Re: Spark plug NGK for Jabiru
They are just CYA ing. Not to provide spark plugs for aircraft.
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On May 5, 2022, at 6:16 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
I just replaced all my spark plugs to the same NGK d9ea and they work great. Some other pilots told me to get a spark plug with R rating due to the fact that it has a resistor to potentially keep radio feedback down but I could not find any locally and I did
not want to deviate from the recommended make and model of what is required
I will be just legal issues, they don't want to get involved in an aircraft accident where the spark plugs may be at fault I am guessing
Bernhard Svavarsson wrote on 6/05/2022 7:18 am:
Little bit dilemma here. The Jabiru manual recommends using NGK spark plug for the engine but NGK says that NGK should NOY be used on aircraft engines. Is this due to legal or secuity reasons or both?
--
With regards, Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name: xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do. Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
|
Re: Spark plug NGK for Jabiru
I used them in my XAir for years with no issues. ? I figured if Jabiru was ok with them then that was fine. ? Geoff Gartshore Zenith CH200 GCUD Waterloo, Ontario?
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On May 5, 2022, at 7:15 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
I just replaced all my spark plugs to the same NGK d9ea and they work great. Some other pilots told me to get a spark plug with R rating due to the fact that it has a resistor to potentially keep radio feedback down but I could not find any locally and I did
not want to deviate from the recommended make and model of what is required
I will be just legal issues, they don't want to get involved in an aircraft accident where the spark plugs may be at fault I am guessing
Bernhard Svavarsson wrote on 6/05/2022 7:18 am:
Little bit dilemma here. The Jabiru manual recommends using NGK spark plug for the engine but NGK says that NGK should NOY be used on aircraft engines. Is this due to legal or secuity reasons or both?
--
With regards, Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name: xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do. Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
|
Re: Spark plug NGK for Jabiru
I just replaced all my spark plugs to the same NGK d9ea and they work great. Some other pilots told me to get a spark plug with R rating due to the fact that it has a resistor to potentially keep radio feedback down but I could not find any locally and I did
not want to deviate from the recommended make and model of what is required
I will be just legal issues, they don't want to get involved in an aircraft accident where the spark plugs may be at fault I am guessing
Bernhard Svavarsson wrote on 6/05/2022 7:18 am:
Little bit dilemma here. The Jabiru manual recommends using NGK spark plug for the engine but NGK says that NGK should NOY be used on aircraft engines. Is this due to legal or secuity reasons or both?
--
With regards, Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name: xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do. Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
|
Re: Spark plug NGK for Jabiru
I will be just legal issues, they don't want to get involved in an
aircraft accident where the spark plugs may be at fault I am
guessing
Bernhard Svavarsson wrote on 6/05/2022
7:18 am:
Little bit dilemma here. The Jabiru manual recommends using NGK spark plug for the engine but NGK says that NGK should NOY be used on aircraft engines. Is this due to legal or secuity reasons or both?
--
With regards, Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name: xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do. Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
|
Spark plug NGK for Jabiru
Little bit dilemma here. The Jabiru manual recommends using NGK spark plug for the engine but NGK says that NGK should NOY be used on aircraft engines. Is this due to legal or secuity reasons or both?
|
Re: X Air Hanuman: engine-out
This is great to hear Justin!
Get
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...Thought i'd share my experience that I went through today with everyone:
After the mishap (first flight of the year; electrical and mechanical issues) a few days ago, I didn't sleep much, but rather spent the time researching and researching some more.
I still can't fully understand what exactly happened, but today was relieving and exhilarating- 11 take-offs and landings with no issues whatsoever. I removed the new 2lb "intelligent" battery and re-installed the old 16lb battery. I also turned the idle set
screw back to its position prior to the Rotax mechanic servicing my Jabiru/Bing carb.
After lots of speculating, here is what I think happened with my electrical circuit breakers tripping both 3A transponder and 15A master: the new battery only puts out 6 amp hours of current, plus it has some 'intelligent' circuitry installed within it, whereby
reacting a lot faster to over/under voltage, over/under current, and other situations that may impact both series and parallel circuits within the system. I think it was being too sensitive, plus not enough amp hours, like the old 16 amp hour, 16lb AGM battery.
Another potential culprit (although quite rare) may have also contributed to the high frequency sound in my headset as soon as i left ground/earth: I was using a large 4'x4' microfiber towel to clean all the dust off the plane since it is barn hangered throughout
the winter. Anytime I use a microfiber towel, the hairs on my arms and hands stand up, so I couldnt only imagine how it may have reactyed to my plane leaving earth/ground reference. I know it may sound farfetched, but you never know; static imoacts electronics
more than some may think.
When dealing with my engine shutting off without notice as soon as I touched the ground was not because of an air pocket but rather from the instantaneous impact of landing and its effect on the idle level on the carb. Although I did a static test after lowering
the RPM, the Rotax dealer said he has seen time and time again; an even-lower RPM drop after the carb has been subjected to not only a fine-tune adjustment, but also impact/vibration. That is what I believed casued my engine to quit as soon as my wheels 'bounced'
off the ground from the first landing of the year / in 5 months of no-flying.
Needless to say, this is a lesson for me. I thought I was saving significant weight with a lithium ion battery, with the inclusion of an extra 150+CCA. I did not however, pay attention to the amp-hour rating as well as any other features a different battery
may have from the original battery.
The flight today was a blast and everything was running as it should.
I even swtiched from 100LL to Shell V Power 91 and it runs cleaner, after inspecting the valves; I can notice the lead/carbon residue being disturbed and eventually burned, which is another relief.
The propeller spinner nose cone even reduced the CHT by about 3-4 degrees celcius, which I was also glad to see.
|
Re: X Air Hanuman: engine-out
...Thought i'd share my experience that I went through today with everyone:
After the mishap (first flight of the year; electrical and mechanical issues) a few days ago, I didn't sleep much, but rather spent the time researching and researching some more.
I still can't fully understand what exactly happened, but today was relieving and exhilarating- 11 take-offs and landings with no issues whatsoever. I removed the new 2lb "intelligent" battery and re-installed the old 16lb battery. I also turned the idle set screw back to its position prior to the Rotax mechanic servicing my Jabiru/Bing carb.
After lots of speculating, here is what I think happened with my electrical circuit breakers tripping both 3A transponder and 15A master: the new battery only puts out 6 amp hours of current, plus it has some 'intelligent' circuitry installed within it, whereby reacting a lot faster to over/under voltage, over/under current, and other situations that may impact both series and parallel circuits within the system. I think it was being too sensitive, plus not enough amp hours, like the old 16 amp hour, 16lb AGM battery. Another potential culprit (although quite rare) may have also contributed to the high frequency sound in my headset as soon as i left ground/earth: I was using a large 4'x4' microfiber towel to clean all the dust off the plane since it is barn hangered throughout the winter. Anytime I use a microfiber towel, the hairs on my arms and hands stand up, so I couldnt only imagine how it may have reactyed to my plane leaving earth/ground reference. I know it may sound farfetched, but you never know; static imoacts electronics more than some may think.
When dealing with my engine shutting off without notice as soon as I touched the ground was not because of an air pocket but rather from the instantaneous impact of landing and its effect on the idle level on the carb. Although I did a static test after lowering the RPM, the Rotax dealer said he has seen time and time again; an even-lower RPM drop after the carb has been subjected to not only a fine-tune adjustment, but also impact/vibration. That is what I believed casued my engine to quit as soon as my wheels 'bounced' off the ground from the first landing of the year / in 5 months of no-flying.
Needless to say, this is a lesson for me. I thought I was saving significant weight with a lithium ion battery, with the inclusion of an extra 150+CCA. I did not however, pay attention to the amp-hour rating as well as any other features a different battery may have from the original battery.
The flight today was a blast and everything was running as it should.
I even swtiched from 100LL to Shell V Power 91 and it runs cleaner, after inspecting the valves; I can notice the lead/carbon residue being disturbed and eventually burned, which is another relief.
The propeller spinner nose cone even reduced the CHT by about 3-4 degrees celcius, which I was also glad to see.
|
Re: X Air Hanuman: engine-out
Could the transponder 3amp circuit breaker tripping and then my master 15amp circuit breaker tripping be due to a different battery than what my X Air had?
Previous battery: Odyssey PC680:
Specifications
Pulse (5-second) Hot Cranking Amps (PHCA): 520
Cold Cranking Amps (CCA): 170
20Hr Nominal Capacity (Ah): 16
Reserve Capacity Minutes: 24
Dimensions L x W x H (in): 7.15 x 3.00 x 6.65
Weight (lbs): 15.4
New battery: aerovoltz AI Series 360CCA:
Negative Terminal Location: DUAL
Weight: (2.6 lbs.)
Voltage (Charged): 13.6V
Lead Acid Equivalent Amperage: 6.9 A/H @ 10 A/H Rating
Pulse Cranking Amps: 360amps
Operating Environment: -18°C (0°F) to 60°C (140°F)
I purchased this new battery because how light it is and it says it's good for the Jabiru right on their website.
The only major difference between the old battery and this new one is amp hours from 16AH to 6.1AH.
Could that have caused the main 15amp breaker to trip?
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Get a 912 and in my opinion save yourself a lot of trouble
On 1 May 2022, at 10:36, Mo Davies via groups.io <modavies@...> wrote:
?
Many years ago, we had a series of engine stoppages with an early Jab.? We tried all manner of tricks to prevent carb icing, and I used to climb up to several thousand feet, throttle back and decend to see if we had affected a
cure after every modification.? The engine only ever stopped on me? in the circuit, never during these tests!? Frequently stopping on the "final glide".? I got to the state where I refused to go around, no matter how bad the landing, as opening the throttle
would cause the engine to splutter and die every time.
The final cure was to fit small electric heaters onto the body of the Carb.? I would switch them on before every descent and switch them off for normal flight and this cured the problem for me.? The sump oil carb heat did not work adequately in the UK climate
whilst descending.
Another pilot said, subsequent to his accident, that he left the heater turned off "to save the battery" he restarted the engine three times in the circuit after it had stopped, but still failed to turn on the heater. (This same mentality causes drivers to
drive on parking lights when in their cars, which makes them virtually invisible after dark.) ? The final stoppage was too low to affect a restart and the crash wrote of the aircraft.
The problem with the carb was finally cured with electric carb heat, but there is no cure for stupidity!
Cheers,
Mo Davies.
.? Justin Gregoris wrote:
Good afternoon Gents
Background: Jabiru 2200 Bing carburetor was fully serviced for the first time in 14 years by Rotax dealer; also who was my flight instructor who taught me how to fly.
Since the carburetor was off, I decided to route new fuel lines since I did not have a bypass line with a one-way check valve. I also replaced my fuel pump with a brand new fuel pump with a built-in check valve.
Yesterday, I put fresh fuel in and started up the motor for about 10 or 12 minutes and then did a static run test. I went full power for about 10 seconds and then slam their throttle right down to idle to see if it would stall. It did not install. I did this
multiple times on the ground.
Today, I fired up the engine and warmed it up as usual and then did a static run before my first flight of the year. I was flying with a pilot that has 48 years of flying experience in over 30 aircraft.
The takeoff went great but then the master breaker popped as well as my 3 amp transponder breaker also popping. I don't know why this happened as it never happened before but I pushed back in the master breaker and we continue flying without any issues.
As we were approaching to land my airplane everything was going well. I was coming in a little too fast so as soon as I was over the runway I moved the throttle right back to idle position at which point I flared too early and the airplane ballooned a little
bit but nothing crazy. When a lightly kissed the ground and the nose went up the engine all of a sudden installed and the propeller stopped turning. Luckily at that point I was able to land without any hard effects but both of us were extremely shocked the
engine stalled. Thank goodness it was literally right at the end. It easily fired back up and then I did another static run and slammed it back to idle and it did not stop.
I am scratching my head as to why it's stalled. It has never ever done this before. I forgot to use electric boost pump when I was landing which may have helped the issue not even happen? Perhaps it was an air bubble or air pocket that was trapped in the brand
new fuel line?
I do not have any fuel leaks right now or smell any fuel and all my brand new lines are bone dry.
I think it is coincidental that the master breaker and the transponder breaker popping has nothing to do with the engine stopping. But that has never happened to me either.
yesterday I noticed my engine idling at about 12:00 or 1300 RPM so this morning I took out my 7 mm wrench to try and lower the idle stop screw at which point it did and now it idles at about 1,000 RPM.
Any guidance as to the culprits of the engine stopping is greatly appreciated as I intend to fly in 2 days from now and do not want this to happen again. Thank you
?
|
Re: X Air Hanuman: engine-out
Get a 912 and in my opinion save yourself a lot of trouble
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 1 May 2022, at 10:36, Mo Davies via groups.io <modavies@...> wrote:
?
Many years ago, we had a series of
engine stoppages with an early Jab.? We tried all manner of tricks
to prevent carb icing, and I used to climb up to several thousand
feet, throttle back and decend to see if we had affected a cure
after every modification.? The engine only ever stopped on me? in
the circuit, never during these tests!? Frequently stopping on the
"final glide".? I got to the state where I refused to go around,
no matter how bad the landing, as opening the throttle would cause
the engine to splutter and die every time.
The final cure was to fit small electric heaters onto the body of
the Carb.? I would switch them on before every descent and switch
them off for normal flight and this cured the problem for me.? The
sump oil carb heat did not work adequately in the UK climate
whilst descending.
Another pilot said, subsequent to his accident, that he left the
heater turned off "to save the battery" he restarted the engine
three times in the circuit after it had stopped, but still failed
to turn on the heater. (This same mentality causes drivers to
drive on parking lights when in their cars, which makes them
virtually invisible after dark.) ? The final stoppage was too low
to affect a restart and the crash wrote of the aircraft.
The problem with the carb was finally cured with electric carb
heat, but there is no cure for stupidity!
Cheers,
Mo Davies.
.? Justin Gregoris wrote:
Good afternoon Gents
Background: Jabiru 2200 Bing carburetor was fully serviced for
the first time in 14 years by Rotax dealer; also who was my
flight instructor who taught me how to fly.
Since the carburetor was off, I decided to route new fuel lines
since I did not have a bypass line with a one-way check valve. I
also replaced my fuel pump with a brand new fuel pump with a
built-in check valve.
Yesterday, I put fresh fuel in and started up the motor for
about 10 or 12 minutes and then did a static run test. I went
full power for about 10 seconds and then slam their throttle
right down to idle to see if it would stall. It did not install.
I did this multiple times on the ground.
Today, I fired up the engine and warmed it up as usual and then
did a static run before my first flight of the year. I was
flying with a pilot that has 48 years of flying experience in
over 30 aircraft.
The takeoff went great but then the master breaker popped as
well as my 3 amp transponder breaker also popping. I don't know
why this happened as it never happened before but I pushed back
in the master breaker and we continue flying without any issues.
As we were approaching to land my airplane everything was going
well. I was coming in a little too fast so as soon as I was over
the runway I moved the throttle right back to idle position at
which point I flared too early and the airplane ballooned a
little bit but nothing crazy. When a lightly kissed the ground
and the nose went up the engine all of a sudden installed and
the propeller stopped turning. Luckily at that point I was able
to land without any hard effects but both of us were extremely
shocked the engine stalled. Thank goodness it was literally
right at the end. It easily fired back up and then I did another
static run and slammed it back to idle and it did not stop.
I am scratching my head as to why it's stalled. It has never
ever done this before. I forgot to use electric boost pump when
I was landing which may have helped the issue not even happen?
Perhaps it was an air bubble or air pocket that was trapped in
the brand new fuel line?
I do not have any fuel leaks right now or smell any fuel and all
my brand new lines are bone dry.
I think it is coincidental that the master breaker and the
transponder breaker popping has nothing to do with the engine
stopping. But that has never happened to me either.
yesterday I noticed my engine idling at about 12:00 or 1300 RPM
so this morning I took out my 7 mm wrench to try and lower the
idle stop screw at which point it did and now it idles at about
1,000 RPM.
Any guidance as to the culprits of the engine stopping is
greatly appreciated as I intend to fly in 2 days from now and do
not want this to happen again. Thank you
?
|
Re: X Air Hanuman: engine-out
Many years ago, we had a series of
engine stoppages with an early Jab.? We tried all manner of tricks
to prevent carb icing, and I used to climb up to several thousand
feet, throttle back and decend to see if we had affected a cure
after every modification.? The engine only ever stopped on me? in
the circuit, never during these tests!? Frequently stopping on the
"final glide".? I got to the state where I refused to go around,
no matter how bad the landing, as opening the throttle would cause
the engine to splutter and die every time.
The final cure was to fit small electric heaters onto the body of
the Carb.? I would switch them on before every descent and switch
them off for normal flight and this cured the problem for me.? The
sump oil carb heat did not work adequately in the UK climate
whilst descending.
Another pilot said, subsequent to his accident, that he left the
heater turned off "to save the battery" he restarted the engine
three times in the circuit after it had stopped, but still failed
to turn on the heater. (This same mentality causes drivers to
drive on parking lights when in their cars, which makes them
virtually invisible after dark.) ? The final stoppage was too low
to affect a restart and the crash wrote of the aircraft.
The problem with the carb was finally cured with electric carb
heat, but there is no cure for stupidity!
Cheers,
Mo Davies.
.? Justin Gregoris wrote:
Good afternoon Gents
Background: Jabiru 2200 Bing carburetor was fully serviced for
the first time in 14 years by Rotax dealer; also who was my
flight instructor who taught me how to fly.
Since the carburetor was off, I decided to route new fuel lines
since I did not have a bypass line with a one-way check valve. I
also replaced my fuel pump with a brand new fuel pump with a
built-in check valve.
Yesterday, I put fresh fuel in and started up the motor for
about 10 or 12 minutes and then did a static run test. I went
full power for about 10 seconds and then slam their throttle
right down to idle to see if it would stall. It did not install.
I did this multiple times on the ground.
Today, I fired up the engine and warmed it up as usual and then
did a static run before my first flight of the year. I was
flying with a pilot that has 48 years of flying experience in
over 30 aircraft.
The takeoff went great but then the master breaker popped as
well as my 3 amp transponder breaker also popping. I don't know
why this happened as it never happened before but I pushed back
in the master breaker and we continue flying without any issues.
As we were approaching to land my airplane everything was going
well. I was coming in a little too fast so as soon as I was over
the runway I moved the throttle right back to idle position at
which point I flared too early and the airplane ballooned a
little bit but nothing crazy. When a lightly kissed the ground
and the nose went up the engine all of a sudden installed and
the propeller stopped turning. Luckily at that point I was able
to land without any hard effects but both of us were extremely
shocked the engine stalled. Thank goodness it was literally
right at the end. It easily fired back up and then I did another
static run and slammed it back to idle and it did not stop.
I am scratching my head as to why it's stalled. It has never
ever done this before. I forgot to use electric boost pump when
I was landing which may have helped the issue not even happen?
Perhaps it was an air bubble or air pocket that was trapped in
the brand new fuel line?
I do not have any fuel leaks right now or smell any fuel and all
my brand new lines are bone dry.
I think it is coincidental that the master breaker and the
transponder breaker popping has nothing to do with the engine
stopping. But that has never happened to me either.
yesterday I noticed my engine idling at about 12:00 or 1300 RPM
so this morning I took out my 7 mm wrench to try and lower the
idle stop screw at which point it did and now it idles at about
1,000 RPM.
Any guidance as to the culprits of the engine stopping is
greatly appreciated as I intend to fly in 2 days from now and do
not want this to happen again. Thank you
?
|
Re: X Air Hanuman: engine-out
Carb ice??
I was flying 1000AGL, 17 celsius, 8knot wind from the east. Not exactly sure what the humidity was.
I have electronic carb heat but that was not on at any point throughout the flight.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I suspect it was carb ice, the first Jabiru powered std xair I built used to stop everytime when you closed the throttle on approach once we installed carb heat it sorted it out.
Seamus
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2022 10:48 PM
Subject: [XAIR] X Air Hanuman: engine-out
Good afternoon Gents
Background: Jabiru 2200 Bing carburetor was fully serviced for the first time in 14 years by Rotax dealer; also who was my flight instructor who taught me how to fly.
Since the carburetor was off, I decided to route new fuel lines since I did not have a bypass line with a one-way check valve. I also replaced my fuel pump with a brand new fuel pump with a built-in check valve.
Yesterday, I put fresh fuel in and started up the motor for about 10 or 12 minutes and then did a static run test. I went full power for about 10 seconds and then slam their throttle right down to idle to see if it would stall. It did not install. I did this
multiple times on the ground.
Today, I fired up the engine and warmed it up as usual and then did a static run before my first flight of the year. I was flying with a pilot that has 48 years of flying experience in over 30 aircraft.
The takeoff went great but then the master breaker popped as well as my 3 amp transponder breaker also popping. I don't know why this happened as it never happened before but I pushed back in the master breaker and we continue flying without any issues.
As we were approaching to land my airplane everything was going well. I was coming in a little too fast so as soon as I was over the runway I moved the throttle right back to idle position at which point I flared too early and the airplane ballooned a little
bit but nothing crazy. When a lightly kissed the ground and the nose went up the engine all of a sudden installed and the propeller stopped turning. Luckily at that point I was able to land without any hard effects but both of us were extremely shocked the
engine stalled. Thank goodness it was literally right at the end. It easily fired back up and then I did another static run and slammed it back to idle and it did not stop.
I am scratching my head as to why it's stalled. It has never ever done this before. I forgot to use electric boost pump when I was landing which may have helped the issue not even happen? Perhaps it was an air bubble or air pocket that was trapped in the brand
new fuel line?
I do not have any fuel leaks right now or smell any fuel and all my brand new lines are bone dry.
I think it is coincidental that the master breaker and the transponder breaker popping has nothing to do with the engine stopping. But that has never happened to me either.
yesterday I noticed my engine idling at about 12:00 or 1300 RPM so this morning I took out my 7 mm wrench to try and lower the idle stop screw at which point it did and now it idles at about 1,000 RPM.
Any guidance as to the culprits of the engine stopping is greatly appreciated as I intend to fly in 2 days from now and do not want this to happen again. Thank you
?
|
Re: X Air Hanuman: engine-out
?
I suspect it was carb ice, the first Jabiru powered std
xair I built used to stop everytime when you closed the throttle on approach
once we installed carb heat it sorted it out.
Seamus
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2022 10:48
PM
Subject: [XAIR] X Air Hanuman:
engine-out
Good afternoon Gents
Background: Jabiru 2200 Bing carburetor was fully serviced for the
first time in 14 years by Rotax dealer; also who was my flight instructor who
taught me how to fly.
Since the carburetor was off, I decided to route
new fuel lines since I did not have a bypass line with a one-way check valve.
I also replaced my fuel pump with a brand new fuel pump with a built-in check
valve.
Yesterday, I put fresh fuel in and started up the motor for
about 10 or 12 minutes and then did a static run test. I went full power for
about 10 seconds and then slam their throttle right down to idle to see if it
would stall. It did not install. I did this multiple times on the
ground.
Today, I fired up the engine and warmed it up as usual and then
did a static run before my first flight of the year. I was flying with a pilot
that has 48 years of flying experience in over 30 aircraft.
The takeoff
went great but then the master breaker popped as well as my 3 amp transponder
breaker also popping. I don't know why this happened as it never happened
before but I pushed back in the master breaker and we continue flying without
any issues.
As we were approaching to land my airplane everything was
going well. I was coming in a little too fast so as soon as I was over the
runway I moved the throttle right back to idle position at which point I
flared too early and the airplane ballooned a little bit but nothing crazy.
When a lightly kissed the ground and the nose went up the engine all of a
sudden installed and the propeller stopped turning. Luckily at that point I
was able to land without any hard effects but both of us were extremely
shocked the engine stalled. Thank goodness it was literally right at the end.
It easily fired back up and then I did another static run and slammed it back
to idle and it did not stop.
I am scratching my head as to why it's
stalled. It has never ever done this before. I forgot to use electric boost
pump when I was landing which may have helped the issue not even happen?
Perhaps it was an air bubble or air pocket that was trapped in the brand new
fuel line?
I do not have any fuel leaks right now or smell any fuel and
all my brand new lines are bone dry.
I think it is coincidental that
the master breaker and the transponder breaker popping has nothing to do with
the engine stopping. But that has never happened to me
either.
yesterday I noticed my engine idling at about 12:00 or 1300 RPM
so this morning I took out my 7 mm wrench to try and lower the idle stop screw
at which point it did and now it idles at about 1,000 RPM.
Any guidance
as to the culprits of the engine stopping is greatly appreciated as I intend
to fly in 2 days from now and do not want this to happen again. Thank
you
?
|
Re: X Air Hanuman: engine-out
My only concern is “slamming” the throttle …..
It is ok to aggressively pull the throttle back to idle when recovering from , for example, a spiral dive, ?but I would never “slam “ it back. ?? No idea if that gad any bearing on your problem.?
At other times throttle should be advanced or retarded more gradually …..
Regards, ?
Geoff Gartshore Zenith CH200 GCUD Waterloo, Ontario?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Apr 30, 2022, at 5:48 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?Good afternoon Gents
Background: Jabiru 2200 Bing carburetor was fully serviced for the first time in 14 years by Rotax dealer; also who was my flight instructor who taught me how to fly.
Since the carburetor was off, I decided to route new fuel lines since I did not have a bypass line with a one-way check valve. I also replaced my fuel pump with a brand new fuel pump with a built-in check valve.
Yesterday, I put fresh fuel in and started up the motor for about 10 or 12 minutes and then did a static run test. I went full power for about 10 seconds and then slam their throttle right down to idle to see if it would stall. It did not install. I did this multiple times on the ground.
Today, I fired up the engine and warmed it up as usual and then did a static run before my first flight of the year. I was flying with a pilot that has 48 years of flying experience in over 30 aircraft.
The takeoff went great but then the master breaker popped as well as my 3 amp transponder breaker also popping. I don't know why this happened as it never happened before but I pushed back in the master breaker and we continue flying without any issues.
As we were approaching to land my airplane everything was going well. I was coming in a little too fast so as soon as I was over the runway I moved the throttle right back to idle position at which point I flared too early and the airplane ballooned a little bit but nothing crazy. When a lightly kissed the ground and the nose went up the engine all of a sudden installed and the propeller stopped turning. Luckily at that point I was able to land without any hard effects but both of us were extremely shocked the engine stalled. Thank goodness it was literally right at the end. It easily fired back up and then I did another static run and slammed it back to idle and it did not stop.
I am scratching my head as to why it's stalled. It has never ever done this before. I forgot to use electric boost pump when I was landing which may have helped the issue not even happen? Perhaps it was an air bubble or air pocket that was trapped in the brand new fuel line?
I do not have any fuel leaks right now or smell any fuel and all my brand new lines are bone dry.
I think it is coincidental that the master breaker and the transponder breaker popping has nothing to do with the engine stopping. But that has never happened to me either.
yesterday I noticed my engine idling at about 12:00 or 1300 RPM so this morning I took out my 7 mm wrench to try and lower the idle stop screw at which point it did and now it idles at about 1,000 RPM.
Any guidance as to the culprits of the engine stopping is greatly appreciated as I intend to fly in 2 days from now and do not want this to happen again. Thank you
?
|
X Air Hanuman: engine-out
Good afternoon Gents
Background: Jabiru 2200 Bing carburetor was fully serviced for the first time in 14 years by Rotax dealer; also who was my flight instructor who taught me how to fly.
Since the carburetor was off, I decided to route new fuel lines since I did not have a bypass line with a one-way check valve. I also replaced my fuel pump with a brand new fuel pump with a built-in check valve.
Yesterday, I put fresh fuel in and started up the motor for about 10 or 12 minutes and then did a static run test. I went full power for about 10 seconds and then slam their throttle right down to idle to see if it would stall. It did not install. I did this multiple times on the ground.
Today, I fired up the engine and warmed it up as usual and then did a static run before my first flight of the year. I was flying with a pilot that has 48 years of flying experience in over 30 aircraft.
The takeoff went great but then the master breaker popped as well as my 3 amp transponder breaker also popping. I don't know why this happened as it never happened before but I pushed back in the master breaker and we continue flying without any issues.
As we were approaching to land my airplane everything was going well. I was coming in a little too fast so as soon as I was over the runway I moved the throttle right back to idle position at which point I flared too early and the airplane ballooned a little bit but nothing crazy. When a lightly kissed the ground and the nose went up the engine all of a sudden installed and the propeller stopped turning. Luckily at that point I was able to land without any hard effects but both of us were extremely shocked the engine stalled. Thank goodness it was literally right at the end. It easily fired back up and then I did another static run and slammed it back to idle and it did not stop.
I am scratching my head as to why it's stalled. It has never ever done this before. I forgot to use electric boost pump when I was landing which may have helped the issue not even happen? Perhaps it was an air bubble or air pocket that was trapped in the brand new fuel line?
I do not have any fuel leaks right now or smell any fuel and all my brand new lines are bone dry.
I think it is coincidental that the master breaker and the transponder breaker popping has nothing to do with the engine stopping. But that has never happened to me either.
yesterday I noticed my engine idling at about 12:00 or 1300 RPM so this morning I took out my 7 mm wrench to try and lower the idle stop screw at which point it did and now it idles at about 1,000 RPM.
Any guidance as to the culprits of the engine stopping is greatly appreciated as I intend to fly in 2 days from now and do not want this to happen again. Thank you
?
|
taking x air out of (long-term) storage / de winterizing / getting ready to fly
i plan to start up my x air today after being in storage for about 4 months.
I sprayed fogging oil into the top valve covers as well as in each cylinder.?
How necessary is it to remove all plugs, turn engine over several times with electric starter and then put all plugs back and fire it up?
I really dont want to take cowling on and off multiple times and have fogging oil spray all over my windshield and engine, etc...
I wonder if it will fire up, knowing i have dual ignition, in the event one plug in each jug doesnt fire from fogging residue. I will be putting new plugs in anyway.
What do you all think? How do you guys de-'winterize' your planes from 'long-term' storage?
|
Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
Good to know Ian. Thank you kindly
Hi Justin,
Not to take anything away from the contributors here, but on the same groups.io form as this one, there is a Jabiru & Camit engine forum (jabcamit) with lots of guys and gals who know loads about these engines. ?Just like here, they’re a friendly and helpful
bunch.
Just in case you’d missed the Jabiru forum, I thought it might help.
ian
|
Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
Hi Justin,
Not to take anything away from the contributors here, but on the same groups.io form as this one, there is a Jabiru & Camit engine forum (jabcamit) with lots of guys and gals who know loads about these engines. ?Just like here, they’re a friendly and helpful bunch.
Just in case you’d missed the Jabiru forum, I thought it might help.
ian
|
Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
good to know Sir!
...If this X Air Hawk/Hanuman wasn't fabric covered, I'd replace with a 100HP Rotax and put amphibious floats and keep it for life!
Overall, it truly is a fantastic aircraft.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
It will decrease in pressure because of the increased head and also friction losses in the tubing (I did a semester studying fluid dynamics as a surveyor many years ago trying to get water to go up hill)
The only way to verify is to put a fuel pressure gauge right at the carburettor entry.
Justin Gregoris wrote on 19/04/2022 10:59 am:
do you guys think technically - if the fuel pump is about 40 inches before the carburetor, the PSI output pressure will decrease slightly from 4.5 to about 4.25, for example?
ok perfect - so my current 3-4.5 psi set up works - great to know.
I'll just replace the current pump with the exact make and model, or if there are stock shortages near my location, ill find something with a max of 4.5psi
like this:?
Justin Gregoris wrote on 19/04/2022 10:00 am:
Hello again Gents,
I cannot find any information regarding the GPH (gallons per hour) or PSI min. & max. for our electric fuel pumps.????
this will be in the requirements from the engine manufacturer, it will stipulate a minimum and a maximum psi for the fuel supply so this is nothing to do with the aircraft but is unique to individual engines
After a frustrating 20 minutes, I was able to remove the fiberglass belly pan of the X Air H. I am glad I did this because the previous owner didnt install the bypass fuel line section with a 1-way check valve! Why do you think he did not do this?
ignorance or trying to keep costs as low as possible???
He built the airplane pretty well with upgraded wiring and other parts, but maybe because he felt more connections means greater potential for leaks?????
Moreover, I notice I have a Facet Cube fuel pump - model # 40105. The specs on the Cube 40105 are: 30GPH, 3.0 min PSI and 4.5 max PSI.?????
a quick Google search led me to the Jabiru manufacturers website where it states the maximum pressure should be 3 psi please this is just a Google search please look at the manufacturers manual and specifications for their product
Is this correct? I feel like I should replace the electric pump, just in case. Here is my reasoning: the previous owner didnt even install the supplied Facet fuel filter into the Facet Cube! Why did he not do this as well?????
because of the well-known problems with clogging of this filter. Most people do not use this filter and instead install a proper filter upstream
After the fuel tank, I do have a Dorman 55240 glass fuel filter, which is great, but because of my paranoia with the fiberglass/resin and organic particles in my 100LL fuel that is currently in the tank, I wont be surprised if there are some fine particles
trapped within my Facet Cube - engine & plane currently at 160hours.?
I cant seem to find any info regarding how much min. and max. and GPH my 22A2895 Jabiru 2200 (160hrs) calls for, in the event my Jabiru mechanical fuel pump fails.
It is pretty simple I just went to the Jabiru website and downloaded the installation? manual for the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines and they are saying minimum 2 psi and maximum 5 psi. This comes directly from the manual at the link
below and I would not use anything but the engine manufacturers specifications
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
--
With regards, Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name: xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do. Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
|
Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
It will decrease in pressure because of the increased head and also
friction losses in the tubing (I did a semester studying fluid
dynamics as a surveyor many years ago trying to get water to go up
hill)
The only way to verify is to put a fuel pressure gauge right at the
carburettor entry.
Justin Gregoris wrote on 19/04/2022
10:59 am:
do you guys think technically - if the fuel pump is about 40
inches before the carburetor, the PSI output pressure will
decrease slightly from 4.5 to about 4.25, for example?
ok perfect - so my current 3-4.5 psi set up works - great to
know.
I'll just replace the current pump with the exact make and
model, or if there are stock shortages near my location, ill
find something with a max of 4.5psi
like this:?
Justin Gregoris wrote on
19/04/2022 10:00 am:
Hello again Gents,
I cannot find any information regarding the GPH (gallons per
hour) or PSI min. & max. for our electric fuel
pumps.????
this will be in the requirements from
the engine manufacturer, it will stipulate a minimum and a
maximum psi for the fuel supply so this is nothing to do
with the aircraft but is unique to individual engines
After a frustrating 20 minutes, I was able to remove the
fiberglass belly pan of the X Air H. I am glad I did this
because the previous owner didnt install the bypass fuel
line section with a 1-way check valve! Why do you think he
did not do this?
ignorance or trying to keep costs as
low as possible???
He built the airplane pretty well with upgraded wiring and
other parts, but maybe because he felt more connections
means greater potential for leaks?????
Moreover, I notice I have a Facet Cube fuel pump - model #
40105. The specs on the Cube 40105 are: 30GPH, 3.0 min PSI
and 4.5 max PSI.?????
a quick Google search led me to the
Jabiru manufacturers website where it states the maximum
pressure should be 3 psi please this is just a Google
search please look at the manufacturers manual and
specifications for their product
Is this correct? I feel like I should replace the electric
pump, just in case. Here is my reasoning: the previous owner
didnt even install the supplied Facet fuel filter into the
Facet Cube! Why did he not do this as well?????
because of the well-known problems
with clogging of this filter. Most people do not use this
filter and instead install a proper filter upstream
After the fuel tank, I do have a Dorman 55240 glass fuel
filter, which is great, but because of my paranoia with the
fiberglass/resin and organic particles in my 100LL fuel that
is currently in the tank, I wont be surprised if there are
some fine particles trapped within my Facet Cube - engine
& plane currently at 160hours.?
I cant seem to find any info regarding how much min. and
max. and GPH my 22A2895 Jabiru 2200 (160hrs) calls for, in
the event my Jabiru mechanical fuel pump fails.
It is pretty simple I just went to the
Jabiru website and downloaded the installation? manual for
the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines and they are saying
minimum 2 psi and maximum 5 psi. This comes directly from
the manual at the link below and I would not use anything
but the engine manufacturers specifications
--
|
With regards, Michael
Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft
- Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA
August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft
- Dealer of the year 2017
|
--
With regards, Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name: xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do. Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
|
Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
do you guys think technically - if the fuel pump is about 40 inches before the carburetor, the PSI output pressure will decrease slightly from 4.5 to about 4.25, for example?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
ok perfect - so my current 3-4.5 psi set up works - great to know.
I'll just replace the current pump with the exact make and model, or if there are stock shortages near my location, ill find something with a max of 4.5psi
like this:?
Justin Gregoris wrote on 19/04/2022 10:00 am:
Hello again Gents,
I cannot find any information regarding the GPH (gallons per hour) or PSI min. & max. for our electric fuel pumps.????
this will be in the requirements from the engine manufacturer, it will stipulate a minimum and a maximum psi for the fuel supply so this is nothing to do with the aircraft but is unique to individual engines
After a frustrating 20 minutes, I was able to remove the fiberglass belly pan of the X Air H. I am glad I did this because the previous owner didnt install the bypass fuel line section with a 1-way check valve! Why do you think he did not do this?
ignorance or trying to keep costs as low as possible???
He built the airplane pretty well with upgraded wiring and other parts, but maybe because he felt more connections means greater potential for leaks?????
Moreover, I notice I have a Facet Cube fuel pump - model # 40105. The specs on the Cube 40105 are: 30GPH, 3.0 min PSI and 4.5 max PSI.?????
a quick Google search led me to the Jabiru manufacturers website where it states the maximum pressure should be 3 psi please this is just a Google search please look at the manufacturers manual and specifications for their product
Is this correct? I feel like I should replace the electric pump, just in case. Here is my reasoning: the previous owner didnt even install the supplied Facet fuel filter into the Facet Cube! Why did he not do this as well?????
because of the well-known problems with clogging of this filter. Most people do not use this filter and instead install a proper filter upstream
After the fuel tank, I do have a Dorman 55240 glass fuel filter, which is great, but because of my paranoia with the fiberglass/resin and organic particles in my 100LL fuel that is currently in the tank, I wont be surprised if there are some fine particles
trapped within my Facet Cube - engine & plane currently at 160hours.?
I cant seem to find any info regarding how much min. and max. and GPH my 22A2895 Jabiru 2200 (160hrs) calls for, in the event my Jabiru mechanical fuel pump fails.
It is pretty simple I just went to the Jabiru website and downloaded the installation? manual for the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines and they are saying minimum 2 psi and maximum 5 psi. This comes directly from the manual at the link
below and I would not use anything but the engine manufacturers specifications
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
|
Geoffrey Gartshore
