Re: Two injured in Botetourt County plane crash
I thought I would recognize any experimental aircraft flying locally but that one doesn't look familiar.
Looks to be an experimental but doesn¡¯t look familiar. Thoughts and prayers for those airlifted from the accident.
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Two injured in Botetourt County plane crash
Looks to be an experimental but doesn¡¯t look familiar. Thoughts and prayers for those airlifted from the accident.
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Thanks Mike
You provided me quite a bit of insight and directed me to ¡°the horse¡¯s mouth¡± so to speak. I appreciate it.
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In reference to the discussion on cell phone usage to call ATC. The AIM first couple of paragraph's sums it up pretty well.
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In reference to the discussion on cell phone usage to call ATC. The AIM first couple of paragraph's sums it up pretty well.
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Two©\way Radio Communications Failure
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It is virtually impossible to provide regulations and procedures applicable to all possible situations associated with two©\way radio communications failure. During two©\way radio communications failure, when confronted by a situation not covered in the regulation, pilots are expected to exercise good judgment in whatever action they elect to take. Should the situation so dictate they should not be reluctant to use the emergency action contained in 14?CFR Section 91.3(b).
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Whether two©\way communications failure constitutes an emergency depends on the circumstances, and in any event, it is a determination made by the pilot. 14?CFR Section 91.3(b) authorizes a pilot to deviate from any rule in Subparts A and B to the extent required to meet an emergency.
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In the event of two©\way radio communications failure, ATC service will be provided on the basis that the pilot is operating in accordance with 14?CFR Section 91.185. A pilot experiencing two©\way communications failure should (unless emergency authority is exercised) comply with 14?CFR Section?91.185 quoted below:
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General.?Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each pilot who has two©\way radio communications failure when operating under IFR must comply with the rules of this section.
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VFR conditions.?If the failure occurs in VFR conditions, or if VFR conditions are encountered after the failure, each pilot must continue the flight under VFR and land as soon as practicable.
NOTE-
This procedure also applies when two©\way radio failure occurs while operating in Class A airspace. The primary objective of this provision in 14?CFR Section?91.185 is to preclude extended IFR operation by these aircraft within the ATC system. Pilots should recognize that operation under these conditions may unnecessarily as well as adversely affect other users of the airspace, since ATC may be required to reroute or delay other users in order to protect the failure aircraft. However, it is not intended that the requirement to ¡°land as soon as practicable¡± be construed to mean ¡°as soon as possible.¡± Pilots retain the prerogative of exercising their best judgment and are not required to land at an unauthorized airport, at an airport unsuitable for the type of aircraft flown, or to land only minutes short of their intended destination.
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I remember back when redundancy meant bringing two microphones as we only had a speaker and no headset. I was also amazed when I bought my first airplane, a Luscombe that the 40-year-old microphone still worked. Many
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things have changed over the years (hearing loss). Headsets now are nearly miracles in noisy airplanes. Instructors no longer have to yell because of voice activated intercoms. The more complex and the more stuff, the more chance of
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failure. Headset mic¡¯s, jacks and the headset itself are prone to use and abuse. PTT switches fail as well as solder joints. Sometimes the radio vibrates out of the frame just enough to quit. I¡¯ll bet hardly anybody has a backup
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microphone in their plane anymore.
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So today I called the tower to ask a question and Holy-Moley, the person that answered was in fact working approach control. The budget probably doesn¡¯t allow for a secretary anymore. BTW the KROA number is 540-523-8202 just in
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case. Since I really needed to talk to the tower manager, he looked up the correct number.
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Now, I would find it impossible to understand anybody talking on a cellphone in a noisy airplane, but on Bluetooth through a headset would actually work. In fact, the Bluetooth is so good that I could listen to my android device play
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songs then the song would pause when ATC chimed in allowing me to talk to ATC then resume playing the song after we were done. WOW now my solo flights just got better.
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Now if the FAA ever knew that we were actually having fun then they would make it illegal (kidding). But Ron does have a valid point and using whatever means you have to complete a flight. But what if you are on the ground and take
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off knowing you had no radios to fly to an airspace that needs two-way communication. That would be questionable. Just be aware a diversion to an alternate may be necessary.
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As Forest Gump would say ¡°That¡¯s all I¡¯ve got to say about that¡±
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I contacted IFlyGPS regarding their notam depiction. Received a quick response which said you have to read the notams now listed under airport info but in an upcoming release important notams like runway closures will display on the map page or under airport info-it will be prominently displayed.
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I have a hand held radio for sale at a reduced?price if someone needs it. I can bring it to the next EAA 646 meeting. Ed Huntley?
On Thu, Aug 29, 2024, 11:50 AM Rick Cathcart via <rikcathcart= [email protected]> wrote: Hi All, I¡¯m not a member of the chapter but attended one meeting at the hangar. I¡¯m a CFI and an Airline Pilot. My 2 cents¡.. Aviation isn¡¯t cheap¡. Most homebuilts have one radio¡. My one flying has one, my one under construction will have same. But as far as using a cellphone as a backup???? No. Handheld portable radios have come down in price (and in capability) where it¡¯s a good investment to carry THAT as a back up, not a cellphone¡. Watching this long back and forth email finally said ok gotta inject the obvious. Buy a portable radio for a backup.
Rik Cathcart? Zenith 650/ 750 STOL ? Good Topic
Ron,
?Your question is it legal? The answer is well above my paygrade. The rules are to enter class C airspace two-way radio communication must be established. In your case you used your cell phone to do this and it worked at KROA. At least the one time. Fortunately, you got your main radio fixed. Did you squawk 7600? Should my cell phone be my only backup? Seems logical, everybody has one, needs to stay charged, signals have become more reliable. Last resort probably yes if that is the plan. Is that a good plan? Should I be flying with my cell phone ON all the time? Should I be taking calls while in the air as PIC? Should I ask ground control for a place to stop taxing so I can make calls. We've done it at the Airlines before. So I'd say it's not illegal until you get caught and somebody like Jack Smith is the prosecutor.
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Additionally, procedure states two way radio communications. Problem is you have to go through class C airspace to get to the tower. Tower only airport, no problem, ie KLYH. The AIM has all the radio failure procedures. I'm not going to repeat here, that will be for your research.
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Class C Airspace
- Definition.?Generally, that airspace from the surface to 4,000 feet above the airport elevation (charted in MSL) surrounding those airports that have an operational control tower, are serviced by a radar approach control, and that have a certain number of IFR operations or passenger enplanements. Although the configuration of each Class C airspace area is individually tailored, the airspace usually consists of a 5 NM radius core surface area that extends from the surface up to 4,000 feet above the airport elevation, and a 10 NM radius shelf area that extends no lower than 1,200?feet up to 4,000 feet above the airport elevation.
- Charts.?Class C airspace is charted on Sectional Charts, IFR En Route Low Altitude, and Terminal Area Charts where appropriate.
- Operating Rules and Pilot/Equipment Requirements:
- Pilot Certification.?No specific certification required.
- Equipment.
- Two©\way radio; and
- Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, an operable radar beacon transponder with automatic altitude reporting capability and operable??Out equipment.
NOTE-
See paragraph?, Transponder and??Out Operation, subparagraph??for Mode C transponder/??requirements for operating above Class C airspace.
- Arrival or Through Flight Entry Requirements.?Two©\way radio communication must be established with the ATC facility providing ATC services prior to entry and thereafter maintain those communications while in Class C airspace. Pilots of arriving aircraft should contact the Class C airspace ATC facility on the publicized frequency and give their position, altitude, radar beacon code, destination, and request Class C service. Radio contact should be initiated far enough from the Class C airspace boundary to preclude entering Class C airspace before two©\way radio communications are established.
NOTE-
- If the controller responds to a radio call with, ¡°(aircraft callsign) standby,¡± radio communications have been established and the pilot can enter the Class C airspace.
- If workload or traffic conditions prevent immediate provision of Class C services, the controller will inform the pilot to remain outside the Class C airspace until conditions permit the services to be provided.
- It is important to understand that if the controller responds to the initial radio call without using the aircraft identification, radio communications have not been established and the pilot may not enter the Class C airspace.
- Class C airspace areas have a procedural Outer Area. Normally this area is 20 NM from the primary Class C airspace airport. Its vertical limit extends from the lower limits of radio/radar coverage up to the ceiling of the approach control's delegated airspace, excluding the Class C airspace itself, and other airspace as appropriate. (This outer area is not charted.)
- Pilots approaching an airport with Class C service should be aware that if they descend below the base altitude of the 5 to 10 mile shelf during an instrument or visual approach, they may encounter non-transponder/non-ADS-B VFR aircraft.
EXAMPLE-
- [Aircraft callsign] ¡°remain outside the Class Charlie airspace and standby.¡±
- ¡°Aircraft calling Dulles approach control, standby.¡±
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Best,
Mike
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Mike:? Thank you for chiming in on this topic, I/we always appreciate your insight and experience.
I try to follow the rules, however, when necessary I pull out all stops to safely get the airplane to the ground.? RULE #1, "always fly the plane!"? Fortunately I was already cleared to enter and had entered the "C" space on my last com failure. I do now carry a portable as a back-up com radio.? The issue becomes connecting said portable to my pilot head set and to my outside com antenna while flying alone in my airplane.? A quick telephone call to the tower from the cell phone (I always attempt to remember to configure the phone blue tooth to the BOSE pilot head set while obtaining the ATIS during pre-flight) is far simpler and safer given the process of switching and configuring the portable.? ? As "Frank" already iterated, telephone cell signal is NOT guaranteed .? If I encounter the failure while on the ground, prior to attempting a return flight to KROA the choice is obvious.? ?The telephone is still an option while connected to the portable,should II need to rely on it.? An extra layer of redundancy is a good measure of safety.? I also try to remember that? "a good pilot always uses all available information and resources."
Again My two cents worth.
Thanks again, Ron M
Good Topic
Ron,
?Your question is it legal? The answer is well above my paygrade. The rules are to enter class C airspace two-way radio communication must be established. In your case you used your cell phone to do this and it worked at KROA. At least the one time. Fortunately, you got your main radio fixed. Did you squawk 7600? Should my cell phone be my only backup? Seems logical, everybody has one, needs to stay charged, signals have become more reliable. Last resort probably yes if that is the plan. Is that a good plan? Should I be flying with my cell phone ON all the time? Should I be taking calls while in the air as PIC? Should I ask ground control for a place to stop taxing so I can make calls. We've done it at the Airlines before. So I'd say it's not illegal until you get caught and somebody like Jack Smith is the prosecutor.
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Additionally, procedure states two way radio communications. Problem is you have to go through class C airspace to get to the tower. Tower only airport, no problem, ie KLYH. The AIM has all the radio failure procedures. I'm not going to repeat here, that will be for your research.
?
?
Class C Airspace
- Definition.?Generally, that airspace from the surface to 4,000 feet above the airport elevation (charted in MSL) surrounding those airports that have an operational control tower, are serviced by a radar approach control, and that have a certain number of IFR operations or passenger enplanements. Although the configuration of each Class C airspace area is individually tailored, the airspace usually consists of a 5 NM radius core surface area that extends from the surface up to 4,000 feet above the airport elevation, and a 10 NM radius shelf area that extends no lower than 1,200?feet up to 4,000 feet above the airport elevation.
- Charts.?Class C airspace is charted on Sectional Charts, IFR En Route Low Altitude, and Terminal Area Charts where appropriate.
- Operating Rules and Pilot/Equipment Requirements:
- Pilot Certification.?No specific certification required.
- Equipment.
- Two©\way radio; and
- Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, an operable radar beacon transponder with automatic altitude reporting capability and operable??Out equipment.
NOTE-
See paragraph?, Transponder and??Out Operation, subparagraph??for Mode C transponder/??requirements for operating above Class C airspace.
- Arrival or Through Flight Entry Requirements.?Two©\way radio communication must be established with the ATC facility providing ATC services prior to entry and thereafter maintain those communications while in Class C airspace. Pilots of arriving aircraft should contact the Class C airspace ATC facility on the publicized frequency and give their position, altitude, radar beacon code, destination, and request Class C service. Radio contact should be initiated far enough from the Class C airspace boundary to preclude entering Class C airspace before two©\way radio communications are established.
NOTE-
- If the controller responds to a radio call with, ¡°(aircraft callsign) standby,¡± radio communications have been established and the pilot can enter the Class C airspace.
- If workload or traffic conditions prevent immediate provision of Class C services, the controller will inform the pilot to remain outside the Class C airspace until conditions permit the services to be provided.
- It is important to understand that if the controller responds to the initial radio call without using the aircraft identification, radio communications have not been established and the pilot may not enter the Class C airspace.
- Class C airspace areas have a procedural Outer Area. Normally this area is 20 NM from the primary Class C airspace airport. Its vertical limit extends from the lower limits of radio/radar coverage up to the ceiling of the approach control's delegated airspace, excluding the Class C airspace itself, and other airspace as appropriate. (This outer area is not charted.)
- Pilots approaching an airport with Class C service should be aware that if they descend below the base altitude of the 5 to 10 mile shelf during an instrument or visual approach, they may encounter non-transponder/non-ADS-B VFR aircraft.
EXAMPLE-
- [Aircraft callsign] ¡°remain outside the Class Charlie airspace and standby.¡±
- ¡°Aircraft calling Dulles approach control, standby.¡±
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Best,
Mike
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Hi All, I¡¯m not a member of the chapter but attended one meeting at the hangar. I¡¯m a CFI and an Airline Pilot. My 2 cents¡.. Aviation isn¡¯t cheap¡. Most homebuilts have one radio¡. My one flying has one, my one under construction will have same. But as far as using a cellphone as a backup???? No. Handheld portable radios have come down in price (and in capability) where it¡¯s a good investment to carry THAT as a back up, not a cellphone¡. Watching this long back and forth email finally said ok gotta inject the obvious. Buy a portable radio for a backup.
Rik Cathcart? Zenith 650/ 750 STOL
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Show quoted text
On Aug 29, 2024, at 10:21, Mike Brown <adrifter2@...> wrote:
? Good Topic
Ron,
?Your question is it legal? The answer is well above my paygrade. The rules are to enter class C airspace two-way radio communication must be established. In your case you used your cell phone to do this and it worked at KROA. At least the one time. Fortunately, you got your main radio fixed. Did you squawk 7600? Should my cell phone be my only backup? Seems logical, everybody has one, needs to stay charged, signals have become more reliable. Last resort probably yes if that is the plan. Is that a good plan? Should I be flying with my cell phone ON all the time? Should I be taking calls while in the air as PIC? Should I ask ground control for a place to stop taxing so I can make calls. We've done it at the Airlines before. So I'd say it's not illegal until you get caught and somebody like Jack Smith is the prosecutor.
?
Additionally, procedure states two way radio communications. Problem is you have to go through class C airspace to get to the tower. Tower only airport, no problem, ie KLYH. The AIM has all the radio failure procedures. I'm not going to repeat here, that will be for your research.
?
?
Class C Airspace
- Definition.?Generally, that airspace from the surface to 4,000 feet above the airport elevation (charted in MSL) surrounding those airports that have an operational control tower, are serviced by a radar approach control, and that have a certain number of IFR operations or passenger enplanements. Although the configuration of each Class C airspace area is individually tailored, the airspace usually consists of a 5 NM radius core surface area that extends from the surface up to 4,000 feet above the airport elevation, and a 10 NM radius shelf area that extends no lower than 1,200?feet up to 4,000 feet above the airport elevation.
- Charts.?Class C airspace is charted on Sectional Charts, IFR En Route Low Altitude, and Terminal Area Charts where appropriate.
- Operating Rules and Pilot/Equipment Requirements:
- Pilot Certification.?No specific certification required.
- Equipment.
- Two©\way radio; and
- Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, an operable radar beacon transponder with automatic altitude reporting capability and operable??Out equipment.
NOTE-
See paragraph?, Transponder and??Out Operation, subparagraph??for Mode C transponder/??requirements for operating above Class C airspace.
- Arrival or Through Flight Entry Requirements.?Two©\way radio communication must be established with the ATC facility providing ATC services prior to entry and thereafter maintain those communications while in Class C airspace. Pilots of arriving aircraft should contact the Class C airspace ATC facility on the publicized frequency and give their position, altitude, radar beacon code, destination, and request Class C service. Radio contact should be initiated far enough from the Class C airspace boundary to preclude entering Class C airspace before two©\way radio communications are established.
NOTE-
- If the controller responds to a radio call with, ¡°(aircraft callsign) standby,¡± radio communications have been established and the pilot can enter the Class C airspace.
- If workload or traffic conditions prevent immediate provision of Class C services, the controller will inform the pilot to remain outside the Class C airspace until conditions permit the services to be provided.
- It is important to understand that if the controller responds to the initial radio call without using the aircraft identification, radio communications have not been established and the pilot may not enter the Class C airspace.
- Class C airspace areas have a procedural Outer Area. Normally this area is 20 NM from the primary Class C airspace airport. Its vertical limit extends from the lower limits of radio/radar coverage up to the ceiling of the approach control's delegated airspace, excluding the Class C airspace itself, and other airspace as appropriate. (This outer area is not charted.)
- Pilots approaching an airport with Class C service should be aware that if they descend below the base altitude of the 5 to 10 mile shelf during an instrument or visual approach, they may encounter non-transponder/non-ADS-B VFR aircraft.
EXAMPLE-
- [Aircraft callsign] ¡°remain outside the Class Charlie airspace and standby.¡±
- ¡°Aircraft calling Dulles approach control, standby.¡±
?
Best,
Mike
|
Good Topic
Ron,
?Your question is it legal? The answer is well above my paygrade. The rules are to enter class C airspace two-way radio communication must be established. In your case you used your cell phone to do this and it worked at KROA. At least the one time. Fortunately, you got your main radio fixed. Did you squawk 7600? Should my cell phone be my only backup? Seems logical, everybody has one, needs to stay charged, signals have become more reliable. Last resort probably yes if that is the plan. Is that a good plan? Should I be flying with my cell phone ON all the time? Should I be taking calls while in the air as PIC? Should I ask ground control for a place to stop taxing so I can make calls. We've done it at the Airlines before. So I'd say it's not illegal until you get caught and somebody like Jack Smith is the prosecutor.
?
Additionally, procedure states two way radio communications. Problem is you have to go through class C airspace to get to the tower. Tower only airport, no problem, ie KLYH. The AIM has all the radio failure procedures. I'm not going to repeat here, that will be for your research.
?
?
Class C Airspace
- Definition.?Generally, that airspace from the surface to 4,000 feet above the airport elevation (charted in MSL) surrounding those airports that have an operational control tower, are serviced by a radar approach control, and that have a certain number of IFR operations or passenger enplanements. Although the configuration of each Class C airspace area is individually tailored, the airspace usually consists of a 5 NM radius core surface area that extends from the surface up to 4,000 feet above the airport elevation, and a 10 NM radius shelf area that extends no lower than 1,200?feet up to 4,000 feet above the airport elevation.
- Charts.?Class C airspace is charted on Sectional Charts, IFR En Route Low Altitude, and Terminal Area Charts where appropriate.
- Operating Rules and Pilot/Equipment Requirements:
- Pilot Certification.?No specific certification required.
- Equipment.
- Two©\way radio; and
- Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, an operable radar beacon transponder with automatic altitude reporting capability and operable??Out equipment.
NOTE-
See paragraph?, Transponder and??Out Operation, subparagraph??for Mode C transponder/??requirements for operating above Class C airspace.
- Arrival or Through Flight Entry Requirements.?Two©\way radio communication must be established with the ATC facility providing ATC services prior to entry and thereafter maintain those communications while in Class C airspace. Pilots of arriving aircraft should contact the Class C airspace ATC facility on the publicized frequency and give their position, altitude, radar beacon code, destination, and request Class C service. Radio contact should be initiated far enough from the Class C airspace boundary to preclude entering Class C airspace before two©\way radio communications are established.
NOTE-
- If the controller responds to a radio call with, ¡°(aircraft callsign) standby,¡± radio communications have been established and the pilot can enter the Class C airspace.
- If workload or traffic conditions prevent immediate provision of Class C services, the controller will inform the pilot to remain outside the Class C airspace until conditions permit the services to be provided.
- It is important to understand that if the controller responds to the initial radio call without using the aircraft identification, radio communications have not been established and the pilot may not enter the Class C airspace.
- Class C airspace areas have a procedural Outer Area. Normally this area is 20 NM from the primary Class C airspace airport. Its vertical limit extends from the lower limits of radio/radar coverage up to the ceiling of the approach control's delegated airspace, excluding the Class C airspace itself, and other airspace as appropriate. (This outer area is not charted.)
- Pilots approaching an airport with Class C service should be aware that if they descend below the base altitude of the 5 to 10 mile shelf during an instrument or visual approach, they may encounter non-transponder/non-ADS-B VFR aircraft.
EXAMPLE-
- [Aircraft callsign] ¡°remain outside the Class Charlie airspace and standby.¡±
- ¡°Aircraft calling Dulles approach control, standby.¡±
?
Best,
Mike
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Blake:? Thank you for your research on this issue.? ?Your CFI's recommendation exactly parallels my thoughts.? The safety margin is considerably augmented if the tower controller simulcasts your clearance both over the tower frequency and back to you over the telephone.? The simulcast portion of the task would be up to the controller.
We will wait to hopefully hear back from Mike Brown, he is also a CFI with considerable flight experience.? Situations like this usually benefit from several sources of information input and the collection of a multitude of experience.
Ron M
My CFI at star recommended to me, before resorting to light gun signals, to call the tower simply because it still brings back that one on one communication where there can be no mistaking what they are saying.? Blake Shaner
Personal: blakeshaner@... School: bshaner01@... CAP: Blake.Shaner@... Phone: (540)855-4331 ¡°Many of life¡¯s failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.¡± ¨C Thomas Edison
On Aug 28, 2024, at 10:45?PM, Ron Milan via groups.io <ronmilan@...> wrote:
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Thanks Mike!? The question then becomes in a VFR flight, with a com failure, in/into a class Charlie space, what woudl be the legal ruling on using a cell telephone to communicate to the tower in effort to obtain a landing clearance???
Ron M
Replying to cell phone use in this feed.
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No, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Federal Communications Commission (FCC) prohibit the use of cell phones while an aircraft is airborne due to the potential for interference with critical aircraft instruments. This includes all commercial flights and private flights operating under instrument flight rules (IFR).?
Cell phone signals could interfere with navigation instruments, radio altimeters, and overload cell towers on the ground. To comply with the regulations, you must put your device in airplane mode or disable its cellular connection before the aircraft leaves the ground. Failure to do so may result in a fine.?
?
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91.21 Portable electronic devices.
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(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft:
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(1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or
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(2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR.
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(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to¡ª
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(1) Portable voice recorders;
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(2) Hearing aids;
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(3) Heart pacemakers;
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(4) Electric shavers; or
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(5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
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(c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft.
?
?
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Do people do it? Yes it happens. Cell phones IMHO in airplanes while moving are a terrible distraction especially if your the PIC. In an emergency you are allowed to throw the regulations out the windows to meet the emergency.?
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I suppose if you're operating VFR then you would not be violating 91.21 per say.
?
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C'est la vie
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My CFI at star recommended to me, before resorting to light gun signals, to call the tower simply because it still brings back that one on one communication where there can be no mistaking what they are saying.? Blake Shaner
Personal: blakeshaner@... School: bshaner01@... CAP: Blake.Shaner@... Phone: (540)855-4331 ¡°Many of life¡¯s failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.¡± ¨C Thomas Edison
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Show quoted text
On Aug 28, 2024, at 10:45?PM, Ron Milan via groups.io <ronmilan@...> wrote:
?
Thanks Mike!? The question then becomes in a VFR flight, with a com failure, in/into a class Charlie space, what woudl be the legal ruling on using a cell telephone to communicate to the tower in effort to obtain a landing clearance???
Ron M
Replying to cell phone use in this feed.
?
No, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Federal Communications Commission (FCC) prohibit the use of cell phones while an aircraft is airborne due to the potential for interference with critical aircraft instruments. This includes all commercial flights and private flights operating under instrument flight rules (IFR).?
Cell phone signals could interfere with navigation instruments, radio altimeters, and overload cell towers on the ground. To comply with the regulations, you must put your device in airplane mode or disable its cellular connection before the aircraft leaves the ground. Failure to do so may result in a fine.?
?
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91.21 Portable electronic devices.
?
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft:
?
(1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or
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(2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR.
?
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to¡ª
?
(1) Portable voice recorders;
?
(2) Hearing aids;
?
(3) Heart pacemakers;
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(4) Electric shavers; or
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(5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
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(c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft.
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Do people do it? Yes it happens. Cell phones IMHO in airplanes while moving are a terrible distraction especially if your the PIC. In an emergency you are allowed to throw the regulations out the windows to meet the emergency.?
?
?
I suppose if you're operating VFR then you would not be violating 91.21 per say.
?
?
C'est la vie
|
Thanks Mike!? The question then becomes in a VFR flight, with a com failure, in/into a class Charlie space, what woudl be the legal ruling on using a cell telephone to communicate to the tower in effort to obtain a landing clearance???
Ron M
Replying to cell phone use in this feed.
?
No, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Federal Communications Commission (FCC) prohibit the use of cell phones while an aircraft is airborne due to the potential for interference with critical aircraft instruments. This includes all commercial flights and private flights operating under instrument flight rules (IFR).?
Cell phone signals could interfere with navigation instruments, radio altimeters, and overload cell towers on the ground. To comply with the regulations, you must put your device in airplane mode or disable its cellular connection before the aircraft leaves the ground. Failure to do so may result in a fine.?
?
?
91.21 Portable electronic devices.
?
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft:
?
(1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or
?
(2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR.
?
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to¡ª
?
(1) Portable voice recorders;
?
(2) Hearing aids;
?
(3) Heart pacemakers;
?
(4) Electric shavers; or
?
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
?
(c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft.
?
?
?
Do people do it? Yes it happens. Cell phones IMHO in airplanes while moving are a terrible distraction especially if your the PIC. In an emergency you are allowed to throw the regulations out the windows to meet the emergency.?
?
?
I suppose if you're operating VFR then you would not be violating 91.21 per say.
?
?
C'est la vie
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Thank you, Mike Brown
Paul R
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On Aug 28, 2024, at 10:25?PM, Mike Brown via groups.io <adrifter2@...> wrote:
? Replying to cell phone use in this feed.
?
No, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Federal Communications Commission (FCC) prohibit the use of cell phones while an aircraft is airborne due to the potential for interference with critical aircraft instruments. This includes all commercial flights and private flights operating under instrument flight rules (IFR).?
Cell phone signals could interfere with navigation instruments, radio altimeters, and overload cell towers on the ground. To comply with the regulations, you must put your device in airplane mode or disable its cellular connection before the aircraft leaves the ground. Failure to do so may result in a fine.?
?
?
91.21 Portable electronic devices.
?
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft:
?
(1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or
?
(2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR.
?
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to¡ª
?
(1) Portable voice recorders;
?
(2) Hearing aids;
?
(3) Heart pacemakers;
?
(4) Electric shavers; or
?
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
?
(c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft.
?
?
?
Do people do it? Yes it happens. Cell phones IMHO in airplanes while moving are a terrible distraction especially if your the PIC. In an emergency you are allowed to throw the regulations out the windows to meet the emergency.?
?
?
I suppose if you're operating VFR then you would not be violating 91.21 per say.
?
?
C'est la vie
|
Replying to cell phone use in this feed.
?
No, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Federal Communications Commission (FCC) prohibit the use of cell phones while an aircraft is airborne due to the potential for interference with critical aircraft instruments. This includes all commercial flights and private flights operating under instrument flight rules (IFR).?
Cell phone signals could interfere with navigation instruments, radio altimeters, and overload cell towers on the ground. To comply with the regulations, you must put your device in airplane mode or disable its cellular connection before the aircraft leaves the ground. Failure to do so may result in a fine.?
?
?
91.21 Portable electronic devices.
?
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft:
?
(1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or
?
(2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR.
?
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to¡ª
?
(1) Portable voice recorders;
?
(2) Hearing aids;
?
(3) Heart pacemakers;
?
(4) Electric shavers; or
?
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
?
(c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft.
?
?
?
Do people do it? Yes it happens. Cell phones IMHO in airplanes while moving are a terrible distraction especially if your the PIC. In an emergency you are allowed to throw the regulations out the windows to meet the emergency.?
?
?
I suppose if you're operating VFR then you would not be violating 91.21 per say.
?
?
C'est la vie
|
Good to know. I heard of one being sold very inexpensively ?& wanted to make sure we already had one.?
Paul R
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On Aug 28, 2024, at 5:54?PM, Lee Willis via groups.io <lwillis818@...> wrote:
?
Paul-we bought a borescope in Jan. 2022 (according to my records) and it is in the white wooden cabinet on the west side of the hangar around where Brian keeps his plane. It has keyed lock which is laying on top of the cabinet.?
On Wednesday, August 28, 2024 at 05:33:28 PM EDT, Paul Rucker <n4259b@...> wrote:
Did the chapter ever purchase a borescope?
Paul Rucker
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Re: Looking to catch a ride from MTV
I found a ride back to KROA from MTV with Brent Lambert. Thanks!
Paul R
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On Aug 28, 2024, at 11:03?AM, Paul Rucker via groups.io <n4259b@...> wrote:
? I need to fly my Bonanza back to MTV sometime in the next few days & am looking for a ride back to Roanoke. If you happen to be making a trip down there that way in your plane this week, & I can catch a ride back with you, please let me know.
Paul Rucker
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Forget I said it Ron- Trying to help you is a bit like hitting your hand on a stone wall. ?All caps is shouting in electronic messaging etiquette?
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On Aug 28, 2024, at 18:35, Ron Milan via groups.io <ronmilan@...> wrote:
?
Shouting? That may be your questionable interpretation???? I certainly did not shout, in-fact I did not speak at all.? If you are referring to the caps, if someone does not want to take the time to read the entire email, they can focus on the caps and get the gist of the message without reading the entire verbiage.? ?
Ron?
Quit shouting Ron.
we understand your dilemma. Lots of planes have a single com. ?Talk to your flight instructor about your practices. ?I was only asking if procedures have changed.
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Shouting? That may be your questionable interpretation???? I certainly did not shout, in-fact I did not speak at all.? If you are referring to the caps, if someone does not want to take the time to read the entire email, they can focus on the caps and get the gist of the message without reading the entire verbiage.? ?
Ron?
Quit shouting Ron.
we understand your dilemma. Lots of planes have a single com. ?Talk to your flight instructor about your practices. ?I was only asking if procedures have changed.
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The key is on top of the cabinet!
On Wednesday, August 28, 2024 at 05:54:06 PM EDT, LEE WILLIS <lwillis818@...> wrote:
Paul-we bought a borescope in Jan. 2022 (according to my records) and it is in the white wooden cabinet on the west side of the hangar around where Brian keeps his plane. It has keyed lock which is laying on top of the cabinet.?
On Wednesday, August 28, 2024 at 05:33:28 PM EDT, Paul Rucker <n4259b@...> wrote:
Did the chapter ever purchase a borescope?
Paul Rucker
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Paul-we bought a borescope in Jan. 2022 (according to my records) and it is in the white wooden cabinet on the west side of the hangar around where Brian keeps his plane. It has keyed lock which is laying on top of the cabinet.?
On Wednesday, August 28, 2024 at 05:33:28 PM EDT, Paul Rucker <n4259b@...> wrote:
Did the chapter ever purchase a borescope?
Paul Rucker
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