开云体育

ctrl + shift + ? for shortcuts
© 2025 开云体育
  1. YaMoRC-Digikeijs
  2. Topics

False Positives YD6016

 

I have recently experienced an issue with false positive feedbacks on two YD6016 boxes, one was an LN and the other an ES unit.?
?
I am aware if a solution that Iain M shared in a post some time ago using 500 ohm resistors on the DR4018 units which were over sensitive but was surprised to see the same issue on the new YD units.?

The problem occurred on the second day of running at a model railway show, and it occurred on both boxes at around the same time. The layout had need running on the previous day all day with no issues. On the second day after about 5 hours we noticed 2 false positives, on different sections of the layout, one on a YD6016LN and the other on a YD6016ES (both connected together).
?
Yesterday I set up the layout again to try and resolve this problem but the problem had disappeared! ?At the show we reset the layout several times but could not clear the issue. our only solution on the day was to remove the feedbacks from Itrain and run the layout in a much reduced way.?

Any thoughts on how I might protect myself from this re-occurring as it caused considerable disruption at the show.?

?
Thankyou?
?
?
--
Dave, Portland
Church Hope Model Railway
/?
 

开云体育

Dave,

?

I am also surprised with your mail, especially as this is the second case I have heard of in as many days and I understood that the different design of the YD6016xx compared to the DR4088xx (note not the DR4018 ?). In the other case it proved to be ballast that was causing the issue because the fixing PVA was bridging across the rails – could a similar situation be affecting you?

?

Iain

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave via groups.io
Sent: 02 October 2024 07:43
To: [email protected]
Subject: False Positives YD6016

?

I have recently experienced an issue with false positive feedbacks on two YD6016 boxes, one was an LN and the other an ES unit.?

?

I am aware if a solution that Iain M shared in a post some time ago using 500 ohm resistors on the DR4018 units which were over sensitive but was surprised to see the same issue on the new YD units.?

The problem occurred on the second day of running at a model railway show, and it occurred on both boxes at around the same time. The layout had need running on the previous day all day with no issues. On the second day after about 5 hours we noticed 2 false positives, on different sections of the layout, one on a YD6016LN and the other on a YD6016ES (both connected together).

?

Yesterday I set up the layout again to try and resolve this problem but the problem had disappeared! ?At the show we reset the layout several times but could not clear the issue. our only solution on the day was to remove the feedbacks from Itrain and run the layout in a much reduced way.?

Any thoughts on how I might protect myself from this re-occurring as it caused considerable disruption at the show.?

?

Thankyou?

?

?

--

Dave, Portland
Church Hope Model Railway
/?
 

On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 05:18 AM, Iain Morrison wrote:
In the other case it proved to be ballast that was causing the issue because the fixing PVA was bridging across the rails
I experienced an even weirder reason on several shows: High temperatures and/or humidity. This could cause ( and did in my case ) occasional bridging of the section gaps...? Next day with lower temps and dry weather, the problem was gone.



Here is another option to "tame" input spikes. It however does not help in case of bridging ( as an extra resistor does not )

Greets,
Karst
 

After another day testing today we are no further ahead. However, the problem has in some ways got worse!
?
We have had 6 or 7 false positives today but all could be cleared by activating the false feedbacks using ?track tester or a finger across the rails.?

Should we now be adding the resistors between the feedback and the C terminal?
?
thankyou
--
Dave, Portland
Church Hope Model Railway
/?
 
Edited

Testing Day 2
?
we have added 470ohm resistors to all feedback on one of our DR4088LN CS Boxes.
After several hours of running a single train around the layout one feedback failed to de-activate when leaving the block.?

This feedback remained active even when we removed the feed from the DR4088LN.?

The activity light on the box was not flashing when the false positive showed red on Itrain.?

The activity light flashes correctly when another block is activated.?

The problem was cleared by placing a track tester across the block showing the false positive.?

Any help much appreciated!
--
Dave, Portland
Church Hope Model Railway
/?
 

On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 10:44 AM, Dave wrote:
We have had 6 or 7 false positives today but all could be cleared by activating the false feedbacks using ?track tester or a finger across the rails.?
Okay.... that's not false positive, that's stuck positive....? So it looks like you're on the wrong foot.

we have added 470ohm resistors to all feedback on one of our DR4088LN CS Boxes.
After several hours of running a single train around the layout one feedback failed to de-activate when leaving the block.?

This feedback remained active even when we removed the feed from the DR4088LN.?
?
As I already wrote, resistors on a YD6016xx-CS don't help. But acrually you are notalking about the Digikeijs modules, not the YaMoRC ones ??

Those "stuck" feedback originate almostt 100% sure from comminications problem. Either between Modules and the Command Station and/or from Command Station to iTrain.

Question: Which connection/protocol do you use to connect iTrain to your command station?

Greets,
Karst

P.S. the DR4088LN are notorious for messing up LocoNet communication.... The YD6016LN though should not give problems.... unless a DR4088LN has "f#%$^-ed" up the LocoNet....?
?
 

Karst
?
Thankyou for your response; it looks like we may have two problems but I can see they might be related.?

The 1st issue discussed at the start of this thread were two false feedbacks that occurred on two YAMoRc units during a show that we were unable to clear by resetting, turning off and on etc. I am unable to repeat this issue.?

The issues yesterday and today, have occurred on a DR8088LN box and as you say are better described as stuck feedbacks rather than false ones.?

We are using a Z21 black control station connected to iTrain via wireless connection to the a router which has a network cable to the Z21. ?Vehicles and feedbacks are all handled by the Z21.?


Z21 Loconet has:
  • DR4088LN connected to a DR4088 via S88
  • DR4088LN
  • YD6016LN connected to a YD6016ES via S88
  • DR5088RC
?
We use a YD7001 to manage the accessories on a seperate bus.?

we have been running the layout with setup for a couple of years with very few issues.?

The biggest problem in finding the problem is that we can run the layout for several hours with no issues before a problem occurs. But when a problem occurs at a show it can be disastrous, and really embarrassing.

Thanks again for your comments.?

Dave
?
?
--
Dave, Portland
Church Hope Model Railway
/?
 

Dave

Using WiFi with a Z21 and automation is always asking for trouble because the Z21 protocol is UDP and as a result data often gets lost. This is not a problem when using a throttle because the command is repeated regularly. An occupancy sensor message is is different from a throttle.

You are better using LocoNet over TCP, however that is not available from a Z21 and the only way to ensure that the messages are not lost, or significantly reduce the possibility of it being lost is to use a wired connection between the PC running iTrain and the Z21.

Many Thanks

Iain Morrison


On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 at 18:48, Dave via <dave=[email protected]> wrote:
Karst
?
Thankyou for your response; it looks like we may have two problems but I can see they might be related.?

The 1st issue discussed at the start of this thread were two false feedbacks that occurred on two YAMoRc units during a show that we were unable to clear by resetting, turning off and on etc. I am unable to repeat this issue.?

The issues yesterday and today, have occurred on a DR8088LN box and as you say are better described as stuck feedbacks rather than false ones.?

We are using a Z21 black control station connected to iTrain via wireless connection to the a router which has a network cable to the Z21.? Vehicles and feedbacks are all handled by the Z21.?


Z21 Loconet has:
  • DR4088LN connected to a DR4088 via S88
  • DR4088LN
  • YD6016LN connected to a YD6016ES via S88
  • DR5088RC
?
We use a YD7001 to manage the accessories on a seperate bus.?

we have been running the layout with setup for a couple of years with very few issues.?

The biggest problem in finding the problem is that we can run the layout for several hours with no issues before a problem occurs. But when a problem occurs at a show it can be disastrous, and really embarrassing.

Thanks again for your comments.?

Dave
?
?
--
Dave, Portland
Church Hope Model Railway
/?
 

Thank you Iain, we will certainly do that.?
--
Dave, Portland
Church Hope Model Railway
/?
 

On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 10:56 AM, Iain Morrison wrote:
You are better using LocoNet over TCP, however that is not available from a Z21 and the only way to ensure that the messages are not lost, or significantly reduce the possibility of it being lost is to use a wired connection between the PC running iTrain and the Z21.
Or.... Use the YD7001 for the feedbacks as well.

Then you've got the option to use LAN ( LocoNet TCP/IP Binary ) or USB.

Greets,
Karst

1 - 10 of 10