Keyboard Shortcuts
ctrl + shift + ? :
Show all keyboard shortcuts
ctrl + g :
Navigate to a group
ctrl + shift + f :
Find
ctrl + / :
Quick actions
esc to dismiss
Likes
- Electricboats
- Messages
Search
|
Re: Green Electric boat for sale --- 15' Alumcraft with 48V Electric O/B and trailer
Hi Ed,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Tell us more about the boat. Why are you selling it? What kind of batteries? How many batteries? How old are the batteries? What kind of performance have you observed since the boat was converted to electric? Range? Speed? Watts to knots? Thanks, Eric --- In electricboats@..., "edzpan" <edzpan@...> wrote:
|
|
Re: Green Electric boat for sale --- 15' Alumcraft with 48V Electric O/B and trailer
I can also sell the new 48V Parsun Electric O/B without the boat and trailer for $1799. The whole package (boat + trailer + E O/B ) is $3199.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In electricboats@..., "edzpan" <edzpan@...> wrote:
|
|
Green Electric boat for sale --- 15' Alumcraft with 48V Electric O/B and trailer
Up for sale is an environment friendly green electric boat perfected for fresh water fishing, hunting, and family pleasures. It comes with a brand new 48V electric outboard, so that it can run at high speed at reservoirs, lakes, and rivers, where gas motors are prohibited. The boat is overall in GREAT condition, running like a charm, as can be seen in the actual pictures attached below. In more details, it is a 15?? ALUMCRAFT bass tracker, which comes with the trailer, the Parsun 48V ELECTRIC OUTBOARD, bow mount Minn Kota trolling motor, remote throttle control, electric start keys, steering console with meters and switches, Lawrence fishing finder, live well with circulating pump, bilge pump, three driving seats, two fishing seats, built-in cooler, lights, fully decked with carpet, and tons of storage. With this boat, you can get to hot fishing spots in large fresh water bodies quickly, such as at Liberty reservoir, Loch Raven, Pretty Boy, and Triadelphia. With this boat, you can go fishing, crabbing, or tournament tomorrow.
The new Parsun electric outboard with remote throttle control and steering has been installed on the boat, and tested. It is designed for 48 VDC battery systems. It provides 90 amps of continuous current and 3.0Kw output power. The unit has a 5 step painting process to prevent corrosion. It can be used in Salt Water when you follow the directions in the manual. A comparable Ray Electric Outboard typically costs $5,000 ~ $6,000 just for the motor itself. The Parsun outboard powers the boat like the Ray, except it runs much more quietly, without producing the high-pitch noise like Ray does at all. We are talking about spending half of the Ray price and getting the whole package instead, including boat, trailer, and everything else. The boat trailer is also in good shape. It comes with everything you need to easily load and unload the boat. The guides on the trailer automatically align the boat on the right position when you pull the trailer and boat out of the water. The trailer takes a 1-7/8 ball. Both the boat and the trailer will come with the Maryland State paper. I will also toss in a boat cover, rolling pedal, life vest, etc. For pictures of the boat, motor, etc., take a look at this link: Please call Ed at 410-491-5538. |
|
Re: [Electric Boats] Zebra Battery - molten sodium aluminumchloride (NaAlCl4),
Clearly you are correct .. hence the statement "They seem suitable for a boat with a constant charge source (wind/solar/shore power)."
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
They have to be kept hot and will shut down after 3-4 days without added power. I was more interested to see if anyone had any practical experience with them, and if there was any data on pricing. If they are in active use in production EVs, they must have some advantages. --- In electricboats@..., Matthew Geier <matthew@...> wrote:
|
|
Re: [Electric Boats] Zebra Battery - molten sodium aluminumchloride (NaAlCl4),
Arby bernt
Molten sodium, with a ceramic separator, might just be the ultimate in dangerous energy storage for a boat. I would rather go nuclear... Liquid sodium batteries are currently in use for utility power demand leveling in Japan, where the complex system can be monitored and maintained "safely". These batteries require heating during resting and low power output, and cooling during medium and high output. If they cool down, they cannot be discharged. If they over-heat, they'll burst their separators and drip liquid metal. Ever see sodium touch water. Check it out on YouTube. Better crank down that stuffing box nut an extra turn. Be Safe, Arby From: Matthew Geier To: electricboats@... Sent: Tue, November 16, 2010 10:22:24 PM Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Zebra Battery - molten sodium aluminumchloride (NaAlCl4), ? On 17/11/10 11:21, Galstaf wrote: |
|
Re: [Electric Boats] Zebra Battery - molten sodium aluminumchloride (NaAlCl4),
Matthew Geier
On 17/11/10 11:21, Galstaf wrote:
How to you 'cold start' if on a boat and you have let the system cool down ?. You need an alternative power source to get the system running again, which if anchored in a remote bay some where, plugging into the 'grid' to kick start the system will not be an option. |
|
Re: [Electric Boats] Picking batteries - NiFe
开云体育Nickel Iron does not sulfate, The fill lines are above the plates and the orientation can eliminate any possable exposure to the air.Kevin Pemberton On 11/16/2010 03:52 PM, Capt. Mike wrote:
-- Ubuntu10.04, Acer AspireOne, Virgin Mobile 3G Broadband2go. Doesn't get any better than this! |
|
Re: [Electric Boats] Picking batteries - NiFe
Hi Kevin,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I'm with you about multihulls, weight is a killer. I didn't convert my F-27 trimaran to electric for exactly that reason. While not exactly a passage maikng cruiser, my trips have been limited to no more than 3 days of blue water racing at a time. With a new 9.8 Tohatsu outboard with 40nm of fuel that all together weighs less than two group 27 batteries, I've been able to keep my performance up. A month ago, I was racing back from Catalina after staying aboard for a long weekend with three people onboard and we were sailing at 12+kts in 15kts true wind. Add another 300 pounds and the boat only hits 8kts in the same conditions (I know this from day sails with 2 more guests). For my Bermuda 30 Ketch electric conversion, space has been my biggest challenge. An old sailboat design (H28 knockoff with narrow beam and wineglass hull), there was little enough locker space available before I started, I'm trying to get the entire drive including batteries to fit within the same space as the old engine and fuel tank, while retaining some level of accessability. The 8kWh of LiFePO4 batteries that I purchased are making that goal possible. And yes, the battery bank is equiped with BMS modules that will prevent any over or under-voltage condition. My friends with 48 cell LiFeO4 banks (24kWh) in their electric cars haven't lost a cell yet in over 500 cycles using the same components. I know that I am taking a risk in a marine environment, but I won't be tackling any 2 week passages in this boat anyway. We'll have to compare notes of how our boats perform after both of our conversions are complete. Fair winds, Eric Marina del Rey, CA --- In electricboats@..., Kevin Pemberton <pembertonkevin@...> wrote:
|
|
Zebra Battery - molten sodium aluminumchloride (NaAlCl4),
On the subject of batteries, molten electrode are looking like a promising technology because of the high availability of their component elements.
They have similar numbers to Lithium based systems.. but should potentially be cheaper because of lower cost raw materials. NaS high temp batteries seem to be the technology of choice for multi-megawatt utility storage systems that are coming online.. problem is they operate at up to 700 Celsius. Sodium aluminumchloride (245 Celsius) are already in use in some electric vehicles in Europe (see ) .. has anyone heard anything about them in the States or perhaps got any idea about reliability or pricing. They seem suitable for a boat with a constant charge source (wind/solar/shore power). Thoughts or comments? ZEBRA battery Molten salt battery ZEBRA Na-NiCl2 battery, Museum Autovision, Altlu?heim, Germany specific energy 90 Wh/kg[1] energy density 160 Wh/l[1] specific power 155 W/kg, peak power 335 C [2] Energy/consumer-price 3.33 Wh/US$ Self-discharge rate 18%/day [2] Time durability >8 years Cycle durability ~3000 cycles Nominal cell voltage 2.58 V The ZEBRA battery operates at 245 °C (473 °F) and utilizes molten sodium aluminumchloride (NaAlCl4), which has a melting point of 157 °C (315 °F), as the electrolyte. The negative electrode is molten sodium. The positive electrode is nickel in the discharged state and nickel chloride in the charged state. Because nickel and nickel chloride are nearly insoluble in neutral and basic melts, intimate contact is allowed, providing little resistance to charge transfer. Since both NaAlCl4 and Na are liquid at the operating temperature, a sodium-conducting β-alumina ceramic is used to separate the liquid sodium from the molten NaAlCl4. This battery was invented in 1985 by the Zeolite Battery Research Africa Project (ZEBRA) group led by Dr. Johan Coetzer at the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR) in Pretoria, South Africa, hence the name ZEBRA battery. In 2009, the battery had been under development for more than 20 years. The technical name for the battery is Na-NiCl2 battery. The ZEBRA battery has an attractive specific energy and power (90 Wh/kg and 150 W/kg). For comparison, LiFePO4 lithium iron phosphate batteries store 90–110 Wh/kg and the more common LiCoO2 lithium ion batteries store 150–200 Wh/kg. Nano Lithium-Titanate Batteries store energy and power of (116 Wh & 72 Wh/kg) and (1,250 W & 760 W/kg)[3]. The ZEBRA's liquid electrolyte freezes at 157 °C (315 °F), and the normal operating temperature range is 270 °C (518 °F) to 350 °C (662 °F). The β-alumina solid electrolyte that has been developed for this system is very stable, both to sodium metal and the sodium aluminumchloride. The primary elements used in the manufacture of ZEBRA batteries, Na, Cl and Al have much higher worldwide reserves and annual production than the Li used in Li-ion batteries.[4] Lifetimes of over 1500 cycles and five years have been demonstrated with full-sized batteries, and over 3000 cycles and eight years with 10- and 20-cell modules. Vehicles powered by ZEBRA batteries have covered more than 2 million km. Modec Electric Van uses ZEBRA batteries for the 2007 model. The Th!nk City also uses ZEBRA batteries.[5] When not in use, ZEBRA batteries are typically left under charge so that they will remain molten and be ready for use when needed. If shut down and allowed to solidify, a reheating process must be initiated that may require up to two days to restore the battery pack to the desired temperature and impart a full charge. This reheating time varies depending on the state-of-charge of the batteries at the time of their shut down, battery-pack temperature, and power available for reheating. After a full shut down of the battery pack, three to four days will usually elapse before a fully-charged battery pack loses enough energy to cool and solidify.[citation needed] |
|
[Electric Boats] Re: New Electric Cat
Hi Pierre,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
According to Torqeedo spec sheets, the 26-104 battery is 26V and 104Ah at 100% depth of discharge. The company claims 800 cycles to 100% DoD resulting in capacity loss of 25%. I would typically rate a battery to only 80% DoD, if only to have some sort of emergency reserve, but that's just me. Fair winds, Eric Marina del Rey, CA --- In electricboats@..., "qc_ca_666" <qc_ca_666@...> wrote:
|
|
Re: [Electric Boats] Picking batteries - NiFe
John,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Let's do that. We'll even double the number of T-105s to get the weight closer to the 200Ah 12V NiFe array. 2400Wh NiFe = 13.2" x 32" x 13.6" = $1760 FOB 5745 cu. inches, 280 pounds, 1920Wh usable @ 80% DoD 5400Wh T-105 = 10.4" x 28.6" x 10.7" = $600 delivered 3182 cu. inches, 248 pounds, 2700Wh usable @ 50% DoD The four T-105s have 40% more usable capacity, are 44% smaller, are 11% lighter and and are 1/3 the cost of the 200Ah 12V NiFe bank. Even running the NiFe batteies to 100% DoD gives less capacity than the T-105s at 50% DoD. Using a 50% DoD on the FLA batteries also gives you a bigger reserve in case of an emergency. But as I've said before, everyone needs to figure out what is most important for themselves, every choice comes with tradeoffs. The cool part is that we each get to build our boats any way we like. I'm looking forward to hearing how the first NiFe boat in this group turns out. Fair winds, Eric Marina del Rey, CA --- In electricboats@..., john briese <goodguyforsure@...> wrote:
|
|
Re: [Electric Boats] Picking batteries - NiFe
I tend to agree with Miles and Matthew on using some type of lead acid batteries. AGM's make the most sense for my needs. But, I do find the discussions here very informative no matter what the type. Since I am also working on some energy projects at my house too. As I said AGM's are my choice. But, I wonder about flooded and nickel iron battery use on a monohull sailboat. While under sail such a boat may be healed over under sail for a long time. I wonder if there is a danger the plates might be exposed to air (and sulfated) if they are not kept topped up completely when sailing. Just curious.
Sent from on board BIANKA From: Matthew Geier <matthew@...>
Sender: electricboats@...
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 06:04:24 +1100 To: <electricboats@...> ReplyTo: electricboats@... Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Picking batteries - NiFe On 17/11/10 01:21, john briese wrote: All this?"Math" forgets using 50% of charge on T105s and using 80 to 100% on Nife. ?Some where in the pile of doco I have about my T145s Trojan say they rated them for 80% DOD. Yes they recomend 50% for optimum life, but the cycle rating given is for 80% usage. ?My T145s will die of old age before they die of excessive cycles even if I took them to 80% every use, which I don't. I think the most I've even taken them to is 60%. My usage is relatively low though. My boat spends more time sitting on a trailer than any thing else. ? ? |
|
[Electric Boats] Re: New Electric Cat
Is there supposed to be video with that?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In electricboats@..., "qc_ca_666" <qc_ca_666@...> wrote:
|
|
Re: [Electric Boats] Picking batteries - NiFe
Matthew Geier
开云体育On 17/11/10 01:21, john briese wrote:All this"Math" forgets using 50% of charge on T105s and using 80 to 100% on Nife. Some where in the pile of doco I have about my T145s Trojan say they rated them for 80% DOD. Yes they recomend 50% for optimum life, but the cycle rating given is for 80% usage. My T145s will die of old age before they die of excessive cycles even if I took them to 80% every use, which I don't. I think the most I've even taken them to is 60%. My usage is relatively low though. My boat spends more time sitting on a trailer than any thing else.
|
|
Re: [Electric Boats] Picking batteries - NiFe
开云体育Hey Eric,Thanks for doing the math.? I already did it. I also consider the fact that 50% of the T105 is dead weight, also for my application, as anyone with a MH knows you can't fill all the storage space without going over weight.? I regularly weigh my RV on the scales and have the weight capacity for 100Ah of NiFe. The heat battery will take more space than the NiFe battery. The cost of going NiFe has already been spent on Lead in the past, and I am close to the cross roads that determine my next course of action.? I personally know the folly of lead acid investment. Cruising on the boat that was dry, with serious weather the bilge pump had to run more often.? Electronics failed under these conditions.? I wonder about lithium batteries on a cruising boat, but that is only my opinion, (Well, OK, backed up by an engineer friend that designs lithium backup supplies for consumer electronics). Now it is easy for the week ender to avoid times when waves are crashing over the decks, but 15 or more days on the pond can't be predicted. We are lucky when the weather predictions are good for 5 days let alone 15 or more, if you could find such a prediction. As I have stated with my specs there are more things to consider than weight and space. I understand the need to stay light with multi hulls, and a multi hull can make a passage much shorter than with a mono.? Maybe enough to stay within the weather prediction window, but cruisers typically find weight less important than convenience over time.? The water line keeps raising with every year they spend on their boats.? Soon the multi hull dream of go fast, gives way to a better life, at close to mono hull speeds. This may be the reason experience gives way to desiring a mono hull rather than a multi.? The desire for space gives way to trollers rather than multi hulls.? All that said if I were to build or buy a gunk holer it would likely be a multi.? If I were to build or buy a seasonal boat it may likely be a multi hull.? If I were to go back to cruising, it would likely be a mono with hybrid power.? It would be without sail but not a troller.? If it were a power boat however, here is no way it would be any other kind of of boat but a troller.? Mono hull Sail boat modified to be a power vessel would likely be my pick. Kevin Pemberton On 11/16/2010 01:47 AM, Eric wrote: ? -- Ubuntu10.04, Acer AspireOne, Virgin Mobile 3G Broadband2go. Doesn't get any better than this! |
|
[Electric Boats] Re: New Electric Cat
mysloop
--- In electricboats@..., "Don Parsons" <tdparsons@...> wrote:
Me too. The only thing I'd change would be the glue he uses to epoxy. Plus, by building it you could put any type of motors in you like and you could have a deck pod. Blue Planet Catamarans makes you set out in the open and that could be a real pain if the weather gets bad on a trip. Just my take on it though. If all you want is to use it from time to time in only good weather and have 150k, guess it would be great. Michael Allison <myloop@...> Michael Allison |
|
Re: [Electric Boats] Picking batteries - NiFe
开云体育All this?"Math" forgets using 50% of charge on T105s and using 80 to 100% on Nife.? Lets complete the math. ? To: electricboats@... From: ewdysar@... Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 08:47:47 +0000 Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Picking batteries - NiFe ?
Kevin, I did the math with the data on the link that you provided. One 100Ah 1.2V cell weighs 4.9Kg (dry weight?), so 10 dry cells would weigh 49Kg which is 107.8 pounds. That battery would be rated for 1200Wh which is 11.1 Wh/lb. But the page says that you need to add distilled water to make them work, and of course the link doesn't say how much. If a 100Ah cell takes only 2 cups of water, then one cell is close to 12 pounds and we're back to 10Wh/lb. Looking at the 200Ah cells, they are 26.4 pounds dry or 264 pounds for a dry 200Ah 12V (2400kWh) battery. Add water and you're probably past 280 pounds or 8.5Wh/lb. Alternatively, a T-105 weighs 62 pounds (according to Trojan) and is rated for 225Ah @ 6V or 1350Wh. That works out to 21.8 Wh/lb. Take two in series and you've got a 225Ah 12V battery that weighs 124 pounds. Are you really sure that size doesn't matter? Lets compare the 200Ah 12V NiFe to the 225Ah 12V T-105s 2400Wh NiFe = 13.2" x 32" x 13.6" = 5745 cu. inches, 280 pounds 2700Wh T-105 = 10.4" x 14.3" x 10.7" = 1591 cu. inches, 124 pounds The NiFe battery is more than 3 times the volume of the two T-105s for 10% less rated capacity. I'm not passing any judgement, just doing the math so that people can decide for themselves. Fair winds, Eric Marina del Rey, CA --- In electricboats@..., Kevin Pemberton wrote: > > Eric, > > According to this page batteries supplied by Ironcorebatteries > 100Ah weigh almost 100lbs > for 12v pack. T 105 6v about 67lbs. No problem discharging NiFe to 80%, > big problem discharging the T 105 to 80% over the long haul. Was two > optima blue tops. 120 lbs for 100Ah when large discharges are not > figured in. Where is weight a problem? > > mount in wood mount because fumes are non corrosive, can be mounted > anyplace if vented outside. Size becomes no problem. > > And yes I see the weight problem with anything other than batteries > easily distroyed by over charge or over discharge. > > Kevin Pemberton > |
|
Re: [Electric Boats] Picking batteries - NiFe
Steve Spence
A t-105 may have 1350 watt hours, but it's not all available. only about 50% is useable if you are trying to get maximum life. The NiFe has over 80% of it's theoretical wh capacity available without degradation.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Steve Spence On 11/16/2010 03:47 AM, Eric wrote:
|
to navigate to use esc to dismiss