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Re: Serial cable question
? ? ? ? Hi Stu, ? ? ? ? ? ?Yes the 8 bits part is correct but more importantly you need 2 stop bits.?
? I’m just surmising here but I believe early Yaesu radios did not have full synchronous protocols. It meant you can only send data commands to the radio and not receive them. You can send for example a change of VFO frequency but if you manually changed VFO by hand then the PC (or controlling equipment) would not know you did that. Later, I’m lead to believe that this changed so that commands could be sent to recover modes and VFO with just 5 instructions.
? It is possible you have an older radio (you state 1999) that doesn’t have asynchronous data capabilities! or there is something simple as only using 1 stop bit. As the parity bit and stop bit are next to each other then you are effectively shedding a bit and the data set move along 1 bit looking for the stop bit.?
? I don’t expect most to understand the next few comments but it would be really good if people read over the hamlib code (again you don’t need to understand it) and look at what CAT commands can actually work.
? Constraints and a serious flaw in Yaesus thinking which is causing huge issues with GreenCube satellite is not being able to TX and RX on the same frequency through both VFO’s.
? Trying to full duplex on the same band will of course lead to loop back into the front end and kill it but we see the protocol prevents accessing VFO B from CAT. Having just one serial interpreter (no tuner and CAT together), 10hz tuning steps from CAT where the FT847 is capable of 0.1hz from memory (I believe this is to do with the length of bits and not enough to send the whole frequency ?but the command structure uses 5 bits to enter an instruction.)
Example: 100mhz/10mhz is bit 1 1mhz/100khz is bit 2 10mhz/1khz is bit 3 100hz/10hz is bit 4 OP code or Mode is bit 5 (LSB, FM or whatever).?
So we can see there aren’t enough bits to go beyond 10hz.
? Here is a snippet from the HamLib library which shows what instructions are used to read the radio frequency.
? { 1, { 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0xe7 } }, /* get RX status ?*/
? { 1, { 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0xf7 } }, /* get TX status ?*/
? { 1, { 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x03 } }, /* get FREQ and MODE status, main ?*/
? { 1, { 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x13 } }, /* get FREQ and MODE status, sat rx ?*/
? { 1, { 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x23 } }, /* get FREQ and MODE status, sat tx ?*/
? That’s it!!! Just 5 instructions to read back what the radio is doing. Compared to the 40 or so instructions that’s send instructions to the radio.
? More importantly we can see control over VFO B outside of SAT mode is impossible. SAT mode also inhibits same band TX in full duplex (again to prevent RF looping into the front end and RX and TX on the same physical socket of course).
? Ok, why have I explained this! Because I’ve been working with Yaesu’s quite “unique” CAT commands system for a long time. I’ve built Bluetooth CAT interfaces for the FT847, I’ve built 2.4ghz ISM CAT controllers and I was pretty dissatisfied with the FT991 not having any thought for satellite communications. When it works then it’s actually a very robust system but complex in its implementation.?
?With this knowledge you can no go ahead and open a terminal program and send instructions to the radio. I’ve pasted the instruction to turn on and off CAT control.
{ 1, { 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00 } }, /* CAT = On */ ? { 1, { 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x80 } }, /* CAT = Off */
Naturally ignore the 1 as your only interested in the? 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 and 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x80 parts.
? Of course if you can turn the CAT indicator on and off you can send other instructions. Once that’s established you can go ahead and try to read back the frequency and mode of the radio. If that doesn’t work then I believe you have an older synchronous and a non asynchronous version (this is often referred as bidirectional in some literature).
? It is also important to observe that Yaesu fill dummy characters prior to the last bit (the fifth bit) if they are not needed. So turning on CAT could be 0x12 0x34 0x56 0x78 0x00 for example. So long as the last bit or bit number 5 or the OP code isn’t expecting the previous bits to be readable. 0x00 and 0x80 are the only significant bits and will turn CAT On and Off accordingly. Yaesu use some weird asterisk looking thingy to show dummy characters in their CAT command.
? Lastly, here is a thread that you will find interesting on the whole Bidirectional (sorry if I’m calling is asynchronous but that’s how I consider it). You can also determine radio year from this thread.
? Overall it’s a lot to take in and this is just my opinion so don’t shoot the messenger if I made some mistakes, however, you're armed with enough information to not only check the radio but no reason you can’t control it from bespoke hardware like an Arduino Mega2560 in the future.
Good luck,
De Spence G5STO
?
This makes good reading for anyone wishing to explore the HamLib library.
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Yaesu’s CAT command structure in their terms!
Sent while portable! please excuse typos.
On 29 Jul 2024, at 01:55, Stu Olson via groups.io <stuolson8430@...> wrote:
?
Sorry I didn't have that in my notes.? I don't have my FT-847 interfaced anymore but I did check the radio's menu and the CAT rate I was using was set to 9600.? I'm also quite certain it was 8 data bits.? The other ones should be easy enough to determine by trial and error.? Apparently I didn't find it enough of a problem to warrant recording the details.?
?
Re: Serial cable question
Sorry I didn't have that in my notes.? I don't have my FT-847 interfaced anymore but I did check the radio's menu and the CAT rate I was using was set to 9600.? I'm also quite certain it was 8 data bits.? The other ones should be easy enough to determine by trial and error.? Apparently I didn't find it enough of a problem to warrant recording the details.?
?
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Re: Serial cable question
Ron, I'm a bit puzzled by the phrase "not recognized" by the
software.? I don't recall any of the Ham software packages
"recognizing" the 847 as an 847.? Rather, I tell the
software that I have an 847 and it just trusts that I am correct and
talks to the rig just fine.? I take it that the software isn't able
to talk to the rig in any way, i.e. the "CAT" icon doesn't light up
on the display?? Should be on the far right.
You might check the rig's configuration (Menu #37 - CAT Rate) for
the BAUD rate; make sure it matches what you're using on the
computer.? 9600 is common (and is what I'm using), but not the only
choice.
One final note, just to make sure you're aware.? The 847 is rather
unique in how it treats the CAT interface with respect to keying the
rig for digital modes.? You cannot use the CAT interface to key the
rig if the audio you're intending to transmit is coming in from
either the TRS or DIN connectors on the back.? For some bizarre
reason now mercifully lost to history, keying the 847 from the CAT
port pulls audio from the Mike connector on the front.? Use the CAT
interface for setting frequency and mode, but key the rig via a
hardware line through the TRS if you're using one of the HF SSB
modes, or the DIN port if running VHF/UHF FM.? The audio source
needs to match the PTT keying port.? Breaking out one of the modem
lines from the USB-Serial dongle is common, feeding it through an
NPN transistor and such.? Lots of schematics on the Web.
Greg? KO6TH
Ron Liekens via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thanks for the reactions and possible solutions.
?
The USB is reacting good to Windows 11 commands, but the
FT-847 is not recognised by several softwares like FL-Digi,
HamRadio Deluxe or WSJT-X. I tested it with standard RS-232
cable and O-modem serial cable, but no luck so far. I have a USB
model with an FTDI chip on the way to be delivered later today.
Also had an older one that also works with Windows 10 and 11,
but sadly no luck with it. Mind you Windows has no problems with
it and I used a serial connection software check-up that sees no
problems with it.
?
My radio is made in 1999, so I guess it is OK.
?
73' Ron
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Sounds like it is weak and noisy
Need a spectrum analyser
73
Andrew
?Get BlueMail for Android ?
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On 28 Jul 2024, 00:23, at 00:23, "Wayne Carpenter KN2Z @minicowman via groups.io" <mwcarpe@...> wrote: On Fri, Jul 26, 2024 at 02:52 PM, Mike KC3OSD wrote:
I would check to see if your reference oscillator is even
oscillating.? Do
you see 45.250 MHz on TP1002? Huge amount of noise on TP1002. But I was eventually able to sync on a
signal that was nearly double the expected 45-ish MHz.. More like 76
MHz.
I appreciate all the input and suggestions. Truely. But at this point I
am putting it back together and handing it back to the owner along with
my best wishes.
73 y'all.
WC/KN2Z
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Re: Serial cable question
Quick question?
Are you using 9600,8,n,2,n
That means 2 stop bits? If not then you must use 2 stop bits.
De Spence G5STO Sent while portable! please excuse typos.
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On 28 Jul 2024, at 13:05, Stu Olson via groups.io <stuolson8430@...> wrote:
? I checked my notes, the FT847 is a Null modem connection to RS232 port.?
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Re: Serial cable question
I checked my notes, the FT847 is a Null modem connection to RS232 port.?
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Re?: Re: [YaesuFT847] Serial cable question
Hello, Ron, I use SUCCI with FT847, Icom 725 and Icom 756pro3, never problem, use it with UCX Log and with satellite connection with SatPC32 without problems, many years.
Le dimanche, juillet 28, 2024, 1:44 PM, Ron Liekens <r.e.liekens@...> a écrit?: Thanks for the reactions and possible solutions.
?
The USB is reacting good to Windows 11 commands, but the FT-847 is not recognised by several softwares like FL-Digi, HamRadio Deluxe or WSJT-X. I tested it with standard RS-232 cable and O-modem serial cable, but no luck so far. I have a USB model with an FTDI chip on the way to be delivered later today. Also had an older one that also works with Windows 10 and 11, but sadly no luck with it. Mind you Windows has no problems with it and I used a serial connection software check-up that sees no problems with it.
?
My radio is made in 1999, so I guess it is OK.
?
73' Ron
--
Yvan
|
Re: Serial cable question
Thanks for the reactions and possible solutions.
?
The USB is reacting good to Windows 11 commands, but the FT-847 is not recognised by several softwares like FL-Digi, HamRadio Deluxe or WSJT-X. I tested it with standard RS-232 cable and O-modem serial cable, but no luck so far. I have a USB model with an FTDI chip on the way to be delivered later today. Also had an older one that also works with Windows 10 and 11, but sadly no luck with it. Mind you Windows has no problems with it and I used a serial connection software check-up that sees no problems with it.
?
My radio is made in 1999, so I guess it is OK.
?
73' Ron
|
Re?: Re: [YaesuFT847] Serial cable question
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Le dimanche, juillet 28, 2024, 12:13 PM, David Steele via groups.io <david_steele@...> a écrit?: Hi Ron, WJ1I? here and 73 from Cape Cod .
I have a 847 running rock solid on CAT control.? You cannot use the external tuner control and CAT at the same time...one or the other.? Very important- you need a "null modem" cable or adapter between the pc and the radio . This? swaps the rx and tx lines? . Without this you'll get nothing!?
Next, as others have suggested, I strongly encourage using? only FDTI chip set USB adapters. I've found?https://www.startech.com/en-eu/cards-adapters/icusb2321f to be rock solid performers. Alternatively fit a pci rs232 card if using a desktop PC .?
73 Dave
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: Ron Liekens <r.e.liekens@...> Date: 7/27/24 6:04 AM (GMT-05:00) Subject: [YaesuFT847] Serial cable question
Hi,
Can someone advise me a USB to serial RS-232 cable that works with the FT-847. I have a model with a Prolific230GT chip that does not connect. I have done several tests with a serial check software, and it seems to work ok. No luck with the FT-847 connecting tough.
?
73' Ron
ON2RON
--
Yvan
|
Re?: Re: [YaesuFT847] Serial cable question
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Le dimanche, juillet 28, 2024, 12:13 PM, David Steele via groups.io <david_steele@...> a écrit?: Hi Ron, WJ1I? here and 73 from Cape Cod .
I have a 847 running rock solid on CAT control.? You cannot use the external tuner control and CAT at the same time...one or the other.? Very important- you need a "null modem" cable or adapter between the pc and the radio . This? swaps the rx and tx lines? . Without this you'll get nothing!?
Next, as others have suggested, I strongly encourage using? only FDTI chip set USB adapters. I've found?https://www.startech.com/en-eu/cards-adapters/icusb2321f to be rock solid performers. Alternatively fit a pci rs232 card if using a desktop PC .?
73 Dave
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: Ron Liekens <r.e.liekens@...> Date: 7/27/24 6:04 AM (GMT-05:00) Subject: [YaesuFT847] Serial cable question
Hi,
Can someone advise me a USB to serial RS-232 cable that works with the FT-847. I have a model with a Prolific230GT chip that does not connect. I have done several tests with a serial check software, and it seems to work ok. No luck with the FT-847 connecting tough.
?
73' Ron
ON2RON
--
Yvan
|
Re: Serial cable question
Hi Ron, WJ1I? here and 73 from Cape Cod .
I have a 847 running rock solid on CAT control.? You cannot use the external tuner control and CAT at the same time...one or the other.? Very important- you need a "null modem" cable or adapter between the pc and the radio . This? swaps the rx and tx lines? . Without this you'll get nothing!?
Next, as others have suggested, I strongly encourage using? only FDTI chip set USB adapters. I've found?https://www.startech.com/en-eu/cards-adapters/icusb2321f to be rock solid performers. Alternatively fit a pci rs232 card if using a desktop PC .?
73 Dave
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: Ron Liekens <r.e.liekens@...> Date: 7/27/24 6:04 AM (GMT-05:00) Subject: [YaesuFT847] Serial cable question
Hi,
Can someone advise me a USB to serial RS-232 cable that works with the FT-847. I have a model with a Prolific230GT chip that does not connect. I have done several tests with a serial check software, and it seems to work ok. No luck with the FT-847 connecting tough.
?
73' Ron
ON2RON
|
Re: Serial cable question
Wondering what you mean by it "not connecting" to the 847...?
Assuming you have an 847 with a recent-enough serial number to have
2-way communication, one thing that might be a problem is the
USB-Serial converter chip (Prolific, FTDI, and the counterfeit
versions) and the drivers on your computer.? I'd look for a
"Genuine" FTDI-based adapter, if you can find one, and if it really
is what it says it is.? I purchased one earlier this year, and while
it did work, the operating system very clearly identified it as NOT
an FTDI chip leaving me feeling cheated.? So, good luck in that
regard.
For troubleshooting serial problems I sometimes use an adapter that
has LEDs that indicate status of the various modem control lines and
data activity.? I've used this one, though not specifically with the
847:? ? No issues with the
chipset there.? Oh, but that brings up the other perennial
incompatibility, that between the straight-through and null-modem
(Tx / Rx swap) cables.? Serial interfacing is plagued with ports
wired backwards, wrong gender, etc.? I forget what I used with my
847. ? I think the rig is done the right way, but your cabling might
not be.? The LED indicators can help with that.? Check the rig's
manual on how the radio's serial port is wired.
Greg? KO6TH
?
Ron Liekens via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi,
Can someone advise me a USB to serial RS-232 cable that works
with the FT-847. I have a model with a Prolific230GT chip that
does not connect. I have done several tests with a serial check
software, and it seems to work ok. No luck with the FT-847
connecting tough.
?
73' Ron
ON2RON
|
Wayne Carpenter KN2Z @minicowman
On Fri, Jul 26, 2024 at 02:52 PM, Mike KC3OSD wrote:
I would check to see if your reference oscillator is even oscillating.? Do you see 45.250 MHz on TP1002?
Huge amount of noise on TP1002. But I was eventually able to sync on a signal that was nearly double the expected 45-ish MHz.. More like 76 MHz.?
?
I appreciate all the input and suggestions. Truely. But at this point I am putting it back together and handing it back to the owner along with my best wishes.
?
73 y'all.
?
WC/KN2Z
|
Re: Serial cable question
Hello, I use for FT847 interface SUCCI with total succes, RS232 from FT847 and OUT USB, CW, PTT and PEDAL. You find it on eBay for about 20�, when I remember...
Vy 73 Yvan HB9CSM
Le samedi, 27 juillet 2024 à 12:04:02 UTC+2, Ron Liekens <r.e.liekens@...> a écrit :
Hi,
Can someone advise me a USB to serial RS-232 cable that works with the FT-847. I have a model with a Prolific230GT chip that does not connect. I have done several tests with a serial check software, and it seems to work ok. No luck with the FT-847 connecting tough.
?
73' Ron
ON2RON
-- Yvan
|
Hi,
Can someone advise me a USB to serial RS-232 cable that works with the FT-847. I have a model with a Prolific230GT chip that does not connect. I have done several tests with a serial check software, and it seems to work ok. No luck with the FT-847 connecting tough.
?
73' Ron
ON2RON
|
Here here, these radios do drift over time
?Get BlueMail for Android ?
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On 26 Jul 2024, 20:52, at 20:52, Mike KC3OSD <micbial@...> wrote: I would check to see if your reference oscillator is even oscillating.?
Do you see 45.250 MHz on TP1002?
You said it transmits in FM.? Just because there is RF showing on a
Wattmeter does not mean it's the correct one.? Check to see if it is
actually transmitting on the frequency the radio is set to.
As someone else mentioned, go through the alignment procedure.? When
starting out repairing radios it is often the best diagnostic tool.?
You will be probing and adjusting pretty much every circuit throughout
the radio.? If you get to a point in the alignment where something is
wrong work your way back through that circuit.
Mike KC3OSD
|
I would check to see if your reference oscillator is even oscillating.? Do you see 45.250 MHz on TP1002?
?
You said it transmits in FM.? Just because there is RF showing on a Wattmeter does not mean it's the correct one.? Check to see if it is actually transmitting on the frequency the radio is set to.
?
As someone else mentioned, go through the alignment procedure.? When starting out repairing radios it is often the best diagnostic tool.? You will be probing and adjusting pretty much every circuit throughout the radio.? If you get to a point in the alignment where something is wrong work your way back through that circuit.
?
Mike KC3OSD
|
Wayne Carpenter KN2Z @minicowman
I got the radio opened up this morning and finally located both TP1003 and the T1009 adjustment.
?
It looks as though someone has 'technified' this rig before I got to it. I found a single copper-coated spring steel 'finger' like one finds on radios that ensure the case is grounded to chassis ground. But just one.. and nowhere else in the radio were any like it and no place that looked like one or more had broken away.
?
I found there to be? 0.07 vdc on TP1003 regardless of state of RX or TX.. no change. This was with CW mode selected and RF power turned all the way down. I tried to bring pwr up to see what might happen with the voltage at TP1003.. While the radio still shows going into TX mode, no power is displayed on the S/PWR meter on the radio and none on the wattmeter I had between the radio and the dummy load.? And the voltage remained unchanged regardless of RF pwr control setting.? Then I discovered that the T1009 control was already maxed out (fully clockwise). I tried backing it off and the voltage at TP1003 decreased from 0.07 all the way down to 0.00.
?
I can hear the relay click on TX but still not even a flutter in voltage.?
?
I just get the feeling the problem is a lot deeper than a VCO adjustment. I'm still open to suggestions but I'm about ready to give him the bad news.? If he can find someone honest, that works on these things for a living, he might still be okay with it but it doesn't appear that I'm the guy for the job. I'm a hobby-level tech that works almost exclusively on old/vintage tube gear. If I HAD a pay grade, this would be above it?
?
WC/KN2Z
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7-26-2024 Update RE: [YaesuFT847] FT-847 only transmitting on FM mode. de: W1SMS
Andrew, Good morning – I am finally getting back to my FT-847 troubleshooting. ? Yesterday, I performed the test of TP1003 and adjustment of T1009. ? I found that there is a maximum voltage of 0.572 which varies by adjusting T1009. Note that this voltage is present in RX or in TX (CW) – it just remains steady. ? So, what is the next step ? ? Thanks and 73, Steve ? W1SMS Steven M. Simons ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Andrew Lenton
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 5:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [YaesuFT847] FT-847 only transmitting on FM mode. de: W1SMS? On 10 Oct 2023, at 21:14, Steven Simons <ssimons@...> wrote: Andrew,
Nice to meet you and thanks for the repair tips.
I do have a copy of the service manual - which I plan on reviewing prior to performing any adjustments.
I'll probe the test points you refer to and see what I find.
"stay tuned"....
de: W1SMS
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Hi there are a number of simple alignment steps, where the test point are peaked even with out much test equipment you can do around 80% ? Q1024 is a VCO locked to X1001 the component drifts over the years. ? I have known hams that when doing an alignment, accidently, move the wrong coil so make sure you find T1009 as it has many neighbours. There are manuals on this forum you can down load ? 73 ? Andrew ? 
?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Wayne Carpenter KN2Z @minicowman via groups.io
Sent: 24 July 2024 14:23
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [YaesuFT847] No TX or RX? On Tue, Jul 23, 2024 at 03:34 PM, Andrew Lenton wrote: Failing that go through all the alignment.
Thanks Andrew!? I will give the voltage check a try. Sounds easy enough.?? I don't know about an alignment though. I have a user manual and schematics that I downloaded but I don't have anything like an advanced or service manual so no alignment instructions.? I have a recently calibrated HP signal generator, an Agilent spectrum analyzer and a couple of scopes that do well enough for HF band work (one's a 25MHz and the other is a 50) but doing an alignment on one of these vs an old National or Hallicrafters seems a bit daunting without proper instruction. But I will try what you've suggested. I really want to help the guy out. He's always doing stuff for others and volunteers in the community all the time. It would be nice to give back now and then.
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Spence G5STO
Stu Olson
Andrew Lenton
Mike KC3OSD