Re: X air Hanuman vortex generators
Its open, just slow with continual covid closures
William Scully via groups.io wrote on
12/02/2022 10:59 am:
Does anyone know if x-air factory is open or closed ?
I’ve been waiting 2 yrs for wing covers ?- now can’t get hold
of anyone from the company about my 50% deposit for my parts
?Has anyone been in-contact ?
Thanks v much.?
Bill Scully Redondo Beach Ca.?
?
Yes sir - will do!
I hope it works out well for you Justin.?
?Keep us up to date with the
progress!
Quite a lot of effort in my view
- not to mention a thumb suck as where best and
how far apart to place them given the marginal
improvement on an already slow fabric covered
aircraft. Of course those that have them swear
by the STOL performance gain, which is human
nature after all once you’ve paid your monies
and spent the time – not so! ??
?
?
Thanks for the prompt replies!
I decided I am going ahead with it.
I spoke to 4 others with these VGs on various
fabric planes and they all wished they would
have installed them years ago.
If they don't work worst case, I'll take them
off and return the product, but I don't see why
they wouldn't work, especially underneath the
horizontal stabilizer.
That was my gut feeling on it as well. On an
aluminum or traditional dope and paint I could
see it working, but the mylar/dacron has too
much flutter and flexibility. I guess if someone
was willing to risk damaging things by using two
part epoxy or a mechanical fastener, maybe?
Doesn't seem worth the risk in an attempt to
reduce the stall speed of an already very low
stalling aircraft though.
Tom
?
--
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USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
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mailto:mcoates@...
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Re: X air Hanuman vortex generators
Hi Bill,
I have tried multiple times myself to contact them as well.
I feel like 'we' (this x air community) are on our own with the X-Air. We help out each other when we can.
Sorry about your deposit.
Good news is - a Canadian company in Quebec makes X Air coverings:
.com?
Gary is the owner. He is A-1 with customer service.?
Hope that helps,
Justin
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Show quoted text
Does anyone know if x-air factory is open or closed ?
I’ve been waiting 2 yrs for wing covers ?- now can’t get hold of anyone from the company about my 50% deposit for my parts ?Has anyone been in-contact ?
Thanks v much.?
Bill Scully Redondo Beach Ca.?
On Feb 11, 2022, at 3:12 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
? Yes sir - will do!
I hope it works out well for you Justin.?
?Keep us up to date with the progress!
Quite a lot of effort in my view - not to mention a thumb suck as where best and how far apart to place them given the marginal improvement on an already slow fabric covered aircraft.
Of course those that have them swear by the STOL performance gain, which is human nature after all once you’ve paid your monies and spent the time – not so! ??
?
?
Thanks for the prompt replies!
I decided I am going ahead with it.
I spoke to 4 others with these VGs on various fabric planes and they all wished they would have installed them years ago.
If they don't work worst case, I'll take them off and return the product, but I don't see why they wouldn't work, especially underneath the horizontal stabilizer.
That was my gut feeling on it as well. On an aluminum or traditional dope and paint I could see it working, but the mylar/dacron has too much flutter and flexibility. I guess if someone was willing to risk damaging things by using two part epoxy or a mechanical
fastener, maybe? Doesn't seem worth the risk in an attempt to reduce the stall speed of an already very low stalling aircraft though.
Tom
?
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Re: X air Hanuman vortex generators
Does anyone know if x-air factory is open or closed ? I’ve been waiting 2 yrs for wing covers ?- now can’t get hold of anyone from the company about my 50% deposit for my parts ?Has anyone been in-contact ? Thanks v much.? Bill Scully Redondo Beach Ca.?
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On Feb 11, 2022, at 3:12 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Yes sir - will do!
I hope it works out well for you Justin.?
?Keep us up to date with the progress!
Quite a lot of effort in my view - not to mention a thumb suck as where best and how far apart to place them given the marginal improvement on an already slow fabric covered aircraft.
Of course those that have them swear by the STOL performance gain, which is human nature after all once you’ve paid your monies and spent the time – not so! ??
?
?
Thanks for the prompt replies!
I decided I am going ahead with it.
I spoke to 4 others with these VGs on various fabric planes and they all wished they would have installed them years ago.
If they don't work worst case, I'll take them off and return the product, but I don't see why they wouldn't work, especially underneath the horizontal stabilizer.
That was my gut feeling on it as well. On an aluminum or traditional dope and paint I could see it working, but the mylar/dacron has too much flutter and flexibility. I guess if someone was willing to risk damaging things by using two part epoxy or a mechanical
fastener, maybe? Doesn't seem worth the risk in an attempt to reduce the stall speed of an already very low stalling aircraft though.
Tom
?
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Re: X air Hanuman vortex generators
Yes sir - will do!
I hope it works out well for you Justin.?
?Keep us up to date with the progress!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Quite a lot of effort in my view - not to mention a thumb suck as where best and how far apart to place them given the marginal improvement on an already slow fabric covered aircraft.
Of course those that have them swear by the STOL performance gain, which is human nature after all once you’ve paid your monies and spent the time – not so! ??
?
?
Thanks for the prompt replies!
I decided I am going ahead with it.
I spoke to 4 others with these VGs on various fabric planes and they all wished they would have installed them years ago.
If they don't work worst case, I'll take them off and return the product, but I don't see why they wouldn't work, especially underneath the horizontal stabilizer.
That was my gut feeling on it as well. On an aluminum or traditional dope and paint I could see it working, but the mylar/dacron has too much flutter and flexibility. I guess if someone was willing to risk damaging things by using two part epoxy or a mechanical
fastener, maybe? Doesn't seem worth the risk in an attempt to reduce the stall speed of an already very low stalling aircraft though.
Tom
?
|
Re: X air Hanuman vortex generators
I hope it works out well for you Justin.?
?Keep us up to date with the progress!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Quite a lot of effort in my view - not to mention a thumb suck as where best and how far apart to place them given the marginal improvement on an already slow fabric covered aircraft.
Of course those that have them swear by the STOL performance gain, which is human nature after all once you’ve paid your monies and spent the time – not so! ??
?
?
Thanks for the prompt replies!
I decided I am going ahead with it.
I spoke to 4 others with these VGs on various fabric planes and they all wished they would have installed them years ago.
If they don't work worst case, I'll take them off and return the product, but I don't see why they wouldn't work, especially underneath the horizontal stabilizer.
That was my gut feeling on it as well. On an aluminum or traditional dope and paint I could see it working, but the mylar/dacron has too much flutter and flexibility. I guess if someone was willing to risk damaging things by using two part epoxy or a mechanical
fastener, maybe? Doesn't seem worth the risk in an attempt to reduce the stall speed of an already very low stalling aircraft though.
Tom
?
|
Re: X air Hanuman vortex generators
Quite a lot of effort in my view - not to mention a thumb suck as where best and how far apart to place them given the marginal improvement on an already slow fabric covered aircraft. Of course those that have them swear by the STOL performance gain, which is human nature after all once you’ve paid your monies and spent the time – not so! ?? ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Justin Gregoris
Sent: Friday, 11 February 2022 14:00
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [XAIR] X air Hanuman vortex generators? Thanks for the prompt replies! I decided I am going ahead with it. I spoke to 4 others with these VGs on various fabric planes and they all wished they would have installed them years ago. If they don't work worst case, I'll take them off and return the product, but I don't see why they wouldn't work, especially underneath the horizontal stabilizer.
That was my gut feeling on it as well. On an aluminum or traditional dope and paint I could see it working, but the mylar/dacron has too much flutter and flexibility. I guess if someone was willing to risk damaging things by using two part epoxy or a mechanical fastener, maybe? Doesn't seem worth the risk in an attempt to reduce the stall speed of an already very low stalling aircraft though. Tom ?
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Re: X air Hanuman vortex generators
Thanks for the prompt replies!
I decided I am going ahead with it.
I spoke to 4 others with these VGs on various fabric planes and they all wished they would have installed them years ago.
If they don't work worst case, I'll take them off and return the product, but I don't see why they wouldn't work, especially underneath the horizontal stabilizer.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
That was my gut feeling on it as well. On an aluminum or traditional dope and paint I could see it working, but the mylar/dacron has too much flutter and flexibility. I guess if someone was willing to risk damaging things by using two part epoxy or a mechanical
fastener, maybe? Doesn't seem worth the risk in an attempt to reduce the stall speed of an already very low stalling aircraft though.
Tom
?
|
Re: X air Hanuman vortex generators
That was my gut feeling on it as well. On an aluminum or traditional dope and paint I could see it working, but the mylar/dacron has too much flutter and flexibility. I guess if someone was willing to risk damaging things by using two part epoxy or a mechanical fastener, maybe? Doesn't seem worth the risk in an attempt to reduce the stall speed of an already very low stalling aircraft though.
Tom
?
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Re: X air Hanuman vortex generators
A few have tried with ZERO results....??? They dont stick and there
is too much movement in the fabric
That interesting. I wonder how they would stick to the fabric
of an X-air, and if there would be any negative effect at higher
speeds.
Tom
--
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With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email: info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
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Pipistrel Aircraft -
Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August
Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft -
Dealer of the year 2017
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Re: X air Hanuman vortex generators
That interesting. I wonder how they would stick to the fabric of an X-air, and if there would be any negative effect at higher speeds.
Tom
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Re: X air Hanuman vortex generators
Hi Justin,
There is some great info on VGs on this site: . The owner of the business is John Gilpin.
Kind regards,
Hank
Get
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Hello all from Ontario Canada:
I am wondering if anyone has installed vortex generators on their X Air Hanuman/Hawk?
I can install them myself, 10% of the length from the leading edge, (4 inches apart from one another) all across the top of the main wings and all underneath the horizontal stabilizer for about 240$ CDN.
The vortex generators are about 1 inch long and about 5/8 inches high and about 3/8 inches wide, made out of clear plastic.
All instructions are provided except what adhesive to use - any suggestions??
Some people inquire as to why an owner would install vortex generators on an aircraft that already has a low stall speed, but I guess my response would be making an effort to reduce stall even lower but more importantly to reduce total take off distance; even
if it helps a mere 30 to 40 feet.?
I'm not 100% going ahead with this project but I am quite confident I will notice a difference if I do.
Any advice or suggestions is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Justin
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X air Hanuman vortex generators
Hello all from Ontario Canada: I am wondering if anyone has installed vortex generators on their X Air Hanuman/Hawk? I can install them myself, 10% of the length from the leading edge, (4 inches apart from one another) all across the top of the main wings and all underneath the horizontal stabilizer for about 240$ CDN.
The vortex generators are about 1 inch long and about 5/8 inches high and about 3/8 inches wide, made out of clear plastic.
All instructions are provided except what adhesive to use - any suggestions??
Some people inquire as to why an owner would install vortex generators on an aircraft that already has a low stall speed, but I guess my response would be making an effort to reduce stall even lower but more importantly to reduce total take off distance; even if it helps a mere 30 to 40 feet.?
I'm not 100% going ahead with this project but I am quite confident I will notice a difference if I do.
Any advice or suggestions is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Justin
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Re: New X-air H Hanuman owner
Bolly Props here in South Australia.
Highly recommended for? spinny fan things on the front ( or even the back)
Clive Cunningham
K&M HD Motorcycles
10 Deacon Ave
Richmond
SA 5033
Ph. +618 8234 1090
kmmotor@...
kmmotorcycles.com.au
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So I got a chance to mess around in the hanger, this is what I've found.
Ailerons are completely in line with the flaps. There appears to be no 2 degree (or any degree) of upward angle to them. I still need to grab a straight edge and make sure the flaps are right, and then adjust the ailerons to the appropriate "up" angle relative
to the flaps. I'm thinking this one at least part of the reason why it starts getting laterally unstable at higher speeds. I'm not sure, of course, but it seems?
The propeller appears to be a Tennesse props 62x42, which is, as expected, far too much propeller for the jab 2200. I need to do some playing with the engine and do some maintenance items before I'm comfortable taking her out of sight of the airport. Hopefully
soon though.
I'm thinking 60x38 for the propeller is the norm for the Hawk and jab 2200 combo, Can anyone tell me what they are using on an H? I know Mr Coates has put together quite a few, I wasn't sure what was used with good success,
Thank you all again for your help and insight!
Tom
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Re: New X-air H Hanuman owner
So I got a chance to mess around in the hanger, this is what I've found.
Ailerons are completely in line with the flaps. There appears to be no 2 degree (or any degree) of upward angle to them. I still need to grab a straight edge and make sure the flaps are right, and then adjust the ailerons to the appropriate "up" angle relative to the flaps. I'm thinking this one at least part of the reason why it starts getting laterally unstable at higher speeds. I'm not sure, of course.
The rudder is rigged perfectly, and she flies very well in that regard. The trim tab is spot on. There does not appear to be any noticeable slop in the stick controls either.
The propeller appears to be a Tennesse props 62x42, which is, as expected, far too much propeller for the jab 2200. I need to do some playing with the engine and do some maintenance items before I'm comfortable taking her out of sight of the airport. Hopefully soon though.
I'm thinking 60x38 for the propeller is the norm for the Hawk and jab 2200 combo, Can anyone tell me what they are using on an H? I know Mr Coates has put together quite a few, I wasn't sure what was used with good success,
Thank you all again for your help and insight!
Tom
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Re: New X-air H Hanuman owner
Unfortunately Tennessee propellers appears to have failed during Covid and is not in business anymore.
Would anyone care to tell me what size/pitch you are using? I’ve reached out to Culver Props and have been digging, but I’d like to know what works for everyone else.
Tom
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Re: New X-air H Hanuman owner
Tennessee Propellers makes good wood props at fairly reasonable prices. ? ?I had one on my XAir H. ? Check them out for pricing. ? Geoff Gartshore Zenith CH200 GCUD Waterloo, Ontario?
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On Feb 4, 2022, at 6:36 PM, kymidnight@... wrote:
? Marlin,
Thank you for checking your plane.
Those are in line with what I was thinking. around 3000-3100 on ground/climb, 3250-3300 in straight and level, cruise around 2700-2800. As it sits right now, full throttle is 2650-2700 on the ground and climb, with 2800-2900? all out in straight a level.
I'm thinking the prop that's on it is pitched too aggressively or too large, but I need to eliminate air, fueling, ignition, or other running issues before I buy and very expensive propeller. Unless someone knows where I can find a used one for a reasonable price.
Thanks again,
Tom
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Re: New X-air H Hanuman owner
Marlin,
Thank you for checking your plane.
Those are in line with what I was thinking. around 3000-3100 on ground/climb, 3250-3300 in straight and level, cruise around 2700-2800. As it sits right now, full throttle is 2650-2700 on the ground and climb, with 2800-2900? all out in straight a level.
I'm thinking the prop that's on it is pitched too aggressively or too large, but I need to eliminate air, fueling, ignition, or other running issues before I buy and very expensive propeller. Unless someone knows where I can find a used one for a reasonable price.
Thanks again,
Tom
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Re: New X-air H Hanuman owner
I did a flight this morning and made it a point to check the actual rpm's. On climb out full throttle, 70-75mph, I was getting 3050 rpm. Straight and level, full throttle, 3250 rpm. I usually cruise in the 2750-2800 rpm range unless I'm in a hurry.
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Re: New X-air H Hanuman owner
If I remember correctly from the Jabiru factory engine maintenance course I went to about 10 years ago, the correct prop pitch is one that results in or near 3300 rpm in level flight at full throttle. They said that static run-up is not a good indicator as faster airplanes will have more pitch resulting in less rpm than a plane with more drag. My prop is a DUC ground adjustable. Getting the right pitch was a bit of trial and error but once set the plane has performed perfectly. It sounds like your prop has too much pitch.
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Re: New X-air H Hanuman owner
Jab engines are just like the lycoming air cooled engines found in cessnas am pipers. There is no major difference in design except the magnetos. I have had Jab engine for 10 years - never had overheat problem. ----- Upprunalegt skeyti ----- Frá: Mo Davies via groups.io <modavies@...> Til: [email protected]Sent: Thu, 03 Feb 2022 06:53:27 -0000 (GMT) Efni: Re: [XAIR] New X-air H Hanuman owner If the Jab is not properly cooled, it will destroy itself quite quickly. It really needs two temp guahes, and initially, constant temperature checks. Mo.
On 2 Feb 2022, at 08:38, kymidnight@... wrote:
?
Hi All, Greetings from the US. I recently purchased my first plane, a 2007 X-air H. I am in the process of bringing it up to snuff, but resources for the plane are scant here. There is a fair amount of clean up and I think the prop that's on it is wrong, but I need to do a bit more digging on that. The little Jabiru may not be breathing well. I'm sure I'll be posting about that shortly :)
The biggest problem I'm having is that of aileron control. Specifically, when flying above about 66kts the plane is less stable than I feel it should be, tossing to the side off and on. At or below 65kts it will fly hands-off, but getting up to about 70kts or more, it requires constant vigilance and substantial correction any time the wind blows it even a tiny bit.
Otherwise, the plane feels great, with good, tight rudder response and gentle characteristics.
I feel like this is abnormal for this plane, based on what I've read, but I've never flown any others.
Can anyone offer any insight or suggestions as to what to check or adjust? Are there any other resources online you guys can point me towards to help me along my journey?
I'm sure I'll have lots of questions, and I appreciate everyone's help.
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Tom Yoder
Clive Cunningham
Geoffrey Gartshore