Am 05.08.2021 um 11:55 schrieb Daniel Forró via groups.io <danforcz@...>:

SY/TG77 has rather complicated way of selecting patches because those times Bank Select command was not yet standardized. Select Direct Program Change mode. Set Device Number to 1.
Try these two possibilities (but I haven’t tried them so maybe I’m wrong):

---------
With Program Change (explanation in the manual is not quite clear):

Send two PC commands on the channel where you want to change patch:
First:
121 for bank Preset 1 patch
118 for bank Preset 2 patch
119 for Internal or Cartridge bank patch (depending on actual patch in Multi)
120 for Cartridge or Internal bank patch (depending on actual patch in Multi)

Second:
0 to 63 for patch in the bank

---------
With SysEx:

Send two SysEx commands:
First: F0 43 10 34 01 0c 00 01 00 V2 F7
where:
c = channel in Multi where patch select should be done
V2:
00 = Internal bank
01 = Cartridge bank
02 = Preset 1 bank
03 = Preset 2 bank

Second: F0 43 10 34 01 0c 00 02 00 V2 F7
where:
V2 = 00 to 3F (to select patch 1 to 64 in the bank)

Let me know if it works.

Daniel Forro

On Aug 5, 2021, at 17:51, hwk <hansw.koch@...> wrote:

(maybe a weird question):
on a TG77, is it possible to change the voices, which make up a multi “on the fly”, with e.g. program change or a sysex command?
i tried to figure out from the manual/midi specs, but couldn?t reach a conclusion.
maybe someone has already tried / knows an answer.

background: on my TX816 i can send individual program changes to each module on its own channel and thus change the composition of it as a “multi instrument”.
now i was wondering if i can achieve the same on a TG77.

thanks in advance,

best
hans

Am 05.08.2021 um 11:55 schrieb Daniel Forró via groups.io <danforcz@...>:

SY/TG77 has rather complicated way of selecting patches because those times Bank Select command was not yet standardized. Select Direct Program Change mode. Set Device Number to 1.
Try these two possibilities (but I haven’t tried them so maybe I’m wrong):

---------
With Program Change (explanation in the manual is not quite clear):

Send two PC commands on the channel where you want to change patch:
First:
121 for bank Preset 1 patch
118 for bank Preset 2 patch
119 for Internal or Cartridge bank patch (depending on actual patch in Multi)
120 for Cartridge or Internal bank patch (depending on actual patch in Multi)

Second:
0 to 63 for patch in the bank

---------
With SysEx:

Send two SysEx commands:
First: F0 43 10 34 01 0c 00 01 00 V2 F7
where:
c = channel in Multi where patch select should be done
V2:
00 = Internal bank
01 = Cartridge bank
02 = Preset 1 bank
03 = Preset 2 bank

Second: F0 43 10 34 01 0c 00 02 00 V2 F7
where:
V2 = 00 to 3F (to select patch 1 to 64 in the bank)

Let me know if it works.

Daniel Forro

On Aug 5, 2021, at 17:51, hwk <hansw.koch@...> wrote:

(maybe a weird question):
on a TG77, is it possible to change the voices, which make up a multi “on the fly”, with e.g. program change or a sysex command?
i tried to figure out from the manual/midi specs, but couldn?t reach a conclusion.
maybe someone has already tried / knows an answer.

background: on my TX816 i can send individual program changes to each module on its own channel and thus change the composition of it as a “multi instrument”.
now i was wondering if i can achieve the same on a TG77.

thanks in advance,

best
hans

On Aug 5, 2021, at 17:51, hwk <hansw.koch@...> wrote:

(maybe a weird question):
on a TG77, is it possible to change the voices, which make up a multi “on the fly”, with e.g. program change or a sysex command?
i tried to figure out from the manual/midi specs, but couldn?t reach a conclusion.
maybe someone has already tried / knows an answer.

background: on my TX816 i can send individual program changes to each module on its own channel and thus change the composition of it as a “multi instrument”.
now i was wondering if i can achieve the same on a TG77.

thanks in advance,

best
hans

On Jul 4, 2021, at 2:26, Eb Myatt via <eb.myatt@...> wrote:

On Jun 30, 2021, at 11:56 AM, philfrei via <philfrei@...> wrote:

I've been reading about the "Railsback curve". Is there a way to implement this on a DX7?

For those not familiar, this refers to deviations to the mathematically pure 2:1 ratio for octaves that are often implemented by piano tuners. I'm curious about this, in part because of intonation issues when playing my oboe along with recorded DX7 parts. The higher notes of the DX7 sound progressively flatter compared to what I'm naturally playing on my acoustic instrument. I've been working to adjust my acoustic instrument's pitch to accommodate, but from what I've recently been reading about "subjective octaves" (that for orchestral instruments, they may in fact have a stretch-octave curve similar to the piano's Railsback curve), I'd like to experiment with having the DX7 accommodate my acoustic instrument, instead.

On Jul 2, 2021, at 4:51 PM, LarryS <vision1@...> wrote:

I have a chart in a piano tuning book that shows stretch tuning.

Well, maybe I do. ?It's buried somewhere.

L.

Hello?All,

FWIW, I just found some tables that I did decades ago regarding alternate tunings on the DX11.

One limitation of this is that these tunings apply?uniformly in all octaves i.e. they are not?“fractional” tunings.?

I suppose that you could layer different octaves to make a?“polyphonic” voice … not sure if this approach would work on the DX7s though. Please find attached two such examples.

Greetings,

E?

<Equal.rtf><Werckmeister.rtf>

On Jul 3, 2021, at 3:27, Nicole Massey <nyyki@...> wrote:

Anyone know if there are microtunings out there on the web for standard things like stretch tunings and the different mean tone options?

Sent from my HAL 9000 in transit to Jupiter


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of philfrei via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2021 10:54 AM
To: [email protected]; danforcz@...
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Intonation on DX7

I did a search for the CP 80 manual, and am only finding it behind paywalls (average cost around $16) or from sites that are attempting to give me trojans. Yamaha's only CP series manual, if I did the search correctly at their site is for CP 88 (or a supplement with additional voices that came out later). Searches on the words "pitch" "intonation" "tuning" didn't show what I was hoping to find.

If the chart is a true Railsback implementation, I'd seriously consider purchasing it. But I can't tell from the info you gave if that is indeed what it is. You mention a pitch range (-23 to +35 cents). This suggests to me that the setting is used for coding temperaments. For the "Railsback curve" stretch, each octave, working outward from Middle C, would have more deviation than the previous, and so, the desired amount of deviation would lie outside the range.

The nice thing about the DX7 series performance intonation settings is that as the stretch accumulates, it is possible to make use of the "coarse" control, if needed.

On Jul 3, 2021, at 0:54, philfrei via <philfrei@...> wrote:

I did a search for the CP 80 manual, and am only finding it behind paywalls (average cost around $16) or from sites that are attempting to give me trojans. Yamaha's only CP series manual, if I did the search correctly at their site is for CP 88 (or a supplement with additional voices that came out later). Searches on the words "pitch" "intonation" "tuning" didn't show what I was hoping to find.

If the chart is a true Railsback implementation, I'd seriously consider purchasing it. But I can't tell from the info you gave if that is indeed what it is. You mention a pitch range (-23 to +35 cents). This suggests to me that the setting is used for coding temperaments. For the "Railsback curve" stretch, each octave, working outward from Middle C, would have more deviation than the previous, and so, the desired amount of deviation would lie outside the range.

The nice thing about the DX7 series performance intonation settings is that as the stretch accumulates, it is possible to make use of the "coarse" control, if needed.

On Jul 2, 2021, at 0:34, philfrei via <philfrei@...> wrote:

Thanks. I found the Microtuning section in my DX7S manual. This is interesting, and looks like it could accomplish the task, albeit one would have to calculate and enter values for each note. My only hesitation is that perhaps the "fine" tuning could benefit from being slightly finer for a smoother fit to the Railsback curve.

When I bring up A3, my display reads as follows:

>Micro tune< A3

f: A3 + 0?? 5802

We are in "fine tuning" mode, designated by the "f". Clicking the data entry +1/ON button changes the second line to the following:

f: A3 + 1 ? 5803

If, from the same starting point, but in "coarse tuning" mode, designated by "c", the same action (incrementing the value by one) results in the following second line displays:

c: A#3 + 0 ? 5888
c: B3 + 0?? 5973
c: C4 + 0?? 6058

I am curious about the right-most number. The coarse appears to vary the right-most integer by 85 (but sometimes 86), and the fine appears to transition over the intervening increments. I can see that this matches the 1.17 cents approximation that you referred to. I'm guessing the large integer is the index column of a data table that encodes frequency.

I've not found a source equation or chart yet for the Railsback values. I've read estimates of 10 to 20 cents perceived stretching occurs even for the middle octaves, even thought the Railsback adjustment made there is smaller. I suspect that the adjustments made by piano tuners, which are less in the middle registers and more in the outer registers, reflects a compromise that derives from common use of those frequency ranges. Around middle C, we are more likely to use "close-voiced" chords, and in that context, beating between the notes might be more annoying, whereas at the extremes, where open-voicings are used (octaves, or at the least fifth), the "stretch" could be the more discomfiting factor.

On Jul 1, 2021, at 0:56, philfrei via <philfrei@...> wrote:

I've been reading about the "Railsback curve". Is there a way to implement this on a DX7?

For those not familiar, this refers to deviations to the mathematically pure 2:1 ratio for octaves that are often implemented by piano tuners. I'm curious about this, in part because of intonation issues when playing my oboe along with recorded DX7 parts. The higher notes of the DX7 sound progressively flatter compared to what I'm naturally playing on my acoustic instrument. I've been working to adjust my acoustic instrument's pitch to accommodate, but from what I've recently been reading about "subjective octaves" (that for orchestral instruments, they may in fact have a stretch-octave curve similar to the piano's Railsback curve), I'd like to experiment with having the DX7 accommodate my acoustic instrument, instead.

Reference links: