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Wow Charlie, THANKS!!
Now pretty much I need to settle on the motor for Z and X.
You have probable said but how are you sensing rotation of the spindle?
Ralph --
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
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Hi, Ralph, A 600 PPR quadrature rotary shaft encoder, coupled directly to the spindle with a timing belt with a 3:1 ratio.??    -- Regards, Charlie New Jersey, USA
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BTW, just to be clear, none of this ELS design is mine. It was worked out by John Lindo and his friend Richard.? Between the two of them, they came up with a really nice implementation!? I essentially copied the mechanical design.
--
Regards,
Charlie
New Jersey, USA
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Yes, I knew that. What are you using for a controler, that was never clear from John's post.
Ralph
BTW, just to be clear, none of this ELS design is mine. It was worked out by John Lindo and his friend Richard.? Between the two of them, they came up with a really nice implementation!? I essentially copied the mechanical design.
--
Regards,
Charlie
New Jersey, USA
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
|
Ralph.
When you are closer down the line to start the ELS project then I will gladly put some more meat on the bone. I believe by memory around about December time and you will have everything in place. Surprisingly all procurements well within a hobbyists budget.. The steppers IMHO being the first things to buy, from there you can start to think about mounting them to the lathe, always a touchy feely thing is better, steppers normally come with a spec sheet and mounting hole dimensions. But not a big deal, as i will help out as required. Are you planning on X and Z axis to be controlled by a ELS system ? Cheers
John
Yes, I knew that. What are you using for a controler, that was never clear from John's post.
Ralph
BTW, just to be clear, none of this ELS design is mine. It was worked out by John Lindo and his friend Richard.? Between the two of them, they came up with a really nice implementation!? I essentially copied the mechanical design.
--
Regards,
Charlie
New Jersey, USA
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
--
John
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Hi, Ralph,
An Arduino?Mega 2560 Rev 3.
I recently emailed a friend in Australia a list of most of the items I have purchased for ELS so far, along with sources.? I can copy and paste this list for you, if you wish; just let me know.? John is right, though, that the motors and couplings are the first things, as they get mounted first.
--
Regards,
Charlie
New Jersey, USA
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Hi John, yes thank you! Of course I have two lathes (4x12 mini and 12x36 Craftsman) to do plus I want to do my Clausing 8520 mill. As late as I am getting into any machining I think I am going need a lot of help and anything I can automate? has to help. That plus my eyesight is showing it's age.
Ralph
Hi, Ralph,
An Arduino?Mega 2560 Rev 3.
I recently emailed a friend in Australia a list of most of the items I have purchased for ELS so far, along with sources.? I can copy and paste this list for you, if you wish; just let me know.? John is right, though, that the motors and couplings are the first things, as they get mounted first.
--
Regards,
Charlie
New Jersey, USA
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
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Bear in mind that the 600 line encoder was used as I had one. Ensure you check how your top spindle speed relates to the lines, ratio and max encoder revs from its specification! Typically a 600 line encoder driven at 3:1 with top rpm of 5000 should not be used on a machine that will run at 2500 rpm. Richard
On 17 August 2019 8:50:16 pm "CLevinski" <clevinski@...> wrote:
Hi, Ralph,
A 600 PPR quadrature rotary shaft encoder, coupled directly to the spindle with a timing belt with a 3:1 ratio.??
  
--
Regards,
Charlie
New Jersey, USA
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Charlie, how did you get the timing belt for the encoder on the spindle?
Ralph
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 3:45 AM Richard < edelec@...> wrote:
Bear in mind that the 600 line encoder was used as I had one. Ensure you check how your top spindle speed relates to the lines, ratio and max encoder revs from its specification! Typically a 600 line encoder driven at 3:1 with top rpm of 5000 should not be used on a machine that will run at 2500 rpm. Richard
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
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Hi Ralph. Playing catch up on e mails. Phew !!!! I used a 3:1 ratio,the 6 mm dia? encoder spindle 10T and the driver off the spindle 30 T. 2.5 mm pitch and belts accordingly. I believe Charlie procured through STP/SL? There is a some work to be considered in modifying the original lathe to accept the 30 T encoder, it becomes part of the preload spindle bearing spacers, but lets take it step by step, first procure the stepper motors, install, and we can move on after that. This first step should not impede any normal manual lathe operations during the conversions. I bought my steppers from Steppers on line,?? Nema 23 for the Z axis, Nema 17 or 23 for the X axis.your call to suit your machine. We can discuss procurement of drivers as we go along.? I am sure Richard will assist in selections.
I have stayed with the Nema 17 for the X axis, works OK and also I have space limitations ( back of the lathe to my building wall) for a Nema 23. it gets close.My workshop measures 6 feet x 6 feet, that?s it, includes a lathe, mill, pedestal grinder and off hand grinder. cupboards etc. Richard will tell you, it?s clorasephobic. LOL But if? the X slide gibs are set and working as they should, (if not modify as we have recently discussed) a Nema 17 will be OK. Pleny man enough.
John ?
Charlie, how did you get the timing belt for the encoder on the spindle?
Ralph
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 3:45 AM Richard < edelec@...> wrote:
Bear in mind that the 600 line encoder was used as I had one. Ensure you check how your top spindle speed relates to the lines, ratio and max encoder revs from its specification! Typically a 600 line encoder driven at 3:1 with top rpm of 5000 should not be used on a machine that will run at 2500 rpm. Richard
On 17 August 2019 8:50:16 pm "CLevinski" <clevinski@...> wrote:
Hi, Ralph,
A 600 PPR quadrature rotary shaft encoder, coupled directly to the spindle with a timing belt with a 3:1 ratio.??
--
Regards,
Charlie
New Jersey, USA
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
--
John
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Apologies for replying to my own post but to overcome the problem I
outlined it is possible to buy an 1800 p/r encoder E6B2-CWZ6C via
Aliexpress this unit is rated at 100Khz and 6000 rpm.
Obviously drive this at 1:1 spindle speed.
Richard
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 19/08/2019 08:45, Richard wrote: Bear in mind that the 600 line encoder was used as I had one. Ensure
you check how your top spindle speed relates to the lines, ratio and
max encoder revs from its specification! Typically a 600 line encoder
driven at 3:1 with top rpm of 5000 should not be used on a machine
that will run at 2500 rpm.
Richard
|
Thanks John, have have a lot of Nema 23 motors on hand, I do not know the specs on any of them.
If I ever get to my shop I'll start looking at mounting them. I have relatively speaking a lot of room (30' x 20') but it is crowded but I have room around my lathes and mill.
Ralph
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 3:04 PM Richard < edelec@...> wrote: Apologies for replying to my own post but to overcome the problem I
outlined it is possible to buy an 1800 p/r encoder E6B2-CWZ6C via
Aliexpress this unit is rated at 100Khz and 6000 rpm.
Obviously drive this at 1:1 spindle speed.
Richard
On 19/08/2019 08:45, Richard wrote:
> Bear in mind that the 600 line encoder was used as I had one. Ensure
> you check how your top spindle speed relates to the lines, ratio and
> max encoder revs from its specification! Typically a 600 line encoder
> driven at 3:1 with top rpm of 5000 should not be used on a machine
> that will run at 2500 rpm.
> Richard
>
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
|
Hi, Richard,
I ended up using an 600 PPR encoder that has identical specs to John's.? The mechanical speed is not an issue; maximum spindle speed with the gear reduction is 1250 RPM; at a 3:1 gear ratio, that's a maximum encoder mechanical speed of 3750 RPM.? What I was concerned about was the frequency response.? 600 PPR x 3750 RPM / 60 min/sec = 37.5 kHz, whereas this encoder is specified with a maximum frequency of 20 kHz.? Since it's already installed mechanically, I am going to stay with it for now and check how it affects ELS operation after the electronics is installed.? My alternative would probably to buy a 600 PPR encoder with a faster frequency response.
I spend 30+ years working for a German company, and one of our primary products was rotary shaft encoders.? I was involved in defining the specs needed by the product to the R&D team, writing the manuals, specification sheets, etc.? Of course, these encoders had prices in the several hundred dollar area.
--
Regards,
Charlie
New Jersey, USA
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Hi, Richard,
I ended up using an 600 PPR encoder that has identical specs to John's.? The mechanical speed is not an issue; maximum spindle speed with the gear reduction is 1250 RPM; at a 3:1 gear ratio, that's a maximum encoder mechanical speed of 3750 RPM.? What I was concerned about was the frequency response.? 600 PPR x 3750 RPM / 60 min/sec = 37.5 kHz, whereas this encoder is specified with a maximum frequency of 20 kHz.?
Wouldn¡¯t that be fixable by a larger gear on the encoder, reducing the ratio? Or would it require redoing the mount?
--? Bruce Johnson
"Wherever you go, there you are." B. Banzai, PhD
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Ralph,
Regarding my ELS purchases¡
?
I bought the encoder pulleys from SDP in Hicksville, NY.? I do not recommend them.? They are quite expensive.? I ended up paying a total of $40 in shipping for items with virtually no weight because they were broken up into three shipments.? What you need is two timing belt pulleys, one 16 tooth and the other 48 tooth, as I recall, with a 2.5 pitch.? The 16 tooth should have double-flanges; the 48 tooth does not need them, as you will make your new spindle spacers wide enough to act as flanges.? Both of these pulleys will have to be bored out; the large one to be a precision fit on the spindle, the small one a precision fit on the encoder.? When boring, then need to be held by the peak surface of the teeth; the flanges are not necessarily concentric.? I can get you more info when you are ready.? The specific pulley part numbers I bought were A 6A32M016DF0603 and A 6A32M048NF0606.? I bought three different length timing belts, but ended up using the longest one, A 6T32MF106060.
?
I bought the Arduino Mega 2560 Rev 3 board direct from the Arduino Store.? I could have bought it cheaper elsewhere, but wanted to make sure that I got the ¡°official¡± unit so it wouldn¡¯t be a problem.
?
I bought the aluminum for the motor mounts locally; you will use your own source.
?
I bought the stepper motors, which are bigger than they need to be, (especially for the cross-slide!) from Stepper Online, Model No. 23HS45-4204S.
?
I bought a via Amazon.
?
I bought three via Amazon.?
?
I bought a Signswise 600p/r Incremental Rotary Encoder Dc5-24v Wide Voltage Power Supply 6mm Shaft encoder from Amazon. ?John uses an encoder with identical specs, but I am a little more hesitant.? The maximum frequency response seems a bit limited, (see discussion with Richard above) but John has had no trouble.
?
I bought the two different sized couplers from Banggood; and .
?
For some items, I bought multiple quantities so I have spares; encoder, belt, pulleys (in case I screwed up machining them!).
I hope this helps.
-- Regards, Charlie New Jersey, USA
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Hi, Bruce,
Wouldn¡¯t that be fixable by a larger gear on the encoder, reducing the ratio? Or would it require redoing the mount?
Yes, that would reduce the maximum frequency, but at the cost of resolution.? As I am not sure how critical the resolution is to the application, I would tend to preserve the resolution.? If a lower resolution works with the rest of the ELS system, then the larger gear, as you suggest, would be a perfectly fine solution.-- Regards, Charlie New Jersey, USA
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Hi, Ralph,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 10:04 AM, Ralph Hulslander wrote:
Charlie, how did you get the timing belt for the encoder on the spindle?
I bought the spindle pulley with a much smaller bore than desired, then bored it out, holding it in soft jaws.? I first made a stepped gauge to let me know when I was getting close to the right diameter.? To position the spindle pulley, remove the original spindle bearing spacer, and turn two spacers, one for the bearing side of the pulley, and the other for the opposite side.? The outer diameter of these spacers should be the same as the tops of the pulleys.? This causes the spacers themselves to act as flanges to keep the belt on the spindle pulley.? The total length of the spacers plus the pulley width has to be the same as the original pulley so that the pulser disk for the tachometer still fits in between the "legs" of the RPM sensor.? Hopefully the pictures below will make it clear.       -- Regards, Charlie New Jersey, USA
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This looks to be one of those things that would be sooooo tempting to 3D print out of nylon, ABS, or PETG...
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Current price:?
A 6A32M016DF0603 $13.08
A 6A32M048NF0606 $13.41
I downloaded the CAD files in STEP and IGES format (attached). With the proper dimensions, an STL file can be generated for 3D printing.
[Seems like I'm having a problem with the attachments...hope they come through ok...]
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STL of the 48T pulley with 28mm bore if anyone wants to have a go at printing.
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John Lindo
