Re: X Air Hanuman: engine-out
Get a 912 and in my opinion save yourself a lot of trouble
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On 1 May 2022, at 10:36, Mo Davies via groups.io <modavies@...> wrote:
?
Many years ago, we had a series of
engine stoppages with an early Jab.? We tried all manner of tricks
to prevent carb icing, and I used to climb up to several thousand
feet, throttle back and decend to see if we had affected a cure
after every modification.? The engine only ever stopped on me? in
the circuit, never during these tests!? Frequently stopping on the
"final glide".? I got to the state where I refused to go around,
no matter how bad the landing, as opening the throttle would cause
the engine to splutter and die every time.
The final cure was to fit small electric heaters onto the body of
the Carb.? I would switch them on before every descent and switch
them off for normal flight and this cured the problem for me.? The
sump oil carb heat did not work adequately in the UK climate
whilst descending.
Another pilot said, subsequent to his accident, that he left the
heater turned off "to save the battery" he restarted the engine
three times in the circuit after it had stopped, but still failed
to turn on the heater. (This same mentality causes drivers to
drive on parking lights when in their cars, which makes them
virtually invisible after dark.) ? The final stoppage was too low
to affect a restart and the crash wrote of the aircraft.
The problem with the carb was finally cured with electric carb
heat, but there is no cure for stupidity!
Cheers,
Mo Davies.
.? Justin Gregoris wrote:
Good afternoon Gents
Background: Jabiru 2200 Bing carburetor was fully serviced for
the first time in 14 years by Rotax dealer; also who was my
flight instructor who taught me how to fly.
Since the carburetor was off, I decided to route new fuel lines
since I did not have a bypass line with a one-way check valve. I
also replaced my fuel pump with a brand new fuel pump with a
built-in check valve.
Yesterday, I put fresh fuel in and started up the motor for
about 10 or 12 minutes and then did a static run test. I went
full power for about 10 seconds and then slam their throttle
right down to idle to see if it would stall. It did not install.
I did this multiple times on the ground.
Today, I fired up the engine and warmed it up as usual and then
did a static run before my first flight of the year. I was
flying with a pilot that has 48 years of flying experience in
over 30 aircraft.
The takeoff went great but then the master breaker popped as
well as my 3 amp transponder breaker also popping. I don't know
why this happened as it never happened before but I pushed back
in the master breaker and we continue flying without any issues.
As we were approaching to land my airplane everything was going
well. I was coming in a little too fast so as soon as I was over
the runway I moved the throttle right back to idle position at
which point I flared too early and the airplane ballooned a
little bit but nothing crazy. When a lightly kissed the ground
and the nose went up the engine all of a sudden installed and
the propeller stopped turning. Luckily at that point I was able
to land without any hard effects but both of us were extremely
shocked the engine stalled. Thank goodness it was literally
right at the end. It easily fired back up and then I did another
static run and slammed it back to idle and it did not stop.
I am scratching my head as to why it's stalled. It has never
ever done this before. I forgot to use electric boost pump when
I was landing which may have helped the issue not even happen?
Perhaps it was an air bubble or air pocket that was trapped in
the brand new fuel line?
I do not have any fuel leaks right now or smell any fuel and all
my brand new lines are bone dry.
I think it is coincidental that the master breaker and the
transponder breaker popping has nothing to do with the engine
stopping. But that has never happened to me either.
yesterday I noticed my engine idling at about 12:00 or 1300 RPM
so this morning I took out my 7 mm wrench to try and lower the
idle stop screw at which point it did and now it idles at about
1,000 RPM.
Any guidance as to the culprits of the engine stopping is
greatly appreciated as I intend to fly in 2 days from now and do
not want this to happen again. Thank you
?
|
Re: X Air Hanuman: engine-out
Many years ago, we had a series of
engine stoppages with an early Jab.? We tried all manner of tricks
to prevent carb icing, and I used to climb up to several thousand
feet, throttle back and decend to see if we had affected a cure
after every modification.? The engine only ever stopped on me? in
the circuit, never during these tests!? Frequently stopping on the
"final glide".? I got to the state where I refused to go around,
no matter how bad the landing, as opening the throttle would cause
the engine to splutter and die every time.
The final cure was to fit small electric heaters onto the body of
the Carb.? I would switch them on before every descent and switch
them off for normal flight and this cured the problem for me.? The
sump oil carb heat did not work adequately in the UK climate
whilst descending.
Another pilot said, subsequent to his accident, that he left the
heater turned off "to save the battery" he restarted the engine
three times in the circuit after it had stopped, but still failed
to turn on the heater. (This same mentality causes drivers to
drive on parking lights when in their cars, which makes them
virtually invisible after dark.) ? The final stoppage was too low
to affect a restart and the crash wrote of the aircraft.
The problem with the carb was finally cured with electric carb
heat, but there is no cure for stupidity!
Cheers,
Mo Davies.
.? Justin Gregoris wrote:
Good afternoon Gents
Background: Jabiru 2200 Bing carburetor was fully serviced for
the first time in 14 years by Rotax dealer; also who was my
flight instructor who taught me how to fly.
Since the carburetor was off, I decided to route new fuel lines
since I did not have a bypass line with a one-way check valve. I
also replaced my fuel pump with a brand new fuel pump with a
built-in check valve.
Yesterday, I put fresh fuel in and started up the motor for
about 10 or 12 minutes and then did a static run test. I went
full power for about 10 seconds and then slam their throttle
right down to idle to see if it would stall. It did not install.
I did this multiple times on the ground.
Today, I fired up the engine and warmed it up as usual and then
did a static run before my first flight of the year. I was
flying with a pilot that has 48 years of flying experience in
over 30 aircraft.
The takeoff went great but then the master breaker popped as
well as my 3 amp transponder breaker also popping. I don't know
why this happened as it never happened before but I pushed back
in the master breaker and we continue flying without any issues.
As we were approaching to land my airplane everything was going
well. I was coming in a little too fast so as soon as I was over
the runway I moved the throttle right back to idle position at
which point I flared too early and the airplane ballooned a
little bit but nothing crazy. When a lightly kissed the ground
and the nose went up the engine all of a sudden installed and
the propeller stopped turning. Luckily at that point I was able
to land without any hard effects but both of us were extremely
shocked the engine stalled. Thank goodness it was literally
right at the end. It easily fired back up and then I did another
static run and slammed it back to idle and it did not stop.
I am scratching my head as to why it's stalled. It has never
ever done this before. I forgot to use electric boost pump when
I was landing which may have helped the issue not even happen?
Perhaps it was an air bubble or air pocket that was trapped in
the brand new fuel line?
I do not have any fuel leaks right now or smell any fuel and all
my brand new lines are bone dry.
I think it is coincidental that the master breaker and the
transponder breaker popping has nothing to do with the engine
stopping. But that has never happened to me either.
yesterday I noticed my engine idling at about 12:00 or 1300 RPM
so this morning I took out my 7 mm wrench to try and lower the
idle stop screw at which point it did and now it idles at about
1,000 RPM.
Any guidance as to the culprits of the engine stopping is
greatly appreciated as I intend to fly in 2 days from now and do
not want this to happen again. Thank you
?
|
Re: X Air Hanuman: engine-out
Carb ice??
I was flying 1000AGL, 17 celsius, 8knot wind from the east. Not exactly sure what the humidity was.
I have electronic carb heat but that was not on at any point throughout the flight.
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I suspect it was carb ice, the first Jabiru powered std xair I built used to stop everytime when you closed the throttle on approach once we installed carb heat it sorted it out.
Seamus
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2022 10:48 PM
Subject: [XAIR] X Air Hanuman: engine-out
Good afternoon Gents
Background: Jabiru 2200 Bing carburetor was fully serviced for the first time in 14 years by Rotax dealer; also who was my flight instructor who taught me how to fly.
Since the carburetor was off, I decided to route new fuel lines since I did not have a bypass line with a one-way check valve. I also replaced my fuel pump with a brand new fuel pump with a built-in check valve.
Yesterday, I put fresh fuel in and started up the motor for about 10 or 12 minutes and then did a static run test. I went full power for about 10 seconds and then slam their throttle right down to idle to see if it would stall. It did not install. I did this
multiple times on the ground.
Today, I fired up the engine and warmed it up as usual and then did a static run before my first flight of the year. I was flying with a pilot that has 48 years of flying experience in over 30 aircraft.
The takeoff went great but then the master breaker popped as well as my 3 amp transponder breaker also popping. I don't know why this happened as it never happened before but I pushed back in the master breaker and we continue flying without any issues.
As we were approaching to land my airplane everything was going well. I was coming in a little too fast so as soon as I was over the runway I moved the throttle right back to idle position at which point I flared too early and the airplane ballooned a little
bit but nothing crazy. When a lightly kissed the ground and the nose went up the engine all of a sudden installed and the propeller stopped turning. Luckily at that point I was able to land without any hard effects but both of us were extremely shocked the
engine stalled. Thank goodness it was literally right at the end. It easily fired back up and then I did another static run and slammed it back to idle and it did not stop.
I am scratching my head as to why it's stalled. It has never ever done this before. I forgot to use electric boost pump when I was landing which may have helped the issue not even happen? Perhaps it was an air bubble or air pocket that was trapped in the brand
new fuel line?
I do not have any fuel leaks right now or smell any fuel and all my brand new lines are bone dry.
I think it is coincidental that the master breaker and the transponder breaker popping has nothing to do with the engine stopping. But that has never happened to me either.
yesterday I noticed my engine idling at about 12:00 or 1300 RPM so this morning I took out my 7 mm wrench to try and lower the idle stop screw at which point it did and now it idles at about 1,000 RPM.
Any guidance as to the culprits of the engine stopping is greatly appreciated as I intend to fly in 2 days from now and do not want this to happen again. Thank you
?
|
Re: X Air Hanuman: engine-out
?
I suspect it was carb ice, the first Jabiru powered std
xair I built used to stop everytime when you closed the throttle on approach
once we installed carb heat it sorted it out.
Seamus
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2022 10:48
PM
Subject: [XAIR] X Air Hanuman:
engine-out
Good afternoon Gents
Background: Jabiru 2200 Bing carburetor was fully serviced for the
first time in 14 years by Rotax dealer; also who was my flight instructor who
taught me how to fly.
Since the carburetor was off, I decided to route
new fuel lines since I did not have a bypass line with a one-way check valve.
I also replaced my fuel pump with a brand new fuel pump with a built-in check
valve.
Yesterday, I put fresh fuel in and started up the motor for
about 10 or 12 minutes and then did a static run test. I went full power for
about 10 seconds and then slam their throttle right down to idle to see if it
would stall. It did not install. I did this multiple times on the
ground.
Today, I fired up the engine and warmed it up as usual and then
did a static run before my first flight of the year. I was flying with a pilot
that has 48 years of flying experience in over 30 aircraft.
The takeoff
went great but then the master breaker popped as well as my 3 amp transponder
breaker also popping. I don't know why this happened as it never happened
before but I pushed back in the master breaker and we continue flying without
any issues.
As we were approaching to land my airplane everything was
going well. I was coming in a little too fast so as soon as I was over the
runway I moved the throttle right back to idle position at which point I
flared too early and the airplane ballooned a little bit but nothing crazy.
When a lightly kissed the ground and the nose went up the engine all of a
sudden installed and the propeller stopped turning. Luckily at that point I
was able to land without any hard effects but both of us were extremely
shocked the engine stalled. Thank goodness it was literally right at the end.
It easily fired back up and then I did another static run and slammed it back
to idle and it did not stop.
I am scratching my head as to why it's
stalled. It has never ever done this before. I forgot to use electric boost
pump when I was landing which may have helped the issue not even happen?
Perhaps it was an air bubble or air pocket that was trapped in the brand new
fuel line?
I do not have any fuel leaks right now or smell any fuel and
all my brand new lines are bone dry.
I think it is coincidental that
the master breaker and the transponder breaker popping has nothing to do with
the engine stopping. But that has never happened to me
either.
yesterday I noticed my engine idling at about 12:00 or 1300 RPM
so this morning I took out my 7 mm wrench to try and lower the idle stop screw
at which point it did and now it idles at about 1,000 RPM.
Any guidance
as to the culprits of the engine stopping is greatly appreciated as I intend
to fly in 2 days from now and do not want this to happen again. Thank
you
?
|
Re: X Air Hanuman: engine-out
My only concern is “slamming” the throttle …..
It is ok to aggressively pull the throttle back to idle when recovering from , for example, a spiral dive, ?but I would never “slam “ it back. ?? No idea if that gad any bearing on your problem.?
At other times throttle should be advanced or retarded more gradually …..
Regards, ?
Geoff Gartshore Zenith CH200 GCUD Waterloo, Ontario?
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On Apr 30, 2022, at 5:48 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?Good afternoon Gents
Background: Jabiru 2200 Bing carburetor was fully serviced for the first time in 14 years by Rotax dealer; also who was my flight instructor who taught me how to fly.
Since the carburetor was off, I decided to route new fuel lines since I did not have a bypass line with a one-way check valve. I also replaced my fuel pump with a brand new fuel pump with a built-in check valve.
Yesterday, I put fresh fuel in and started up the motor for about 10 or 12 minutes and then did a static run test. I went full power for about 10 seconds and then slam their throttle right down to idle to see if it would stall. It did not install. I did this multiple times on the ground.
Today, I fired up the engine and warmed it up as usual and then did a static run before my first flight of the year. I was flying with a pilot that has 48 years of flying experience in over 30 aircraft.
The takeoff went great but then the master breaker popped as well as my 3 amp transponder breaker also popping. I don't know why this happened as it never happened before but I pushed back in the master breaker and we continue flying without any issues.
As we were approaching to land my airplane everything was going well. I was coming in a little too fast so as soon as I was over the runway I moved the throttle right back to idle position at which point I flared too early and the airplane ballooned a little bit but nothing crazy. When a lightly kissed the ground and the nose went up the engine all of a sudden installed and the propeller stopped turning. Luckily at that point I was able to land without any hard effects but both of us were extremely shocked the engine stalled. Thank goodness it was literally right at the end. It easily fired back up and then I did another static run and slammed it back to idle and it did not stop.
I am scratching my head as to why it's stalled. It has never ever done this before. I forgot to use electric boost pump when I was landing which may have helped the issue not even happen? Perhaps it was an air bubble or air pocket that was trapped in the brand new fuel line?
I do not have any fuel leaks right now or smell any fuel and all my brand new lines are bone dry.
I think it is coincidental that the master breaker and the transponder breaker popping has nothing to do with the engine stopping. But that has never happened to me either.
yesterday I noticed my engine idling at about 12:00 or 1300 RPM so this morning I took out my 7 mm wrench to try and lower the idle stop screw at which point it did and now it idles at about 1,000 RPM.
Any guidance as to the culprits of the engine stopping is greatly appreciated as I intend to fly in 2 days from now and do not want this to happen again. Thank you
?
|
X Air Hanuman: engine-out
Good afternoon Gents
Background: Jabiru 2200 Bing carburetor was fully serviced for the first time in 14 years by Rotax dealer; also who was my flight instructor who taught me how to fly.
Since the carburetor was off, I decided to route new fuel lines since I did not have a bypass line with a one-way check valve. I also replaced my fuel pump with a brand new fuel pump with a built-in check valve.
Yesterday, I put fresh fuel in and started up the motor for about 10 or 12 minutes and then did a static run test. I went full power for about 10 seconds and then slam their throttle right down to idle to see if it would stall. It did not install. I did this multiple times on the ground.
Today, I fired up the engine and warmed it up as usual and then did a static run before my first flight of the year. I was flying with a pilot that has 48 years of flying experience in over 30 aircraft.
The takeoff went great but then the master breaker popped as well as my 3 amp transponder breaker also popping. I don't know why this happened as it never happened before but I pushed back in the master breaker and we continue flying without any issues.
As we were approaching to land my airplane everything was going well. I was coming in a little too fast so as soon as I was over the runway I moved the throttle right back to idle position at which point I flared too early and the airplane ballooned a little bit but nothing crazy. When a lightly kissed the ground and the nose went up the engine all of a sudden installed and the propeller stopped turning. Luckily at that point I was able to land without any hard effects but both of us were extremely shocked the engine stalled. Thank goodness it was literally right at the end. It easily fired back up and then I did another static run and slammed it back to idle and it did not stop.
I am scratching my head as to why it's stalled. It has never ever done this before. I forgot to use electric boost pump when I was landing which may have helped the issue not even happen? Perhaps it was an air bubble or air pocket that was trapped in the brand new fuel line?
I do not have any fuel leaks right now or smell any fuel and all my brand new lines are bone dry.
I think it is coincidental that the master breaker and the transponder breaker popping has nothing to do with the engine stopping. But that has never happened to me either.
yesterday I noticed my engine idling at about 12:00 or 1300 RPM so this morning I took out my 7 mm wrench to try and lower the idle stop screw at which point it did and now it idles at about 1,000 RPM.
Any guidance as to the culprits of the engine stopping is greatly appreciated as I intend to fly in 2 days from now and do not want this to happen again. Thank you
?
|
taking x air out of (long-term) storage / de winterizing / getting ready to fly
i plan to start up my x air today after being in storage for about 4 months.
I sprayed fogging oil into the top valve covers as well as in each cylinder.?
How necessary is it to remove all plugs, turn engine over several times with electric starter and then put all plugs back and fire it up?
I really dont want to take cowling on and off multiple times and have fogging oil spray all over my windshield and engine, etc...
I wonder if it will fire up, knowing i have dual ignition, in the event one plug in each jug doesnt fire from fogging residue. I will be putting new plugs in anyway.
What do you all think? How do you guys de-'winterize' your planes from 'long-term' storage?
|
Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
Good to know Ian. Thank you kindly
Hi Justin,
Not to take anything away from the contributors here, but on the same groups.io form as this one, there is a Jabiru & Camit engine forum (jabcamit) with lots of guys and gals who know loads about these engines. ?Just like here, they’re a friendly and helpful
bunch.
Just in case you’d missed the Jabiru forum, I thought it might help.
ian
|
Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
Hi Justin,
Not to take anything away from the contributors here, but on the same groups.io form as this one, there is a Jabiru & Camit engine forum (jabcamit) with lots of guys and gals who know loads about these engines. ?Just like here, they’re a friendly and helpful bunch.
Just in case you’d missed the Jabiru forum, I thought it might help.
ian
|
Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
good to know Sir!
...If this X Air Hawk/Hanuman wasn't fabric covered, I'd replace with a 100HP Rotax and put amphibious floats and keep it for life!
Overall, it truly is a fantastic aircraft.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
It will decrease in pressure because of the increased head and also friction losses in the tubing (I did a semester studying fluid dynamics as a surveyor many years ago trying to get water to go up hill)
The only way to verify is to put a fuel pressure gauge right at the carburettor entry.
Justin Gregoris wrote on 19/04/2022 10:59 am:
do you guys think technically - if the fuel pump is about 40 inches before the carburetor, the PSI output pressure will decrease slightly from 4.5 to about 4.25, for example?
ok perfect - so my current 3-4.5 psi set up works - great to know.
I'll just replace the current pump with the exact make and model, or if there are stock shortages near my location, ill find something with a max of 4.5psi
like this:?
Justin Gregoris wrote on 19/04/2022 10:00 am:
Hello again Gents,
I cannot find any information regarding the GPH (gallons per hour) or PSI min. & max. for our electric fuel pumps.????
this will be in the requirements from the engine manufacturer, it will stipulate a minimum and a maximum psi for the fuel supply so this is nothing to do with the aircraft but is unique to individual engines
After a frustrating 20 minutes, I was able to remove the fiberglass belly pan of the X Air H. I am glad I did this because the previous owner didnt install the bypass fuel line section with a 1-way check valve! Why do you think he did not do this?
ignorance or trying to keep costs as low as possible???
He built the airplane pretty well with upgraded wiring and other parts, but maybe because he felt more connections means greater potential for leaks?????
Moreover, I notice I have a Facet Cube fuel pump - model # 40105. The specs on the Cube 40105 are: 30GPH, 3.0 min PSI and 4.5 max PSI.?????
a quick Google search led me to the Jabiru manufacturers website where it states the maximum pressure should be 3 psi please this is just a Google search please look at the manufacturers manual and specifications for their product
Is this correct? I feel like I should replace the electric pump, just in case. Here is my reasoning: the previous owner didnt even install the supplied Facet fuel filter into the Facet Cube! Why did he not do this as well?????
because of the well-known problems with clogging of this filter. Most people do not use this filter and instead install a proper filter upstream
After the fuel tank, I do have a Dorman 55240 glass fuel filter, which is great, but because of my paranoia with the fiberglass/resin and organic particles in my 100LL fuel that is currently in the tank, I wont be surprised if there are some fine particles
trapped within my Facet Cube - engine & plane currently at 160hours.?
I cant seem to find any info regarding how much min. and max. and GPH my 22A2895 Jabiru 2200 (160hrs) calls for, in the event my Jabiru mechanical fuel pump fails.
It is pretty simple I just went to the Jabiru website and downloaded the installation? manual for the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines and they are saying minimum 2 psi and maximum 5 psi. This comes directly from the manual at the link
below and I would not use anything but the engine manufacturers specifications
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
--
With regards, Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name: xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
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"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
|
Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
It will decrease in pressure because of the increased head and also
friction losses in the tubing (I did a semester studying fluid
dynamics as a surveyor many years ago trying to get water to go up
hill)
The only way to verify is to put a fuel pressure gauge right at the
carburettor entry.
Justin Gregoris wrote on 19/04/2022
10:59 am:
do you guys think technically - if the fuel pump is about 40
inches before the carburetor, the PSI output pressure will
decrease slightly from 4.5 to about 4.25, for example?
ok perfect - so my current 3-4.5 psi set up works - great to
know.
I'll just replace the current pump with the exact make and
model, or if there are stock shortages near my location, ill
find something with a max of 4.5psi
like this:?
Justin Gregoris wrote on
19/04/2022 10:00 am:
Hello again Gents,
I cannot find any information regarding the GPH (gallons per
hour) or PSI min. & max. for our electric fuel
pumps.????
this will be in the requirements from
the engine manufacturer, it will stipulate a minimum and a
maximum psi for the fuel supply so this is nothing to do
with the aircraft but is unique to individual engines
After a frustrating 20 minutes, I was able to remove the
fiberglass belly pan of the X Air H. I am glad I did this
because the previous owner didnt install the bypass fuel
line section with a 1-way check valve! Why do you think he
did not do this?
ignorance or trying to keep costs as
low as possible???
He built the airplane pretty well with upgraded wiring and
other parts, but maybe because he felt more connections
means greater potential for leaks?????
Moreover, I notice I have a Facet Cube fuel pump - model #
40105. The specs on the Cube 40105 are: 30GPH, 3.0 min PSI
and 4.5 max PSI.?????
a quick Google search led me to the
Jabiru manufacturers website where it states the maximum
pressure should be 3 psi please this is just a Google
search please look at the manufacturers manual and
specifications for their product
Is this correct? I feel like I should replace the electric
pump, just in case. Here is my reasoning: the previous owner
didnt even install the supplied Facet fuel filter into the
Facet Cube! Why did he not do this as well?????
because of the well-known problems
with clogging of this filter. Most people do not use this
filter and instead install a proper filter upstream
After the fuel tank, I do have a Dorman 55240 glass fuel
filter, which is great, but because of my paranoia with the
fiberglass/resin and organic particles in my 100LL fuel that
is currently in the tank, I wont be surprised if there are
some fine particles trapped within my Facet Cube - engine
& plane currently at 160hours.?
I cant seem to find any info regarding how much min. and
max. and GPH my 22A2895 Jabiru 2200 (160hrs) calls for, in
the event my Jabiru mechanical fuel pump fails.
It is pretty simple I just went to the
Jabiru website and downloaded the installation? manual for
the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines and they are saying
minimum 2 psi and maximum 5 psi. This comes directly from
the manual at the link below and I would not use anything
but the engine manufacturers specifications
--
|
With regards, Michael
Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft
- Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA
August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft
- Dealer of the year 2017
|
--
With regards, Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name: xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do. Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
|
Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
do you guys think technically - if the fuel pump is about 40 inches before the carburetor, the PSI output pressure will decrease slightly from 4.5 to about 4.25, for example?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
ok perfect - so my current 3-4.5 psi set up works - great to know.
I'll just replace the current pump with the exact make and model, or if there are stock shortages near my location, ill find something with a max of 4.5psi
like this:?
Justin Gregoris wrote on 19/04/2022 10:00 am:
Hello again Gents,
I cannot find any information regarding the GPH (gallons per hour) or PSI min. & max. for our electric fuel pumps.????
this will be in the requirements from the engine manufacturer, it will stipulate a minimum and a maximum psi for the fuel supply so this is nothing to do with the aircraft but is unique to individual engines
After a frustrating 20 minutes, I was able to remove the fiberglass belly pan of the X Air H. I am glad I did this because the previous owner didnt install the bypass fuel line section with a 1-way check valve! Why do you think he did not do this?
ignorance or trying to keep costs as low as possible???
He built the airplane pretty well with upgraded wiring and other parts, but maybe because he felt more connections means greater potential for leaks?????
Moreover, I notice I have a Facet Cube fuel pump - model # 40105. The specs on the Cube 40105 are: 30GPH, 3.0 min PSI and 4.5 max PSI.?????
a quick Google search led me to the Jabiru manufacturers website where it states the maximum pressure should be 3 psi please this is just a Google search please look at the manufacturers manual and specifications for their product
Is this correct? I feel like I should replace the electric pump, just in case. Here is my reasoning: the previous owner didnt even install the supplied Facet fuel filter into the Facet Cube! Why did he not do this as well?????
because of the well-known problems with clogging of this filter. Most people do not use this filter and instead install a proper filter upstream
After the fuel tank, I do have a Dorman 55240 glass fuel filter, which is great, but because of my paranoia with the fiberglass/resin and organic particles in my 100LL fuel that is currently in the tank, I wont be surprised if there are some fine particles
trapped within my Facet Cube - engine & plane currently at 160hours.?
I cant seem to find any info regarding how much min. and max. and GPH my 22A2895 Jabiru 2200 (160hrs) calls for, in the event my Jabiru mechanical fuel pump fails.
It is pretty simple I just went to the Jabiru website and downloaded the installation? manual for the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines and they are saying minimum 2 psi and maximum 5 psi. This comes directly from the manual at the link
below and I would not use anything but the engine manufacturers specifications
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
|
Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
ok perfect - so my current 3-4.5 psi set up works - great to know.
I'll just replace the current pump with the exact make and model, or if there are stock shortages near my location, ill find something with a max of 4.5psi
like this:?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Justin Gregoris wrote on 19/04/2022 10:00 am:
Hello again Gents,
I cannot find any information regarding the GPH (gallons per hour) or PSI min. & max. for our electric fuel pumps.????
this will be in the requirements from the engine manufacturer, it will stipulate a minimum and a maximum psi for the fuel supply so this is nothing to do with the aircraft but is unique to individual engines
After a frustrating 20 minutes, I was able to remove the fiberglass belly pan of the X Air H. I am glad I did this because the previous owner didnt install the bypass fuel line section with a 1-way check valve! Why do you think he did not do this?
ignorance or trying to keep costs as low as possible???
He built the airplane pretty well with upgraded wiring and other parts, but maybe because he felt more connections means greater potential for leaks?????
Moreover, I notice I have a Facet Cube fuel pump - model # 40105. The specs on the Cube 40105 are: 30GPH, 3.0 min PSI and 4.5 max PSI.?????
a quick Google search led me to the Jabiru manufacturers website where it states the maximum pressure should be 3 psi please this is just a Google search please look at the manufacturers manual and specifications for their product
Is this correct? I feel like I should replace the electric pump, just in case. Here is my reasoning: the previous owner didnt even install the supplied Facet fuel filter into the Facet Cube! Why did he not do this as well?????
because of the well-known problems with clogging of this filter. Most people do not use this filter and instead install a proper filter upstream
After the fuel tank, I do have a Dorman 55240 glass fuel filter, which is great, but because of my paranoia with the fiberglass/resin and organic particles in my 100LL fuel that is currently in the tank, I wont be surprised if there are some fine particles
trapped within my Facet Cube - engine & plane currently at 160hours.?
I cant seem to find any info regarding how much min. and max. and GPH my 22A2895 Jabiru 2200 (160hrs) calls for, in the event my Jabiru mechanical fuel pump fails.
It is pretty simple I just went to the Jabiru website and downloaded the installation? manual for the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines and they are saying minimum 2 psi and maximum 5 psi. This comes directly from the manual at the link
below and I would not use anything but the engine manufacturers specifications
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
|
Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
Justin Gregoris wrote on 19/04/2022
10:00 am:
Hello again Gents,
I cannot find any information regarding the GPH (gallons per hour)
or PSI min. & max. for our electric fuel pumps.???? this will be in the requirements from the engine
manufacturer, it will stipulate a minimum and a maximum psi for
the fuel supply so this is nothing to do with the aircraft but
is unique to individual engines
After a frustrating 20 minutes, I was able to remove the
fiberglass belly pan of the X Air H. I am glad I did this because
the previous owner didnt install the bypass fuel line section with
a 1-way check valve! Why do you think he did not do this? ignorance or trying to keep costs as low as
possible??? He built the airplane pretty well with
upgraded wiring and other parts, but maybe because he felt more
connections means greater potential for leaks?????
Moreover, I notice I have a Facet Cube fuel pump - model # 40105.
The specs on the Cube 40105 are: 30GPH, 3.0 min PSI and 4.5 max
PSI.????? a quick Google search led me to
the Jabiru manufacturers website where it states the maximum
pressure should be 3 psi please this is just a Google search
please look at the manufacturers manual and specifications for
their product
Is this correct? I feel like I should replace the electric pump,
just in case. Here is my reasoning: the previous owner didnt even
install the supplied Facet fuel filter into the Facet Cube! Why
did he not do this as well????? because of
the well-known problems with clogging of this filter. Most
people do not use this filter and instead install a proper
filter upstream
After the fuel tank, I do have a Dorman 55240 glass fuel filter,
which is great, but because of my paranoia with the
fiberglass/resin and organic particles in my 100LL fuel that is
currently in the tank, I wont be surprised if there are some fine
particles trapped within my Facet Cube - engine & plane
currently at 160hours.?
I cant seem to find any info regarding how much min. and max. and
GPH my 22A2895 Jabiru 2200 (160hrs) calls for, in the event my
Jabiru mechanical fuel pump fails.
It is pretty simple I just went to the
Jabiru website and downloaded the installation? manual for the 4
cylinder and 6 cylinder engines and they are saying minimum 2
psi and maximum 5 psi. This comes directly from the manual at
the link below and I would not use anything but the engine
manufacturers specifications
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email: info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft -
Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August
Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft -
Dealer of the year 2017
|
|
Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
The jabiru 2200 uses a bing 54 carb. The nominal pressure for them is 1-4 psi. They need to be fed, but anything over 4 psi can cause the carb to flood.
he probably didn’t install the facet filter because they aren’t serviceable and was relying on the main filter.
The bypass isn’t always a well known thing and more of a work around to avoid failure. Theoretically the facet pump should allow flow through. Just sucks to find out that one time it won’t or that it’s causing a bit to much restriction when it’s not running.
|
Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
Hello again Gents,
I cannot find any information regarding the GPH (gallons per hour) or PSI min. & max. for our electric fuel pumps.
After a frustrating 20 minutes, I was able to remove the fiberglass belly pan of the X Air H. I am glad I did this because the previous owner didnt install the bypass fuel line section with a 1-way check valve! Why do you think he did not do this? He built the airplane pretty well with upgraded wiring and other parts, but maybe because he felt more connections means greater potential for leaks?
Moreover, I notice I have a Facet Cube fuel pump - model # 40105. The specs on the Cube 40105 are: 30GPH, 3.0 min PSI and 4.5 max PSI.
Is this correct? I feel like I should replace the electric pump, just in case. Here is my reasoning: the previous owner didnt even install the supplied Facet fuel filter into the Facet Cube! Why did he not do this as well?
After the fuel tank, I do have a Dorman 55240 glass fuel filter, which is great, but because of my paranoia with the fiberglass/resin and organic particles in my 100LL fuel that is currently in the tank, I wont be surprised if there are some fine particles trapped within my Facet Cube - engine & plane currently at 160hours.?
I cant seem to find any info regarding how much min. and max. and GPH my 22A2895 Jabiru 2200 (160hrs) calls for, in the event my Jabiru mechanical fuel pump fails.
|
Re: Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air
Many thanks gentlemen!
Your responses are valued.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
See your PM
----- Upprunalegt skeyti -----
Frá: Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...>
Til: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 21:43:51 -0000 (GMT)
Efni: Re: [XAIR] Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air
Anyone have a diagram of what setup I should have ? I'll? dismantle the floor tomorrow and remove and replace the facet pump filter but then also try and plumb? fuel lines to bypass this pump, in the event it may fail.
|
Re: Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air
See your PM ----- Upprunalegt skeyti ----- Frá: Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> Til: [email protected]Sent: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 21:43:51 -0000 (GMT) Efni: Re: [XAIR] Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air Anyone have a diagram of what setup I should have ? I'll? dismantle the floor tomorrow and remove and replace the facet pump filter but then also try and plumb? fuel lines to bypass this pump, in the event it may fail.
|
Re: Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air
This is what it should look like (generically)
Justin Gregoris wrote on 18/04/2022
7:43 am:
Anyone have a diagram of what setup I should have ? I'll?
dismantle the floor tomorrow and remove and replace the facet pump
filter but then also try and plumb? fuel lines to bypass this
pump, in the event it may fail.
--
With regards, Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name: xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do. Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
|
Re: Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air
the large gold part at the bottom of this picture is the filter. If
you break them open there is a wire mesh filter in their but they
are not serviceable, the only way to try and service them is to
flush them backwards but I have had mixed results. The fibreglass of
the X-Air fuel tank will clog these in record time so you are best
to discard this filter and use a serviceable filter which is clear
like in the 2nd photograph.....?? you can get these in quarter-inch,
5/16 and 3/8 nipple size and it is important to get the correct one
for your fuel hose because a loose one is not a good fit
Mine has a bypass made with a one-way check valve that t's
around the pump. It has a small silver filter before the pump
and another filer between the tank and the filter pump. I'm not
aware of any internal filter and it's not been a problems as of
yet for me.
Tom
--
With regards, Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name: xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do. Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
|
Geoffrey Gartshore
Tom Yoder