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Hello everyone,?
Alex from SV Frolic here, with some technical questions as I’m trying to build a system. My boat is a 1973 Columbia 30 (not the sport sailer with an open transom, but rather the raised deck one). I’m wanting to do a 48v battery system totaling around 400Ah, and convert to electric. Herein lies the issue:
my boat was originally sold with a gas motor, a Palmer P-60, mated to a v-drive transmission.?
I haven’t found much information as to the conversion process to electric for v-drives. And I’ve heard many people say they are touchy, sensitive transmissions as well. I’ve seen plenty of reduction gear setups for direct drives, even electric outboard builds, but nothing for a v-drive.?
That’s issue number one.?
Furthermore, I’m not sure what size motor to go for as I’m replacing a 4.0L 60hp inline 4 gas motor with plenty of torque (well, probably back when it ran).?
the displacement of my boat is factory 6 tons but in practicality I’m finding it’s more like 7 tons, or about 14k lbs.?
I’m new to EV’s and mechanically handy, but I’m fed up of this rusty old gas guzzling hunk of junk that always needs SOMETHING else. I’m dying to get out of the marina and shipyard routine. I miss my sea time. Thanks for your help.?
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I replaced a diesel/v-drive? in a similar sized boat (33', 12,500 lbs).? I used a 12kW motor and built a 280AH 48V LiFePo4 battery.? Lots of details here:
The 12kW motor replaces a 23hp diesel.? I did not re-use the v-drive, I made my own reduction drive with a 3:1 belt drive.? It fits well in the space that the v-drive occupied.?
The performance of the 12kW motor is at least as good as the diesel (which was a very good match to the boat) and is significantly better at slow speeds.? The only deficit the electric system has compared the diesel is range.? I have 25 to 30 miles range at 5.5 knots Vs 110 miles with the diesel.? For my daysailing use this is not a problem.?? A 5kW genset would be able to power the boat t 6 knots continuously.?
Dan Pfeiffer
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On 2023-09-24 9:32 pm, Alex from Frolic wrote:
Hello everyone,?
Alex from SV Frolic here, with some technical questions as I’m trying to build a system. My boat is a 1973 Columbia 30 (not the sport sailer with an open transom, but rather the raised deck one). I’m wanting to do a 48v battery system totaling around 400Ah, and convert to electric. Herein lies the issue:
my boat was originally sold with a gas motor, a Palmer P-60, mated to a v-drive transmission.?
I haven’t found much information as to the conversion process to electric for v-drives. And I’ve heard many people say they are touchy, sensitive transmissions as well. I’ve seen plenty of reduction gear setups for direct drives, even electric outboard builds, but nothing for a v-drive.?
That’s issue number one.?
Furthermore, I’m not sure what size motor to go for as I’m replacing a 4.0L 60hp inline 4 gas motor with plenty of torque (well, probably back when it ran).?
the displacement of my boat is factory 6 tons but in practicality I’m finding it’s more like 7 tons, or about 14k lbs.?
I’m new to EV’s and mechanically handy, but I’m fed up of this rusty old gas guzzling hunk of junk that always needs SOMETHING else. I’m dying to get out of the marina and shipyard routine. I miss my sea time. Thanks for your help.?
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I'd also suggest you skip reusing the transmission.? The motor driver/controller should handle forward and reverse, as well as variable speed so the tranny is just more weight you could replace with storage.
On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 10:48:36 AM CDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
I replaced a diesel/v-drive? in a similar sized boat (33', 12,500 lbs).? I used a 12kW motor and built a 280AH 48V LiFePo4 battery.? Lots of details here:
The 12kW motor replaces a 23hp diesel.? I did not re-use the v-drive, I made my own reduction drive with a 3:1 belt drive.? It fits well in the space that the v-drive occupied.?
The performance of the 12kW motor is at least as good as the diesel (which was a very good match to the boat) and is significantly better at slow speeds.? The only deficit the electric system has compared the diesel is range.? I have 25 to 30 miles range at 5.5 knots Vs 110 miles with the diesel.? For my daysailing use this is not a problem.?? A 5kW genset would be able to power the boat t 6 knots continuously.?
Dan Pfeiffer
On 2023-09-24 9:32 pm, Alex from Frolic wrote:
Hello everyone,?
Alex from SV Frolic here, with some technical questions as I’m trying to build a system. My boat is a 1973 Columbia 30 (not the sport sailer with an open transom, but rather the raised deck one). I’m wanting to do a 48v battery system totaling around 400Ah, and convert to electric. Herein lies the issue:
my boat was originally sold with a gas motor, a Palmer P-60, mated to a v-drive transmission.?
I haven’t found much information as to the conversion process to electric for v-drives. And I’ve heard many people say they are touchy, sensitive transmissions as well. I’ve seen plenty of reduction gear setups for direct drives, even electric outboard builds, but nothing for a v-drive.?
That’s issue number one.?
Furthermore, I’m not sure what size motor to go for as I’m replacing a 4.0L 60hp inline 4 gas motor with plenty of torque (well, probably back when it ran).?
the displacement of my boat is factory 6 tons but in practicality I’m finding it’s more like 7 tons, or about 14k lbs.?
I’m new to EV’s and mechanically handy, but I’m fed up of this rusty old gas guzzling hunk of junk that always needs SOMETHING else. I’m dying to get out of the marina and shipyard routine. I miss my sea time. Thanks for your help.?
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Dave is correct, the transmission will no longer be needed.
I have a couple of small inverter generators I can run in parallel to get over 30 amps available and can then just plug in my 30-amp shore power seemlessly for hybrid power.? Seems to work well, though I have not used it much as I have not yet figured how to mount the generators on-board.
I used / for my full kit, including advice on sizing the motor.? They were great?
Get
I'd also suggest you skip reusing the transmission.? The motor driver/controller should handle forward and reverse, as well as variable speed so the tranny is just more weight you could replace with storage.
On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 10:48:36 AM CDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
I replaced a diesel/v-drive? in a similar sized boat (33', 12,500 lbs).? I used a 12kW motor and built a 280AH 48V LiFePo4 battery.? Lots of details here:
The 12kW motor replaces a 23hp diesel.? I did not re-use the v-drive, I made my own reduction drive with a 3:1 belt drive.? It fits well in the space that the v-drive occupied.?
The performance of the 12kW motor is at least as good as the diesel (which was a very good match to the boat) and is significantly better at slow speeds.? The only deficit the electric system has compared the diesel is range.? I have 25 to 30 miles range at 5.5 knots Vs 110 miles with the diesel.? For my daysailing use this is not a problem.?? A 5kW genset would be able to power the boat t 6 knots continuously.?
Dan Pfeiffer
On 2023-09-24 9:32 pm, Alex from Frolic wrote:
Hello everyone,?
Alex from SV Frolic here, with some technical questions as I’m trying to build a system. My boat is a 1973 Columbia 30 (not the sport sailer with an open transom, but rather the raised deck one). I’m wanting to do a 48v battery system totaling around 400Ah, and convert to electric. Herein lies the issue:
my boat was originally sold with a gas motor, a Palmer P-60, mated to a v-drive transmission.?
I haven’t found much information as to the conversion process to electric for v-drives. And I’ve heard many people say they are touchy, sensitive transmissions as well. I’ve seen plenty of reduction gear setups for direct drives, even electric outboard builds, but nothing for a v-drive.?
That’s issue number one.?
Furthermore, I’m not sure what size motor to go for as I’m replacing a 4.0L 60hp inline 4 gas motor with plenty of torque (well, probably back when it ran).?
the displacement of my boat is factory 6 tons but in practicality I’m finding it’s more like 7 tons, or about 14k lbs.?
I’m new to EV’s and mechanically handy, but I’m fed up of this rusty old gas guzzling hunk of junk that always needs SOMETHING else. I’m dying to get out of the marina and shipyard routine. I miss my sea time. Thanks for your help.?
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Hi guys, I have a 42’ 12 ton (overweight) 1990 Catana catamaran. I replaced one of the Volvo Penta 30+ year old 2000 series model 2003 motors when it broke an unobtainable crank. I ended up installing a Thunderstruck AC34. I had a new aluminum bracket made and mated the electric motor shaft directly to the input shaft ?of the Volvo 120 sail drive.
?We?currently have a 48 volt 200 amp hour Li battery bank which is sufficient for an hour or 3 at a time at pretty much full power (5+ knots) before we need to start getting power back into the system. This will get us in and out of marinas, docks, moorings etc with no issues. With our current generator charging ability we can run at about 3 + knot indefinitely or until out of diesel.?
I?made several missteps along the way but am now very pleased with to overall project result.
About all I would like yet to do is make a new shaft extension from the VP sail drive vertical shaft, a ?new plate for the sail drive front face, a new plate for new top plate for the new vertical shaft, ?a new bracket for the electric motor to allow it to be moved vertically and oriented to the new shaft. This would reduce some friction and allow use of the original motor throttle. Currently I have to use the electric motor in only one rotation and shift forward and reverse using the sail drive transmission.
? Huh, just thinking about it while writing this I now have a sail drive question I’ll need to research. Could I have a new shaft vertices shaft with a bevel gear made that would be the correct length to meet up with a new or use the existing horizontal input shaft allowing me to get rid of having to shift forward and reverse using the clutches and gears of the VP sail drive? Any thought would be appreciated.
Cheers, Ric
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It seems you want to mount the motor vertically with a connection to the vertical shaft of the stern drive, eliminating the gear box? This makes a lot of sense.?
I assume you still have a diesel in the other hull? If so, why not consider adding a 48vdc alternator to this motor?
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That is correct Reuben. The Starboard side has a new Beta 38 with a new sail drive which is working out very well. When I converted the old port VP sail drive I had not known the input had to be turned in only one direction due to the clutch setup. I think I could gain some efficiency in eliminating the clutches and being able to use the motor controller for forward and reverse. The system is currently working but eliminating the VP clutches might be a longer term advantage. I’m sorta kind looking for a junked VP sail drive to tear apart for experimenting.
cheers
Ric
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When I yanked my diesels out of my cat, I was planning on belting the electric motor to the shaft of the sail drive gearbox. After some thought, I pulled out the sail drives, glassed over the holes and installed straight shafts. But I also considered doing exactly what you’re thinking of - mounting the motors vertically and married to the shaft of the sail drives.?
you may wish to consider using pulleys and a belt to the vertical shaft? That way you can deal with whatever reduction ratio you need and make your life a lot simpler.?
my guess is you can pull the gear box off the sail drive. You’ll need to fabricate a plate with the shaft poking out over the top to contain oil. The motor can then be mounted forward of the drive, either inverted (preferable for access to the belt) or vertical.?
the shop manual for the drive should give you enough info to do the job?
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Ric,
Can you tell me about the process of mating the motor and saildrive in your current setup? Did you use all off the shelf adaptors?
I have a 120S I would like to add an electric motor to. I can see that I had not through the shifting issue, but first I Would like to know how you made that horizontal shat connection.
Thanks
Marcel
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This is the approach that I'm taking. I have dual ME-1616 motors and dual 120S saildrives. I plan on using 0.5in aluminum plate, reusing the existing spline welded to a new jackshaft that sits on bearings in an oil bath.
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I converted my 25HP Tohatsu outboard to electric just over 20 years ago. Since, I have been running with an original Briggs and Stratton Etek motor. The mount is fairly simple with a thin quarter or three eights inch thick aluminum plate on which is mounted 3 thick aluminum uprights maybe 2inch high each and on top of that a half inch aluminum plate that the motor is mounted to. ?The motor direct drives the spline shaft and there are no additional bearings. Initially I cast my own spline to 7 eighths inch diam. Shaft couplers by casting the spline part with JB weld…those would last 2 or 3 months before shredding… Later I learned that outboard driveshafts typically have identical splines on top and bottom.? And so, for 35 dollars I picked up a used lower unit spline bevel gear, then bringing that and a 7 eights diameter shaft coupler to a machinist I had the machinist grind down the gear to 7 eighths inch diam at one end, then inserted and epoxied the result into the 7 eights diam. Coupler.? Result has been solid for nearly 20 years and cost just 100 dollars total including the machining.? I was looking at at least 500 dollars to get a spline coupler machined, so this was a bargain. ? See pics at ? Myles ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Randy Cain
Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2023 6:54 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Advice for electric conversion ? This is the approach that I'm taking. I have dual ME-1616 motors and dual 120S saildrives. I plan on using 0.5in aluminum plate, reusing the existing spline welded to a new jackshaft that sits on bearings in an oil bath.
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Hi Marcel, I did this part back in early 2014 and am answering from memory. When I got the old motor out I found out the SD input shaft had a fairly well known issue of the splines being worn out. I got a new input shaft and gear and the machine shop boarded out a standard shaft coupling to go on the new shaft. I got a standard matching coupling for the AC 34 motor shaft. I also installed a “drive saver” flexible coupling between the ridged shaft couplings. I then took a ton of measurements ?and drew up an aluminum bracket with lots of possible adjustment ?that I could bolt to the original VP motor mounts. I had end plates made to bolt to the motor that had ears to drill and bolt to the large bracket. The motor mounts had some side to side movement and the motor end plate ears allowed fore, aft and vertical adjustment. I was able to align the two shaft couplings to within 2 thousandths which I figured with the drive saver in place was more than sufficient. This alignment did take almost a full day but I felt good about it when done. Since I’ve now got a couple hundred hours on it, it must be okay.
If I had it to do over again I would probably put a belt sheave on both shafts and make the mounting a bit easier. I would also figure out how to remove the clutches and reduction gearing inside the transmission and be able to use both forward and reverse directly from the electric motor.? Hope this helps. Cheers, Ric
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Okay, I've attached a pdf of my conversion from the 30+ year old really expensive parts Volvo Piece of iron to the Thunderstruck AC 34 for your?entertainment. I have learned a lot since then and am now on my 3rd set of batteries with which I am pleased. I've also attached a photo of the top of the lower section of a VP 120s saildrive and am now thinking what Randy is proposing would be a great way to go. the shaft sticking up from the saildrive is actually a small jackshaft and slips onto the splines that are sticking out of the very top of the loewer unit. A new plate in place of all the parts of the upper section of the saildrive with a much simpler bracket?and coupling?method,? eliminating the friction loss of the original transmission, shifting issues etc. would seem to be a much better way to go.
Please please please let us all know if this works out and take?and share pictures. Cheers, Ric
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Ric,
Wow, thanks!
I would be interested in seeing your progress as you move the vertical alignment forward.
Best of luck!
?
Marcel
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Ric Sanders via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2023 12:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Advice for electric conversion
?
Okay,
I've attached a pdf of my conversion from the 30+ year old really expensive parts Volvo Piece of iron to the Thunderstruck AC 34 for your?entertainment. I have learned a lot since then and am now on my 3rd set of batteries with which I
am pleased. I've also attached a photo of the top of the lower section of a VP 120s saildrive and am now thinking what Randy is proposing would be a great way to go. the shaft sticking up from the saildrive is actually a small jackshaft and slips onto the
splines that are sticking out of the very top of the loewer unit. A new plate in place of all the parts of the upper section of the saildrive with a much simpler bracket?and coupling?method,? eliminating the friction loss of the original transmission, shifting
issues etc. would seem to be a much better way to go.
Please please please let us all know if this works out and take?and share pictures.
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Hi Ric,
Thanks for posting this info!
We had alot of steam and water (salt), coming out our "air filter" intake on the weekend.? Lucky, we happened to be out with a friend who was a diesel mechanic.? He suggested a possible blown head gasket and "recommended" we turn around and head home. We spent the rest of the day removing the head but he said the gasket seemed fine and now wants to do pressure tests and other cylinder lining crack inspection work.....
But for me, this could be good enough reason to convert...
Cheers, Stu.
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Alex from Frolic
Ric Sanders
Reuben Trane
Randy Cain
Rumble