Dave,
what wiring did your machine have? Mine is the 'Safety Electric' wiring. I'm still trying to understand it. I'm a physicist, this stuff is not totally alien to me, I just don't quite understand little boxes that say 'low voltage release'. Trying to understand items like c1 with terminals a/b and 13/14

If I wire the motor directly to the VFD, this whole circuit won't be working, right? Since I won't have high voltage on it? My VFD wants a low volt. signal though passed through an EMO switch... I am not piecing it all together. I know I can get the functionality, I know I can jumper that signal at the VFD side. Need to stare at it more I guess

--
Regards,
Rich
================================
Richard Kleinhenz


================================

Yup, same thing - Rockwell Automation calls them 'snubber resistors' - just there to bleed off the emf generated by the decelerating rotor. Sounds like a good idea to use :-)

On 4/8/2006 at 7:19 PM davedamouth wrote:

--- In emcoV10lathe@..., Richard Kleinhenz <richk@...> wrote:
Not sure on the terminology your manual is using. All but the very
cheapest vfd's can usually use a braking resistor. It's a large
resistor that will attach to an extra set of terminals. Allows for
much faster deceleration than just the drive transistors. At 30 rpm,
a 1/2 second braking ramp will stop the spindle in 1/4 revolution.

I use them wherever possible. If something is going wrong, I want the
spindle to stop quickly. Even changing the work in and out of the
chuck goes quicker when you don't need to wait for it to stop.

--
Regards,
Rich
================================
Richard Kleinhenz


================================

--- In emcoV10lathe@..., Richard Kleinhenz <richk@...> wrote:

Are you using what's referred to as a 'snubber resistor' in my VFD

manual? Had you tried without that and found you needed it, or is it
something that is just generally recommended and should always be used?

Not sure on the terminology your manual is using. All but the very
cheapest vfd's can usually use a braking resistor. It's a large
resistor that will attach to an extra set of terminals. Allows for
much faster deceleration than just the drive transistors. At 30 rpm,
a 1/2 second braking ramp will stop the spindle in 1/4 revolution.

I use them wherever possible. If something is going wrong, I want the
spindle to stop quickly. Even changing the work in and out of the
chuck goes quicker when you don't need to wait for it to stop.

Thanks, Dave, seems like the right thoughts went through my head, and I have a fairly reasonable understanding of the issues and functionality. I fully realize that with the low-low speed thought using a wired-up potentiometer I lose a lot of power. I figured this would allow me to stop on a dime when cutting a thread against a shoulder. I am not too worried about power there. But 27 RPM is pretty slow, maybe it's not an issue.

Are you using what's referred to as a 'snubber resistor' in my VFD manual? Had you tried without that and found you needed it, or is it something that is just generally recommended and should always be used?

--
Regards,
Rich
================================
Richard Kleinhenz


================================

--- In emcoV10lathe@..., Richard Kleinhenz <richk@...> wrote:

Simplest thing would be to wire the VFD output into the S11 input.

The negatives would be that fast switching off and on may reset the
VFD. Let's say I try not to do that. But when I switch from off to
speed 1 and then speed 2 don't I do exactly that, as far as the VFD is
concerned? Don't know whether the rotary switch B1 is make before
break or what.

Your VFD is not going to like that. Each speed seting on the motor has
a different amp draw, and different speed. There may be a wiring
diagram inside the cover of the elecrical box that will help.

The advantage would be that I can wire up a potentiometer for

external speed control to the VFD to be able to go down to nearly
zero. Max would be 60 Hz.

Really low hz are not a good idea. HP falls off linearly below 60 hz.
If 60 hz is 1.5 hp, 30 hz = .75 hp. Above 60 hz, hp remains fairly
flat, so 100 hz = 1.5 hp.

If I wire up as shown in the posted diagram, the logic goes back to

the VFD and presumably there are no switching issues. But with my VFD
at least I lose the capability to control the speed via a
potentiometer. The downside is that I don't know if the motor is
rated for 120Hz for extended times.

Seems to work fine. As you've noted, you won't use 2000 rpm very
often. The motor was designed to run 3400 rpm, which is all it is
turning. With the stock wiring, 3400 rpm is speed 2, 1700 is speed 1.

I understand that this wiring uses all poles and has more torque at

high speed rather than use only every other pole for high speed with
the original wiring. Don't know whether torque at high speed really
is an issue of course - I doubt it.

The wiring suggested actually uses only the 1700 rpm circuit, and lets
the vfd overspeed the 1700 rpm circuit to 3400. The purpose for using
the low speed circuit is to provide the best power across all
settings. The low speed circuit does provide more torque, but as the
frequency is increased beyond 60 hz, the vfd auomatically reduces the
torque. So there is no net gain in high speed torque.

However, if you were to use the 3400 rpm circuit, you would have
slightly more power at 3400 rpm. 3400 rpm would be 60 hz, so o
achieve 1700 rpm you would dial it down to 30 hz. At 30 hz, you would
have 50% of your original power.

I have to say I don't fully understand the rationale for the 2nd

speed, or how it is used in general. It seems to really give 1
distinct extra speed, 2200 RPM. Do you normally turn on speed1 (elec.
switch) and is speed2 just there for a finishing cut or polishing for
the convenience of not having to switch gears? And the 2200 would
have the highest startup current draw of course, probably the worst
thing for a VFD, switching quickly through speed1 to speed2.

Doesn't seem to mind. I'm using a braking resisor, so if you move
slow enough, it almost stops from speed 1 turning off before speed 2
starts. Still works just fine.

Another option you may want to try: Put the stock switch in speed 1.
Pull the switch handle off so you're not tempted to use it. Then
mount your vfd externally and run it like you want. The two items of
concern that I worry about:
1. If you ever accidentally get the barrel switch into speed 2, you
risk trying to turn the motor 6800rpm. This would be bad.
2. The little buttons on the VFD are a very small target to be
searching for when the machine is making thunk-thunk noises as it
tries to destroy itself, your work, or you. I always prefer external
switching on a VFD. At a minimum, find a way to put an E-Stop switch
wihin easy reach.

Good Luck!
Dave

开云体育

OK here is another data point.

I have a V10P and a Super-11.

The milling column attachment bolts appear
to be the same; same size and same spacing.

Both machines are "green" vintage.

-Almus

开云体育

开云体育

开云体育

开云体育

Sorry I should have been clearer. Yes, does the bracket mount directly w/o redrilling, and is the column diameter the same. Also whether the column to lathe distance is the same, which would be a function of the bracket.

On 4/4/2006 at 11:24 AM almus_kenter wrote:

--- In emcoV10lathe@..., Richard Kleinhenz <richk@...> wrote:

Does anyone know whether the V10 milling column and head will fit

the Super 11?

--

Do you want to know if the bolt spacing is the same on
the lathe bed? ie the bolts that hold the mill to the lathe
bed?

--
Regards,
Rich
================================
Richard Kleinhenz


================================

--- In emcoV10lathe@..., Richard Kleinhenz <richk@...> wrote:

Does anyone know whether the V10 milling column and head will fit

the Super 11?

--

Do you want to know if the bolt spacing is the same on
the lathe bed? ie the bolts that hold the mill to the lathe
bed?

-A

开云体育

I'd try to make something like this work:



The inside bore needs to be enlarged and have a keyway broached or
filed, and with a little luck there is enough on the o.d. of the hub
to be able to turn it to fit the dial.



--- In emcoV10lathe@..., Richard Kleinhenz <richk@...> wrote:

I broke the handwheel on my new (used) S11 tailstock by dropping

it... Does anyone know about a generic replacement, or where would I
get it - does BlueRidge stock parts, or will they get them, or do I go
to Enco - here in the US or in Austria?

I meant EMco not ENco of course :-)

--
Regards,
Rich
================================
Richard Kleinhenz


================================

开云体育

Some time ago the barrel switch became hard to turn with artharitic
hands. I replaced it with 5 contactors. Now I have a 4 position easy to
turn direction and speed switch. Controll is with a start and a stop
push button-- much easier.
I had a 1hp. DC motor on my previous lathe. I kept the motor planning
to install it on the S11. It will take some inginuity to fit it on the
motor mount. I really do miss the DC drive. So nice when threading to a
sholder.Where did you get the varispeed AC drive? Sounds as tho it
might be as good (or better?) than the DC.
Dick R.

--- In emcoV10lathe@..., "almus_kenter" <akenter@...> wrote:

Also....

Dave,

I was impressed that you got your VFD in to the lathe
electrical enclosure. Mine won't fit. I also have
a different electrical set up; no red E off switch

Actually I managed to get my VFD inside my electrical
enclosure. I ran the lathe and was able to cut metal!
Overall the machine runs very smooth

I may remake the rear cover for the electrical panel and
put a muffin fan on it; I am paranoid about summer time
cooling.

-A

Nice work Frank. Very inspiring!
I like the way that design is such that there are no dovetail cutters needed.
Thanks for the great pictures.

Dan