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Hey all

Just out of curiosity, I know a lot of people do like to vent on the board here (and I was once told as such), but when all of you have serious complaints about Crestron product (Smart graphics & Studio keep getting mentioned) do any of you do anything about it? Do you get your bosses to complain to Crestron - and not just calling tech support or Rich - I'm talking calls to higher ups such as Fred?

Normally I'm not inclined to drop names, but it's not like these guys are hidden.

I'm not saying that will necessarily do anything, but it seems like if enough people get their higher ups to complain en mass, maybe some change can be effected, albeit slow?

Maybe this has been done, I don't know, but just curious how you guys have been attempting to deal with the problems that we can't fix.

Hey all

Just out of curiosity, I know a lot of people do like to vent on the board here (and I was once told as such), but when all of you have serious complaints about Crestron product (Smart graphics & Studio keep getting mentioned) do any of you do anything about it? Do you get your bosses to complain to Crestron - and not just calling tech support or Rich - I'm talking calls to higher ups such as Fred?

Normally I'm not inclined to drop names, but it's not like these guys are hidden.

I'm not saying that will necessarily do anything, but it seems like if enough people get their higher ups to complain en mass, maybe some change can be effected, albeit slow?

Maybe this has been done, I don't know, but just curious how you guys have been attempting to deal with the problems that we can't fix.

It all seems to fall on deaf ears regardless of where we "vent." Believe me, I've talked to almost everyone up to the top.

Heath Volmer
Digital Domain Systems
Littleton, CO

Sent from my iTypo 4

On Aug 14, 2013, at 6:48 PM, "RobK" <fooguy89@...> wrote:

Hey all

Just out of curiosity, I know a lot of people do like to vent on the board here (and I was once told as such), but when all of you have serious complaints about Crestron product (Smart graphics & Studio keep getting mentioned) do any of you do anything about it? Do you get your bosses to complain to Crestron - and not just calling tech support or Rich - I'm talking calls to higher ups such as Fred?

Normally I'm not inclined to drop names, but it's not like these guys are hidden.

I'm not saying that will necessarily do anything, but it seems like if enough people get their higher ups to complain en mass, maybe some change can be effected, albeit slow?

Maybe this has been done, I don't know, but just curious how you guys have been attempting to deal with the problems that we can't fix.

Hey all

Just out of curiosity, I know a lot of people do like to vent on the board here (and I was once told as such), but when all of you have serious complaints about Crestron product (Smart graphics & Studio keep getting mentioned) do any of you do anything about it? Do you get your bosses to complain to Crestron - and not just calling tech support or Rich - I'm talking calls to higher ups such as Fred?

Normally I'm not inclined to drop names, but it's not like these guys are hidden.

I'm not saying that will necessarily do anything, but it seems like if enough people get their higher ups to complain en mass, maybe some change can be effected, albeit slow?

Maybe this has been done, I don't know, but just curious how you guys have been attempting to deal with the problems that we can't fix.

Hey all

Just out of curiosity, I know a lot of people do like to vent on the board here (and I was once told as such), but when all of you have serious complaints about Crestron product (Smart graphics & Studio keep getting mentioned) do any of you do anything about it? Do you get your bosses to complain to Crestron - and not just calling tech support or Rich - I'm talking calls to higher ups such as Fred?

Normally I'm not inclined to drop names, but it's not like these guys are hidden.

I'm not saying that will necessarily do anything, but it seems like if enough people get their higher ups to complain en mass, maybe some change can be effected, albeit slow?

Maybe this has been done, I don't know, but just curious how you guys have been attempting to deal with the problems that we can't fix.

Sounds like I'd better show up at Master's class this year - because none
of that feedback made it back to me.

Look, we can't do everything and we can't do it all immediately. And yes,
inertia sometimes comes into play. The bottom line is that Fred and I do
very much care what you have to say and please don't stop telling us what
you want and need.

In a lot of cases of course, everyone wants something different and so
"make a product that is this" sorts of comments are good but of course will
take the longest to gel. In other cases, there may be infrastructure shifts
that we've made (and in some cases those shifts are still looking years
down the road) and so the request is backtracking from the bigger picture.

We have made a lot of changes in engineering over the last year to improve
quality and change some of the direction - but it takes months and months
for those efforts to show up at your doorstep.

To address a few things that I've seen recently...

- I lost track of who updated the splash screens in the software
but I thought that was classic. I am sorry that it was done out of
frustration but thanks for giving me a chuckle.

- No engineering resources were harmed in updating the icons.
Frankly, I was surprised as you were to see them changed. That doesn't go
through Architecture review!

- Rebooting the TSW nightly is a stopgap. Creating an embedded
product these days is much more complicated than it was years ago and has
all sorts of operating system and supplier nuances (and legalities on
source code, etc). But we have been actively pursuing solutions for some
time now. I am a frustrated as you are that we are still doing this.

- Crestron Studio - well, I think the answer is that it isn't
ready for anybody on this forum. I'll be honest, my team doesn't use it
either. But as someone pointed out, if we don't get the feedback from
everyone here it will never be what you want. But, the database thing has
been well discussed and there is agreement that what is there is not
appropriate for what many of you are doing. So, there will be changes. But
not soon enough - that nasty priority thing again. The immediate goal it to
improve upon on the program generation aspects of the system to allow more
automatic system generation. I wouldn't call it System Builder but maybe
System Builder re-imagined, where logic is generated but not untouchable,
and customizations and mix and match code really work. Probably not of any
interest to this group, but we need it in the market as a whole.

- Meanwhile, we have been investing heavily in SIMPL Windows and
VTPro. For example, SIMPL Windows is going to be getting the automatic CED
File management that it so very sorely needs.

- And for those about to jump on why do we even have CED files, I
do have a skunk works project to try and produce at least a flat view dpad
and number pad. Haven't quite figured out the best way to release it yet.

So, while we don't necessarily share back what we've heard and what we are
doing about it, we do listen and it does cause change. Probably not as fast
as you want it and probably not everything you want but don't stop sharing.

I want Crestron to be the best that it can be. And to do that we need the
continued support of all of you. You all are a big part of what Crestron
has become and I need you to continue to do that. I know its frustrating at
times. As I lie awake at 3am staring at the ceiling I think about these
things too! But I think together we can continue to make strives and be a
mutual success.

I will see many of you at CEDIA so that you can complain in person! And I
think most of you know how to get it touch with me one way or another so
feel free.

John Pavlik
Crestron Electronics, Inc.
Director, Architecture & Design




This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it may contain
legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use
of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any reading, dissemination, distribution, copying, or other
use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited.






------------------------------------




Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers.

A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the
Database area.
Yahoo!
Groups Links

Not only are they not listening to CSP's but I try as a Consultant(also programmer) to relay things that are going on and they also fall on deaf ears. ?I'll talk to anyone who listens. ?I think they are actually sick of me.

I have been so disappointed in things of late that I actually had the chance to hit up Fred after the Consultant summit at Infocomm, Of all the things I could of talked to him about, I wanted to get my point across about dual ethernet ports needed on the DMPS series, not just Pro3. ?He was grateful of my suggestion and said the 3 series boards are getting ready for the DMPS and he will look into. ?I told him that at the very least they needed to add a cheap RX(model #DMRMC-IP-C, how do you like that?) that passed only Ethernet(I don't know if you can ever call it cheap by using up an actual video output). ?That way we could control a device with IP or go to a switch on the back side without the IT guys having a freakin' heart attack.

I am anxiously waiting to see if any of this comes to fruition.


Steve


________________________________
From: Lincoln King-Cliby <lincoln@...>
To: "'Crestron@...'" <Crestron@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 8:50 PM
Subject: RE: [Crestron] Complaints


Absolutely.

That's part of my frustration... while I haven't reached Fred level yet (because while I've _met_ Fred, I certainly don't have an actual relationship, much less one where I would feel comfortable going directly to him with everything that's "wrong") I've had conversation with _many_ others on the inside.

I don't want to provide too much detail but some of the conversations have been very productive, some have been "that's the way it is, so suck it", and some of the conversations have been frustrating because everyone involved in the conversation acknowledges there's a major issue and has possible solutions but there's too much institutional inertia to get them fixed anytime soon. In one of those key cases we, as an organization we can't even /consider/ using the tool until the issue is fixed.

In another case I have a project with a substantial amount of Crestron hardware (IIRC $60-80k at dealer cost...for a single room) at risk because the Pro3 is missing one feature the Pro2 has. I think I've calmed that client down enough for now.

I've all but given up on labs, and when I do browse over there I usually find myself wanting to throw something.


--
Lincoln King-Cliby, CTS
Commercial Market Director
Sr. Systems Architect | Crestron Certified Master Programmer (Silver)
ControlWorks Consulting, LLC
Crestron Services Provider


-----Original Message-----
From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf Of RobK
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 6:49 PM
To: Crestron@...
Subject: [Crestron] Complaints

Hey all

Just out of curiosity, I know a lot of people do like to vent on the board here (and I was once told as such), but when all of you have serious complaints about Crestron product (Smart graphics & Studio keep getting mentioned) do any of you do anything about it?? Do you get your bosses to complain to Crestron - and not just calling tech support or Rich - I'm talking calls to higher ups such as Fred?

Normally I'm not inclined to drop names, but it's not like these guys are hidden.

I'm not saying that will necessarily do anything, but it seems like if enough people get their higher ups to complain en mass, maybe some change can be effected, albeit slow?

Maybe this has been done, I don't know, but just curious how you guys have been attempting to deal with the problems that we can't fix.




------------------------------------



Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers.

A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the Database area.
Yahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------



Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers.

A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the Database area.
Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

DM != HD-Base-T spec...

Sent from my iPhone

On 2013-08-15, at 11:47 AM, "jac777888" <jchelton@...> wrote:

" I told him that at the very least they needed to add a cheap RX(model #DMRMC-IP-C, how do you like that?) that passed only Ethernet(I don't know if you can ever call it cheap by using up an actual video output). That way we could control a device with IP or go to a switch on the back side without the IT guys having a freakin' heart attack."

- You can plug any Ethernet device into a DM8G port and it will go into "Ethernet Fall Back Mode" and will behave like a normal LAN port. I havent actually tried it but it is part of the HDBase-T spec.

--- In Crestron@..., Steve Robinson <stever101010@> wrote:

Not only are they not listening to CSP's but I try as a Consultant(also programmer) to relay things that are going on and they also fall on deaf ears. I'll talk to anyone who listens. I think they are actually sick of me.

I have been so disappointed in things of late that I actually had the chance to hit up Fred after the Consultant summit at Infocomm, Of all the things I could of talked to him about, I wanted to get my point across about dual ethernet ports needed on the DMPS series, not just Pro3. He was grateful of my suggestion and said the 3 series boards are getting ready for the DMPS and he will look into. I told him that at the very least they needed to add a cheap RX(model #DMRMC-IP-C, how do you like that?) that passed only Ethernet(I don't know if you can ever call it cheap by using up an actual video output). That way we could control a device with IP or go to a switch on the back side without the IT guys having a freakin' heart attack.

I am anxiously waiting to see if any of this comes to fruition.


Steve


________________________________
From: Lincoln King-Cliby <lincoln@>
To: "'Crestron@...'" <Crestron@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 8:50 PM
Subject: RE: [Crestron] Complaints


Absolutely.

That's part of my frustration... while I haven't reached Fred level yet (because while I've _met_ Fred, I certainly don't have an actual relationship, much less one where I would feel comfortable going directly to him with everything that's "wrong") I've had conversation with _many_ others on the inside.

I don't want to provide too much detail but some of the conversations have been very productive, some have been "that's the way it is, so suck it", and some of the conversations have been frustrating because everyone involved in the conversation acknowledges there's a major issue and has possible solutions but there's too much institutional inertia to get them fixed anytime soon. In one of those key cases we, as an organization we can't even /consider/ using the tool until the issue is fixed.

In another case I have a project with a substantial amount of Crestron hardware (IIRC $60-80k at dealer cost...for a single room) at risk because the Pro3 is missing one feature the Pro2 has. I think I've calmed that client down enough for now.

I've all but given up on labs, and when I do browse over there I usually find myself wanting to throw something.


--
Lincoln King-Cliby, CTS
Commercial Market Director
Sr. Systems Architect | Crestron Certified Master Programmer (Silver)
ControlWorks Consulting, LLC
Crestron Services Provider


-----Original Message-----
From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf Of RobK
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 6:49 PM
To: Crestron@...
Subject: [Crestron] Complaints

Hey all

Just out of curiosity, I know a lot of people do like to vent on the board here (and I was once told as such), but when all of you have serious complaints about Crestron product (Smart graphics & Studio keep getting mentioned) do any of you do anything about it? Do you get your bosses to complain to Crestron - and not just calling tech support or Rich - I'm talking calls to higher ups such as Fred?

Normally I'm not inclined to drop names, but it's not like these guys are hidden.

I'm not saying that will necessarily do anything, but it seems like if enough people get their higher ups to complain en mass, maybe some change can be effected, albeit slow?

Maybe this has been done, I don't know, but just curious how you guys have been attempting to deal with the problems that we can't fix.




------------------------------------



Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers.

A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the Database area.
Yahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------



Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers.

A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the Database area.
Yahoo! Groups Links

Sounds like I'd better show up at Master's class this year - because none of that feedback made it back to me.

Look, we can't do everything and we can't do it all immediately. And yes, inertia sometimes comes into play. The bottom line is that Fred and I do very much care what you have to say and please don't stop telling us what you want and need.

In a lot of cases of course, everyone wants something different and so "make a product that is this" sorts of comments are good but of course will take the longest to gel. In other cases, there may be infrastructure shifts that we've made (and in some cases those shifts are still looking years down the road) and so the request is backtracking from the bigger picture.

We have made a lot of changes in engineering over the last year to improve quality and change some of the direction - but it takes months and months for those efforts to show up at your doorstep.

To address a few things that I've seen recently...

- I lost track of who updated the splash screens in the software but I thought that was classic. I am sorry that it was done out of frustration but thanks for giving me a chuckle.

- No engineering resources were harmed in updating the icons. Frankly, I was surprised as you were to see them changed. That doesn't go through Architecture review!

- Rebooting the TSW nightly is a stopgap. Creating an embedded product these days is much more complicated than it was years ago and has all sorts of operating system and supplier nuances (and legalities on source code, etc). But we have been actively pursuing solutions for some time now. I am a frustrated as you are that we are still doing this.

- Crestron Studio - well, I think the answer is that it isn't ready for anybody on this forum. I'll be honest, my team doesn't use it either. But as someone pointed out, if we don't get the feedback from everyone here it will never be what you want. But, the database thing has been well discussed and there is agreement that what is there is not appropriate for what many of you are doing. So, there will be changes. But not soon enough - that nasty priority thing again. The immediate goal it to improve upon on the program generation aspects of the system to allow more automatic system generation. I wouldn't call it System Builder but maybe System Builder re-imagined, where logic is generated but not untouchable, and customizations and mix and match code really work. Probably not of any interest to this group, but we need it in the market as a whole.

- Meanwhile, we have been investing heavily in SIMPL Windows and VTPro. For example, SIMPL Windows is going to be getting the automatic CED File management that it so very sorely needs.

- And for those about to jump on why do we even have CED files, I do have a skunk works project to try and produce at least a flat view dpad and number pad. Haven't quite figured out the best way to release it yet.

So, while we don't necessarily share back what we've heard and what we are doing about it, we do listen and it does cause change. Probably not as fast as you want it and probably not everything you want but don't stop sharing.

I want Crestron to be the best that it can be. And to do that we need the continued support of all of you. You all are a big part of what Crestron has become and I need you to continue to do that. I know its frustrating at times. As I lie awake at 3am staring at the ceiling I think about these things too! But I think together we can continue to make strives and be a mutual success.

I will see many of you at CEDIA so that you can complain in person! And I think most of you know how to get it touch with me one way or another so feel free.

John Pavlik
Crestron Electronics, Inc.
Director, Architecture & Design




This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading, dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited.

Sounds like I'd better show up at Master's class this year - because none of that feedback made it back to me.

Look, we can't do everything and we can't do it all immediately. And yes, inertia sometimes comes into play. The bottom line is that Fred and I do very much care what you have to say and please don't stop telling us what you want and need.

In a lot of cases of course, everyone wants something different and so "make a product that is this" sorts of comments are good but of course will take the longest to gel. In other cases, there may be infrastructure shifts that we've made (and in some cases those shifts are still looking years down the road) and so the request is backtracking from the bigger picture.

We have made a lot of changes in engineering over the last year to improve quality and change some of the direction - but it takes months and months for those efforts to show up at your doorstep.

To address a few things that I've seen recently...

- I lost track of who updated the splash screens in the software but I thought that was classic. I am sorry that it was done out of frustration but thanks for giving me a chuckle.

- No engineering resources were harmed in updating the icons. Frankly, I was surprised as you were to see them changed. That doesn't go through Architecture review!

- Rebooting the TSW nightly is a stopgap. Creating an embedded product these days is much more complicated than it was years ago and has all sorts of operating system and supplier nuances (and legalities on source code, etc). But we have been actively pursuing solutions for some time now. I am a frustrated as you are that we are still doing this.

- Crestron Studio - well, I think the answer is that it isn't ready for anybody on this forum. I'll be honest, my team doesn't use it either. But as someone pointed out, if we don't get the feedback from everyone here it will never be what you want. But, the database thing has been well discussed and there is agreement that what is there is not appropriate for what many of you are doing. So, there will be changes. But not soon enough - that nasty priority thing again. The immediate goal it to improve upon on the program generation aspects of the system to allow more automatic system generation. I wouldn't call it System Builder but maybe System Builder re-imagined, where logic is generated but not untouchable, and customizations and mix and match code really work. Probably not of any interest to this group, but we need it in the market as a whole.

- Meanwhile, we have been investing heavily in SIMPL Windows and VTPro. For example, SIMPL Windows is going to be getting the automatic CED File management that it so very sorely needs.

- And for those about to jump on why do we even have CED files, I do have a skunk works project to try and produce at least a flat view dpad and number pad. Haven't quite figured out the best way to release it yet.

So, while we don't necessarily share back what we've heard and what we are doing about it, we do listen and it does cause change. Probably not as fast as you want it and probably not everything you want but don't stop sharing.

I want Crestron to be the best that it can be. And to do that we need the continued support of all of you. You all are a big part of what Crestron has become and I need you to continue to do that. I know its frustrating at times. As I lie awake at 3am staring at the ceiling I think about these things too! But I think together we can continue to make strives and be a mutual success.

I will see many of you at CEDIA so that you can complain in person! And I think most of you know how to get it touch with me one way or another so feel free.

John Pavlik
Crestron Electronics, Inc.
Director, Architecture & Design




This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading, dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]