Anthony, Here is a place that looks promising for motor rebuilds and armature repair. I haven't used them myself. But they did say that they could find or make a field coil set for my Comuta-car. SAH --- In C-Car@..., "anthony luiz" <anthonyluiz@h...> wrote: Hello Mike,
Thank you for your help in finding info. on getting my dead c-car running agian.
Anthony
From: "HOLLAND,MIKE (HP-USA,ex1)" <mike_holland@h...>
Reply-To: C-Car@...
To: "'C-Car@...'" <C-Car@...>, "'anthonyluiz@h...'" <anthonyluiz@h...>
Subject: RE: [C-Car] Citicar motor
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:55:26 -0700
Hi Anthony (and other fellow C-Car owners),
I don't know it the following will help you or not but it's from
"The Citicar-Commutacar Service Manual" Pages 6-1 thru 6-7.
I've also attached the only illustration from this section of the
book.
Mike
-------------------------------From the
Book------------------------------------------------
The GENERAL ELECTRIC MOTOR
As of March 1, 1976, all G.E. motor repairs will be handled
through the Authorized G.E. Repair Station in your local area.
You will be supplied with a listing of all G.E. Repair Stations.
Take or send the motor to the nearest one to your location.
Sebring-Vanguard will pay to remove and replace the motor. G.E.
will take care of the warranty.
You as a dealer must supply the G.E. Repair Station with the
information on the vehicle to obtain warranty service.
You must supply;
-Vehicle serial number
-Mileage of vehicle
-Delivery date of vehicle
If you don't know the delivery date, and the customer cannot
supply the date, call the Service Department and we can supply the delivery
date.
If the vehicle is out of warranty, the G.E. Repair station will be
glad to quote a price on the repair for the customer.
It would be advisable to stock a motor for substitution in the
customer's vehicle to get it on the road as soon as possible. When you
receive the repaired motor back, put it in stock. A motor repaired by G.E.
will be considered a new motor.
MOTOR REMOVAL - DANA AXLE ONLY
1. It would be easier to remove the motor from under the vehicle,
but remember, it weigh 65 pounds. Raise the vehicle and support on
suitable stands.
2. Disconnect the heater pipes from the manifold.
3. Disconnect cables and mark for later installation. Disconnect
heat lamp wires, remove fan motor thermal switch from outside motor case, if
equipped.
4. Remove the rear heater manifold casting from motor,
5. Remove the front 4 end plate bolts and retain.
6. Slide motor back and lower out of vehicle.
7. Remove front end plate from rear axle housing and install on
motor.
8. Remove front heater manifold casting and retain.
9. Reinstall in reverse order.
ROUTINE EXAMINATION AND BRUSH REPLACEMENT
1. At 3,000 miles or six months, remove the covers over the brush
access openings and examine the interior.
a. Make sure the brush shunts are positioned so they can move
freely down the brush holder slot as the brush wears. Remove any obstruction
which may have occurred since the last inspection and might cause the brush
to bind in
its holder.
b. Check each brush for free movement in its holder and examine it
for any wear and general condition. If a brush is broken, cracked,
severely chipped,
or worn to a length of less than 5/8 inch measured on the short
side of the brush, replace it. Whenever any brushes are replaced, it is good
practice to
replace all of them. Keep extra brushes on hand. It is recommended
that only
brushes obtained from General Electric Company be used.
c. Examine the condition of the brush springs. Make sure the
spring coils are uniform and do not appear discolored by heat. This may have
caused a loss of spring quality. If these or other signs of spring damage
are evident, replace the spring. The use of a small spring scale can
be employed
to see if the spring meets the required one pound or more force to
lift it at the point of contact.
d. Observe the condition of the commutator and the armature coils
which may be visible. Refer to section entitled, "Inspection of Armature"
for details to look for, during this inspection.
2. Brush Replacement
a. With fingers or a suitable hook, lift the brush spring end up
so the brush may slide out of its holder. Loosen the brush screw to
remove the brush shunt terminal and remove the brush.
b. Again, lift the end of the brush spring and place the new brush
in the holder in the same relative position as the old brush removed.
Place end of spring in position on top of the brush. Connect the brush shunt
terminal to
its proper crossover with the brush screw. Note that the position
of the brush shunt is important when installing brushes. Assure
positioning to permit the brush shunt to travel down the brush holder slot as the
brush wears. If it hands up, commutator damage and motor failure will
result. Install the brush like the sketch below and observe if the shunt
will follow
down the slot with wear. Make minor adjustments to ensure the path
of movement will be free before final tightening of the brush screw.
Also make sure that only the insulated portion of the shunt touches the motor
endshield or is touched by the brush cover when it is reinstalled.
c. Replace the covers over the brush access openings.
3 .Cleaning At regular maintenance periods for the vehicle. Remove
the cover
over the brush access openings and clean all foreign material,
such as dirt and carbon dust, from the motor's interior. use dry compressed air
of moderate pressure. Clean by suction, if possible, to avoid blowing
dirt, carbon dust, or metal particles into the bearings and insulation.
4. When parts have worn considerably, the motor interior is very
dirty, or other indications suggest a higher echelon of maintenance, the
motor must be
disassembled.
NOTE: This condition could be caused by an undetected fault of
manufacture appearing early in normal field service or it could be caused by
overloading
the motor and causing high temperature failure of connections. The
resulting
high resistance in a joint could cause this symptom appearance.
Evidence of general overheating and accompanying flat spots would tend to
indicate overworking of the motor.
2. If one or more armature conductors is abnormally black or
appear burned compared with the other armature conductors, it is an indication
of a shorted armature. It should first be blown off to clean it, then
checked with a growler. If the short circuit is not confirmed by this
indication, check resistance and apply a high potential test not exceeding 600
volts AC for I minute. If the armature does not pass these tests, it should
not be used.
NOTE: SHORT CIRCUITED COILS CAN BE CAUSED BY MANY THINGS, AS WELL
AS AN UNDETECTED MANUFACTURING FAULT WHICH MOST LIKELY WOULD SHOW UP
EARLY IN NORMAL SERVICE.
3. If a generally heat discolored appearance is uniformly over the
commutator or windings is observed, it is usually a sign of
overloading of the vehicle or motor. This should be corrected or the symptoms
will be repetitive and motors will be burned out frequently. While an
armature of this appearance might pass checks for resistance, shorts, and high
potential, it has lost some survival ability and will not have a
normal service life.
4. Bubbled insulation and individual brush burn marks on the
commutator is rather a classic example of a motor armature which has been loaded
up to stall with power applied. It promptly overheated and its elements
boiled to quick failure. Other comments are similar to 3 above.
Generally, armatures with other than normal service wear are not
recommended
to be repaired and reused although some re-soldering of
commutators in the field has been successfully done. Replacement is heavy duty motors
which sometimes run at high speed under light load conditions.
5. Commutator Inspection and Care
a. Inspect the commutator during each brush inspection.
b. Commutator bars should not be pitted, burned or grooved in the
brush track. If found in this condition, the surface should be
refinished in a lathe, limiting the depth of cut to .055 inch or less on a side
and repeat until smooth.
Before a final cut, the mica insulation between commutator bars
should be undercut .032 inch. No mica slivers should be left along the sides
of the bars above the undercut.
Next, dynamic balance the armature to within .0015 inch amplitude
at 3000 RPM. After this, the final finish cut should be made with a
diamond tool to obtain a surface finish of 8 to 16 micro inch. The armature should
not be put back in service with a diameter of less than 2.625 inches.
c. After refinishing a commutator, check it for eccentricity. It
should not exceed .001 inch total indicator reading for the entire diameter
and with a .0002 inch maximum bar-to-bar difference.
INSPECTION OF FIELD WINDINGS
If, upon inspection, the insulation on the field coils appears
blackened or charred, the serviceability of the coils is questionable. Burned
or scorched
coil insulation is a symptom of coil overheating due to overloads,
grounded,
or short circuited winding.
To check the windings electrically for grounds or open circuits a
continuity
tester, ground tester, and ohm meter are required.
To check for a grounded field connect the tester between terminal
studs SI to ground and S2 to ground.
To check for an open or shorted winding: Connect the ohm meter
between S2 and Sl. The resistance should read.0138 plus or minus .0014 ohm.
BEARING INSPECTION AND CARE
1. The bearings are prelubircated with Chevron SRI-2 high
temperature grease, or equivalent (do not use silicone grease in a DC motor),
sufficient
for the life of the bearings.
2. Check bearings by turning them with your fingers. Feel for
binding or gritty effects and for excessive looseness or wobble. If any
defect is apparent or if there is any doubt to serviceability of the
bearings, replace
them with new ones.
3. Pull the old bearings with a suitable bearing puller. Press new
bearings into place with an arbor that exerts pressure on the inner ring.
Do not use a hammer for bearing replacement. It will damage the bearing.
REASSEMBLY
1. Set commutator endshield in place on bench with brush rigging
facing upward.
Push each brush back up into brush holder until its end would
permit the commutator to pass under without hitting. Adjust end of spirng so
that it is
against side of brush and holds brush in "cocked" position.
2. Set armature, with the ball bearings already assembled, into
place in the
endshield.
3. Push on end of each brush to release onto the commutator.
Obsereve that brushes seat on commutator properly and that end of springs ride
on brush tops in line with brush holder grooves. Make sure that the brush
shunt will travel down the holder slot as the brush wears.
4. Mount the stator over the armature and position it exactly
with chisel mark on endshield. Thread thermostat leads through the proper hole
in the commutator endshield. Gently seat on rabbet.
5. a. The pulley endshield contains a seal whose inside lip rides
on a highly finished surface of the shaft. If the shaft surface is
still polished
and undamaged but the seal requires replacement then:
(1). Drive the seal from the pulley endshield with a suitable
punch and hammer.
(2). Apply "Hanna Oil Sealer" to the mating surface before
placement of the
oil seal (Use # 709957 oil Seal Compound - Hanna Paint Company,
Columbus, Ohio, or equivalent). Do not allow to dry before assembly.
(3). Press seal into position with a suitable press so that its
outside diameter is flush with the face of the endsheild surface recess
(see motor outline). Locate seal into the pulley endshield with seal lip
spring facing away from the bearing.
b. Position spring, spacer, and shim washers into the pulley
endshield using
enough Chevron SRI-2 grease in the cavity to hold these parts in
place. After suitably covering the spline of the armature shaft to
prevent damage to the seal lip (also use bearing grease to coat seal lip and
shaft cover surface), gently fit the end shield assembly over the shaft and
pulley end bearing. Line up chisel marks and seat the endshield into the
stator rabbet.
6. Be sure endshields are snugly fit in stator rabbets, then
replace clamp screws on both ends. Check to determine that armature is free to
turn. If it
will not turn, the parts have been assembled to cause binding.
7. Replace brush access covers
8. Make a high potential test (up to maximum of 600 volts AC for I
minute) to assure motor has been properly reassembled.
9. If a running performance test is to be made before reinstalling
motor in vehicle, observe caution in that this series motor will overspeed
if voltage
is applied under no load or inadequate load conditions. Do not
apply voltage
to the motor unless a torque load equivalent to 3-1/2 HP at
320ORPM is first
connected to the shaft, and use only direct current battery power.
-----Original Message-----
From: anthonyluiz@h... [mailto:anthonyluiz@h...]
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 11:28 PM
To: C-Car@...
Subject: [C-Car] Citicar motor
Has anybody taken apart their citicar GE 3.5hp motor? I got my
Citicar with almost dead batteries and a jerking at low speed.
After battery replacment the motor started to smell and the jerking got
much more noticeable. After removing the motor and opening it up we
found that the motor brush holder was bad and the commutator was in bad
need of turning, and the commutator plates have different resistance
readings between adjoining plates. After looking it over,it looks
like there was at one time a ring of some sort that put pressure on the
wires where they attach to the commutator via some set screws or
something, I think this would explain the resistance difference. On
all of the outer wires there is a small dent that looks like there
was a bolt that pushed on it at one time. After looking around and
calling GE I still have not found any info.Does anyone know if there is a
ring of some kind missing. Does anyone have some knowledge or an
assembly drawing of this motor? Can anybody help me? Any info at all would
be helpful and very much appreciated.... want to drive my car again!
Anthony
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