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Re: Reversing Loops again
Iain,
Heh, I wasn't really asking for advice on the track plan, just checking on how to wire up the reversing loops especially in the Digikeijs/YaMoRC world. This track plan is verson 60, so it's been going on for a while now. The whole layout is loop-to-loop over 2 decks. There is yet another staging yard underneath for the other end of the mainline. iTrain or TrainController needs to know about all of the tracks with Railcom detection. Your answer is not the greatest news, but one I really needed to be confirmed. If it's impractical to put lots of detected blocks inside a reversing loop, then it looks like I will be buying a lot of DR5013's (or the YaMoRC equivalent if/when it becomes available.). This brings it up to around 12 units.? I've not seen anyone else recommend the short-circuit switch mode, so your comments were useful. Thanks. |
Re: Reversing Loops again
Don’t recall that being ?mentioned, looks like you are into five modules then - are redesigning the track to make one feasible - unfortunately the r are only seeing little snippets which prevent us from answering anything other that what the snippet shows On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 12:00, Oldngrey <steve_donald_@...> wrote: As I mentioned, there isn't room to do that. I know it's the conventional solution but can't do it here. --
Many Thanks Iain Morrison |
Re: Reversing Loops again
开云体育? Slide the turnout circled in blue to the right, this extending the line marked purple and make that the auto-reversing section ? ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Oldngrey
Sent: 01 April 2023 06:37 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [YaMoRC] Reversing Loops again ? Iain, |
Re: Reversing Loops again
Iain,
Yes. You've answered the question. I will gap it for the extra sections and see what I can get working. Length of the loop isn't an issue for me. In the unlikely case that the preferred non-shorting config proves to be a problem I will revert to the short circuit detecting method. It's just a wiring change. Now for the final example not covered by your advice. It's a staging yard room for 5 long trains. As shown, each of the 5 tracks is double gapped (green). The common point is the turnout on the far right. As before ignore the thin black lines as they are only for change of radius. Ideally I would make the reversing section from one of the tracks leading off from the far-right turnout. But they aren't long enough at around 2.4 meters. The loop tracks are over 5meters long - twice as long. This means I need to either have 5 reversing sections - one for each loop track. Obviously this would means short-circuit mode. Not cheap. Or, I could alternatively have all 5 tracks wired as one reversing section. That would be in short circuit detection mode with room for the sensor gaps. The downside to that is that only 1 train movement is possible inside the staging yard at one time. I am also not sure if there are any detection issues involved with the polarity reversal of the tracks. Surely this isn't a rare problem and there is a best solution out there! Edit: I do realize there is no YaMoRC product to do reversing yet. Ironically I feel as if there is more chance of getting a YaMoRC product than another DR5013. |
Re: Reversing Loops again
开云体育? It is unfortunately still rather difficult to read the diagram, mainly due to the colours in use, but also the resolution however I have marked what I consider is the reverse loop. ? You can use the DR5013 in short-circuit mode to switch all of this track, or you can place sections in it to use sensor direction change. Personally I just use the shortcircuit mode as the sensore mode remove too much useable track shortening the length of the trains that can be used within it. ? The sidings are outside the loop therefore not affected by the auto-reverse and you can just use a YD6016LN-CS (the RC will not be available for a while) or wait until the RC is available. ? Iain From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Oldngrey
Sent: 28 March 2023 11:10 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [YaMoRC] Reversing Loops again ? Thanks Iain, as I thought really. |
Re: Reversing Loops again
Thanks Iain, as I thought really.
I had a question buried in the bottom of the post about adding tracks inside the loop whilst still using all the RD5013 features. This revision is a hybrid of the first one, adding in some storage sidings inside the loop (but not inside the switched reversing section itself). So the loop is basically the same as in the RD5013 documentation on page 27 where it is section 5.3 "DR5013 with sensor tracks (S0, S1, S2, S3) and LocoNet" with some added storage tracks: I was thinking of using more of the unused YD6016LN-RC to also report back on the occupancy of the additional storage. They are not in the reversing section, but are in the sensing blocks. Here is the revised track plan: Forget the outer double tracks. All the yard tracks, storage, and reversing loop are on one booster. So S0, S1, S2, and S3 are the tracks at the ends of the reversing loop (the inner curve). Please excuse the blurred image. The additional storage tracks are added in next to the loop switch. I hope that's clear. Is it possible that I can have all the RD5013 features and still have some extra storage inside? All the examples of how to make reversing loops never mention trackage inside the loop. I've not actually got the hardware so I can't test it for myself. |
Re: Reversing Loops again
开云体育I think that the loop you refer to is the inner track on the left-hand side of the upper diagram (I cannot read the track name due to the colour and size) . Assuming it is a DR5013 will handle that reverse easily, especially if you put it into traditional short circuit mode rather than using sensors. It should also handle the power one, unfortunately we cannot see all the plan to confirm that is the case. ? As long as the auto-reversing section is longer than your longest train then there will be no issues. ? Iain Morrison ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Oldngrey
Sent: 27 March 2023 07:44 To: [email protected] Subject: [YaMoRC] Reversing Loops again ? I have 3 different places on my layout where I need reversing loops. Here is one of them. |
Reversing Loops again
I have 3 different places on my layout where I need reversing loops. Here is one of them.
Here is a copy/paste from the 3rdPlanit software of my original main yard design. Green are double gaps, black are one rail gaps and the thin black lines are change of radius and not relevent. I was trying to figure out if there was any way to use the DR5013 to sort out the reverse loop labelled BL70R in the diagram. The boosters are different in the connecting tracks. Here is a re-design based on scenario 5.3 using S0, S1, S2 and S3 tracks. I did it to remove the use of multiple boosters and to do it the preferred way. Obviously this loses a lot of storage inside the loop. There is room to add a turnout for more storage, but how does this interact with detection sections etc. |
Thank you Karst, much appreciated. I have verified all the wiring and include the following diagram to show all wiring between each component and the 4 track pieces which are all fully isolated on each rail. Also, the DC power source is separate to the DR5033. The LEDs are part of the MP5 switching but the power & circuits are separate - just there for clarity.?
For the life of me I do not understand how the DR5033RC produces the 'Reverse' condition upon the switch from straight to branch and then the short only after it returns back to the straight position as per my description originally posted.? Do you see anything physically obvious? Or, should I have to start looking at configuration within DR5033 or DR5088RC? ? |
Hi PJ, ? It seems to me, there is something wrong with either your turnout and/or it's wiring.. Since you are not using the YD7100's output, we can rule that out. Interesting is however, that the 5033's blue light comes on. That means it detects a short circuit while you are switching the turnout. And solves it by autoreversing.? Then switching back to straight again causes a short. But this time the 5033 cannot resolve it and throws a Short to the LocoNet and turns the red Short-LED on. so IMHO you'll need to look how exactly you connected your MP1 and Turnout. To solve these kind of problems an Image of the connections usually is very helpful. Karst ? ? |
I have #YD7001 connected to #DR5033 via LocoNet B, DR5033 connected via Track Output to #DR5088RC to Rails. K=Outer Rail, J=Inner Rail. The YD7001 track Output is only connected to the YD8116 Track Input.? The #YD8116 has 12vDC connected to switch #MP5 turnout motors. Trains can run Straight through the Turnout & through the Branch. No Shorts & wiring confirmed correct.
Power up System, Turnout is set Straight. DR5033 green led on. Trains have power on Straight & Branch. Trains can run. Using iTrain, I click the turnout. It switches to Branch. DR5033 'Reverse' blue light comes on (not sure why). However, Train can run through the turnout, no shorts...all good. Feedbacks report correctly as train passes from Branch to Turnout to next section. Can back the train back into the branch; all works fine. Here is the issue: However, as soon as I click the turnout to return to straight, YD7001 Stops (red flashing) with Short indicator flashing. DR5033 Reverse Blue led still on, short red led on, power green led flashing. No power to the track. The YD7001 program on Laptop displays in red writing in bottom right corner, BOOSTER 7. If I pull power to the DR5033 then reconnect power, the DR5033 power is flashing green. I then press GO on YD7001, power returns to track and trains can run again. No shorts etc. All is good until I repeat the turnout to branch & return back to Straight. I'm at a loss. Help. |
Re: Circuit Breakers
Andris, I don't think that DCC should be done entirely as a low-bid contract, but if that's the only metric you're looking at Digitrax just dominates almost everything else. If anything, the smaller the boosters, the more total amps you'll need, and the higher the cost will be for the smaller boosters. I don't think spare boosters are really necessary, and I don't think it's fair to include them in a cost comparison. A spare command station makes more sense, in the Digitrax world this could serve as a booster during normal operations. The command station could also normally run with no load, or a lightly loaded accessory bus, and also be the backup booster. Or a lightly loaded district could be identified to cross-tie if a booster does go out, which AFAIK, is a very rare occurrence. The Digitrax power supplies are ridiculously overpriced, it's one of the few things that they do poorly on cost wise, most of the rest of their stuff is quite cost effective. There are a lot of alternative power supplies available, and they are often MUCH cheaper, especially for the DB220s. I have a ~$25 power supply running my DCS240 that's specifically advertised on eBay for the purpose. The cost of bus wiring is an interesting and salient point. The whole "DCC goes 30 feet" thing is a BS myth, there are many layouts pushing DCC power well over 100', and it works fine given the proper wire gauge. You are correct, however, to point out that copper is not cheap, and nor is the wire. It gets really squirrely really quickly, but when you get into things like accessory buses, it is often cheaper to "waste" the "precious" DCC power on accessories that don't need DCC, or can be powered separately via DC than to run yet another bus that uses more expensive copper wire. So running 14 gauge buses from the YaMoRC boosters may well save a significant amount of wiring cost versus running larger, longer main 12 gauge buses to circuit breakers that feed 14 gauge track buses. There are probably also some technical advantages to having the boosters closer to the districts in terms of electrical noise and signal quality. Overall, from what I've seen of the initial pricing, YaMoRC appears to be quite competitive price wise, in keeping with what Digikeijs has done, and arguably shouldn't really be compared to a legacy system like Digitrax, and only to its modern system peers in Digikeijs, ESU, Roco, and TCS. Alex On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 11:11?PM Andris Cuksts <andriscuksts@...> wrote: Alex, --
Alexander Wood Hartford-New Haven, CT Modeling the modern era freelanced G&W Connecticut Northern in HO Digikeijs DR5000 - JMRI - ProtoThrottle - TCS UWT-100 - TCS UWT-50p - Digitrax Simplex |
Re: YD6016LN-RC inputs going to waste
Well, making the DR5033 autoreverse was one of my biggest mistakes. It not only caused/causes quite some problems with customers who do not really understand reverse-loops. But also one does not detect incorrect wiring as the booster autoreverses. So the YD7403 will not have that "feature". ? Further, the DR5013 contains RailCom circuitry and delivers (occupation) feedback and RailCom data over LocoNet. So no extra feedback modules needed there. Greets, Karst |