Don , Let's start chasing down this buzz. I want you to take out the signal wires and no power going to the DR4018 and turn on track power. if there's no buzzing then It's not the turnout. Next put the signal wires back in so the blue wire is to the right (inside ) and turn on track power If It's still buzzing turn off track power and remove all of the ?but one?DR4101 and remove the common wire, and turn on track power and see if its buzzing still. If still buzzing ,turn off track power and put the common back and take of one of the blue wires. let us Know how that goes. It's always a pain in the ass to find a grounding problem ( The buzzing )
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Dennis, ? ? ? ? ? ? ?It is set for preset 0.
On Wed, May 27, 2020, 4:31 PM Dennis Cherry < dbcherry@...> wrote: Just looking over the information on this topic, what Preset are you using?
It should be Preset 0.
Did I miss this in the topic?
Dennis
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Just looking over the information on this topic, what Preset are you using?
It should be Preset 0.
Did I miss this in the topic?
Dennis
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Locked
Re: Programming a DR4018 for multiple functions
Preset CV47 = 6 Your ID's 1-5 is for your stall motors (Out 1-10) ID's 6-11 will be ON/OFF lights at full intensity. If you want to lower the intensity of a light just change the first CV from 15 to between 1-15 ID ???????? CV???????????? CV????????????? CV #6??????? 123 = 15 ? ? 172 = 4 ? ? ? 175 = 0 ??? Out 11 #7??????? 124 = 15???? 177 = 8?????? 181 = 0???? Out 12 #8??????? 125 = 15???? 184 = 16???? 187 = 0???? Out 13 #9??????? 126 = 15???? 190 = 32?? ? 193 = 0???? Out 14 #10????? 127 = 15???? 196 = 64?? ? 199 = 0???? Out 15 #11????? 128 = 15????? 202 =128?? 205 = 0???? Out 16 Correction on ID's 6-8 PDF of WorksheetDennis
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Dennis, ? ? ? ? ? ? ?The RRampmeter is soldered in to the main buss wires and mounted into my fascia, I was hoping to not remove it until it's a last resort.
? ? ? ? ? ? ?The DR5000 is set to 3000 output.
? ? ? ? ? ? ?I have visually triple checked all feeder drops to make sure none are reversed. I have a boxcar painted blue on one side and white on the other. This matches my feeder wiring colors. I can roll the boxcar around the track to confirm where the blue & white feeders are to be located. Makes it easy to not get confused when the track curves in different directions.?
? ? ? ? ? ? ?Most of my Kato turnouts have insulated rail joiners on the thru & diverging routes. There are 2 that do not, they lead into a yard and small engine facility. They will eventually get insulated after I drop feeders to those areas. On Wed, May 27, 2020, 2:34 PM Dennis Cherry < dbcherry@...> wrote: Great, that tells me it is working.
My thoughts are:
1. Add the RRAmpmeter to the test bed and see what is happening, if that works then:
2. Check the DR5000 that it is set for 3000ma. and not 1500ma.
3. Check that you have not accidentally reversed a buss wire drops to your track, meter and check you did not reverse a drop.
4. I watched a video of someone who uses the Kato Turnouts and he isolates both rails on the threw and diverging routes.
go to about 5:15 on the video.
Dennis
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Re: DR4088 LN CS wiring, twisted or not, ? help a confused newbee! but do i keep them parallel?
LocoNet is not RS-485. RS-485 is a master/slave polled serial bus, whereas LocoNet is a peer to peer CSMA/CD network much like Ethernet, just running way slower so that it works over flat cabling and various topologies. NCE cab bus, Lenz XPressNET, and C/MRI use various implementations of RS-485, with NCE running at 9600 baud, and XPressNet running at 62.5kbps. Those numbers can be compared to each other, but not to LocoNet's?~17kbps bandwidth, as LocoNet is far more efficient in using that bandwidth due to CSMA/CD not having the polling overhead.
LocoNet is not designed to be run on twisted pair wiring, but I don't fully understand why. NCE is now encouraging the use of twisted pair CAT-5e cables with their new throttle panels, but I think that's more about carrying more DC power for throttles than anything to do with their RS-485 bus signal.
The sensor inputs are not balanced although they will be at the DCC frequency of 18241(approx) Hz. Whilst there may well be 'ringing' at the rising and falling edge of the signal, sampling time should be at the settled state of the signal (approx 80?s). However the DR4088 (or at least mine does - DR4088LN) uses current sensing to detect presence or otherwise of a loco or resistor wheelset and at that frequency, the tail wiring shouldn't need to be twisted tough it shouldn't do any harm if it is.
The Loconet bus will be a balanced signal bus which, I believe it uses EIA RS-485 signalling between the 4088 and Command Station and therefore should be a twisted pair for noise rejection, especially if the signal run is a significant length. It should not need to be shielded but in the electrically noisy model railway environment that should be considered. The idea of a balanced signal is intended that induced noise will be cancelled out and thus longer cable runs are possible. RS-485 is a relatively low speed bus compared with CAN-bus and ethernet UTP (TIA-568) though these busses work in noisy environments too.
Enough waffle! I wouldn't worry about twisted pairs on the track to DR4088 wiring - mine is a real rat's nest but it works. On the DR4088 to command station cables use good quality pre-made RJ-12 'phone cables which should have twisted signal pairs (I don't remember the TIA spec number). I have 50cm, 1m, 3m and 5m in use without issues.
-- Alexander Wood Wethersfield, CT
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Great, that tells me it is working.
My thoughts are:
1. Add the RRAmpmeter to the test bed and see what is happening, if that works then:
2. Check the DR5000 that it is set for 3000ma. and not 1500ma.
3. Check that you have not accidentally reversed a buss wire drops to your track, meter and check you did not reverse a drop.
4. I watched a video of someone who uses the Kato Turnouts and he isolates both rails on the threw and diverging routes.
go to about 5:15 on the video.
Dennis
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Re: DR5000 Network Interfaces.
Ian
Around the beginning of 2019 we inquired to find out if the DR5000 WiFi and LAN could use different protocols and were told no.? This was for our test environment when we were evaluating the DR5000 for use on our club layout.? As far as I know this has not changed.? It may be an underlying hardware limitation - the Raspberry PI has a similar limitation.
What software does the user want to use to control his layout?? ?If we knew more specifics there might be a way to accomplish what the user wants to do
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Dennis, ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Yes, I have done that. I completely disconnected the DR5000 from the layout and ran the track output wires of the DR5000 straight to the DR4018 signal inputs. I then connected a Kato turnout using a DR4101 to the DR4018. I then connected a 12v 3a wall wart power supply to the power inputs on the DR4018. When track power was turned on there was no buzzing noise from the turnout. I also tried the exact same setup except with the DR5000 connected to a laptop via USB. I ran the DR5000 software so I could throw the turnout and it worked as it should.
On Wed, May 27, 2020, 12:24 PM Dennis Cherry < dbcherry@...> wrote: I understand, say the post,? just trying to find what is going on.
I am an old technician, trying to eliminate possible problems on your setup.
I would like to see if you have tested the turnout as standalone? connected to a DR5000.? I have an idea of the problem.
Just the DR4018 with DCC and DC power and the Kato turnout with the DR4101 connected.Nothing else connected to the DR4018
Dennis
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I understand, saw the post,? just trying to find what is going on.
I am an old technician, trying to eliminate possible problems on your setup.
I would like to see if you have tested the turnout as standalone connected to a DR5000.? I have an idea of the problem.
Just the DR4018 with DCC and DC power and the Kato turnout with the DR4101 connected.Nothing else connected to the DR4018.
Dennis
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Re: DR4088 LN CS wiring, twisted or not, ? help a confused newbee! but do i keep them parallel?
The sensor inputs are not balanced although they will be at the DCC frequency of 18241(approx) Hz. Whilst there may well be 'ringing' at the rising and falling edge of the signal, sampling time should be at the settled state of the signal (approx 80?s). However the DR4088 (or at least mine does - DR4088LN) uses current sensing to detect presence or otherwise of a loco or resistor wheelset and at that frequency, the tail wiring shouldn't need to be twisted tough it shouldn't do any harm if it is.
The Loconet bus will be a balanced signal bus which, I believe it uses EIA RS-485 signalling between the 4088 and Command Station and therefore should be a twisted pair for noise rejection, especially if the signal run is a significant length. It should not need to be shielded but in the electrically noisy model railway environment that should be considered. The idea of a balanced signal is intended that induced noise will be cancelled out and thus longer cable runs are possible. RS-485 is a relatively low speed bus compared with CAN-bus and ethernet UTP (TIA-568) though these busses work in noisy environments too.
Enough waffle! I wouldn't worry about twisted pairs on the track to DR4088 wiring - mine is a real rat's nest but it works. On the DR4088 to command station cables use good quality pre-made RJ-12 'phone cables which should have twisted signal pairs (I don't remember the TIA spec number). I have 50cm, 1m, 3m and 5m in use without issues.
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Dennis, ? ? ? ? ? ? ?I have not removed the RRampmeter. Ryan from Iron Planet ran some tests with a RRampmeter, DR5000, DR4018 and a Kato turnout and was unable to reproduce the buzzing noise.
On Wed, May 27, 2020, 8:10 AM Dennis Cherry < dbcherry@...> wrote: Don:
Did you try removing the RRAmpmeter and see if it makes a difference?
Dennis
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Locked
Re: Programming a DR4018 for multiple functions
Hi James,
That would work and I think is the way I've currently got the last 4018 setup (ie. all preset 6 for my MTB's)? ?So I was hoping to add the relevant CV's to switch the last three outputs to lights for ports 11 - 16.
Many thanks,
Stu...
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Locked
Re: Programming a DR4018 for multiple functions
Hello Suart Would be alot easier?to do this the other way round the first out put?for the motors CV47 to a value?to 6.
The other output?for the light would this be ok? If so I will send across?the CV to change.
James
Hey Dennis,
I'd like to also learn from this as I have six ports on the end of my last 4018 that I'd like to use for lighting.? Outputs 6,7 & 8 (ports 11 through 16). The reat are running MTB point motors on that unit.
Many thanks,
Stuart.
-- Many Thanks James Hudson DCC Train Automation
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Re: DR5000 Network Interfaces
I use Rocrail on a RaspberryPi connected to my DR5000 using Loconet over LAN. I do not use the WiFi at all. I have a Roco Multimouse connected directly to the DR5000 using the XN+FB port. So the network is not the same as propsed. However, the Multimouse does control Locos and DCC connected accessory decoders while the LAN is active and (different) devices controlled by Rocrail. I wouldn't be surprised if manual operation with the multimouse would confuse? Rocrail however! I must say the multimouse is most useful for testing devices even though I have to remember to increase the accessory addresses by 1.
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Locked
Re: Programming a DR4018 for multiple functions
Stuart:
What is your default CV 47 number?
LED or Incandescent?
Dennis
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James Good Afternoon Thank You for your reply Thank you for that info I am using Fleischmann Profi track and the points that go with them.you probably do not remember me but you set? up My Hag Sbb Shunters ( Pope mobile )? for the electronic?Uncouplers now they put them on as standard.? Kind regards Barbara
On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 14:01, James < James@...> wrote: Hello Barbara No you can not use a CDU with?the DR4018 and this is not designed to work seep or peco solenoid?point motor either.
James
James Good Morning Thank you for your reply. I have just finished testing 40 point Motors in conjuction with a CDU i have now worked out how the 3 way point works. I am going to set up the 4018 and try a few options.? Can you use a CDU with the 4018 or is there no need? Thank you Barbara
Three way points are two separate points put together as one unit. You just need to find out if the turnout mechanism is, a single or twin coil machine. Once you Know what you have you can then set up two slots in a 4018 for the three way turnout.
--
Many Thanks James Hudson DCC Train Automation
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Locked
Re: Programming a DR4018 for multiple functions
Hey Dennis,
I'd like to also learn from this as I have six ports on the end of my last 4018 that I'd like to use for lighting.? Outputs 6,7 & 8 (ports 11 through 16). The reat are running MTB point motors on that unit.
Many thanks,
Stuart.
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Hello Barbara No you can not use a CDU with?the DR4018 and this is not designed to work seep or peco solenoid?point motor either.
James
James Good Morning Thank you for your reply. I have just finished testing 40 point Motors in conjuction with a CDU i have now worked out how the 3 way point works. I am going to set up the 4018 and try a few options.? Can you use a CDU with the 4018 or is there no need? Thank you Barbara
Three way points are two separate points put together as one unit. You just need to find out if the turnout mechanism is, a single or twin coil machine. Once you Know what you have you can then set up two slots in a 4018 for the three way turnout.
-- Many Thanks James Hudson DCC Train Automation
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Don:
Did you try removing the RRAmpmeter and see if it makes a difference?
Did you test bench the DR4018 using the Kato Turnout before installing the units on the layout?
Dennis
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