?

Hmmm... this VE1JOT-5 station is gating non-APRS traffic which Direwolf is complaining about:

? #It didn't complain about this packet for some reason but this is not an APRS formatted packet
? [0.2] EI2GYB-3>MBX,VE1JOT-5*:Mail for: W6OAV VA3HRA KO4OP UZ7HO

Maybe Direwolf 1.4 is more strict about non-APRS formatted packets that v1.3 because of it's enhanced telemetry support.? Curious, are you using any FIX_BITS settings??? If you are, there is an option to train the bit level repairs around APRS formatted strings.? If you like to see these

On 12/16/2016 06:40 AM, steve phelps kb9pvh@... [direwolf_packet] wrote:

?

Hello...

Since updating to the newest version (1.4d), ?i have been

getting telemetry error messages on decodes. ?Starting it

like this: ?[steve@localhost ~]$ direwolf -p -qd

Here is an example...

Digipeater VE1JOT-5 audio level = 33(14/13) ? [NONE] ? _||||__

[0.2] EI2GYB-3>MBX,VE1JOT-5*:Mail for: W6OAV VA3HRA KO4OP UZ7HO

[0L] KB9PVH-7>LINBPQ,VE1JOT-5,EI2GYB-7:Temp:10.4F<0x0d>Wind:SSE @ 4 mph ?<0x0d>UV: ? N/A W/m2 - Rain:0.00 in<0x0d><0x0a>

Digipeater VE1JOT-5 audio level = 31(15/14) ? [NONE] ? _||||__

[0.2] KB9PVH-7>LINBPQ,VE1JOT-5*,EI2GYB-7:Temp:10.4F<0x0d>Wind:SSE @ 4 mph ?<0x0d>UV: ? N/A W/m2 - Rain:0.00 in<0x0d><0x0a>

Error: Information part of telemetry packet must begin with "#"

VE1JOT-7 audio level = 32(14/13) ? [NONE] ? _|||||_

[0.3] VE1JOT-7>ID:NS105:VE1JOT-7 FN74pb

I am using this with LinBPQ and the data is a simple text

weather beacon from generated from my weather station

here. ?It does not seem to be creating any problems, but

i did not have the issue with the earlier version of 1.3...

73, ? --steve,kb9pvh--

p.s. ?It seems to be working fine otherwise....

?

Short answer:

Use of the "-qd" ?(quiet, don't decode as APRS) ?command line option will now suppress that error message.

The fix is now in the "dev" branch. ?Just ignore the error message until you get a newer version. ?It doesn't hurt anything.

Explanation:

When using APRS, the first character of the information part of the field is called the "data type indicator." ?

"T" indicates telemetry. ?In this case the following character should be "#". ?This message would be appropriate when using APRS. ?

However, it looks like you are using traditional packet radio. ?Here the UI frames (broadcasts, not to a particular station) can have any text without any formatting rules.

?

Hello...

Since updating to the newest version (1.4d), ?i have been

getting telemetry error messages on decodes. ?Starting it

like this: ?[steve@localhost ~]$ direwolf -p -qd

Here is an example...

Digipeater VE1JOT-5 audio level = 33(14/13) ? [NONE] ? _||||__

[0.2] EI2GYB-3>MBX,VE1JOT-5*:Mail for: W6OAV VA3HRA KO4OP UZ7HO

[0L] KB9PVH-7>LINBPQ,VE1JOT-5,EI2GYB-7:Temp:10.4F<0x0d>Wind:SSE @ 4 mph ?<0x0d>UV: ? N/A W/m2 - Rain:0.00 in<0x0d><0x0a>

Digipeater VE1JOT-5 audio level = 31(15/14) ? [NONE] ? _||||__

[0.2] KB9PVH-7>LINBPQ,VE1JOT-5*,EI2GYB-7:Temp:10.4F<0x0d>Wind:SSE @ 4 mph ?<0x0d>UV: ? N/A W/m2 - Rain:0.00 in<0x0d><0x0a>

Error: Information part of telemetry packet must begin with "#"

VE1JOT-7 audio level = 32(14/13) ? [NONE] ? _|||||_

[0.3] VE1JOT-7>ID:NS105:VE1JOT-7 FN74pb

I am using this with LinBPQ and the data is a simple text

weather beacon from generated from my weather station

here. ?It does not seem to be creating any problems, but

i did not have the issue with the earlier version of 1.3...

73, ? --steve,kb9pvh--

p.s. ?It seems to be working fine otherwise....

?

Hello...

Since updating to the newest version (1.4d), ?i have been

getting telemetry error messages on decodes. ?Starting it

like this: ?[steve@localhost ~]$ direwolf -p -qd

Here is an example...

Digipeater VE1JOT-5 audio level = 33(14/13) ? [NONE] ? _||||__

[0.2] EI2GYB-3>MBX,VE1JOT-5*:Mail for: W6OAV VA3HRA KO4OP UZ7HO

[0L] KB9PVH-7>LINBPQ,VE1JOT-5,EI2GYB-7:Temp:10.4F<0x0d>Wind:SSE @ 4 mph ?<0x0d>UV: ? N/A W/m2 - Rain:0.00 in<0x0d><0x0a>

Digipeater VE1JOT-5 audio level = 31(15/14) ? [NONE] ? _||||__

[0.2] KB9PVH-7>LINBPQ,VE1JOT-5*,EI2GYB-7:Temp:10.4F<0x0d>Wind:SSE @ 4 mph ?<0x0d>UV: ? N/A W/m2 - Rain:0.00 in<0x0d><0x0a>

Error: Information part of telemetry packet must begin with "#"

VE1JOT-7 audio level = 32(14/13) ? [NONE] ? _|||||_

[0.3] VE1JOT-7>ID:NS105:VE1JOT-7 FN74pb

I am using this with LinBPQ and the data is a simple text

weather beacon from generated from my weather station

here. ?It does not seem to be creating any problems, but

i did not have the issue with the earlier version of 1.3...

73, ? --steve,kb9pvh--

p.s. ?It seems to be working fine otherwise....

?

Hello Stan,

?

Comment:
??? Yes, this sounds like it.... I assume this could be done such that all stations could see each other's traffic, or that only net control sees it if desired that way by command/control personnel.?

DR> Without going to extra steps, NO, a classic connected session is only between the net control and a specific station.? Now with that said, it can be done using special software of TNCs.? A TNC2 TNC with a 3rd party? X1J ROM has the group chat feature called "talk" which would let everyone see each others messages.? It works well but it doesn't scale very well beyond say 10 stations.? Moving to a pure software design, there is the Converse program for Linux that does something similar to the X1J talk feature (it's very similar to IRC if you know what that is).? Linpac also has a similar feature built-in.

possible part of the vision, I think, is that these nodes would be placed in an automobile with a mag mount, and parked in a functional location during the course of the event.? So, if signal strength became an issue due to distance, mountain in the way, or whatever, another node could be deployed geographically in another automobile to create another node to hop to in between.? Periodic return to these vehicles would be done as needed to ensure no dead batteries.

DR> Though this will work, you run the risk of stranding a person's car with a dead battery.? For long operations, I always recommend dedicated batteries for the radio setup.? it might run out of battery but the car will always restart.? To keep things all charged up, consider buying something like a West Mountain PG40S to let the car charge the radio battery but isolate it when the car isn't running.? Check out my Kenwood D710 mobile installation for more details on this approach if you're interested -

Comment:
??? I believe that there are one or two members of the club that have these Kantronics TNC's, but I don't know if they would be made available for this purpose, but more importantly, I wouldn't want to be counting on it.? So that leaves me with the laptop, USB sound card and software to create these nodes.? And if one of these other TNC's come available, so much the better.

DR> Ok.. that's a sound starting point.

??? Ok, so scratch the Windows version on a node.? The nodes would be handled by the more technically savvy members anyway.? If a laptop has some version of Windows on it, a disk image can be captured and stored on an external usb hard drive for later retrieval.? From there, the laptop could be reimaged with a Linux system, and set up as a node.? Then, if the owner wanted his Windows image back on it, do so, and nothing lost.

DR> Depending on the age of the laptop, you can do one better.? Boot Linux off a USB pendrive where it would run completely off the USB pendrive and it never touches the laptop's original HD.? All of your settings can be stored on the pendrive too so the next time you boot off the USB pendrive, it's exactly where you left off!? Check out say for one example of this (this ISO a lot of other Ham Radio software pre-installed.. including Direwolf, Linpac, etc.? Very slick!? I also see he's working on version 20 so it will have even newer versions of some of those programs, etc.

Comment:

??? I suspect all are possibilities, except maybe the digipeater choice of the four you have delineated.? And I am thinking this, because it could possibly turn out that, at least some of these nodes in vehicles mentioned in above comments, may be run on handitalkies, and thus low power and shorter reliable communication path.... thus needing more nodes in between.? Bottom line, I think the packet confirmation between nodes is the most desireable, so that additional nodes may be added as needed pretty easily.

DR> Yes, this is true but I encourage you to research the term "hidden transmitter".? As you add more nodes to a frequency, some stations won't be able to hear others but at common points, the transmissions from the two station can collide, causing excessive re transmits, etc.? While using HTs will work, it's generally recommended to run radios with 10-25 watts for optimal performance.? Generally speaking, mobile radios have better receiver performance in addition to the added power.? Something to consider.

Comment:
??? Ok... maybe "dumb terminal" has more specific meaning than I understand.? Maybe PuTTy Terminal?? Or a shell console on Linux.? So, your comment about using some better software is probably where I need to be looking.? Thanks!!

DR> Yes.. Putty would fall into the dumb terminal context.? To give you a counter example, consider this Linpac screen capture -

See that lower middle line with 1:WA6YNG-5 and then empty fields for 2:, 3:, 4:, 5:, 6:, 7:, and 8:?? Each of those numbers correspond to the F1, F2, F3, etc keys on your PC keyboard and each one of those can be different CONNECTED sessions to different stations. ? Alternatively, just one session, say the F1 session can run the Converse chat room that all other stations are connected to.? It's pretty slick.

Comment:
Ok... noted.... that 99% figure is particularly exciting!!

Yes.. Raspberry Pi and other single board computers (SBCs) have really change things for projects like this.? There are a LOT of compromises with using a small computer like this (less reliable storage), slower I/O connectivity, etc. but for packet radio and many other HAM radio projects, they are perfect.

Thanks again, David.

Ok.. I've probably choked you with way too much information (I have a habit of doing that.. sorry).? It will be good stuff for you to research and as specific questions on if it's an interest to you.? Good luck with the project.


Btw.. this thread has been pretty off topic to Direwolf.? If you want to ask packet specific questions, this is a good place for it.? If you have more Raspberry Pi specific questions, consider joining which is a good place for that kind of thing (I'm on that list too).

73
--David
KI6ZHD

Hi David,
Ok.... I've done a bit more reading, and it looks like my lack of
knowledge has caused me to make the wrong statements and ask the wrong
questions toward achieving the objective.
I think it is correct that what I want to use is called "connected"
mode, using standard packet, but I have only a fuzzy fundamental
mental picture of what all that entails.
To reword my objective, now that I have a wee bit more understanding,
I think what I want to work toward getting set up is a small network
of nodes, which would only be active when deployed during an ARES
event. This network of nodes would be like what was apparently very
common back in the 90's, in that an originating station would connect
to a node, then tell that node to connect to yet another node, etc,
and finally telling the last node to connect to a specific end
station.
So, to get started on all this, we might use an old laptop computer,
with a USB sound card, and an old 2M mobile. This arrangement would
be set up with whatever software is needed to make it into a "node".
Then that whole thing be duplicated with yet another laptop, sound
card, and 2M mobile as a second "node".
With these nodes now set up, yet another laptop, sound card, and 2M
mobile would then be set up as just an operator's station. And this
is the arrangement that the more technical fellows would assist the
rank-and-file members in setting up and using whatever they already
have, while the more technical fellows would set up and maintain the
"nodes".
After some time has passed using this arrangement, whereby several
rank-and-file members are comfortable using such network, we might
move up another small step and set up those nodes to be PBBS stations
(or PBBS nodes, if that is more correct terminology).
So, if I am now making more clear statements describing the objective
(and hopefully stating them more correctly), it now appears that I
need to be looking for the following kind of software:
1) Software that makes a loptop into a node, and that will
interface with DireWolf.
And here, hopefully, one software that runs on Linux,
and another that runs on Windows.
2) Software that is just a "dumb terminal" that will interface
with DireWolf for the end users.
And again, hopefully, one that runs on Linux and
another that runs on Windows.
3) And for maybe later on, software that makes a laptop node
into a PBBS.
And finally, on down the road, as time and resources become available,
convert the nodes/PBBS's over to Raspberry Pi's.
For now, however, the hardware that we have to work with is some old
laptops, some USB sound cards, and some older 2M rigs that we would
like to assemble together to form our first packet radio network.
There are also some old TNC's availble, but I am not familiar with
what they are. However, if they could be pressed into service in a
similar manner, then all the better!!
Ok... back to my studies... but today, I gotta get some domestic
chores done, and some errands ran <yuck!>.
73's,
Stan
On 12/14/2016 06:51 PM, David Ranch dranch@...
[direwolf_packet] wrote:

Hello Stan,

In my club, we are all individuals as described in my earlier
post. We do not wish to burden members any more than absolutely
necessary, whether with technical know-how or financial
investment. For now, the idea is to try and find the most
universal, and simplest to implement, method to obtain "texting"
capability through a digipeater

So let's stop there real quick. When you say "digipeater", you are
focusing to specific AX.25 technology. Within digipeaters, there
are those on 144.390 used for APRS (usually pretty good coverage)
and then there are those used for standard packet (might not be so
common in your area). Beyond using that fixed infrastructure in
your area and again depending on your use cases, you might want to
send this data via simplex (not dependent on digipeaters) be it VHF,
HF, etc.

In a disaster situation, or practice run therefor, one of our more
technical fellows might have one, two, or more, portable
digipeaters, and position them in one or more county-wide,
temporary location(s) for the duration of the event. The idea is
for the individual rank-and-file members to be able to text among
themselves, even if they have virtually no knowledge of packet
radio, or how it works, and using whatever digital capability they
may already have, whether a nice new Kantronics top of the line,
or a 20 year old TNC, or a SignaLink USB, or whatever

Sure.. that's all very possible and it sounds like you want to
center your technology on AX.25 packet. Ok.. that will work fine!

. The idea is to try to make use, in this manner, of whatever
equipment they already have. To me, it looks like DireWolf would
be an important key, in that it works virtually the same whether
running on Windows or on Linux. So, if I understand correctly,
which very likely may not be the case!!, an external TNC could be
put into KISS mode, and then DireWolf be utilized for all the TNC
type work.

Incorrect (let me explain). You have a few potential permutations
here:
1. connect your radio to a TNC - the TNC has all the basic
digipeater or APRS tech built-in
2. connect your radio to a soundcard connected to a computer
running Direwolf (Direwolf cannot be connected to a TNC as they do
the same thing) and Direwolf does the basic digipeater or APRS tech
3. connect your radio to a soundcard connected to a computer
running Direwolf (Direwolf cannot be connected to a TNC as they do
the same thing) and some other software like YAC, Xastir, whatever
does the basic digipeater or APRS tech

In this manner, again if I got this most fundamental
understanding correct, that external TNC is then just acting as a
sound card like a SignaLink USB.

Not really.. TNCs can only do a very specific mode (1200bps Audio
FSK) with specific HDLC and AX.25 framing in hardware. Compare that
to a soundcard (Signalink) which is 100% generic and the software
running the soundcard will do whatever you want. The benefit of a
TNC is a fixed purpose and potential simplicity. The benefits of a
soundcard is flexibility, improved performance, and cost.

This new connect mode with DireWolf 1.4 sounds interesting

We should rewind here. You originally were asking to send "text
messages". Sending messages can either be:
- reliable (guaranteed to get there by the protocol itself ) -
this is the AX.25 CONNECTED mode
- reliable (ensured to get there by the application) - an example
of this is APRS's messaging modes that use ACKs
- non-reliable - messages are sent but there is no guarantee or
automatic retries
I really don't want to over-complicate the issue here but I just
want to make sure you're aware of the the options

. However, my lack of adequate knowledge is killing me once
again.

That's ok and people on this list and others are happy to help as
long as you're willing to learn!

The first version I used was installed here on Kubuntu 16.04 using
the apt-get command, but version 1.2 is the only one available
that way. Yesterday, I uninstalled that version, also using the
apt-get command. Then, I installed version 1.3 using the "make"
method, and got that working, but that was before the email about
the connect method of 1.4 was posted

Stay with 1.3 as 1.4 is very much in an early beta. You CAN get the
connected support with Direwolf 1.3 via other ways if that's the way
you want to go (vs the other ways mentioned above)

So, now, I don't know how to uninstall ver 1.3 so I can then
install ver 1.4. The apt-get method doesn't even find it, and
Google searches have not yet bailed me out. I find myself down a
rabbit hole!! I seem to stumble into many of these rabbit holes
<grin>.... oh well, it's all fun!

Unfortunately, using the "make install" method of installing code
cannot be "uninstalled" as it's not a package. As new versions of
Direwolf come along, you would just overwrite the old files with the
new ones. If you want to do things a little cleaner in the future,
you can use the "checkinstall" method to build and create a package.
I wouldn't worry about that for now.

I method have had a couple of days to study and read, hoping to
discover how to do this, but I see it is way more complex than I
had anticipated. I am running out of time to keep reading and
studying, as the holidays approach. My window of time is closing
soon, and the effort will be catch as catch can for time spent
afterward.

Well, I would encourage you to try a FEW of these solutions out if
you have the time and see which ones you like. I do promise you'll
learn a lot!

I cannot even begin to express how much I have appreciated the
patience and knowledge afforded to me with my posts here.

Glad to help and there are many other very helpful people on this
list too!
--David
KI6ZHD

Links:
------
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[8]
[9]

?

Hello Stan,

?

In my club, we are all individuals as described in my earlier post.? We do not wish to burden members any more than absolutely necessary, whether with technical know-how or financial investment.? For now, the idea is to try and find the most universal, and simplest? to implement, method to obtain "texting" capability through a digipeater

So let's stop there real quick.? When you say "digipeater", you are focusing to specific AX.25 technology.? Within digipeaters, there are those on 144.390 used for APRS (usually pretty good coverage) and then there are those used for standard packet (might not be so common in your area).? Beyond using that fixed infrastructure in your area and again depending on your use cases, you might want to send this data via simplex (not dependent on digipeaters) be it VHF, HF, etc.?

In a disaster situation, or practice run therefor, one of our more technical fellows might have one, two, or more, portable digipeaters, and position them in one or more county-wide, temporary location(s) for the duration of the event.? The idea is for the individual rank-and-file members to be able to text among themselves, even if they have virtually no knowledge of packet radio, or how it works, and using whatever digital capability they may already have, whether a nice new Kantronics top of the line, or a 20 year old TNC, or a SignaLink USB, or whatever

Sure.. that's all very possible and it sounds like you want to center your technology on AX.25 packet.? Ok.. that will work fine!

.? The idea is to try to make use, in this manner, of whatever equipment they already have.? To me, it looks like DireWolf would be an important key, in that it works virtually the same whether running on Windows or on Linux.? So, if I understand correctly, which very likely may not be the case!!, an external TNC could be put into KISS mode, and then DireWolf be utilized for all the TNC type work.

Incorrect (let me explain).? You have a few potential permutations here:

?? 1. connect your radio to a TNC - the TNC has all the basic digipeater or APRS tech built-in

?? 2. connect your radio to a soundcard connected to a computer running Direwolf (Direwolf cannot be connected to a TNC as they do the same thing) and Direwolf does the basic digipeater or APRS tech

?? 3. connect your radio to a soundcard connected to a computer running Direwolf (Direwolf cannot be connected to a TNC as they do the same thing) and some other software like YAC, Xastir, whatever does the basic digipeater or APRS tech

In this manner, again if I got this most fundamental understanding correct, that external TNC is then just acting as a sound card like a SignaLink USB.

Not really.. TNCs can only do a very specific mode (1200bps Audio FSK) with specific HDLC and AX.25 framing in hardware.? Compare that to a soundcard (Signalink) which is 100% generic and the software running the soundcard will do whatever you want.? The benefit of a TNC is a fixed purpose and potential simplicity.? The benefits of a soundcard is flexibility, improved performance, and cost.

This new connect mode with DireWolf 1.4 sounds interesting

We should rewind here.? You originally were asking to send "text messages".? Sending messages can either be:

?? - reliable (guaranteed to get there by the protocol itself ) - this is the AX.25 CONNECTED mode
?? - reliable (ensured to get there by the application) - an example of this is APRS's messaging modes that use ACKs
?? - non-reliable - messages are sent but there is no guarantee or automatic retries

I really don't want to over-complicate the issue here but I just want to make sure you're aware of the the options

.? However, my lack of adequate knowledge is killing me once again.?

That's ok and people on this list and others are happy to help as long as you're willing to learn!

The first version I used was installed here on Kubuntu 16.04 using the apt-get command, but version 1.2 is the only one available that way.? Yesterday, I uninstalled that version, also using the apt-get command.? Then, I installed version 1.3 using the "make" method, and got that working, but that was before the email about the connect method of 1.4 was posted

Stay with 1.3 as 1.4 is very much in an early beta.? You CAN get the connected support with Direwolf 1.3 via other ways if that's the way you want to go (vs the other ways mentioned above)

So, now, I don't know how to uninstall ver 1.3 so I can then install ver 1.4.? The apt-get method doesn't even find it, and Google searches have not yet bailed me out.? I find myself down a rabbit hole!!? I seem to stumble into many of these rabbit holes .... oh well, it's all fun!

Unfortunately, using the "make install" method of installing code cannot be "uninstalled" as it's not a package.? As new versions of Direwolf come along, you would just overwrite the old files with the new ones.? If you want to do things a little cleaner in the future, you can use the "checkinstall" method to build and create a package.? I wouldn't worry about that for now.

I method have had a couple of days to study and read, hoping to discover how to do this, but I see it is way more complex than I had anticipated.? I am running out of time to keep reading and studying, as the holidays approach. My window of time is closing soon, and the effort will be catch as catch can for time spent afterward.

Well, I would encourage you to try a FEW of these solutions out if you have the time and see which ones you like.? I do promise you'll learn a lot!

I cannot even begin to express how much I have appreciated the patience and knowledge afforded to me with my posts here.

Glad to help and there are many other very helpful people on this list too!

--David
KI6ZHD