Re: [Electric Boats] Purchasing from China
At 03:14 PM 22/11/2010, you wrote: I looked into a couple of LED importers. They were selling complete systems, not components. All of them were using prison labor in China.
Please look into your sources....
Arby G'day Arby Thanks for the heads-up, but definitely no prison labour, he's looking to the quality end of the market, not the cheap end. Regards [Technik] James
|
Re: [Electric Boats] Purchasing from China
I looked into a couple of LED importers. They were selling complete systems, not components. All of them were using prison labor in China. Please look into your sources.... Arby
From: James Massey
To: electricboats@...
Sent: Sun, November 21, 2010 8:37:33 PM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Purchasing from China
?
G'day All
I have been dealing with someone in China who is setting up a
business to be a purchasing agent.
The areas he is specialising in is primarily renewable energy (solar,
wind, batteries, LED lighting, etc) but he is also keen on electric
propulsion so motors, controllers, contactors, etc.
His intent is to get the quality product that China makes be
available (instead of the flood of cheap-and-nasty that we're all
used to), and to ensure that the products he deals in is of good
quality (the sample batch of downlights that he has under-way for us
at present have been collected from the manufacturer, and are being
tested at an independent workshop now). Expect to pay a little more
than "Ebay special" pricing, but get quality that far exceeds the
typical Ebay products.
He has just started out, and is looking for clients to act on behalf
of. At this time he will happily deal with individuals, as long as
their purchase is worth-while (i.e. not in single quantities or
particularly low-value orders). For "Ebay quantities" he hopes to
have a web site set up in the next 6 to 12 months, but that is not
his priority. For now he will act as purchasing agent, either
fee-for-service or percent of invoice. Hopefully he can end up with
enough repeat-business customers for him to be successful, and we can
all see some quality product without paying through the nose for it.
If you are looking for a boat-fitout worth of lighting (or similar)
as a one-off I'm sure he'd be happy to work for you as a once-off,
although I can see as he gets busy he will be less keen to look after
smaller quantities for one-off customers, other than his future web site.
For any Australian orders, as long as you are not in a hurry I can
get items imported in conjunction with things we're getting.
If anyone is interested, I'll give you his details, send me an Email
(to spare me the spambots seeing my
address, so replace the _at_ with @ and all will be well).
Regards
James Massey
[Technik] James
|
G'day All
I have been dealing with someone in China who is setting up a business to be a purchasing agent.
The areas he is specialising in is primarily renewable energy (solar, wind, batteries, LED lighting, etc) but he is also keen on electric propulsion so motors, controllers, contactors, etc.
His intent is to get the quality product that China makes be available (instead of the flood of cheap-and-nasty that we're all used to), and to ensure that the products he deals in is of good quality (the sample batch of downlights that he has under-way for us at present have been collected from the manufacturer, and are being tested at an independent workshop now). Expect to pay a little more than "Ebay special" pricing, but get quality that far exceeds the typical Ebay products.
He has just started out, and is looking for clients to act on behalf of. At this time he will happily deal with individuals, as long as their purchase is worth-while (i.e. not in single quantities or particularly low-value orders). For "Ebay quantities" he hopes to have a web site set up in the next 6 to 12 months, but that is not his priority. For now he will act as purchasing agent, either fee-for-service or percent of invoice. Hopefully he can end up with enough repeat-business customers for him to be successful, and we can all see some quality product without paying through the nose for it.
If you are looking for a boat-fitout worth of lighting (or similar) as a one-off I'm sure he'd be happy to work for you as a once-off, although I can see as he gets busy he will be less keen to look after smaller quantities for one-off customers, other than his future web site.
For any Australian orders, as long as you are not in a hurry I can get items imported in conjunction with things we're getting.
If anyone is interested, I'll give you his details, send me an Email jcmassey_at_netspace.net.au (to spare me the spambots seeing my address, so replace the _at_ with @ and all will be well).
Regards
James Massey
[Technik] James
|
Re: [Electric Boats] Battery advice
In Excel:
?
B3= Waterline length in
feet
B4=Weight in lbs
B7=Motor current in amps
B8=Battery bank voltage
B9=Efficiency (85% is a typical
number)
B10=C20 bank capacity
B12==+B7*B8*B9/746
B14=124.18*POWER((B7*5/(B10/20)),-0.1526)/100?
(capacity reduction for Peukert effect of AGM battery)
?
Speed=10.665/(POWER(B4/B12,0.33))*SQRT(B3)*1.15
?
Range in miles?=+B19*B16
?
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 2:28
PM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Battery
advice
?
Hello,
I have laid my hand on 31Pcs. of exide batteries, 61Ah c10 /65Ah C10,
type " Exide sprinter P12V1575.
I assume these are excellent batteries to use in a electric boat.
I want to convert a regular outboard to electric with the use of a MARS
or ETEK style motor, and use in on 48 volts, just like the parsun
design.
Since these batteries are deep usage types (15 minutes on 1575W load),
they can deliver good high current, and i want to use four banks of 4
batteries, and get decent milage.
I have no boat yet, as i want to purchase one that fit my needs in terms
of capacity in power that i have reasonably available.
Any advice if this would be a nice setup for a ship to cruise plusminus 5
hours with approx. 5-6 miles in speed?
How can i calculate these figures?
Thanks.
|
Hello,
I have laid my hand on 31Pcs. of exide batteries, 61Ah c10 /65Ah C10, type " Exide sprinter P12V1575. I assume these are excellent batteries to use in a electric boat. I want to convert a regular outboard to electric with the use of a MARS or ETEK style motor, and use in on 48 volts, just like the parsun design. Since these batteries are deep usage types (15 minutes on 1575W load), they can deliver good high current, and i want to use four banks of 4 batteries, and get decent milage. I have no boat yet, as i want to purchase one that fit my needs in terms of capacity in power that i have reasonably available. Any advice if this would be a nice setup for a ship to cruise plusminus 5 hours with approx. 5-6 miles in speed?
How can i calculate these figures?
Thanks.
|
Re: [Electric Boats] battery source
You might also find these golf buggy businesses willing to sell batteries that have been previously used at a great discount. Though their capacity may be 40-60% of original, if that¡¯s enough for you, the savings can be great. My used T-105¡¯s cost me $20 each.? And as I get about 80ah out of these, the cost is about 4cents/watt-hr. That¡¯s a savings in $/wh of about 4x over the cost of new batteries. OTOH, they might only last me 3-5 more years¡ -mt
|
Re: [Electric Boats] battery source
?
Dear SBW,
Thanks allot for your clarification.
Cheers Stuart
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 1:16
PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] battery
source
?
I guess you'd call them golf buggies.? Folks use
them to ride around golf courses, retirement communities and other
places as well.? Here we call them golf carts or golf cars.? I
have no idea what a golf trolley is.
There are of course other
battery manufacturers besides Trojan.? Do your homework re battery
amp hours as they vary anywhere from about 180ah to 250 or so. You get
what you pay for; if you can't find the capacity stamped on the battery
or online somewhere, avoid it.? DON'T rely on the salesman's
bull.?
Batteries are HEAVY and shipping will kill
you.? Find a local supplier who buys them in bulk, which the golf
car folks do.?
Willie
--- On Sun, 11/21/10,
Stuart wrote:
From:
Stuart
Subject: Re: [Electric
Boats] battery source
To: electricboats@...
Date:
Sunday, November 21, 2010, 6:01 AM
?
?
Hi SBW,
Do you mean Golf Buggies or Golf Trolley
Batteries?
Cheers Stuart
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010
10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats]
battery source
?
Being they are GOLF cart batteries, they are
plentiful and easy to come by, call around to the golf cart
shops in your area.?? They buy batteries by the
pallet, and should give you a good price especially when you
buy 6 or more.? For a small fee they'll usually deliver
them too.
Willie
--- On Sat, 11/20/10,
tartan27hull157 <tartan27hull157@...>
wrote:
From:
tartan27hull157
Subject: [Electric
Boats] battery source
To:
electricboats@...
Date: Saturday, November
20, 2010, 11:19 PM
?
Hi guys,
Sorry, I know this must come up a lot,
but what is a good source for T-105s delivered at this
price?
Of course, other battery supplier
recommendations also welcome.
Thanks, Paul
---
In electricboats@..., "Eric"
>
> John,
>
> Let's do that. We'll even double the number of
T-105s to get the weight closer to the 200Ah 12V NiFe
array.
>
> 2400Wh NiFe = 13.2" x 32" x 13.6" =
$1760 FOB
> 5745 cu. inches, 280 pounds, 1920Wh
usable @ 80% DoD
> 5400Wh T-105 = 10.4" x 28.6" x
10.7" = $600 delivered
> 3182 cu. inches, 248 pounds,
2700Wh usable @ 50% DoD
>
> The four T-105s
have 40% more usable capacity, are 44% smaller, are 11%
lighter and and are 1/3 the cost of the 200Ah 12V NiFe bank.
Even running the NiFe batteies to 100% DoD gives less
capacity than the T-105s at 50% DoD. Using a 50% DoD on the
FLA batteries also gives you a bigger reserve in case of an
emergency.
>
> But as I've said before,
everyone needs to figure out what is most important for
themselves, every choice comes with tradeoffs. The cool part
is that we each get to build our boats any way we like. I'm
looking forward to hearing how the first NiFe boat in this
group turns out.
>
> Fair winds,
>
Eric
> Marina del Rey, CA
>
> --- In electricboats@..., john briese
wrote:
> >
> >
All this "Math" forgets using 50% of charge on T105s and
using 80 to 100% on Nife.
> >
> > Lets
complete the math.
> >
> > To: electricboats@...
> >
From: ewdysar@
> > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 08:47:47
+0000
> > Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Picking
batteries - NiFe
> >
> > Kevin,
>
>
> > I did the math with the data on the link
that you provided.... Looking at the 200Ah cells, they are
26.4 pounds dry or 264 pounds for a dry 200Ah 12V (2400kWh)
battery. Add water and you're probably past 280 pounds or
8.5Wh/lb.
> >
> > Alternatively, a T-105
weighs 62 pounds (according to Trojan) and is rated for
225Ah @ 6V or 1350Wh. That works out to 21.8 Wh/lb. Take two
in series and you've got a 225Ah 12V battery that weighs 124
pounds.
> >
> > Are you really sure that
size doesn't matter? Lets compare the 200Ah 12V NiFe to the
225Ah 12V T-105s
> >
> > 2400Wh NiFe =
13.2" x 32" x 13.6" = 5745 cu. inches, 280 pounds
>
> 2700Wh T-105 = 10.4" x 14.3" x 10.7" = 1591 cu. inches,
124 pounds
> >
> > The NiFe battery is
more than 3 times the volume of the two T-105s for 10% less
rated capacity.
> >
> > I'm not passing
any judgement, just doing the math so that people can decide
for themselves.
> >
> > Fair
winds,
> > Eric
> > Marina del Rey,
CA
> >
> > --- In electricboats@..., Kevin
Pemberton wrote:
> >
>
> > > Eric,
> > >
> >
> According to this page batteries supplied by
Ironcorebatteries
> > >
100Ah weigh almost 100lbs
> > > for 12v pack...
> > >
> > > Kevin
Pemberton
> > >
>
>
>
|
|
|
Re: [Electric Boats] battery source
I guess you'd call them golf buggies.? Folks use them to ride around golf courses, retirement communities and other places as well.? Here we call them golf carts or golf cars.? I have no idea what a golf trolley is.
There are of course other battery manufacturers besides Trojan.? Do your homework re battery amp hours as they vary anywhere from about 180ah to 250 or so. You get what you pay for; if you can't find the capacity stamped on the battery or online somewhere, avoid it.? DON'T rely on the salesman's bull.?
Batteries are HEAVY and shipping will kill you.? Find a local supplier who buys them in bulk, which the golf car folks do.?
Willie
|
--- On Sun, 11/21/10, Stuart wrote:
From: Stuart
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] battery source
To: electricboats@...
Date: Sunday, November 21, 2010, 6:01 AM
?
?
Hi SBW,
Do you mean Golf Buggies or Golf Trolley
Batteries?
Cheers Stuart
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 10:26
AM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] battery
source
?
Being they are GOLF cart batteries, they are plentiful
and easy to come by, call around to the golf cart shops in your
area.?? They buy batteries by the pallet, and should give you
a good price especially when you buy 6 or more.? For a small fee
they'll usually deliver them too.
Willie
--- On Sat,
11/20/10, tartan27hull157 <tartan27hull157@...>
wrote:
From:
tartan27hull157
Subject:
[Electric Boats] battery source
To:
electricboats@...
Date: Saturday, November 20, 2010,
11:19 PM
?
Hi guys,
Sorry, I know this must come up a lot, but what is
a good source for T-105s delivered at this price?
Of course,
other battery supplier recommendations also welcome.
Thanks,
Paul
--- In electricboats@...,
"Eric" wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Let's do that. We'll even double the number of T-105s to get
the weight closer to the 200Ah 12V NiFe array.
>
> 2400Wh
NiFe = 13.2" x 32" x 13.6" = $1760 FOB
> 5745 cu. inches, 280
pounds, 1920Wh usable @ 80% DoD
> 5400Wh T-105 = 10.4" x 28.6" x
10.7" = $600 delivered
> 3182 cu. inches, 248 pounds, 2700Wh
usable @ 50% DoD
>
> The four T-105s have 40% more usable
capacity, are 44% smaller, are 11% lighter and and are 1/3 the cost of
the 200Ah 12V NiFe bank. Even running the NiFe batteies to 100% DoD
gives less capacity than the T-105s at 50% DoD. Using a 50% DoD on the
FLA batteries also gives you a bigger reserve in case of an
emergency.
>
> But as I've said before, everyone needs to
figure out what is most important for themselves, every choice comes
with tradeoffs. The cool part is that we each get to build our boats
any way we like. I'm looking forward to hearing how the first NiFe
boat in this group turns out.
>
> Fair winds,
>
Eric
> Marina del Rey, CA
>
> --- In electricboats@...,
john briese wrote:
> >
> >
All this "Math" forgets using 50% of charge on T105s and using 80 to
100% on Nife.
> >
> > Lets complete the
math.
> >
> > To: electricboats@...
>
> From: ewdysar@
> > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 08:47:47
+0000
> > Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Picking batteries -
NiFe
> >
> > Kevin,
> >
> > I
did the math with the data on the link that you provided.... Looking
at the 200Ah cells, they are 26.4 pounds dry or 264 pounds for a dry
200Ah 12V (2400kWh) battery. Add water and you're probably past 280
pounds or 8.5Wh/lb.
> >
> > Alternatively, a T-105
weighs 62 pounds (according to Trojan) and is rated for 225Ah @ 6V or
1350Wh. That works out to 21.8 Wh/lb. Take two in series and you've
got a 225Ah 12V battery that weighs 124 pounds.
> >
>
> Are you really sure that size doesn't matter? Lets compare the
200Ah 12V NiFe to the 225Ah 12V T-105s
> >
> >
2400Wh NiFe = 13.2" x 32" x 13.6" = 5745 cu. inches, 280
pounds
> > 2700Wh T-105 = 10.4" x 14.3" x 10.7" = 1591 cu.
inches, 124 pounds
> >
> > The NiFe battery is more
than 3 times the volume of the two T-105s for 10% less rated capacity.
> >
> > I'm not passing any judgement, just doing
the math so that people can decide for themselves.
> >
> > Fair winds,
> > Eric
> > Marina del
Rey, CA
> >
> > --- In electricboats@...,
Kevin Pemberton wrote:
> >
>
> > > Eric,
> > >
> > >
According to this page batteries supplied by Ironcorebatteries
> > > 100Ah
weigh almost 100lbs
> > > for 12v pack...
> >
>
> > > Kevin Pemberton
> > >
>
>
>
|
|
Re: [Electric Boats] battery source
?
Hi SBW,
Do you mean Golf Buggies or Golf Trolley
Batteries?
Cheers Stuart
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 10:26
AM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] battery
source
?
Being they are GOLF cart batteries, they are plentiful
and easy to come by, call around to the golf cart shops in your
area.?? They buy batteries by the pallet, and should give you
a good price especially when you buy 6 or more.? For a small fee
they'll usually deliver them too.
Willie
--- On Sat,
11/20/10, tartan27hull157 <tartan27hull157@...>
wrote:
From:
tartan27hull157
Subject:
[Electric Boats] battery source
To:
electricboats@...
Date: Saturday, November 20, 2010,
11:19 PM
?
Hi guys,
Sorry, I know this must come up a lot, but what is
a good source for T-105s delivered at this price?
Of course,
other battery supplier recommendations also welcome.
Thanks,
Paul
--- In electricboats@...,
"Eric" wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Let's do that. We'll even double the number of T-105s to get
the weight closer to the 200Ah 12V NiFe array.
>
> 2400Wh
NiFe = 13.2" x 32" x 13.6" = $1760 FOB
> 5745 cu. inches, 280
pounds, 1920Wh usable @ 80% DoD
> 5400Wh T-105 = 10.4" x 28.6" x
10.7" = $600 delivered
> 3182 cu. inches, 248 pounds, 2700Wh
usable @ 50% DoD
>
> The four T-105s have 40% more usable
capacity, are 44% smaller, are 11% lighter and and are 1/3 the cost of
the 200Ah 12V NiFe bank. Even running the NiFe batteies to 100% DoD
gives less capacity than the T-105s at 50% DoD. Using a 50% DoD on the
FLA batteries also gives you a bigger reserve in case of an
emergency.
>
> But as I've said before, everyone needs to
figure out what is most important for themselves, every choice comes
with tradeoffs. The cool part is that we each get to build our boats
any way we like. I'm looking forward to hearing how the first NiFe
boat in this group turns out.
>
> Fair winds,
>
Eric
> Marina del Rey, CA
>
> --- In electricboats@...,
john briese wrote:
> >
> >
All this "Math" forgets using 50% of charge on T105s and using 80 to
100% on Nife.
> >
> > Lets complete the
math.
> >
> > To: electricboats@...
>
> From: ewdysar@
> > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 08:47:47
+0000
> > Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Picking batteries -
NiFe
> >
> > Kevin,
> >
> > I
did the math with the data on the link that you provided.... Looking
at the 200Ah cells, they are 26.4 pounds dry or 264 pounds for a dry
200Ah 12V (2400kWh) battery. Add water and you're probably past 280
pounds or 8.5Wh/lb.
> >
> > Alternatively, a T-105
weighs 62 pounds (according to Trojan) and is rated for 225Ah @ 6V or
1350Wh. That works out to 21.8 Wh/lb. Take two in series and you've
got a 225Ah 12V battery that weighs 124 pounds.
> >
>
> Are you really sure that size doesn't matter? Lets compare the
200Ah 12V NiFe to the 225Ah 12V T-105s
> >
> >
2400Wh NiFe = 13.2" x 32" x 13.6" = 5745 cu. inches, 280
pounds
> > 2700Wh T-105 = 10.4" x 14.3" x 10.7" = 1591 cu.
inches, 124 pounds
> >
> > The NiFe battery is more
than 3 times the volume of the two T-105s for 10% less rated capacity.
> >
> > I'm not passing any judgement, just doing
the math so that people can decide for themselves.
> >
> > Fair winds,
> > Eric
> > Marina del
Rey, CA
> >
> > --- In electricboats@...,
Kevin Pemberton wrote:
> >
>
> > > Eric,
> > >
> > >
According to this page batteries supplied by Ironcorebatteries
> > > 100Ah
weigh almost 100lbs
> > > for 12v pack...
> >
>
> > > Kevin Pemberton
> > >
>
>
>
|
|
Re: [Electric Boats] battery source
Being they are GOLF cart batteries, they are plentiful and easy to come by, call around to the golf cart shops in your area.?? They buy batteries by the pallet, and should give you a good price especially when you buy 6 or more.? For a small fee they'll usually deliver them too.
Willie
|
--- On Sat, 11/20/10, tartan27hull157 wrote:
From: tartan27hull157 Subject: [Electric Boats] battery source
To: electricboats@...
Date: Saturday, November 20, 2010, 11:19 PM
?
Hi guys,
Sorry, I know this must come up a lot, but what is a good source for T-105s delivered at this price?
Of course, other battery supplier recommendations also welcome.
Thanks, Paul
--- In electricboats@..., "Eric" wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Let's do that. We'll even double the number of T-105s to get the weight closer to the 200Ah 12V NiFe array.
>
> 2400Wh NiFe = 13.2" x 32" x 13.6" = $1760 FOB
> 5745 cu. inches, 280 pounds, 1920Wh usable @ 80% DoD
> 5400Wh T-105 = 10.4" x 28.6" x 10.7" = $600 delivered
> 3182 cu. inches, 248 pounds, 2700Wh usable @ 50% DoD
>
> The four T-105s have 40% more usable capacity, are 44% smaller, are 11% lighter and and are 1/3 the cost of the 200Ah 12V NiFe bank. Even running the NiFe batteies to 100% DoD gives less capacity than the T-105s at 50% DoD. Using a 50% DoD on the FLA batteries also gives you a bigger reserve in case of an emergency.
>
> But as I've said before, everyone needs to figure out what is most important for themselves, every choice comes with tradeoffs. The cool part is that we each get to build our boats any way we like. I'm looking forward to hearing how the first NiFe boat in this group turns out.
>
> Fair winds,
> Eric
> Marina del Rey, CA
>
> --- In electricboats@..., john briese wrote:
> >
> > All this "Math" forgets using 50% of charge on T105s and using 80 to 100% on Nife.
> >
> > Lets complete the math.
> >
> > To: electricboats@...
> > From: ewdysar@
> > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 08:47:47 +0000
> > Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Picking batteries - NiFe
> >
> > Kevin,
> >
> > I did the math with the data on the link that you provided.... Looking at the 200Ah cells, they are 26.4 pounds dry or 264 pounds for a dry 200Ah 12V (2400kWh) battery. Add water and you're probably past 280 pounds or 8.5Wh/lb.
> >
> > Alternatively, a T-105 weighs 62 pounds (according to Trojan) and is rated for 225Ah @ 6V or 1350Wh. That works out to 21.8 Wh/lb. Take two in series and you've got a 225Ah 12V battery that weighs 124 pounds.
> >
> > Are you really sure that size doesn't matter? Lets compare the 200Ah 12V NiFe to the 225Ah 12V T-105s
> >
> > 2400Wh NiFe = 13.2" x 32" x 13.6" = 5745 cu. inches, 280 pounds
> > 2700Wh T-105 = 10.4" x 14.3" x 10.7" = 1591 cu. inches, 124 pounds
> >
> > The NiFe battery is more than 3 times the volume of the two T-105s for 10% less rated capacity.
> >
> > I'm not passing any judgement, just doing the math so that people can decide for themselves.
> >
> > Fair winds,
> > Eric
> > Marina del Rey, CA
> >
> > --- In electricboats@..., Kevin Pemberton wrote:
> > >
> > > Eric,
> > >
> > > According to this page batteries supplied by Ironcorebatteries
> > > 100Ah weigh almost 100lbs
> > > for 12v pack...
> > >
> > > Kevin Pemberton
> > >
> >
>
|
Hi guys,
Sorry, I know this must come up a lot, but what is a good source for T-105s delivered at this price?
Of course, other battery supplier recommendations also welcome.
Thanks, Paul
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In electricboats@..., "Eric" <ewdysar@...> wrote:
John,
Let's do that. We'll even double the number of T-105s to get the weight closer to the 200Ah 12V NiFe array.
2400Wh NiFe = 13.2" x 32" x 13.6" = $1760 FOB
5745 cu. inches, 280 pounds, 1920Wh usable @ 80% DoD
5400Wh T-105 = 10.4" x 28.6" x 10.7" = $600 delivered
3182 cu. inches, 248 pounds, 2700Wh usable @ 50% DoD
The four T-105s have 40% more usable capacity, are 44% smaller, are 11% lighter and and are 1/3 the cost of the 200Ah 12V NiFe bank. Even running the NiFe batteies to 100% DoD gives less capacity than the T-105s at 50% DoD. Using a 50% DoD on the FLA batteries also gives you a bigger reserve in case of an emergency.
But as I've said before, everyone needs to figure out what is most important for themselves, every choice comes with tradeoffs. The cool part is that we each get to build our boats any way we like. I'm looking forward to hearing how the first NiFe boat in this group turns out.
Fair winds,
Eric
Marina del Rey, CA
--- In electricboats@..., john briese <goodguyforsure@> wrote:
All this "Math" forgets using 50% of charge on T105s and using 80 to 100% on Nife.
Lets complete the math.
To: electricboats@...
From: ewdysar@
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 08:47:47 +0000
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Picking batteries - NiFe
Kevin,
I did the math with the data on the link that you provided.... Looking at the 200Ah cells, they are 26.4 pounds dry or 264 pounds for a dry 200Ah 12V (2400kWh) battery. Add water and you're probably past 280 pounds or 8.5Wh/lb.
Alternatively, a T-105 weighs 62 pounds (according to Trojan) and is rated for 225Ah @ 6V or 1350Wh. That works out to 21.8 Wh/lb. Take two in series and you've got a 225Ah 12V battery that weighs 124 pounds.
Are you really sure that size doesn't matter? Lets compare the 200Ah 12V NiFe to the 225Ah 12V T-105s
2400Wh NiFe = 13.2" x 32" x 13.6" = 5745 cu. inches, 280 pounds
2700Wh T-105 = 10.4" x 14.3" x 10.7" = 1591 cu. inches, 124 pounds
The NiFe battery is more than 3 times the volume of the two T-105s for 10% less rated capacity.
I'm not passing any judgement, just doing the math so that people can decide for themselves.
Fair winds,
Eric
Marina del Rey, CA
--- In electricboats@..., Kevin Pemberton <pembertonkevin@> wrote:
Eric,
According to this page batteries supplied by Ironcorebatteries
100Ah weigh almost 100lbs
for 12v pack...
Kevin Pemberton
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Re: Green Electric boat for sale --- 15' Alumcraft with 48V Electric O/B and trailer
Hi Eric,
Thanks for your questions. My family just bought a 20' Ranger fishing and skiing boat because my kids recently developed great interests into water skiing, which means, as usual, I have to sacrifice and sell the electric ALUMCRAFT :) You may see the picture of our new Ranger boat here: . Nevertheless, my kids have really loved driving the electric boats at lakes and have made many others jealous. The current Parsun electric O/B is brand new, recently received as a Warranty replacement.
Battery wise, I have tried four x 12V, six x 8V, and eight x 6V deep cycle configurations. Sam's Club has both 6V and 8V deep cycle batteries at very good price. The 6V Trojan golf cart battery (like T-105) produces the best performance, but also cost almost double. In my experiences, with eight x 6V Sam's batteries, I ran about and fished all day long at Liberty without any problem. I especially enjoyed fishing at Liberty simply by driving and fast trolling on the console. For smaller water bodies, such like Triadelphia or Rocky Gorge reservoirs, I assess that the four x 12V or six x 8V configuration would be already sufficient.
Note that the current price does not include the batteries, such that the next buyer can make the best choice for himself, as there are so many configurations and manufacturers that can be considered.
Regards,
Ed.
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--- In electricboats@..., "Eric" <ewdysar@...> wrote:
Hi Ed,
Tell us more about the boat. Why are you selling it? What kind of batteries? How many batteries? How old are the batteries? What kind of performance have you observed since the boat was converted to electric? Range? Speed? Watts to knots?
Thanks,
Eric
--- In electricboats@..., "edzpan" <edzpan@> wrote:
I can also sell the new 48V Parsun Electric O/B without the boat and trailer for $1799. The whole package (boat + trailer + E O/B ) is $3199.
--- In electricboats@..., "edzpan" <edzpan@> wrote:
Up for sale is an environment friendly green electric boat perfected for fresh water fishing, hunting, and family pleasures. It comes with a brand new 48V electric outboard, so that it can run at high speed at reservoirs, lakes, and rivers, where gas motors are prohibited. The boat is overall in GREAT condition, running like a charm, as can be seen in the actual pictures attached below. In more details, it is a 15?? ALUMCRAFT bass tracker, which comes with the trailer, the Parsun 48V ELECTRIC OUTBOARD...
Both the boat and the trailer will come with the Maryland State paper. I will also toss in a boat cover, rolling pedal, life vest, etc.
For pictures of the boat, motor, etc., take a look at this link:
Please call Ed at 410-491-5538.
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If you are looking for a EU2000i they are on sale now for $899 from authorized dealers through the 29th of this month. I picked up one today.
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Re: Green Electric boat for sale --- 15' Alumcraft with 48V Electric O/B and trailer
Hi Ed,
Tell us more about the boat. Why are you selling it? What kind of batteries? How many batteries? How old are the batteries? What kind of performance have you observed since the boat was converted to electric? Range? Speed? Watts to knots?
Thanks,
Eric
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--- In electricboats@..., "edzpan" <edzpan@...> wrote:
I can also sell the new 48V Parsun Electric O/B without the boat and trailer for $1799. The whole package (boat + trailer + E O/B ) is $3199.
--- In electricboats@..., "edzpan" <edzpan@> wrote:
Up for sale is an environment friendly green electric boat perfected for fresh water fishing, hunting, and family pleasures. It comes with a brand new 48V electric outboard, so that it can run at high speed at reservoirs, lakes, and rivers, where gas motors are prohibited. The boat is overall in GREAT condition, running like a charm, as can be seen in the actual pictures attached below. In more details, it is a 15?? ALUMCRAFT bass tracker, which comes with the trailer, the Parsun 48V ELECTRIC OUTBOARD...
Both the boat and the trailer will come with the Maryland State paper. I will also toss in a boat cover, rolling pedal, life vest, etc.
For pictures of the boat, motor, etc., take a look at this link:
Please call Ed at 410-491-5538.
|
Re: Green Electric boat for sale --- 15' Alumcraft with 48V Electric O/B and trailer
I can also sell the new 48V Parsun Electric O/B without the boat and trailer for $1799. The whole package (boat + trailer + E O/B ) is $3199.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In electricboats@..., "edzpan" <edzpan@...> wrote:
Up for sale is an environment friendly green electric boat perfected for fresh water fishing, hunting, and family pleasures. It comes with a brand new 48V electric outboard, so that it can run at high speed at reservoirs, lakes, and rivers, where gas motors are prohibited. The boat is overall in GREAT condition, running like a charm, as can be seen in the actual pictures attached below. In more details, it is a 15?? ALUMCRAFT bass tracker, which comes with the trailer, the Parsun 48V ELECTRIC OUTBOARD, bow mount Minn Kota trolling motor, remote throttle control, electric start keys, steering console with meters and switches, Lawrence fishing finder, live well with circulating pump, bilge pump, three driving seats, two fishing seats, built-in cooler, lights, fully decked with carpet, and tons of storage. With this boat, you can get to hot fishing spots in large fresh water bodies quickly, such as at Liberty reservoir, Loch Raven, Pretty Boy, and Triadelphia. With this boat, you can go fishing, crabbing, or tournament tomorrow.
The new Parsun electric outboard with remote throttle control and steering has been installed on the boat, and tested. It is designed for 48 VDC battery systems. It provides 90 amps of continuous current and 3.0Kw output power. The unit has a 5 step painting process to prevent corrosion. It can be used in Salt Water when you follow the directions in the manual. A comparable Ray Electric Outboard typically costs $5,000 ~ $6,000 just for the motor itself. The Parsun outboard powers the boat like the Ray, except it runs much more quietly, without producing the high-pitch noise like Ray does at all. We are talking about spending half of the Ray price and getting the whole package instead, including boat, trailer, and everything else.
The boat trailer is also in good shape. It comes with everything you need to easily load and unload the boat. The guides on the trailer automatically align the boat on the right position when you pull the trailer and boat out of the water. The trailer takes a 1-7/8 ball.
Both the boat and the trailer will come with the Maryland State paper. I will also toss in a boat cover, rolling pedal, life vest, etc.
For pictures of the boat, motor, etc., take a look at this link:
Please call Ed at 410-491-5538.
|
Green Electric boat for sale --- 15' Alumcraft with 48V Electric O/B and trailer
Up for sale is an environment friendly green electric boat perfected for fresh water fishing, hunting, and family pleasures. It comes with a brand new 48V electric outboard, so that it can run at high speed at reservoirs, lakes, and rivers, where gas motors are prohibited. The boat is overall in GREAT condition, running like a charm, as can be seen in the actual pictures attached below. In more details, it is a 15?? ALUMCRAFT bass tracker, which comes with the trailer, the Parsun 48V ELECTRIC OUTBOARD, bow mount Minn Kota trolling motor, remote throttle control, electric start keys, steering console with meters and switches, Lawrence fishing finder, live well with circulating pump, bilge pump, three driving seats, two fishing seats, built-in cooler, lights, fully decked with carpet, and tons of storage. With this boat, you can get to hot fishing spots in large fresh water bodies quickly, such as at Liberty reservoir, Loch Raven, Pretty Boy, and Triadelphia. With this boat, you can go fishing, crabbing, or tournament tomorrow.
The new Parsun electric outboard with remote throttle control and steering has been installed on the boat, and tested. It is designed for 48 VDC battery systems. It provides 90 amps of continuous current and 3.0Kw output power. The unit has a 5 step painting process to prevent corrosion. It can be used in Salt Water when you follow the directions in the manual. A comparable Ray Electric Outboard typically costs $5,000 ~ $6,000 just for the motor itself. The Parsun outboard powers the boat like the Ray, except it runs much more quietly, without producing the high-pitch noise like Ray does at all. We are talking about spending half of the Ray price and getting the whole package instead, including boat, trailer, and everything else.
The boat trailer is also in good shape. It comes with everything you need to easily load and unload the boat. The guides on the trailer automatically align the boat on the right position when you pull the trailer and boat out of the water. The trailer takes a 1-7/8 ball.
Both the boat and the trailer will come with the Maryland State paper. I will also toss in a boat cover, rolling pedal, life vest, etc.
For pictures of the boat, motor, etc., take a look at this link:
Please call Ed at 410-491-5538.
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Re: [Electric Boats] Zebra Battery - molten sodium aluminumchloride (NaAlCl4),
Clearly you are correct .. hence the statement "They seem suitable for a boat with a constant charge source (wind/solar/shore power)."
They have to be kept hot and will shut down after 3-4 days without added power.
I was more interested to see if anyone had any practical experience with them, and if there was any data on pricing. If they are in active use in production EVs, they must have some advantages.
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--- In electricboats@..., Matthew Geier <matthew@...> wrote:
On 17/11/10 11:21, Galstaf wrote:
Sodium aluminumchloride (245 Celsius) are already in use in some electric vehicles in Europe (see ) .. has anyone heard anything about them in the States or perhaps got any idea about reliability or pricing.
They seem suitable for a boat with a constant charge source (wind/solar/shore power).
Thoughts or comments?
How to you 'cold start' if on a boat and you have let the system cool
down ?. You need an alternative power source to get the system running
again, which if anchored in a remote bay some where, plugging into the
'grid' to kick start the system will not be an option.
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Re: [Electric Boats] Zebra Battery - molten sodium aluminumchloride (NaAlCl4),
Molten sodium, with a ceramic separator, might just be the ultimate in dangerous energy storage for a boat. I would rather go nuclear... Liquid sodium batteries are currently in use for utility power demand leveling in Japan, where the complex system can be monitored and maintained "safely". These batteries require heating during resting and low power output, and cooling during medium and high output. If they cool down, they cannot be discharged. If they over-heat, they'll burst their separators and drip liquid metal. Ever see sodium touch water. Check it out on YouTube. Better crank down that stuffing box nut an extra turn. Be Safe, Arby
From: Matthew Geier
To: electricboats@...
Sent: Tue, November 16, 2010 10:22:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Zebra Battery - molten sodium aluminumchloride (NaAlCl4),
?
On 17/11/10 11:21, Galstaf wrote:
>
> Sodium aluminumchloride (245 Celsius) are already in use in some electric vehicles in Europe (see ) .. has anyone heard anything about them in the States or perhaps got any idea about reliability or pricing.
> They seem suitable for a boat with a constant charge source (wind/solar/shore power).
>
> Thoughts or comments?
>
How to you 'cold start' if on a boat and you have let the system cool
down ?. You need an alternative power source to get the system running
again, which if anchored in a remote bay some where, plugging into the
'grid' to kick start the system will not be an option.
|
Re: [Electric Boats] Zebra Battery - molten sodium aluminumchloride (NaAlCl4),
On 17/11/10 11:21, Galstaf wrote:
Sodium aluminumchloride (245 Celsius) are already in use in some electric vehicles in Europe (see ) .. has anyone heard anything about them in the States or perhaps got any idea about reliability or pricing.
They seem suitable for a boat with a constant charge source (wind/solar/shore power).
Thoughts or comments?
How to you 'cold start' if on a boat and you have let the system cool down ?. You need an alternative power source to get the system running again, which if anchored in a remote bay some where, plugging into the 'grid' to kick start the system will not be an option.
|
Re: [Electric Boats] Picking batteries - NiFe
Nickel Iron does not sulfate, The fill lines are above the plates and
the orientation can eliminate any possable exposure to the air.
Kevin Pemberton
On 11/16/2010 03:52 PM, Capt. Mike wrote:
I tend to agree with Miles and Matthew on using some type of lead
acid batteries. AGM's make the most sense for my needs. But, I do find
the discussions here very informative no matter what the type. Since I
am also working on some energy projects at my house too. As I said
AGM's are my choice. But, I wonder about flooded and nickel iron
battery use on a monohull sailboat. While under sail such a boat may be
healed over under sail for a long time. I wonder if there is a danger
the plates might be exposed to air (and sulfated) if they are not kept
topped up completely when sailing. Just curious.
Sent from on board BIANKA
--
Ubuntu10.04, Acer AspireOne, Virgin Mobile 3G Broadband2go.
Doesn't get any better than this!
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