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I WENT TO A LOCAL AUTO STORE WITH THE OLD SHOCKS AND THEY MATCHED
THEM UP WITH A GABRIEL GAS SHOCK THAT WAS ONLY ABOUT A 1/2 INCH
TALLER WENT IN FINE AND A MUCH BETTER RIDE . WILL LOOK AROUND AND SEE
IF I CAN FIND THE #'S MAYBE OON THE SHOCKS
CARL--- In C-Car@y..., "Mike Chancey" <evtinker@h...> wrote:

Steven Evans wrote:

What are the correct shock absorbers to use on my 76 Citi-car? I

just

realized the ones on the car bottom out with only about 3" of

travel.

No wonder it rides so rough. Any parts nos. or shock length would

be

appreciated.

Hi Steve and all,

As far as I know, the original shocks on the C-cars were Gabriel

S717-5

P9113. These were old stock from some other project, probably a

golf cart,

when they got them. I fitted Monroe 20721 shocks on my '75

Citicar, but I

did have to modify the lower loop and change the bottom mounting

bolt to

make it fit. I had also fitted may car with extended rear spring

bars to

get a bit more travel. The Monroe shock were not a perfect fit,

but close

enough. BTW, I understood the c-cars have only about 2" of wheel

travel.

Thanks,

Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'94 Dodge TEVan
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at:
My Electric Car at:
Mid-America EAA chapter at:
Join the EV List at:

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

Steven Evans wrote:

What are the correct shock absorbers to use on my 76 Citi-car? I just
realized the ones on the car bottom out with only about 3" of travel.
No wonder it rides so rough. Any parts nos. or shock length would be
appreciated.

Hi Steve and all,

As far as I know, the original shocks on the C-cars were Gabriel S717-5 P9113. These were old stock from some other project, probably a golf cart, when they got them. I fitted Monroe 20721 shocks on my '75 Citicar, but I did have to modify the lower loop and change the bottom mounting bolt to make it fit. I had also fitted may car with extended rear spring bars to get a bit more travel. The Monroe shock were not a perfect fit, but close enough. BTW, I understood the c-cars have only about 2" of wheel travel.

Thanks,

Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'94 Dodge TEVan
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at:
My Electric Car at:
Mid-America EAA chapter at:
Join the EV List at:

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

What are the correct shock absorbers to use on my 76 Citi-car? I just
realized the ones on the car bottom out with only about 3" of travel.
No wonder it rides so rough. Any parts nos. or shock length would be
appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve Evans

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
C-Car group:

How do you use your C-car?

o Daily driver
o hobby/recreational
o not currently operating


To vote, please visit the following web page:



Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
C-Car group:

If you own an EV an it is a C-car,
which kind fo you have? (check all you
have)

o Citicar
o Comutacar
o Citivan
o Comutavan
o Zzipper


To vote, please visit the following web page:



Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
C-Car group:

Do you currently own an EV?

o Yes
o No


To vote, please visit the following web page:



Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Thanks Bruce

I built a web page

to point people to your group.

Its goal is to draw people of the Sebring-Vanguard
EV heritage. Since Citi/Commuta car/van and zzipper
use common parts, your group will be invaluable as
time goes on.

The web is still developing, but is fully functional
to draw people to draw citi/commuta drivers to your group.



=====
BruceDP@... vmail: 1-800-MY-YAHOO-#-1-EVDL-Editor
EVList instructions

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

Anthony,

I can't email you the diagram since I don't have access to a scanner but if
you give me your fax number I can send you the diagrams tomorrow. My
personal email is "Inthemedia@...".

Regards,

T.C. Mann

Hello

Anybody have a source for a citicar wiring diagram? Or even a complete
service manual. I will be installing a ss speed controller would like
a diagram to help me with the changes that will need to be done.

Anthony

After first discovering that my car would not go, and smelling a
nausiating burning fiberglass smell, not to mention the sound not
unlike bacon sizzling, I discovered my motor was sick. Upon further
inspection, I came to the conclusion it was fried, and it looked like
my citicar was gonna be a big paperweight. Well, I removed the motor
and dissasembled it and found burnt brushes,a broken brushholder, and
a charred, nasty looking commutator. It looked bad, so I brought it to
the local DC motor shop to see if they could help me......after 3
weeks they said they could help me but it would cost a ton of money,
so I took back the motor and went to searching high and low and in
between for a new or better motor than what I have. This is what I
found out. GE has the drawings for that motor but essentially nothing
else (a few generic type parts is all they have)and nowhere, and I
mean nowhere is there another motor that has 16 splines on the shaft.
With this in mind, we inspected the motor again and with the help of
an electical engineer friend of ours(we call him Mr Wizard) , we took
to measuring the windings in search of a short. We lucked out.....no
shorts in the windings but what we did find was a ton of bad
connectons where the copper wires connect to the commutator. The
connections that were discovered to be bad were caused apparently by
the mechanical connection being loose with copper oxide in between.
Now, we figured tig welding would fix the connections, but could not
find a welder we were comfortable with and also afraid that the heat
would melt the mica insulators in between the commutators. After
turning the armature down and resurfacing it on the lathe, we undercut
the mica to .032 and decided the best method to reestablish a good
connection was by mechanical means. O.k. now for the part you have all
been waiting for.....how we did it. First we set the armature up on
the mill standing with the comutators upwards. Then with a special
constructed drill holder and a .062 drill we carefully drilled into
the commutator/wire junction to a depth of .125 being careful to not
get too close to the insulator (one slip too close and a short occurs
and it is all over buddy), after the hole was drilled, without moving
position on the mill we inserted a special holder that held a "pin"
that was essentially a 1/2 inch long, 16 guage piece of houshold
wire secured in its holder by a set screw. Next step, coat the wire
"pin" with a thin coat of Muratic acid to clean any oxide as it goes
in, then with the mill on high and being sure that the pin is straight
quickly insert the pin till it friction welds and snaps off. If done
perfectly, you will have a flush joint but some times they break off
either high or a bit low but they are still o.k.You can cut the high
ones with some flush cutting cutters. After doing this in all 37
commutators and placing 4 pins in each (2 pins per wire), we load
tested the armature by placing 10 amps at 12 volts across each
winding, and measured each connection and found all connections were
back to approx the 7 mv drop that we expected to find with this setup.
After re-assembly with a new brushholder and brushes, we reseated the
brushes for a perfect fit. Next step was to bench test the unit, we
strapped it down on a workmate and applied 12 volts to the motor....IT
WORKED...purred like a kitten, now time to reinstall it in the former
paperweight, now to be hopefully known as my C-car again (not those
god awful names I was calling it 3 weeks earlier). Installation was
much easier the third time around and now I get to drive......what did
I experience? Well, the jerky motion was gone.....the smell was pretty
much (just a bit lingering from the prior smoke filled incident), and
instead of 0-10 in 3 hours, it goes like 0-30 in a few seconds ALMOST
like a rocket ship. So, with the increased power and the natural
design of the car it really is like an E-Ticket ride at Disneyland
when you are going at high speeds. In conclusion, the experience was
long, tough, tedious, and not always fun, but it did work and I have
my car back. If you would like any additional information on the
things I found out or repair techniches, please feel free to email me.
Thanks for listening.

Also, I would like to thank all group members who contributed
information, thoughts and/or insights about my motor problem, it is
very much appreciated.

Anthony

Anthony,

Here is a place that looks promising for motor rebuilds and armature
repair. I haven't used them myself. But they did say that they could
find or make a field coil set for my Comuta-car.



SAH

--- In C-Car@..., "anthony luiz" <anthonyluiz@h...> wrote:

Hello Mike,

Thank you for your help in finding info. on getting my dead c-car

running

agian.

Anthony

From: "HOLLAND,MIKE (HP-USA,ex1)" <mike_holland@h...>
Reply-To: C-Car@...
To: "'C-Car@...'" <C-Car@...>,

"'anthonyluiz@h...'"

<anthonyluiz@h...>
Subject: RE: [C-Car] Citicar motor
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:55:26 -0700

Hi Anthony (and other fellow C-Car owners),

I don't know it the following will help you or not but it's from

"The

Citicar-Commutacar Service Manual" Pages 6-1 thru 6-7.

I've also attached the only illustration from this section of the

book.

Mike

-------------------------------From the
Book------------------------------------------------

The GENERAL ELECTRIC MOTOR

As of March 1, 1976, all G.E. motor repairs will be handled

through the

Authorized G.E. Repair Station in your local area.

You will be supplied with a listing of all G.E. Repair Stations.

Take or

send the motor to the nearest one to your location.

Sebring-Vanguard will pay to remove and replace the motor. G.E.

will take

care of the warranty.

You as a dealer must supply the G.E. Repair Station with the

information on

the vehicle to obtain warranty service.

You must supply;

-Vehicle serial number
-Mileage of vehicle
-Delivery date of vehicle

If you don't know the delivery date, and the customer cannot

supply the

date, call the Service Department and we can supply the delivery

date.

If the vehicle is out of warranty, the G.E. Repair station will be

glad to

quote a price on the repair for the customer.

It would be advisable to stock a motor for substitution in the

customer's

vehicle to get it on the road as soon as possible. When you

receive the

repaired motor back, put it in stock. A motor repaired by G.E.

will be

considered a new motor.

MOTOR REMOVAL - DANA AXLE ONLY

1. It would be easier to remove the motor from under the vehicle,

but

remember, it weigh 65 pounds. Raise the vehicle and support on

suitable

stands.

2. Disconnect the heater pipes from the manifold.

3. Disconnect cables and mark for later installation. Disconnect

heat lamp

wires, remove fan motor thermal switch from outside motor case, if
equipped.


4. Remove the rear heater manifold casting from motor,

5. Remove the front 4 end plate bolts and retain.

6. Slide motor back and lower out of vehicle.

7. Remove front end plate from rear axle housing and install on

motor.

8. Remove front heater manifold casting and retain.

9. Reinstall in reverse order.

ROUTINE EXAMINATION AND BRUSH REPLACEMENT

1. At 3,000 miles or six months, remove the covers over the brush

access

openings and examine the interior.

a. Make sure the brush shunts are positioned so they can move

freely down

the brush holder slot as the brush wears. Remove any obstruction

which may

have occurred since the last inspection and might cause the brush

to bind

in
its holder.

b. Check each brush for free movement in its holder and examine it

for any

wear and general condition. If a brush is broken, cracked,

severely

chipped,
or worn to a length of less than 5/8 inch measured on the short

side of the

brush, replace it. Whenever any brushes are replaced, it is good

practice

to
replace all of them. Keep extra brushes on hand. It is recommended

that

only
brushes obtained from General Electric Company be used.

c. Examine the condition of the brush springs. Make sure the

spring coils

are uniform and do not appear discolored by heat. This may have

caused a

loss of spring quality. If these or other signs of spring damage

are

evident, replace the spring. The use of a small spring scale can

be

employed
to see if the spring meets the required one pound or more force to

lift it

at the point of contact.

d. Observe the condition of the commutator and the armature coils

which may

be visible. Refer to section entitled, "Inspection of Armature"

for details

to look for, during this inspection.

2. Brush Replacement

a. With fingers or a suitable hook, lift the brush spring end up

so the

brush may slide out of its holder. Loosen the brush screw to

remove the

brush shunt terminal and remove the brush.

b. Again, lift the end of the brush spring and place the new brush

in the

holder in the same relative position as the old brush removed.

Place end of

spring in position on top of the brush. Connect the brush shunt

terminal

to
its proper crossover with the brush screw. Note that the position

of the

brush shunt is important when installing brushes. Assure

positioning to

permit the brush shunt to travel down the brush holder slot as the

brush

wears. If it hands up, commutator damage and motor failure will

result.

Install the brush like the sketch below and observe if the shunt

will

follow
down the slot with wear. Make minor adjustments to ensure the path

of

movement will be free before final tightening of the brush screw.

Also make

sure that only the insulated portion of the shunt touches the motor
endshield or is touched by the brush cover when it is reinstalled.

c. Replace the covers over the brush access openings.

3 .Cleaning At regular maintenance periods for the vehicle. Remove

the

cover
over the brush access openings and clean all foreign material,

such as dirt

and carbon dust, from the motor's interior. use dry compressed air

of

moderate pressure. Clean by suction, if possible, to avoid blowing

dirt,

carbon dust, or metal particles into the bearings and insulation.

4. When parts have worn considerably, the motor interior is very

dirty, or

other indications suggest a higher echelon of maintenance, the

motor must

be
disassembled.

NOTE: This condition could be caused by an undetected fault of

manufacture

appearing early in normal field service or it could be caused by
overloading
the motor and causing high temperature failure of connections. The
resulting
high resistance in a joint could cause this symptom appearance.

Evidence of

general overheating and accompanying flat spots would tend to

indicate

overworking of the motor.

2. If one or more armature conductors is abnormally black or

appear burned

compared with the other armature conductors, it is an indication

of a

shorted armature. It should first be blown off to clean it, then

checked

with a growler. If the short circuit is not confirmed by this

indication,

check resistance and apply a high potential test not exceeding 600

volts AC

for I minute. If the armature does not pass these tests, it should

not be

used.

NOTE: SHORT CIRCUITED COILS CAN BE CAUSED BY MANY THINGS, AS WELL

AS AN

UNDETECTED MANUFACTURING FAULT WHICH MOST LIKELY WOULD SHOW UP

EARLY IN

NORMAL SERVICE.

3. If a generally heat discolored appearance is uniformly over the
commutator or windings is observed, it is usually a sign of

overloading of

the vehicle or motor. This should be corrected or the symptoms

will be

repetitive and motors will be burned out frequently. While an

armature of

this appearance might pass checks for resistance, shorts, and high
potential, it has lost some survival ability and will not have a

normal

service life.

4. Bubbled insulation and individual brush burn marks on the

commutator is

rather a classic example of a motor armature which has been loaded

up to

stall with power applied. It promptly overheated and its elements

boiled to

quick failure. Other comments are similar to 3 above.

Generally, armatures with other than normal service wear are not
recommended
to be repaired and reused although some re-soldering of

commutators in the

field has been successfully done. Replacement is heavy duty motors

which

sometimes run at high speed under light load conditions.

5. Commutator Inspection and Care

a. Inspect the commutator during each brush inspection.

b. Commutator bars should not be pitted, burned or grooved in the

brush

track. If found in this condition, the surface should be

refinished in a

lathe, limiting the depth of cut to .055 inch or less on a side

and repeat

until smooth.

Before a final cut, the mica insulation between commutator bars

should be

undercut .032 inch. No mica slivers should be left along the sides

of the

bars above the undercut.

Next, dynamic balance the armature to within .0015 inch amplitude

at 3000

RPM. After this, the final finish cut should be made with a

diamond tool to

obtain a surface finish of 8 to 16 micro inch. The armature should

not be

put back in service with a diameter of less than 2.625 inches.

c. After refinishing a commutator, check it for eccentricity. It

should not

exceed .001 inch total indicator reading for the entire diameter

and with a

.0002 inch maximum bar-to-bar difference.

INSPECTION OF FIELD WINDINGS

If, upon inspection, the insulation on the field coils appears

blackened or

charred, the serviceability of the coils is questionable. Burned

or

scorched
coil insulation is a symptom of coil overheating due to overloads,
grounded,
or short circuited winding.

To check the windings electrically for grounds or open circuits a
continuity
tester, ground tester, and ohm meter are required.

To check for a grounded field connect the tester between terminal

studs SI

to ground and S2 to ground.

To check for an open or shorted winding: Connect the ohm meter

between S2

and Sl. The resistance should read.0138 plus or minus .0014 ohm.

BEARING INSPECTION AND CARE

1. The bearings are prelubircated with Chevron SRI-2 high

temperature

grease, or equivalent (do not use silicone grease in a DC motor),
sufficient
for the life of the bearings.

2. Check bearings by turning them with your fingers. Feel for

binding or

gritty effects and for excessive looseness or wobble. If any

defect is

apparent or if there is any doubt to serviceability of the

bearings,

replace
them with new ones.

3. Pull the old bearings with a suitable bearing puller. Press new

bearings

into place with an arbor that exerts pressure on the inner ring.

Do not use

a hammer for bearing replacement. It will damage the bearing.

REASSEMBLY

1. Set commutator endshield in place on bench with brush rigging

facing

upward.

Push each brush back up into brush holder until its end would

permit the

commutator to pass under without hitting. Adjust end of spirng so

that it

is
against side of brush and holds brush in "cocked" position.

2. Set armature, with the ball bearings already assembled, into

place in

the
endshield.

3. Push on end of each brush to release onto the commutator.

Obsereve that

brushes seat on commutator properly and that end of springs ride

on brush

tops in line with brush holder grooves. Make sure that the brush

shunt will

travel down the holder slot as the brush wears.

4. Mount the stator over the armature and position it exactly

with chisel

mark on endshield. Thread thermostat leads through the proper hole

in the

commutator endshield. Gently seat on rabbet.

5. a. The pulley endshield contains a seal whose inside lip rides

on a

highly finished surface of the shaft. If the shaft surface is

still

polished
and undamaged but the seal requires replacement then:

(1). Drive the seal from the pulley endshield with a suitable

punch and

hammer.

(2). Apply "Hanna Oil Sealer" to the mating surface before

placement of

the
oil seal (Use # 709957 oil Seal Compound - Hanna Paint Company,

Columbus,

Ohio, or equivalent). Do not allow to dry before assembly.

(3). Press seal into position with a suitable press so that its

outside

diameter is flush with the face of the endsheild surface recess

(see motor

outline). Locate seal into the pulley endshield with seal lip

spring facing

away from the bearing.

b. Position spring, spacer, and shim washers into the pulley

endshield

using
enough Chevron SRI-2 grease in the cavity to hold these parts in

place.

After suitably covering the spline of the armature shaft to

prevent damage

to the seal lip (also use bearing grease to coat seal lip and

shaft cover

surface), gently fit the end shield assembly over the shaft and

pulley end

bearing. Line up chisel marks and seat the endshield into the

stator

rabbet.


6. Be sure endshields are snugly fit in stator rabbets, then

replace clamp

screws on both ends. Check to determine that armature is free to

turn. If

it
will not turn, the parts have been assembled to cause binding.

7. Replace brush access covers

8. Make a high potential test (up to maximum of 600 volts AC for I

minute)

to assure motor has been properly reassembled.

9. If a running performance test is to be made before reinstalling

motor in

vehicle, observe caution in that this series motor will overspeed

if

voltage
is applied under no load or inadequate load conditions. Do not

apply

voltage
to the motor unless a torque load equivalent to 3-1/2 HP at

320ORPM is

first
connected to the shaft, and use only direct current battery power.

-----Original Message-----
From: anthonyluiz@h... [mailto:anthonyluiz@h...]
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 11:28 PM
To: C-Car@...
Subject: [C-Car] Citicar motor


Has anybody taken apart their citicar GE 3.5hp motor? I got my
Citicar with almost dead batteries and a jerking at low speed.

After

battery replacment the motor started to smell and the jerking got

much

more noticeable. After removing the motor and opening it up we

found

that the motor brush holder was bad and the commutator was in bad

need

of turning, and the commutator plates have different resistance
readings between adjoining plates. After looking it over,it looks

like

there was at one time a ring of some sort that put pressure on the
wires where they attach to the commutator via some set screws or
something, I think this would explain the resistance difference. On
all of the outer wires there is a small dent that looks like there

was

a bolt that pushed on it at one time. After looking around and

calling

GE I still have not found any info.Does anyone know if there is a

ring

of some kind missing. Does anyone have some knowledge or an

assembly

drawing of this motor? Can anybody help me? Any info at all would

be

helpful and very much appreciated.... want to drive my car again!

Anthony


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
C-Car-unsubscribe@...



<< GE_motor.bmp >>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

Tim, and Scott

Thanks for the VIN info. My VIN # is 1111BIC28FS000009. With the
information I have now, and my #000009 this sound like maybe 1979.
If anyone else out there could send me the last numbers and year of
their cars I would really appreciate it. This would help make a
better guess when applying for lost Title.

Thanks
Don

Anthony & C-group,
I found a web site a short while back that has a lot of information
on plastic repair, materials, and tools to do it. I bought ABS
welding rods,and a foot with a hole in it that I will put on a
100watt solder iron.
The hole in the foot is where you feed the ABS rod, and iron it into
the crack. Now I will be honest, and say I haven't tried this yet.
The instructions on the site look simple enough. Check it out.
Doing may body repairs is not to far off, and I'll let you know if it
works, or I lost around $40. The site is- www.urethanesupply.com/
They are in Alabama.

The Tool and ABS Material I ordered is as follows.

ITEM # DESCRIPTION PRICE

6027HT TUBE WELDING TIP $18.50
5003R3 ABS WHITE ROD 30ft. $11.95

After receiving this stuff may opinion is this Company is a little
expensive, but I was not able to find anything better.

Don

Hello Mike,

Thank you for your help in finding info. on getting my dead c-car running agian.

Anthony

From: "HOLLAND,MIKE (HP-USA,ex1)" <mike_holland@...>
Reply-To: C-Car@...
To: "'C-Car@...'" <C-Car@...>, "'anthonyluiz@...'" <anthonyluiz@...>
Subject: RE: [C-Car] Citicar motor
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:55:26 -0700

Hi Anthony (and other fellow C-Car owners),

I don't know it the following will help you or not but it's from "The
Citicar-Commutacar Service Manual" Pages 6-1 thru 6-7.

I've also attached the only illustration from this section of the book.

Mike

-------------------------------From the
Book------------------------------------------------

The GENERAL ELECTRIC MOTOR

As of March 1, 1976, all G.E. motor repairs will be handled through the
Authorized G.E. Repair Station in your local area.

You will be supplied with a listing of all G.E. Repair Stations. Take or
send the motor to the nearest one to your location.

Sebring-Vanguard will pay to remove and replace the motor. G.E. will take
care of the warranty.

You as a dealer must supply the G.E. Repair Station with the information on
the vehicle to obtain warranty service.

You must supply;

-Vehicle serial number
-Mileage of vehicle
-Delivery date of vehicle

If you don't know the delivery date, and the customer cannot supply the
date, call the Service Department and we can supply the delivery date.

If the vehicle is out of warranty, the G.E. Repair station will be glad to
quote a price on the repair for the customer.

It would be advisable to stock a motor for substitution in the customer's
vehicle to get it on the road as soon as possible. When you receive the
repaired motor back, put it in stock. A motor repaired by G.E. will be
considered a new motor.

MOTOR REMOVAL - DANA AXLE ONLY

1. It would be easier to remove the motor from under the vehicle, but
remember, it weigh 65 pounds. Raise the vehicle and support on suitable
stands.

2. Disconnect the heater pipes from the manifold.

3. Disconnect cables and mark for later installation. Disconnect heat lamp
wires, remove fan motor thermal switch from outside motor case, if equipped.


4. Remove the rear heater manifold casting from motor,

5. Remove the front 4 end plate bolts and retain.

6. Slide motor back and lower out of vehicle.

7. Remove front end plate from rear axle housing and install on motor.

8. Remove front heater manifold casting and retain.

9. Reinstall in reverse order.

ROUTINE EXAMINATION AND BRUSH REPLACEMENT

1. At 3,000 miles or six months, remove the covers over the brush access
openings and examine the interior.

a. Make sure the brush shunts are positioned so they can move freely down
the brush holder slot as the brush wears. Remove any obstruction which may
have occurred since the last inspection and might cause the brush to bind in
its holder.

b. Check each brush for free movement in its holder and examine it for any
wear and general condition. If a brush is broken, cracked, severely chipped,
or worn to a length of less than 5/8 inch measured on the short side of the
brush, replace it. Whenever any brushes are replaced, it is good practice to
replace all of them. Keep extra brushes on hand. It is recommended that only
brushes obtained from General Electric Company be used.

c. Examine the condition of the brush springs. Make sure the spring coils
are uniform and do not appear discolored by heat. This may have caused a
loss of spring quality. If these or other signs of spring damage are
evident, replace the spring. The use of a small spring scale can be employed
to see if the spring meets the required one pound or more force to lift it
at the point of contact.

d. Observe the condition of the commutator and the armature coils which may
be visible. Refer to section entitled, "Inspection of Armature" for details
to look for, during this inspection.

2. Brush Replacement

a. With fingers or a suitable hook, lift the brush spring end up so the
brush may slide out of its holder. Loosen the brush screw to remove the
brush shunt terminal and remove the brush.

b. Again, lift the end of the brush spring and place the new brush in the
holder in the same relative position as the old brush removed. Place end of
spring in position on top of the brush. Connect the brush shunt terminal to
its proper crossover with the brush screw. Note that the position of the
brush shunt is important when installing brushes. Assure positioning to
permit the brush shunt to travel down the brush holder slot as the brush
wears. If it hands up, commutator damage and motor failure will result.
Install the brush like the sketch below and observe if the shunt will follow
down the slot with wear. Make minor adjustments to ensure the path of
movement will be free before final tightening of the brush screw. Also make
sure that only the insulated portion of the shunt touches the motor
endshield or is touched by the brush cover when it is reinstalled.

c. Replace the covers over the brush access openings.

3 .Cleaning At regular maintenance periods for the vehicle. Remove the cover
over the brush access openings and clean all foreign material, such as dirt
and carbon dust, from the motor's interior. use dry compressed air of
moderate pressure. Clean by suction, if possible, to avoid blowing dirt,
carbon dust, or metal particles into the bearings and insulation.

4. When parts have worn considerably, the motor interior is very dirty, or
other indications suggest a higher echelon of maintenance, the motor must be
disassembled.

NOTE: This condition could be caused by an undetected fault of manufacture
appearing early in normal field service or it could be caused by overloading
the motor and causing high temperature failure of connections. The resulting
high resistance in a joint could cause this symptom appearance. Evidence of
general overheating and accompanying flat spots would tend to indicate
overworking of the motor.

2. If one or more armature conductors is abnormally black or appear burned
compared with the other armature conductors, it is an indication of a
shorted armature. It should first be blown off to clean it, then checked
with a growler. If the short circuit is not confirmed by this indication,
check resistance and apply a high potential test not exceeding 600 volts AC
for I minute. If the armature does not pass these tests, it should not be
used.

NOTE: SHORT CIRCUITED COILS CAN BE CAUSED BY MANY THINGS, AS WELL AS AN
UNDETECTED MANUFACTURING FAULT WHICH MOST LIKELY WOULD SHOW UP EARLY IN
NORMAL SERVICE.

3. If a generally heat discolored appearance is uniformly over the
commutator or windings is observed, it is usually a sign of overloading of
the vehicle or motor. This should be corrected or the symptoms will be
repetitive and motors will be burned out frequently. While an armature of
this appearance might pass checks for resistance, shorts, and high
potential, it has lost some survival ability and will not have a normal
service life.

4. Bubbled insulation and individual brush burn marks on the commutator is
rather a classic example of a motor armature which has been loaded up to
stall with power applied. It promptly overheated and its elements boiled to
quick failure. Other comments are similar to 3 above.

Generally, armatures with other than normal service wear are not recommended
to be repaired and reused although some re-soldering of commutators in the
field has been successfully done. Replacement is heavy duty motors which
sometimes run at high speed under light load conditions.

5. Commutator Inspection and Care

a. Inspect the commutator during each brush inspection.

b. Commutator bars should not be pitted, burned or grooved in the brush
track. If found in this condition, the surface should be refinished in a
lathe, limiting the depth of cut to .055 inch or less on a side and repeat
until smooth.

Before a final cut, the mica insulation between commutator bars should be
undercut .032 inch. No mica slivers should be left along the sides of the
bars above the undercut.

Next, dynamic balance the armature to within .0015 inch amplitude at 3000
RPM. After this, the final finish cut should be made with a diamond tool to
obtain a surface finish of 8 to 16 micro inch. The armature should not be
put back in service with a diameter of less than 2.625 inches.

c. After refinishing a commutator, check it for eccentricity. It should not
exceed .001 inch total indicator reading for the entire diameter and with a
.0002 inch maximum bar-to-bar difference.

INSPECTION OF FIELD WINDINGS

If, upon inspection, the insulation on the field coils appears blackened or
charred, the serviceability of the coils is questionable. Burned or scorched
coil insulation is a symptom of coil overheating due to overloads, grounded,
or short circuited winding.

To check the windings electrically for grounds or open circuits a continuity
tester, ground tester, and ohm meter are required.

To check for a grounded field connect the tester between terminal studs SI
to ground and S2 to ground.

To check for an open or shorted winding: Connect the ohm meter between S2
and Sl. The resistance should read.0138 plus or minus .0014 ohm.

BEARING INSPECTION AND CARE

1. The bearings are prelubircated with Chevron SRI-2 high temperature
grease, or equivalent (do not use silicone grease in a DC motor), sufficient
for the life of the bearings.

2. Check bearings by turning them with your fingers. Feel for binding or
gritty effects and for excessive looseness or wobble. If any defect is
apparent or if there is any doubt to serviceability of the bearings, replace
them with new ones.

3. Pull the old bearings with a suitable bearing puller. Press new bearings
into place with an arbor that exerts pressure on the inner ring. Do not use
a hammer for bearing replacement. It will damage the bearing.

REASSEMBLY

1. Set commutator endshield in place on bench with brush rigging facing
upward.

Push each brush back up into brush holder until its end would permit the
commutator to pass under without hitting. Adjust end of spirng so that it is
against side of brush and holds brush in "cocked" position.

2. Set armature, with the ball bearings already assembled, into place in the
endshield.

3. Push on end of each brush to release onto the commutator. Obsereve that
brushes seat on commutator properly and that end of springs ride on brush
tops in line with brush holder grooves. Make sure that the brush shunt will
travel down the holder slot as the brush wears.

4. Mount the stator over the armature and position it exactly with chisel
mark on endshield. Thread thermostat leads through the proper hole in the
commutator endshield. Gently seat on rabbet.

5. a. The pulley endshield contains a seal whose inside lip rides on a
highly finished surface of the shaft. If the shaft surface is still polished
and undamaged but the seal requires replacement then:

(1). Drive the seal from the pulley endshield with a suitable punch and
hammer.

(2). Apply "Hanna Oil Sealer" to the mating surface before placement of the
oil seal (Use # 709957 oil Seal Compound - Hanna Paint Company, Columbus,
Ohio, or equivalent). Do not allow to dry before assembly.

(3). Press seal into position with a suitable press so that its outside
diameter is flush with the face of the endsheild surface recess (see motor
outline). Locate seal into the pulley endshield with seal lip spring facing
away from the bearing.

b. Position spring, spacer, and shim washers into the pulley endshield using
enough Chevron SRI-2 grease in the cavity to hold these parts in place.
After suitably covering the spline of the armature shaft to prevent damage
to the seal lip (also use bearing grease to coat seal lip and shaft cover
surface), gently fit the end shield assembly over the shaft and pulley end
bearing. Line up chisel marks and seat the endshield into the stator rabbet.


6. Be sure endshields are snugly fit in stator rabbets, then replace clamp
screws on both ends. Check to determine that armature is free to turn. If it
will not turn, the parts have been assembled to cause binding.

7. Replace brush access covers

8. Make a high potential test (up to maximum of 600 volts AC for I minute)
to assure motor has been properly reassembled.

9. If a running performance test is to be made before reinstalling motor in
vehicle, observe caution in that this series motor will overspeed if voltage
is applied under no load or inadequate load conditions. Do not apply voltage
to the motor unless a torque load equivalent to 3-1/2 HP at 320ORPM is first
connected to the shaft, and use only direct current battery power.

-----Original Message-----
From: anthonyluiz@... [mailto:anthonyluiz@...]
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 11:28 PM
To: C-Car@...
Subject: [C-Car] Citicar motor


Has anybody taken apart their citicar GE 3.5hp motor? I got my
Citicar with almost dead batteries and a jerking at low speed. After
battery replacment the motor started to smell and the jerking got much
more noticeable. After removing the motor and opening it up we found
that the motor brush holder was bad and the commutator was in bad need
of turning, and the commutator plates have different resistance
readings between adjoining plates. After looking it over,it looks like
there was at one time a ring of some sort that put pressure on the
wires where they attach to the commutator via some set screws or
something, I think this would explain the resistance difference. On
all of the outer wires there is a small dent that looks like there was
a bolt that pushed on it at one time. After looking around and calling
GE I still have not found any info.Does anyone know if there is a ring
of some kind missing. Does anyone have some knowledge or an assembly
drawing of this motor? Can anybody help me? Any info at all would be
helpful and very much appreciated.... want to drive my car again!

Anthony


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<< GE_motor.bmp >>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

Anthony,
I bought a plastic welder from Eastwoods with great expectations of
quickly learning ABS plastic welding. Well, it has worked great for
thawing frozen pipes. Some people say welding is the way to go but I
have not had much luck.
To repair separated pieces, plastic plumbing glue (approved for
ABS) worked well. The paint must be removed from the area to be glued
or patched. For final repair and sanding we used 3M Flexible Plastic
Repair # 5895 A & B. Adhesion promoter #05907 must be used for the
"bondo" to stick well. Also, before any painting or priming you must
use a plastic primer.
This system worked well, although some cracks are returning through
the new paint. Still, turned out much better than I ever expected.
If I can help anymore, please let me know.

Steve Evans
Crete, NE 68333

anthonyluiz@... wrote:

For advice on repairing the body panels on C-cars I would suggest you ask Steve Evans. He did a fantastic job of bringing one back from the dead. You an see both before and after pictures in the EV Album at:



He also posted his email address, so you should be able to contact him for more info.

Thanks,

Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at:
My Electric Car at:
Mid-America EAA chapter at:
Join the EV List at:

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

I have a 1976 citicar that is nice shape but like ALL citicars and
commutacars have little cracks and chips in the body. I also have
about 3 small places
were I need to patch the body where a small part is broken out or
missing. Has anybody had any luck In bonding or plastic welding of
any
kind? I have heard that there is few type's of plastic welders out
there
for differents typs of abs, anybody have any idea which type works
best on c-cars?
Also I would like to patch from the back
side of the body for nore holding power, any ideas on a good glue or
the best way to bond a scrap to the body. I have seen some of the
great work some C-CAR group members have done on their cars so i am
sure there must
be an expert out there on doing this. Thank you for your help.

Anthony

Hi Anthony (and other fellow C-Car owners),

I don't know it the following will help you or not but it's from "The
Citicar-Commutacar Service Manual" Pages 6-1 thru 6-7.

I've also attached the only illustration from this section of the book.

Mike

-------------------------------From the
Book------------------------------------------------

The GENERAL ELECTRIC MOTOR

As of March 1, 1976, all G.E. motor repairs will be handled through the
Authorized G.E. Repair Station in your local area.

You will be supplied with a listing of all G.E. Repair Stations. Take or
send the motor to the nearest one to your location.

Sebring-Vanguard will pay to remove and replace the motor. G.E. will take
care of the warranty.

You as a dealer must supply the G.E. Repair Station with the information on
the vehicle to obtain warranty service.

You must supply;

-Vehicle serial number
-Mileage of vehicle
-Delivery date of vehicle

If you don't know the delivery date, and the customer cannot supply the
date, call the Service Department and we can supply the delivery date.

If the vehicle is out of warranty, the G.E. Repair station will be glad to
quote a price on the repair for the customer.

It would be advisable to stock a motor for substitution in the customer's
vehicle to get it on the road as soon as possible. When you receive the
repaired motor back, put it in stock. A motor repaired by G.E. will be
considered a new motor.

MOTOR REMOVAL - DANA AXLE ONLY

1. It would be easier to remove the motor from under the vehicle, but
remember, it weigh 65 pounds. Raise the vehicle and support on suitable
stands.

2. Disconnect the heater pipes from the manifold.

3. Disconnect cables and mark for later installation. Disconnect heat lamp
wires, remove fan motor thermal switch from outside motor case, if equipped.


4. Remove the rear heater manifold casting from motor,

5. Remove the front 4 end plate bolts and retain.

6. Slide motor back and lower out of vehicle.

7. Remove front end plate from rear axle housing and install on motor.

8. Remove front heater manifold casting and retain.

9. Reinstall in reverse order.

ROUTINE EXAMINATION AND BRUSH REPLACEMENT

1. At 3,000 miles or six months, remove the covers over the brush access
openings and examine the interior.

a. Make sure the brush shunts are positioned so they can move freely down
the brush holder slot as the brush wears. Remove any obstruction which may
have occurred since the last inspection and might cause the brush to bind in
its holder.

b. Check each brush for free movement in its holder and examine it for any
wear and general condition. If a brush is broken, cracked, severely chipped,
or worn to a length of less than 5/8 inch measured on the short side of the
brush, replace it. Whenever any brushes are replaced, it is good practice to
replace all of them. Keep extra brushes on hand. It is recommended that only
brushes obtained from General Electric Company be used.

c. Examine the condition of the brush springs. Make sure the spring coils
are uniform and do not appear discolored by heat. This may have caused a
loss of spring quality. If these or other signs of spring damage are
evident, replace the spring. The use of a small spring scale can be employed
to see if the spring meets the required one pound or more force to lift it
at the point of contact.

d. Observe the condition of the commutator and the armature coils which may
be visible. Refer to section entitled, "Inspection of Armature" for details
to look for, during this inspection.

2. Brush Replacement

a. With fingers or a suitable hook, lift the brush spring end up so the
brush may slide out of its holder. Loosen the brush screw to remove the
brush shunt terminal and remove the brush.

b. Again, lift the end of the brush spring and place the new brush in the
holder in the same relative position as the old brush removed. Place end of
spring in position on top of the brush. Connect the brush shunt terminal to
its proper crossover with the brush screw. Note that the position of the
brush shunt is important when installing brushes. Assure positioning to
permit the brush shunt to travel down the brush holder slot as the brush
wears. If it hands up, commutator damage and motor failure will result.
Install the brush like the sketch below and observe if the shunt will follow
down the slot with wear. Make minor adjustments to ensure the path of
movement will be free before final tightening of the brush screw. Also make
sure that only the insulated portion of the shunt touches the motor
endshield or is touched by the brush cover when it is reinstalled.

c. Replace the covers over the brush access openings.

3 .Cleaning At regular maintenance periods for the vehicle. Remove the cover
over the brush access openings and clean all foreign material, such as dirt
and carbon dust, from the motor's interior. use dry compressed air of
moderate pressure. Clean by suction, if possible, to avoid blowing dirt,
carbon dust, or metal particles into the bearings and insulation.

4. When parts have worn considerably, the motor interior is very dirty, or
other indications suggest a higher echelon of maintenance, the motor must be
disassembled.

NOTE: This condition could be caused by an undetected fault of manufacture
appearing early in normal field service or it could be caused by overloading
the motor and causing high temperature failure of connections. The resulting
high resistance in a joint could cause this symptom appearance. Evidence of
general overheating and accompanying flat spots would tend to indicate
overworking of the motor.

2. If one or more armature conductors is abnormally black or appear burned
compared with the other armature conductors, it is an indication of a
shorted armature. It should first be blown off to clean it, then checked
with a growler. If the short circuit is not confirmed by this indication,
check resistance and apply a high potential test not exceeding 600 volts AC
for I minute. If the armature does not pass these tests, it should not be
used.

NOTE: SHORT CIRCUITED COILS CAN BE CAUSED BY MANY THINGS, AS WELL AS AN
UNDETECTED MANUFACTURING FAULT WHICH MOST LIKELY WOULD SHOW UP EARLY IN
NORMAL SERVICE.

3. If a generally heat discolored appearance is uniformly over the
commutator or windings is observed, it is usually a sign of overloading of
the vehicle or motor. This should be corrected or the symptoms will be
repetitive and motors will be burned out frequently. While an armature of
this appearance might pass checks for resistance, shorts, and high
potential, it has lost some survival ability and will not have a normal
service life.

4. Bubbled insulation and individual brush burn marks on the commutator is
rather a classic example of a motor armature which has been loaded up to
stall with power applied. It promptly overheated and its elements boiled to
quick failure. Other comments are similar to 3 above.

Generally, armatures with other than normal service wear are not recommended
to be repaired and reused although some re-soldering of commutators in the
field has been successfully done. Replacement is heavy duty motors which
sometimes run at high speed under light load conditions.

5. Commutator Inspection and Care

a. Inspect the commutator during each brush inspection.

b. Commutator bars should not be pitted, burned or grooved in the brush
track. If found in this condition, the surface should be refinished in a
lathe, limiting the depth of cut to .055 inch or less on a side and repeat
until smooth.

Before a final cut, the mica insulation between commutator bars should be
undercut .032 inch. No mica slivers should be left along the sides of the
bars above the undercut.

Next, dynamic balance the armature to within .0015 inch amplitude at 3000
RPM. After this, the final finish cut should be made with a diamond tool to
obtain a surface finish of 8 to 16 micro inch. The armature should not be
put back in service with a diameter of less than 2.625 inches.

c. After refinishing a commutator, check it for eccentricity. It should not
exceed .001 inch total indicator reading for the entire diameter and with a
.0002 inch maximum bar-to-bar difference.

INSPECTION OF FIELD WINDINGS

If, upon inspection, the insulation on the field coils appears blackened or
charred, the serviceability of the coils is questionable. Burned or scorched
coil insulation is a symptom of coil overheating due to overloads, grounded,
or short circuited winding.

To check the windings electrically for grounds or open circuits a continuity
tester, ground tester, and ohm meter are required.

To check for a grounded field connect the tester between terminal studs SI
to ground and S2 to ground.

To check for an open or shorted winding: Connect the ohm meter between S2
and Sl. The resistance should read.0138 plus or minus .0014 ohm.

BEARING INSPECTION AND CARE

1. The bearings are prelubircated with Chevron SRI-2 high temperature
grease, or equivalent (do not use silicone grease in a DC motor), sufficient
for the life of the bearings.

2. Check bearings by turning them with your fingers. Feel for binding or
gritty effects and for excessive looseness or wobble. If any defect is
apparent or if there is any doubt to serviceability of the bearings, replace
them with new ones.

3. Pull the old bearings with a suitable bearing puller. Press new bearings
into place with an arbor that exerts pressure on the inner ring. Do not use
a hammer for bearing replacement. It will damage the bearing.

REASSEMBLY

1. Set commutator endshield in place on bench with brush rigging facing
upward.

Push each brush back up into brush holder until its end would permit the
commutator to pass under without hitting. Adjust end of spirng so that it is
against side of brush and holds brush in "cocked" position.

2. Set armature, with the ball bearings already assembled, into place in the
endshield.

3. Push on end of each brush to release onto the commutator. Obsereve that
brushes seat on commutator properly and that end of springs ride on brush
tops in line with brush holder grooves. Make sure that the brush shunt will
travel down the holder slot as the brush wears.

4. Mount the stator over the armature and position it exactly with chisel
mark on endshield. Thread thermostat leads through the proper hole in the
commutator endshield. Gently seat on rabbet.

5. a. The pulley endshield contains a seal whose inside lip rides on a
highly finished surface of the shaft. If the shaft surface is still polished
and undamaged but the seal requires replacement then:

(1). Drive the seal from the pulley endshield with a suitable punch and
hammer.

(2). Apply "Hanna Oil Sealer" to the mating surface before placement of the
oil seal (Use # 709957 oil Seal Compound - Hanna Paint Company, Columbus,
Ohio, or equivalent). Do not allow to dry before assembly.

(3). Press seal into position with a suitable press so that its outside
diameter is flush with the face of the endsheild surface recess (see motor
outline). Locate seal into the pulley endshield with seal lip spring facing
away from the bearing.

b. Position spring, spacer, and shim washers into the pulley endshield using
enough Chevron SRI-2 grease in the cavity to hold these parts in place.
After suitably covering the spline of the armature shaft to prevent damage
to the seal lip (also use bearing grease to coat seal lip and shaft cover
surface), gently fit the end shield assembly over the shaft and pulley end
bearing. Line up chisel marks and seat the endshield into the stator rabbet.


6. Be sure endshields are snugly fit in stator rabbets, then replace clamp
screws on both ends. Check to determine that armature is free to turn. If it
will not turn, the parts have been assembled to cause binding.

7. Replace brush access covers

8. Make a high potential test (up to maximum of 600 volts AC for I minute)
to assure motor has been properly reassembled.

9. If a running performance test is to be made before reinstalling motor in
vehicle, observe caution in that this series motor will overspeed if voltage
is applied under no load or inadequate load conditions. Do not apply voltage
to the motor unless a torque load equivalent to 3-1/2 HP at 320ORPM is first
connected to the shaft, and use only direct current battery power.

I checked some but it is impossible to tell the mfg. date since the
registrations only show the date first sold. The earlier Comuta-cars
used a numbering system similar to the Citicar. My older Comuta-car
is 911SR276A. My later Comuta-car is 1111B1C22AS00329. I believe the
last four digits are the production sequence so that is the best way
to tell the relative age. So yours is #860 and mine is #329. I
checked another that is #593. The last four digits are also stamped
on the frame rail behind the right rear tire (11 o'clock position).

The date first sold on every Comuta-car I've seen is either 1979 or
1980.

SAH

--- In C-Car@..., "Tim Dunning" <tdunning@c...> wrote:

Hi Don,

I don't know how to decode the VIN either, but I have a 1981

(according

to the title) Comuta-Car with VIN 1111B1C20BS000860. Perhaps if

you

can get a few more samples a pattern will emerge.

Good Luck,

Tim

Hi to all, and Happy New Year.

December was a quiet month for the C-group must have been the cold
weather. Even in Florida very cold for our thin blood. It's been a
nice week end I just finished recovering my bench seat. Even with
four of these cars I don't have one good set of seats. Now I have
something comfortable to sit on while I'm trying to unravel the
wiring mess under the dash. The main reason for this message is to
find out if anyone out there knows how to tell what year a

Comutacar

was manufactured. I don't have Titles for any of these cars. They

all

have VIN numbers, and was wondering is it encoded in the VIN #????
Will have some pictures to send soon. Thanks for any help.

Don Morin


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