirely in front andabove the bumper, where their air supply is controlled by the motion of thevehicle and by thermostatic fans. Even if the "efficiency" of the systemsuffered (and it doesn't) at worst all that would happen is the fans wouldrun more often, and potentially wear out sooner. There would be no longterm damage to the engine in any case.because those things don't then have to be tucked out of harm's way.Hoses, wiring harnesses, fittings, bolt-on components, etc can all be placedwherever they are placed without any regard to exposure to the elements, andthat's a much cheaper/easier thing to engineer. Also, the pan contributes tonoise control so it has its own inherent little benefit. On thedownside, the pan clearly makes maintenance more difficult as it must often beremoved for many different procedures.technician for VW. I use to work on Renault vehicles and was factory trained. Wewere told the pan on Renault vehicles directs the air through theradiator and across the engine for more efficiant cooling. Removing it couldcause long term harm. If it was not necessary, why would the factory addthe expense? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <> . |
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Re: heater hose-MV5
Hi Mike -
That's exactly what the button does. I replaced my heater hose last month along with a couple others. After eight years it, too, was leaking. FYI - a decent temporary fix, until you can arrange a new one, is good old duct or electrician's tape. Just wrap it up tight. Steve Scott 93 GL |
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Re: Belly pan
Michael G. McCarthy
But is this really going to make a difference? Maybe.And if it does "make a difference" then that difference will simply be that the electric fans will run more often. It's not going to "make a difference" in terms of operating temperatures, and the implicit affect on engine life. If it were true that the fans on our EVs were marginal (and they surely are not), and engine cooling therefore required the added ram effects of a belly pan designed to assist the fans, then your speculation that temps would be higher without the pan would be true. In that case, absent the pan, the fans would be running at top speed, the thermostat fully open, and the engine suffering at higher temps absent the ram effects of the pan, but that is not the case. I don't have a pan, and my fans cycle on and off just as they did with the pan installed. My A/C blows very cold, and my fans very rarely hit the highest speed. My engine operating temperature -- which is the only thing that matters to the engine -- is no different. Heat dissipation in our EV is controlled by sensors and fans, and if there is any collateral effect from aerodynamics it's very marginal, and its only effect would be to reduce the frequency/duration of the cycling of the electric fans. At this point we are discussing potential relative fan motor life, not engine life, which is oblivious to how often the fans cycle. ---------- From: "Donald " <gibbonsnc@...> To: ev_update@... Subject: [ev_update] Re: Belly pan Date: Mon, Sep 17, 2001, 9:24 PM Its not so much the air flow it low or idle speeds, its air flow at high speeds that the belly pan does its job. Any car that moves thru the air will develope an high pressure directly in front of it. If you stick the raditor right there at the high pressure area you have only done 1/2 the job. In order for there to air flow there has to be a high pressure and a low pressure area. The air will rush from high to low. And thats what the belly pan does, creates a low pressure area in the engine compartment. By not allowing the air flow to shoot up right at the area just under the bumper and by delaying the exit of the air till around where the front axle center line is you maintain low pressure in the engine compartment. But is this really going to make a difference? Maybe. When the thermostat gets fully open any additional air flow will make lower coolant temps. With the belly pan in place there will be better air flow. I was going to try an experiment to prove this with 2 belly pans, one is intact and the other has a hole that someone added to try and get better cooling. But one pan is from an automatic and the other is from a manual... They will not fit interchangably... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <> . |
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Re: Dust/Pollen Filter
Tom Wilds
$39.50 for a 2000 EVC pollen filter in SC. You would think they could design
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the housing to use a stock filter. ----- Original Message -----
From: <r.w.cox@...> To: <ev_update@...> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 5:18 PM Subject: [ev_update] Re: Dust/Pollen Filter --- In ev_update@y..., "catzzman" <catzz@a...> wrote:a '97 EVC? |
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