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Maybe I don't get the Apple thing good enough, I was under the impression that Crestron got most of the purchase and thus should be able to do a refund for something bought two months ago they'll never use...
For the record, it's not about the $99, just the principle.

--- In Crestron@..., Paul Cunningham <paul.cunningham@> wrote:

Pretty much (btw - just misquoting your "hard to explain" bit below, not being snarky). No one paid anything for the AV2 firmware because Crestron chose not to charge for it; Apple of course chooses differently. Whaddayagonnado...

-----Original Message-----
From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf Of rogiervs
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 4:21 PM
To: Crestron@...
Subject: [Crestron] Re: Crestron for iPad

That's exactly what will happen, they will install the new app, I will be able to copy my TSW programming to the iPads and they will get a refund for something I didn't get any margin on in the first place. Has nothing to do with "being bad" at explaining stuff.
How much did you pay for the AV2 firmware that enabled the Core 3 Smartobjects?

--- In Crestron@..., Paul Cunningham <paul.cunningham@> wrote:

Correct on the device count; Apple limits you to a total combination of 10 iOS devices and computers (or non-iOS iTunes instances technically) per AppleID.



It's not about "paying twice", it's about playing by Apple's rules, over which neither you nor Crestron has any control - Apple is the gatekeeper here. Like Chip said, if they already paid for iPad functionality they don't have to pay twice - they have to pay to UPGRADE the app to enable better features. Or you can just take $99 out of your bottom line if you're bad at explaining it to them.

-----Original Message-----
From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf Of rogiervs
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 1:06 PM
To: Crestron@...
Subject: [Crestron] Re: Crestron for iPad

That's not true, these 30 iPads will not be on the same Apple ID. I don't mind my customers paying $99 for the iPad app, but think that customers that have paid for iPad functionality in their system should not have to pay twice. The explanation is techy, communication to customers should always be solution driven imo.

--- In Crestron@..., "amdtech2000" <jack.kolesar@> wrote:

For $99? Hell if they have 1 iPad it is $99. If they have 30 iPads, it is $99. Sounds like a non-issue. You have a multiple factor of that invested in redesigning the panels.

Could be worse. AMX is over $700 PER DEVICE because they use a licensing system and the customer doesn't buy the app (it's free). They buy a license from YOU. That is a lot tougher to explain but is still WAY cheaper than buying an AMX/Crestron touch panel.

Jack

--- In Crestron@..., "rogiervs" <rogier@> wrote:

Hey guys, am I the only one who finds it hard to explain to my customers who bought the Mobile Pro app recently that if they want to upgrade their experience they need to purchase the upgrade for another $99?

------------------------------------



Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers.

A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the Database area.
Yahoo! Groups Links

------------------------------------



Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers.

A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the Database area.
Yahoo! Groups Links

I'd be balking too. We aren't lawyers after all.
Yes, you can program in Simpl and system builder. There is a wizard, if you
like canned stuff.
Heath Volmer
Digital Domain Systems
Littleton, CO

Sent from my iTypo 4

On Aug 14, 2013, at 1:16 PM, "Oliver" <oliver@...> wrote:

Just went to look at a system on behalf of a home inspection company. I

found a Prodigy system (Tstats, dimmers) but no main processor. The
homeowner decided not to finish it off because he balked at the $400/hour
programming costs he was quoted. No end of surprises in this business....

I never touched the stuff myself, but can you program Prodigy in Simpl or

wasn't there some dedicated wizard program for it? Composer?

OP

Pretty much (btw - just misquoting your "hard to explain" bit below, not being snarky). No one paid anything for the AV2 firmware because Crestron chose not to charge for it; Apple of course chooses differently. Whaddayagonnado...

-----Original Message-----
From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf Of rogiervs
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 4:21 PM
To: Crestron@...
Subject: [Crestron] Re: Crestron for iPad

That's exactly what will happen, they will install the new app, I will be able to copy my TSW programming to the iPads and they will get a refund for something I didn't get any margin on in the first place. Has nothing to do with "being bad" at explaining stuff.
How much did you pay for the AV2 firmware that enabled the Core 3 Smartobjects?

--- In Crestron@..., Paul Cunningham <paul.cunningham@> wrote:

Correct on the device count; Apple limits you to a total combination of 10 iOS devices and computers (or non-iOS iTunes instances technically) per AppleID.



It's not about "paying twice", it's about playing by Apple's rules, over which neither you nor Crestron has any control - Apple is the gatekeeper here. Like Chip said, if they already paid for iPad functionality they don't have to pay twice - they have to pay to UPGRADE the app to enable better features. Or you can just take $99 out of your bottom line if you're bad at explaining it to them.

-----Original Message-----
From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf Of rogiervs
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 1:06 PM
To: Crestron@...
Subject: [Crestron] Re: Crestron for iPad

That's not true, these 30 iPads will not be on the same Apple ID. I don't mind my customers paying $99 for the iPad app, but think that customers that have paid for iPad functionality in their system should not have to pay twice. The explanation is techy, communication to customers should always be solution driven imo.

--- In Crestron@..., "amdtech2000" <jack.kolesar@> wrote:

For $99? Hell if they have 1 iPad it is $99. If they have 30 iPads, it is $99. Sounds like a non-issue. You have a multiple factor of that invested in redesigning the panels.

Could be worse. AMX is over $700 PER DEVICE because they use a licensing system and the customer doesn't buy the app (it's free). They buy a license from YOU. That is a lot tougher to explain but is still WAY cheaper than buying an AMX/Crestron touch panel.

Jack

--- In Crestron@..., "rogiervs" <rogier@> wrote:

Hey guys, am I the only one who finds it hard to explain to my customers who bought the Mobile Pro app recently that if they want to upgrade their experience they need to purchase the upgrade for another $99?

------------------------------------



Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers.

A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the Database area.
Yahoo! Groups Links

------------------------------------



Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers.

A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the Database area.
Yahoo! Groups Links

Correct on the device count; Apple limits you to a total combination of 10 iOS devices and computers (or non-iOS iTunes instances technically) per AppleID.



It's not about "paying twice", it's about playing by Apple's rules, over which neither you nor Crestron has any control - Apple is the gatekeeper here. Like Chip said, if they already paid for iPad functionality they don't have to pay twice - they have to pay to UPGRADE the app to enable better features. Or you can just take $99 out of your bottom line if you're bad at explaining it to them.

-----Original Message-----
From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf Of rogiervs
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 1:06 PM
To: Crestron@...
Subject: [Crestron] Re: Crestron for iPad

That's not true, these 30 iPads will not be on the same Apple ID. I don't mind my customers paying $99 for the iPad app, but think that customers that have paid for iPad functionality in their system should not have to pay twice. The explanation is techy, communication to customers should always be solution driven imo.

--- In Crestron@..., "amdtech2000" <jack.kolesar@> wrote:

For $99? Hell if they have 1 iPad it is $99. If they have 30 iPads, it is $99. Sounds like a non-issue. You have a multiple factor of that invested in redesigning the panels.

Could be worse. AMX is over $700 PER DEVICE because they use a licensing system and the customer doesn't buy the app (it's free). They buy a license from YOU. That is a lot tougher to explain but is still WAY cheaper than buying an AMX/Crestron touch panel.

Jack

--- In Crestron@..., "rogiervs" <rogier@> wrote:

Hey guys, am I the only one who finds it hard to explain to my customers who bought the Mobile Pro app recently that if they want to upgrade their experience they need to purchase the upgrade for another $99?

------------------------------------



Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers.

A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the Database area.
Yahoo! Groups Links

Correct on the device count; Apple limits you to a total combination of 10 iOS devices and computers (or non-iOS iTunes instances technically) per AppleID.



It's not about "paying twice", it's about playing by Apple's rules, over which neither you nor Crestron has any control - Apple is the gatekeeper here. Like Chip said, if they already paid for iPad functionality they don't have to pay twice - they have to pay to UPGRADE the app to enable better features. Or you can just take $99 out of your bottom line if you're bad at explaining it to them.

-----Original Message-----
From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf Of rogiervs
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 1:06 PM
To: Crestron@...
Subject: [Crestron] Re: Crestron for iPad

That's not true, these 30 iPads will not be on the same Apple ID. I don't mind my customers paying $99 for the iPad app, but think that customers that have paid for iPad functionality in their system should not have to pay twice. The explanation is techy, communication to customers should always be solution driven imo.

--- In Crestron@..., "amdtech2000" <jack.kolesar@> wrote:

For $99? Hell if they have 1 iPad it is $99. If they have 30 iPads, it is $99. Sounds like a non-issue. You have a multiple factor of that invested in redesigning the panels.

Could be worse. AMX is over $700 PER DEVICE because they use a licensing system and the customer doesn't buy the app (it's free). They buy a license from YOU. That is a lot tougher to explain but is still WAY cheaper than buying an AMX/Crestron touch panel.

Jack

--- In Crestron@..., "rogiervs" <rogier@> wrote:

Hey guys, am I the only one who finds it hard to explain to my customers who bought the Mobile Pro app recently that if they want to upgrade their experience they need to purchase the upgrade for another $99?

------------------------------------



Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers.

A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the Database area.
Yahoo! Groups Links

Inherited a project from disgruntled employee who password protected his smw, module files. Is there any way to access the project files since management and client doesnt understand why a single update on the tp is taking a long time.


Ajish Raju

Linkedin :[url][/url]
Twitter :[url][/url]
Facebook :[url][/url]

but think that customers that have paid for iPad functionality in their system should not have to pay twice.

Send your code to touchscreenaz@... and I will fix it with bookmarks to explain.
Randy
Gold Master

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 14, 2013, at 4:38 PM, "new2crestron" <digitaleigh@...> wrote:

Cheers eagrubbs,

The process (if I have it correct) is the 1st cross is driven from the tp which then connects to my zone ecross, I then have a zone ccross and source/equip ecross if I f2, my zone ecross drives my zone ccross and the source/equip ecross. I did hope that when I did the intermediate course they would have explained xpoint better than 'It's just 1 big buffer'

I did try the way that they showed on the intermediate course and it worked fine for 1 panel, I then became stumped adding the other panels. Whatever I done on the 1st panel was being shown on the 2nd 1. How to correctly route volume control for the zone is one place that stumped me as I normally come out if the zone ecross which then drives all my logic.

--- In Crestron@..., "eagrubbs" <eagrubbs@> wrote:

Xpoints sound right to me for what you have. Buffers would be bad being that each ipad can control a different zone at the same time especially with analogs and serials. I have learned that xpoints can have a behavior that you don't want on the other panels when you land the signal on a control cross that connects to an equipment cross that does not have any connection, it reads it as low. So be careful. If you need more xpoints use them, just figure out in your head what is happening before you do it. I am talking about the control xpoints BTW.

--- In Crestron@..., "new2crestron" <digitaleigh@> wrote:

Hi All,

I am getting what feels like poor help from tech support and would like your help please. I have only ever programmed a few systems and I am learning as I go (Crestron is a side line that is a by product of what I actually do for a living (design and build TV/Satellite distribution systems)and as I own my own company I do not have the benefit of a programming team).

If ever I have come stuck and call TB I do not get any further with my issue. I have only been able to get on with the help from you guys here (again, many thanks for you help and patience). I previously posted a question about a button push delay which I am getting round to fixing (client has gone away for a bit so it is not vital at the moment) I asked TB if they could look at my code to see where I may have gone wrong and the response I got was 'it is not standard programming so we will not look at it right away and maybe able to look at it at the end of the week'(I followed the multi zone xpoint guide, tp.zone.equip) now this was on a Monday. I was under the assumption that although there are 20 some ways to get the same result in simpl, simpl is simply simpl and any tech support staff should be experianced/skilled enough to look at a program written by someone with my little experiance.

After that, I then had another issue when I added a zone and iPad to a system, called TB sent them the files and they could not replicate the fault. After sending pics and video at their request I managed to work out that the install of the app must have been corrupt because when I deleted the app and reinstalled it the fault had cleared. So I asked the guy if they way I am writing my code is correct as I do not want to pic up bad habits which I do not know about. He said that my code was complicated and over kill for the requirements. He said that xpoint is good but not always useful and can make the program bad. I asked if he could point me in the direction of a file that may assist me. He said 'do the intermediate course' which I have done and it was not that helpful as they did not cover xpoint in any depth.

Now for the above system in question, I have 4 iPads, 6 zones and 9 sources. All the iPads can control any of the zones. Now I worked out that I would need about 78 buffers to do this without xpoint (have only got 1 panel working as when I add the other panels and debug the system I get no control and all panels are acting as 1). Now if I do it with xpoint I only use 25 symbols and although it is a bit buggy, it works.

So my question is this:

What is the best way in the situation above to program the systems.

Thank you for taking the time to reading this.

DoXe

My customer bought the app like 2 months ago, me not knowing about the upgrade being a new app. I was actually waiting for the upgrade to do my final programming.
It's not like buying a new physical panel, the physical panel stays the same. You and I know the panel file is different, a customer doesn't care about that.
Next to that, a project with up to two pages can be used in the free version, any more pages and you have to pay. So my customer who buys a house full of Crestron must pay for the app, where a customer doing just one room gets it for free. What's that, a reversed incentive program?



--- In Crestron@..., "Edward J. Mana" <emana@> wrote:

The panel file is different, right?

This is no different than someone upgrading a physical panel with the exception it is several thousand cheaper.

The graphics are different and the app is different.

From a software standpoint, look at MS Office. Upgrades there are typically paid for, right?

Edward J. Mana
Technologist

Technology On Demand, Inc.

Hey guys, am I the only one who finds it hard to explain to my customers who bought the Mobile Pro app recently that if they want to upgrade their experience they need to purchase the upgrade for another $99?

For $99? Hell if they have 1 iPad it is $99. If they have 30 iPads, it is $99. Sounds like a non-issue. You have a multiple factor of that invested in redesigning the panels.

Could be worse. AMX is over $700 PER DEVICE because they use a licensing system and the customer doesn't buy the app (it's free). They buy a license from YOU. That is a lot tougher to explain but is still WAY cheaper than buying an AMX/Crestron touch panel.

Jack

--- In Crestron@..., "rogiervs" <rogier@> wrote:

Hey guys, am I the only one who finds it hard to explain to my customers who bought the Mobile Pro app recently that if they want to upgrade their experience they need to purchase the upgrade for another $99?

Inherited a project from disgruntled employee who password protected his smw, module files. Is there any way to access the project files since management and client doesnt understand why a single update on the tp is taking a long time.


Ajish Raju

Linkedin :[url][/url]
Twitter :[url][/url]
Facebook :[url][/url]

Lol. Let us know when you can ship over that "spare" processor. I don't think most people have those kicking around for testing like that.

And ironically, I've had just the opposite experience. I have a module that makes a Pro2 randomly watchdog reboot, (and even ATSG can't figure out why - it's not doing all that much) but in a CP3 it just purrs along forever.

- Chip


--- In Crestron@..., "eagrubbs" <eagrubbs@> wrote:

Load your HVAC/securty program to a spare processor and EISC back the main. That is all you have to do. LOL. I hate it when people say that because it always is a huge pain to do.

3 series are nice, but 2 series are more rock solid. I have seen some weird rebooting issues with 3 series that I have not seen with 2 series. I am not sure if it my fault or the 3 series "features." I personally don't think they recover from us doing something stupid code wise like a 2 series. They are finicky.

--- In Crestron@..., Jeremy Weatherford <jweather@> wrote:

My problems usually wind up being unexplained reboots/memory leaks for some
reason. Turning off HVAC and security control for a week to see if it
spontaneously reboots again is usually incompatible with retaining the
customer's business...


On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 8:51 AM, eagrubbs <eagrubbs@> wrote:

"TB rarely addresses programming issues in my experience except to tell me
to comment out half the program and see if the problem goes away."

Hahaha. And that was after being on the phone for an hour with them too.
Been there and learned just to figure it out, it will be faster. But you
already know that. I have learned that the more you program, you learn when
to call and when not to call TB based on the problem you are having.

BTW. How does commenting it out fix it? That is a, I have no idea what the
problem is answer.



------------------------------------




Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers.

A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the
Database area.
Yahoo!
Groups Links

--
Jeremy Weatherford


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]