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Re: change gears
Frank Hasieber
开云体育That would be my guess; you got a DP (imperial) gear instead of Module. ? -----Original
Message----- ? Yes, 26 pitch is what is closest, but it's inconsistent with the rest.? Maybe the guy just sold me the wrong gear?
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Regards,
Rich
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Richard Kleinhenz
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Re: change gears
开云体育I'll call Emco next week.? This is too far off to be right.? All
the smaller gears are pretty close to module1, up to the 100.? Haven't
pulled the 120.
?
Yes, 26 pitch is what is closest, but it's inconsistent with the
rest.? Maybe the guy just sold me the wrong gear?
* REPLY SEPARATOR * On 5/6/2006 at 4:50 PM Frank Hasieber wrote:
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Regards,
Rich
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Richard Kleinhenz
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Re: change gears
Frank Hasieber
开云体育Ignore my last message, this one came in while I was working things out, only saw this one after sending the last one. The gears do appear to vary quite a bit from the theoretical! ? -----Original
Message----- I measured a few more, and the other gears are much closer - diameter within a 1/2 mm.? I think that can be expected.? So the 127 is a little off it seems.? Sorry for the fuzzy math in the other post - when I said 1.2 mm I meant 1.7 of course ;-) ? It's somewhat of a moot point.? I just paid over $70 for the 127T change gear from Emco.? Seems like I could have got a 127T module1 elsewhere and machined the center.? I can borrow broaches from the machineshop at work.? Even use their big arbor press...? I saw Grizzly
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Regards,
Rich
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Richard Kleinhenz
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Re: change gears
Frank Hasieber
开云体育That’s weird! The gears on both my V10 (1 module) and V13 (1.25 module) are all module. I‘m wondering if someone hasn’t used a DP gear as a substitute, after a few calculations a 26DP gear would have a theoretical OD of 4.9615” or 126mm this is possibly what you have, bearing in mind that with an uneven number of teeth you would not be able to accurately measure across the crests of 2 opposite teeth as I said it would not make sense for a manufacturer to use non standard gear cutters. I can’t think what else it could be. I’ve just been looking at a tool catalogue, which has a bunch of technical stuff, they have a table giving: Pitch mm ------ Module ------ DP ----- CP in the tables they show (ignoring all from 1 up to 50 module, which has a pitch of 157mm) a 0.95, 0.9, 0.85, 0.8 down to 0.3, from then on they go down in 0.02 steps, down to 0.1module! I did some measuring and checking the V13 gears, a 30t gear measures 39.8 0D, that gives 1.26 module, at 1.25 it should have an OD of 39.5, a 100t gear measures 127.3mm OD, gives 1.253 module, at 1.25 it should have an OD of 127mm. After looking at all the options I can think of yours looks closest to a 26DP gear, possible others might have other views. Regards, Frank. ? -----Original
Message----- Right, on a module1, the outer diameter should be teeth+2 in mm.? A 127 tooth gear should have a 129 mm diameter.? It is in fact 125.6 mm? That sounds too far off... ? On module1, 2 gears 20T and 80T should mesh properly if their axes are?50 mm apart.? A?1.2 mm error in radius is too much...? that's why I am wondering.? My initial?assumption was module1 also
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Regards,
Rich
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Richard Kleinhenz
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Re: change gears
开云体育I measured a few more, and the other gears are much closer - diameter
within a 1/2 mm.? I think that can be expected.? So the 127 is a
little off it seems.? Sorry for the fuzzy math in the other post - when I
said 1.2 mm I meant 1.7 of course ;-)
?
It's somewhat of a moot point.? I just paid over $70 for the 127T
change gear from Emco.? Seems like I could have got a 127T module1
elsewhere and machined the center.? I can borrow broaches from the
machineshop at work.? Even use their big arbor press...? I saw
Grizzly
* REPLY SEPARATOR * On 5/6/2006 at 9:02 AM Richard Kleinhenz wrote:
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Regards,
Rich
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Richard Kleinhenz
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Re: change gears
开云体育Right, on a module1, the outer diameter should be teeth+2 in mm.? A
127 tooth gear should have a 129 mm diameter.? It is in fact 125.6 mm?
That sounds too far off...
?
On module1, 2 gears 20T and 80T should mesh properly if their axes
are?50 mm apart.? A?1.2 mm error in radius is too much...?
that's why I am wondering.? My initial?assumption was module1
also
* REPLY SEPARATOR * On 5/6/2006 at 11:08 AM Frank Hasieber wrote:
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Regards,
Rich
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Richard Kleinhenz
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Re: change gears
Frank Hasieber
开云体育Rich they are almost certainly 1 module, how did you check for the pitch? For 1 module the number of teeth is the same as the PCD of the gear in millimeters, which is less than the OD of the gear, which for a 100 tooth gear would be 102mm, in each case for 1 module the OD of the gear (the blank diameter) is the number of teeth + 2 in mm, i.e. 80 tooth = 82mm OD, it is highly unlikely that they have used a non standard or DP gear tooth size. Does this help? Frank. ? -----Original
Message----- From: emcoV10lathe@...
[mailto:emcoV10lathe@...]On
Behalf Of Richard Kleinhenz
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 3:18 AM To: Emco V10 group Subject: [emcoV10lathe] change gears ? Does anyone know the gear specification for the change gears?? I thought?they'd be module gears but apparently?they are?not.? They are close to module 1 but not quite.? (I am talking about S11 gears but I assume their other machines are the same) ? --
Regards,
Rich
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Richard Kleinhenz
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change gears
开云体育Does anyone know the gear specification for the change gears?? I
thought?they'd be module gears but apparently?they are?not.?
They are close to module 1 but not quite.? (I am talking about S11 gears
but I assume their other machines are the same)
?
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Regards,
Rich
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Richard Kleinhenz
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Re: cutting hard stuff
You used a mill? How did you hold the center?
My problem was I couldn't figure out how to hold it. Then I realized there is a flat section just after the 60 deg part, I grabbed that in a 3-jaw chuck, and used a revolving center in the tailstock to support the other end. Now I could turn the rear section of the taper into a cylinder of 1.3" which passes through the bore. I have a 4x6 band saw, I just could not see how I could how I could clean up the cut and make it look nice. * REPLY SEPARATOR * On 5/6/2006 at 12:38 AM davedamouth wrote: All of the unhardened centers that I have seen have a hardened tang.-- Regards, Rich ================================ Richard Kleinhenz ================================ |
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Re: cutting hard stuff
BTW the center is finished and fits nicely. A lot better than the Emco
version! But the question re. cutting hard material remains - any advice is appreciated. (Of course I'll also pull out some machining books I have for advice.) -- Regards, Rich ================================ Richard Kleinhenz ================================ |
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Re: cutting hard stuff
All of the unhardened centers that I have seen have a hardened tang.
Just the body is unhardened. I have an original Emco MT5 dead center and a MT5 to MT3 adapter that I milled down to fit. The Max diameter is 1.760", the minimum diameter is 1.662". Length is about 1.9". I would try to use a cutoff wheel or saw to completely remove the tang and get in the general vicinity of where you want to be. Should be much easier to mill then. My adapter was hardened, and I was taking .020" cuts at 250 rpm with a 1.5" carbide endmill. Feed rate was moderate. --- In emcoV10lathe@..., Richard Kleinhenz <richk@...> wrote: be hardened, but it's still VERY HARD! Any hints on cutting such hard stuff? It's probably just surface hardened. The striking end of the tang seems particularly hard enough to fit the S11 spindle and have it look a mess, I decided to just turn the tang down to about 1.3". Started with a sharp HSS bit but the steel just laughed at it and rubbed. So on to the carbide bit. When I started cutting, the chips went up in flames. I overcame that by taking a heavier cut. I had a speed of 420, diameter appr. 1.5", so about 154 sfm. -- |
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cutting hard stuff
开云体育I got a MT5 dead center, non-hardened, from Enco.? Well, it may not be
hardened, but it's still VERY HARD!? Any hints on cutting such hard
stuff?? It's probably just surface hardened.? The striking end of the
tang seems particularly hard
?
The center of course is too long.? Rather than try to hack it short
enough to fit the S11 spindle and have it look a mess, I decided to just turn
the tang down to about 1.3".? Started with a sharp HSS bit but the steel
just laughed at it and rubbed.? So on to the carbide bit.? When I
started cutting, the chips went up in flames.? I overcame that by taking a
heavier cut.? I had a speed of 420, diameter appr. 1.5", so about 154
sfm.
?
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Regards,
Rich
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Richard Kleinhenz
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Re: alignment
开云体育Yeah, that makes?sense
?
Well if for some reason they can't find the test bar or it's too long I
order some 1 1/4" drill rod.?
* REPLY SEPARATOR * On 5/4/2006 at 11:08 PM Frank Hasieber wrote:
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Regards,
Rich
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Richard Kleinhenz
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Re: alignment
Frank Hasieber
开云体育The way I see this is the diameter is within 0.001, Concentricity I would think is the variation in the radius from the central/mean axis, you could for instance have a constant diameter but where the radius is varying from a plus to a minus value at the same section, like a circular/eccentric cam. OK shoot me down J Drill rod is generally centerless ground. Frank. ? -----Original
Message----- Drill rod seems to have a 'section tolerance' of +/- .001".? Concentricity of .0005". ? I presume section tolerance means diameter control.?But what exactly is 'concentricity' in this context?
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Regards,
Rich
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Richard Kleinhenz
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Re: alignment
开云体育60 quit!? Ouch!? Before shipping to the US...
?
Turns out I'm lucky.? Was chatting with one of the machinists at work,
and he'll find their test bar tomorrow.? It's a generic test bar with 2
centers.? Hope it's less than 2'!
On 5/4/2006 at 4:08 PM Bob Zawarski
wrote:
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Regards,
Rich
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Richard Kleinhenz
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Re: alignment
开云体育Drill rod seems to have a 'section tolerance' of +/- .001".?
Concentricity of .0005".
?
I presume section tolerance means diameter control.?But what exactly
is 'concentricity' in this context?
* REPLY SEPARATOR * On 5/4/2006 at 8:44 PM Frank Hasieber wrote:
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Regards,
Rich
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Richard Kleinhenz
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Re: alignment
开云体育chronos? ()? has test bars in
1,2,3,4 and 5 available
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Re: alignment
Frank Hasieber
开云体育Rich, the drill rod I get over here is very precise both for diameter and straightness, but probably not quite up to test bar standards. Frank. ? -----Original
Message----- From: emcoV10lathe@...
[mailto:emcoV10lathe@...]On
Behalf Of Richard Kleinhenz
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 7:48 PM To: Emco V10 group Subject: Re: [emcoV10lathe] Re: alignment ? Actually in
thinking more about it...? if the lathe axis were misoriented in a
vertical plane this could lead to hourglass.? But that would have to be
severe!? I need to do some more careful measurements.? I am just
ordering a length of 1 1/4" drill rod to make an alignment bar out of. |
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Re: alignment
Actually in thinking more about it... if the lathe axis were misoriented in a vertical plane this could lead to hourglass. But that would have to be severe! I need to do some more careful measurements. I am just ordering a length of 1 1/4" drill rod to make an alignment bar out of.
What makes a precise alignment bar? I think drillrod holds a pretty good diameter but is not necessarily straight, is that right? On 5/4/2006 at 5:27 PM almus_kenter wrote: --- In emcoV10lathe@..., Richard Kleinhenz <richk@...>-- Regards, Rich ================================ Richard Kleinhenz ================================ |
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Re: alignment
almus_kenter
--- In emcoV10lathe@..., Richard Kleinhenz <richk@...>
What would be the primary cause of turning hourglass?I am not sure what would cause hour-glass. It seems to be a "higher order aberation" (sorry couldn't resist the physics jargon) I would worry that it is some distortion or wear in the bed/ways. Of course if you had a precise alignment bar, you should see that the carriage is following a "bowed" path as it moves along the x-axis. Is it bowing in where one would expect the maximum amount of bed wear? Was the machine used in a production environment where thousands of operations were performed in the same spot? -Almus |