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Need advice about transport #introduction

 

Hi All,

Thanks for letting me join the party! ?To keep it brief: ?Daughter of a weaver & an engineer. ?Got bit by VSM bug during COVID. ?Have acquired a fair few machines. (LOL, enough that I often take screen shots of ones I don't ask for, just to prove to my family that I really do pass up A LOT of potential acquisitions...)

Am scheduled to pick up my first W&W this evening, a D-9 in a 5-drawer treadle. ?May need to do this on my own and looking for confirmation that the head is made to detach from the table in the same way these old lovelies usually do (loosen grub screws, pull away from 2 hinges), and weighs 35 pounds, give or take?

And the table itself -- similar to a 1900s-era Singer in dimensions and weight? ?(Usually I can shift these by myself once I remove the head)
How possible is it likely to be to detach the treadle portion from the wooden top in relatively short order? ?(Which would enable me to use a dolly without endangering the cabinet.)

I may be able to bring help, which is obviously preferable; just trying to assess whether I could do this on my own if necessary.

Thoughts? ?
 

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Hello,

Based on my experience transporting Wheeler & Wilson D9’s here’s a couple of items to consider:

My three D9’s have heads that are easily removed. Simply tilt the head about half way back (from the horizontal position) and then carefully lift/pull it directly towards yourself. There’s a smooth pin which will slide out of the body of each hinge. ?There are no “grub screws” (on mine). No tools are required. And, yes, the head is fairly heavy (approximately 35 lb.)

The remaining base/legs/treadle assembly is an additional 40-50 lbs. ? Yes, it is possible to disassemble the base (requires an open-end adjustable wrench and a screw driver). However, once the process is begun the entire unit will loose its strength/stability. So, I would not recommend removing just the “treadle portion”. ?In any case, if you do elect to disassemble the base be sure to take several photos to facilitate reassembly of the parts in the correct position and orientation.?

Having a helper is your best option.?

Ken

On Mar 16, 2023, at 09:56, travelingzen via groups.io <mzsmail@...> wrote:

?Hi All,

Thanks for letting me join the party! ?To keep it brief: ?Daughter of a weaver & an engineer. ?Got bit by VSM bug during COVID. ?Have acquired a fair few machines. (LOL, enough that I often take screen shots of ones I don't ask for, just to prove to my family that I really do pass up A LOT of potential acquisitions...)

Am scheduled to pick up my first W&W this evening, a D-9 in a 5-drawer treadle. ?May need to do this on my own and looking for confirmation that the head is made to detach from the table in the same way these old lovelies usually do (loosen grub screws, pull away from 2 hinges), and weighs 35 pounds, give or take?

And the table itself -- similar to a 1900s-era Singer in dimensions and weight? ?(Usually I can shift these by myself once I remove the head)
How possible is it likely to be to detach the treadle portion from the wooden top in relatively short order? ?(Which would enable me to use a dolly without endangering the cabinet.)

I may be able to bring help, which is obviously preferable; just trying to assess whether I could do this on my own if necessary.

Thoughts? ?
 

I'll echo Ken and go one step further. I 'd recommend against disassembly other than removing head and drawers.? Fiddly process that increases instability and risk of damage, and trying to do it on site is just asking for trouble.? If the seller can help you lift it into the car, an easy task with two people, you can enlist help to get it out when you are home.
 

Thanks Ken & Heresolong — your input was very helpful. I knew not to look for grub screws, and indeed there were none. And I knew not to bother past taking the drawers out :-)

seller helped me lift it out the bulkhead, which was the hardest part. Had help on the other end to get it into the house, no sweat ?In looking over the base I see little clips to stabilize the wooden parts so I can see how it could be destabilized by taking it apart and I’m glad I didn’t try ?

The head (D-9) has a serial in the high 2 millions, 2804860, so I’m thinking 1903-ish? ?As soon as I can clear some time to really go over it, I’ll post some pics. ?For the moment I just gave it some pats and a little oil at the pivot points of the treadle (which moves but creakily), to start them thinking about moving freely. ?

?
 

Singer purchased W&W in 1905, and continued to sell W&W D-9s with the W&W decorations until about 1908. After that Singer sold the D-9 with some modifications as the Singer 9W.

I've been keeping track of any dated W&W receipts or warranties that have serial numbers. I have a picture of a D-9 warranty serial #2749313 dated 02/03/1904, so I would say it is about 1904.
 

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Tammy,

To possibly help regarding this subject, please be aware that serial numbers stamped on Singer machines mean absolutely nothing when used to try and date a machines manufacturer date. ?I travelled that road extensively and have researched the subject with multiple authorities. ?It is a very convoluted subject and has a lot of conjecture and best guesses for answers.

Kind Regards,
Mary

On Mar 17, 2023, at 3:20 PM, Tammy Tatum <tammy.tatum@...> wrote:

Singer purchased W&W in 1905, and continued to sell W&W D-9s with the W&W decorations until about 1908. After that Singer sold the D-9 with some modifications as the Singer 9W.

I've been keeping track of any dated W&W receipts or warranties that have serial numbers. I have a picture of a D-9 warranty serial #2749313 dated 02/03/1904, so I would say it is about 1904.

 

Yes, the Singer database will not help with dating a W&W machine even those manufactured after Singer purchased Wheeler and Wilson. Even with Singer machines it only give you a close approximation of the date of manufacture since the date is when the batch of serial numbers were release to the factory.

But the approximate date I gave was based on a warranty card for a D-9 purchased in early 1904. It had nothing to do with the Singer database. Since the serial number of her machine is not too many after the machine that I have documentation showing it was sold in early 1904, the year 1904 is a reasonable approximation. Which is why I said "about 1904" and gave the reasoning behind this approximation.

Tammy
 

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Sounds like you are well informed then and know about the confusion with Singer serial numbers.

On Mar 17, 2023, at 4:18 PM, Tammy Tatum <tammy.tatum@...> wrote:

Yes, the Singer database will not help with dating a W&W machine even those manufactured after Singer purchased Wheeler and Wilson. Even with Singer machines it only give you a close approximation of the date of manufacture since the date is when the batch of serial numbers were release to the factory.

But the approximate date I gave was based on a warranty card for a D-9 purchased in early 1904. It had nothing to do with the Singer database. Since the serial number of her machine is not too many after the machine that I have documentation showing it was sold in early 1904, the year 1904 is a reasonable approximation. Which is why I said "about 1904" and gave the reasoning behind this approximation.

Tammy

 

Thanks Tammy! ?I was using the formula I found somewhere to derive the 1903 guess -- very useful to have concrete historical record to work from, even if it is still a "best guess." ??
 

Hello Tammy,

?I’m wondering if you can help me date my Wheeler & Wilson D-9 treadle?

The serial number is ?2401021
I’ve attached a picture of the plate so you can see the patent dates.

Thank you so much!
Sandra

Sandra W. Haak
801-201-5331
swhaak@...

?

F5285908-36ED-4D9B-8587-7CA90C15E468.jpeg

 

I only have a handful of documented dated receipts and warranties, but fortunately there are two receipts almost exactly a year apart that straddle your serial number.


#2385629 receipt?dated 1898/08/09 and #2449752 receipt?dated 1899/08/10

With sold dates of the two machines above best guess is 1898, but definitely no later than 1899.

Tammy

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