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Re: sad news: Bill Wells
Paul, thank you for sharing that. So sorry to hear of his passing.? Great loss for our community.? Lisa On Apr 16, 2024 8:26 AM, Paul Fox <pgf@...> wrote:
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Re: sad news: Bill Wells
Paul, thank you for sharing that. So sorry to hear of his passing.? Great loss for our community.? Lisa On Apr 16, 2024 8:26 AM, Paul Fox <pgf@...> wrote:
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sad news: Bill Wells
Bill Wells was a valuable contributor to this list, and will be
missed. I got the following note last night from his son, Scott. > My father Bill Wells avidly repaired and rebuilt Wheeler and Wilson > sewing machines, and I believe he was an active member of your > community. Dad died at home on April 9. His public-facing > obituary may be found at > > and on Facebook. > He really enjoyed that pastime, and we often spoke of it, down > to the technical challenges of repair and renovation. I didn't > want the people he encountered to wonder what become of him. > Sincerely yours, > Scott Wells I smiled to see Bill's obituary photo, posed with two No.9-class machines. paul =---------------------- paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 60.3 degrees) |
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New kid in town
Hi all,
I’m joining you from Texas. Winters down here are much more tolerable than those I grew up with in Minnesota. Anyway, a long unlikely path of multiple factors has brought me here… from my dislike of shopping, trail running, outdoor gear repair, and the disposable nature of modern domestic sewing machines. Oh, and of course my discovery of Facebook marketplace and EstateSales.net… To make a long story not so long suffice it to say over the last year I’ve been hit hard by the VSM bug and have acquired at least one “really good” sewing machine from every decade from 1910 through 1970. I may have the 1900’s covered, but only if my singer 9W is from that decade, which I don’t believe it is. Anyway the 9W is the most recent addition to the family, and I was mainly intrigued by it because by this point I’ve become pretty familiar with all the different Singers and I found a listing for a “vintage singer”… but it didn’t look like any Singer I’d ever seen, no serial number visible, square pillar, what the heck? Just a beat up paint job and the Singer logo and badge. So I dismissed it as some weird counterfeit… but I was curious because the paint was in pretty rough shape, and it looked age appropriate, so that all seemed odd for a counterfeit. Then I finally discovered the Singer 9W’s and their story. So I pounced on the deal. From what I’ve pieced together, I likely have a 9W-7. It’s Singer branded, with the standard Singer mounts for their treadles, and it takes the FW type bobbins. I haven’t tested this, but the bobbin that was in the bobbin case was that type, not the bagel style. Serial number is W70686, so I’m guessing this one is from near the end of the 9W production. I just got it oiled up, everything broken loose, and I can’t wait to finish cleaning it up and then taking it for a whirl… so smooth. Love the rotary hook. Also, I’ve really enjoyed learning about the story from W&W to singer, if you can’t beat them, buy them! Looking forward to reading through the archives here and continuing a bit further down this rabbit hole. Regards, Joshua |
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Re: New to Group -
开云体育Thank you. The information is helpful. It’s exciting following the leads and learning about this beautiful machine.?Linda? On Apr 9, 2024, at 11:02 AM, MB Freeman <bumby3@...> wrote:
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On Apr 4, 2024, at 8:19?AM, owlridge2020@... wrote:Hello all, I'm new to the group. I just purchased a Singer 9W Treadle. It's serial number is W60188. It's bobbin has holes all around. I'm interested in learning all I can about this machine. I know it's the Singer version of the D9 machine. I'm finding many of the posts and files on this group to be helpful. Just wondering if anyone knows where the "w" serial numbers fall in the production of these machines. Are they the oldest/first ones Singer put out, or did they come along at the end of the production period?
Thank you for any input.?
Linda G
Attachments:
On Apr 4, 2024, at 8:19?AM, owlridge2020@... wrote:Hello all, I'm new to the group. I just purchased a Singer 9W Treadle. It's serial number is W60188. It's bobbin has holes all around. I'm interested in learning all I can about this machine. I know it's the Singer version of the D9 machine. I'm finding many of the posts and files on this group to be helpful. Just wondering if anyone knows where the "w" serial numbers fall in the production of these machines. Are they the oldest/first ones Singer put out, or did they come along at the end of the production period?
Thank you for any input.?
Linda G
I guess I wasn’t clear. I was hoping for video of the offending machine and with the thread I suggested so I and others could try to see where the stitch went wrong.On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 11:35?AM Bruce Siegmund <bsiegmund01@...> wrote:Good day, all!
I am now gratefully accepting? input--thoughts, experience, wild guesses--regarding why the thread on our #3 refuses to pass over the bobbin, instead forging its own path underneath.
Here's what I have tried so far:
Observing the few youtube vids out available;
Searching this group for hints (haven't been able to tease anything out, so please point out known threads that I have missed);
Securing the bobbin thread to the small rod under the cloth plate;
Not securing the bobbin thread beneath the plate;
Tilting the machine (which resulted in one correct motion);
Adjusting the ring slide to be progressively looser or tighter;
Holding the upper thread when starting out;
Not holding the upper thread when starting out;
Adjusting the upper thread tension;
Stringing certain words together in interesting arrangements.
The machine is 1860 vintage. Could the hook simply be worn out?
Thanks in advance,
Ziggy in Maine
Good day, all!
I am now gratefully accepting? input--thoughts, experience, wild guesses--regarding why the thread on our #3 refuses to pass over the bobbin, instead forging its own path underneath.
Here's what I have tried so far:
Observing the few youtube vids out available;
Searching this group for hints (haven't been able to tease anything out, so please point out known threads that I have missed);
Securing the bobbin thread to the small rod under the cloth plate;
Not securing the bobbin thread beneath the plate;
Tilting the machine (which resulted in one correct motion);
Adjusting the ring slide to be progressively looser or tighter;
Holding the upper thread when starting out;
Not holding the upper thread when starting out;
Adjusting the upper thread tension;
Stringing certain words together in interesting arrangements.
The machine is 1860 vintage. Could the hook simply be worn out?
Thanks in advance,
Ziggy in Maine
Can you post a video with the bobbin cover or door open so the bobbin area is exposed,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? forming (or attempting to form) a stitch(es) in slow motion,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?using very high contrast thread in different colors top & bottom?Narration please.SandraOn Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 11:35?AM Bruce Siegmund <bsiegmund01@...> wrote:Good day, all!
I am now gratefully accepting? input--thoughts, experience, wild guesses--regarding why the thread on our #3 refuses to pass over the bobbin, instead forging its own path underneath.
Here's what I have tried so far:
Observing the few youtube vids out available;
Searching this group for hints (haven't been able to tease anything out, so please point out known threads that I have missed);
Securing the bobbin thread to the small rod under the cloth plate;
Not securing the bobbin thread beneath the plate;
Tilting the machine (which resulted in one correct motion);
Adjusting the ring slide to be progressively looser or tighter;
Holding the upper thread when starting out;
Not holding the upper thread when starting out;
Adjusting the upper thread tension;
Stringing certain words together in interesting arrangements.
The machine is 1860 vintage. Could the hook simply be worn out?
Thanks in advance,
Ziggy in Maine
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Good day, all!
I am now gratefully accepting? input--thoughts, experience, wild guesses--regarding why the thread on our #3 refuses to pass over the bobbin, instead forging its own path underneath.
Here's what I have tried so far:
Observing the few youtube vids out available;
Searching this group for hints (haven't been able to tease anything out, so please point out known threads that I have missed);
Securing the bobbin thread to the small rod under the cloth plate;
Not securing the bobbin thread beneath the plate;
Tilting the machine (which resulted in one correct motion);
Adjusting the ring slide to be progressively looser or tighter;
Holding the upper thread when starting out;
Not holding the upper thread when starting out;
Adjusting the upper thread tension;
Stringing certain words together in interesting arrangements.
The machine is 1860 vintage. Could the hook simply be worn out?
Thanks in advance,
Ziggy in Maine
Thank you for the add, happy to be here, learning everything I can about these fantastic machines!? So far I have a curved needle #3, four #8 treadles, a #8 crank, and a D9. I love 8s, as you can tell. Two of them have the early bobbin case and three of them have the later tensioned case. ?
Just reading through old posts for now, I’m sure I’ll have questions as I go along.?
-Lauren
Thank you for the add, happy to be here, learning everything I can about these fantastic machines! ?So far I have a curved needle #3, four #8 treadles, a #8 crank, and a D9. I love 8s, as you can tell. Two of them have the early bobbin case and three of them have the later tensioned case. ?
Just reading through old posts for now, I’m sure I’ll have questions as I go along.?
-Lauren
So to confirm, you are stating it was possible for Singer to continue to make 9W’s in England with the existing W&W machinery? ?The machine I happened to have is mounted in a Singer cabinet with Singer logo. Do you think Singer would produce their cabinets here in the USA and then ship them to England for installation of their machine?? Considering my machine sits in a Singer cabinet makes me think what you stated about the change of base size for Singer cabinets reduces the chance it came from England, what do you think?On Feb 6, 2024, at 4:28?AM, Bill Wells <ronone69@...> wrote:It is very possible for your mother to have brought over a W&W (clone or otherwise). W&W also had a factory in England, and the equipment was already there. Singer bought out W&W in 1905 and continued manufacturing them for several years.? The cloned W&Ws have a different length base. Singer changed the length to match their cabinets.? The different in the W&W base and that of the Singer clones is about 5/8s of an inch.On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 8:34?PM MB Freeman <bumby3@...> wrote:Bill,?Thank you for the quick reply.? I am not at your level with Singer and Wheeler & Wilson history so I am not sure what you wrote. Is the Dw1 and Dw7 you mentioned the same as the 9W1 and 9W7?? Do you think the plant in England made W&W clones?? Do you think they would import Wheeler & Wilson’s machinery to produce just those cloned machines?I know you are just guessing but, what do you think is most probable based upon your experience with those two companies?? My mother claims she brought hers (now mine) over in a steamer trunk from Ireland on the RMS Mauritania so that is my reason for bringing up this question.? She liked to spin a good yarn and I am always skeptical but, she knew how the foot treadle motion was done when we talked about the machine at 95 years of age.MaryOn Feb 5, 2024, at 4:17?PM, Bill Wells <ronone69@...> wrote:I hop this helps.Mary,? It is possible that Singer's Plant in England made the Dw1 and Dw7.? The machines were still popular with W&W fans.? However, technology was changing, and the Singer clones of the W&W models did not keep up.? One of the things Singer did in the 9w& was to change the bobbin carrier and bobbin to the standard Singer bobbin.? Another thing that could have been done is to change the needle to the standard Singer version.? I have done this on two W&W machines because of the cost lity of needles today.?? However, both W&W bobbins and needles were still readily available in the late 1940s.?Another thing Singer could have done was to make electric models of their machines.? However, as I noted the period of the W&W clones had passed.On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 2:44?PM MB Freeman <bumby3@...> wrote:Bill,?Based upon your catalog and parts research, do you think in your opinion the Singer 9W1 and 9W7 machines were ever made anywhere else besides the united States?Kindly,Mary FreemanOn Jul 23, 2023, at 3:03?PM, Bill Wells <ronone69@...> wrote:I hope this answers your questions. Have a good day.The base document is a rehabilitation of the 1919 Singer Parts List.? If you have ever seen the copy circulating on the internet you will see why I did this. It is nearly illegible in text and imagery.? I included parts lists in numerical and alphabetical forms - something not in the original.? The original book was some 30+ pages.? Mine is 153 pages with some color images.?Mary,? I suppose you mean the variations of the W&W machines, No. 9, D9, 9w1 and 9w7.? In short, no, I did not include photos of the machines because outwardly they are nearly identical.??What I did do is include variants of parts and I do show images of determining the differences of the No. 9 and D9 machines as well as the few differences of the 9w7.? The 9w1 is identical to the D9.On Sun, Jul 23, 2023 at 1:33?PM MB Freeman <bumby3@...> wrote:Bill,Does you book feature many pictures of complete Singer machine variations as it evolved through production changes or is it primarily a parts handbook?Sincerely,Mary F.On Jul 21, 2023, at 8:52 AM, Bill Wells <ronone69@...> wrote:I would like to announce that I self-published a reworking of the 1919 Singer 9w1 and 9w7 Parts List. These parts are nearly all compatible with the W&W 9 and D9 machines from which Singer cloned.
I have improved the illustrations by photographing original parts or computer reworking other images.? I also added more information at appropriate places including variants of attachments and other part. Added also are previously non-existent numerical and alphabetical listing of the parts. I believe the 153-page book will be helpful of all? people interested in the Singer and W&W versions.? It is on Amazon and available on Kindle and in paperback.
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On Feb 6, 2024, at 4:28?AM, Bill Wells <ronone69@...> wrote:It is very possible for your mother to have brought over a W&W (clone or otherwise). W&W also had a factory in England, and the equipment was already there. Singer bought out W&W in 1905 and continued manufacturing them for several years.? The cloned W&Ws have a different length base. Singer changed the length to match their cabinets.? The different in the W&W base and that of the Singer clones is about 5/8s of an inch.On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 8:34?PM MB Freeman <bumby3@...> wrote:Bill,?Thank you for the quick reply.? I am not at your level with Singer and Wheeler & Wilson history so I am not sure what you wrote. Is the Dw1 and Dw7 you mentioned the same as the 9W1 and 9W7?? Do you think the plant in England made W&W clones?? Do you think they would import Wheeler & Wilson’s machinery to produce just those cloned machines?I know you are just guessing but, what do you think is most probable based upon your experience with those two companies?? My mother claims she brought hers (now mine) over in a steamer trunk from Ireland on the RMS Mauritania so that is my reason for bringing up this question.? She liked to spin a good yarn and I am always skeptical but, she knew how the foot treadle motion was done when we talked about the machine at 95 years of age.MaryOn Feb 5, 2024, at 4:17?PM, Bill Wells <ronone69@...> wrote:I hop this helps.Mary,? It is possible that Singer's Plant in England made the Dw1 and Dw7.? The machines were still popular with W&W fans.? However, technology was changing, and the Singer clones of the W&W models did not keep up.? One of the things Singer did in the 9w& was to change the bobbin carrier and bobbin to the standard Singer bobbin.? Another thing that could have been done is to change the needle to the standard Singer version.? I have done this on two W&W machines because of the cost lity of needles today.?? However, both W&W bobbins and needles were still readily available in the late 1940s.?Another thing Singer could have done was to make electric models of their machines.? However, as I noted the period of the W&W clones had passed.On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 2:44?PM MB Freeman <bumby3@...> wrote:Bill,?Based upon your catalog and parts research, do you think in your opinion the Singer 9W1 and 9W7 machines were ever made anywhere else besides the united States?Kindly,Mary FreemanOn Jul 23, 2023, at 3:03?PM, Bill Wells <ronone69@...> wrote:I hope this answers your questions. Have a good day.The base document is a rehabilitation of the 1919 Singer Parts List.? If you have ever seen the copy circulating on the internet you will see why I did this. It is nearly illegible in text and imagery.? I included parts lists in numerical and alphabetical forms - something not in the original.? The original book was some 30+ pages.? Mine is 153 pages with some color images.?Mary,? I suppose you mean the variations of the W&W machines, No. 9, D9, 9w1 and 9w7.? In short, no, I did not include photos of the machines because outwardly they are nearly identical.??What I did do is include variants of parts and I do show images of determining the differences of the No. 9 and D9 machines as well as the few differences of the 9w7.? The 9w1 is identical to the D9.On Sun, Jul 23, 2023 at 1:33?PM MB Freeman <bumby3@...> wrote:Bill,Does you book feature many pictures of complete Singer machine variations as it evolved through production changes or is it primarily a parts handbook?Sincerely,Mary F.On Jul 21, 2023, at 8:52 AM, Bill Wells <ronone69@...> wrote:I would like to announce that I self-published a reworking of the 1919 Singer 9w1 and 9w7 Parts List. These parts are nearly all compatible with the W&W 9 and D9 machines from which Singer cloned.
I have improved the illustrations by photographing original parts or computer reworking other images.? I also added more information at appropriate places including variants of attachments and other part. Added also are previously non-existent numerical and alphabetical listing of the parts. I believe the 153-page book will be helpful of all? people interested in the Singer and W&W versions.? It is on Amazon and available on Kindle and in paperback.
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Bill,?Thank you for the quick reply.? I am not at your level with Singer and Wheeler & Wilson history so I am not sure what you wrote. Is the Dw1 and Dw7 you mentioned the same as the 9W1 and 9W7?? Do you think the plant in England made W&W clones?? Do you think they would import Wheeler & Wilson’s machinery to produce just those cloned machines?I know you are just guessing but, what do you think is most probable based upon your experience with those two companies?? My mother claims she brought hers (now mine) over in a steamer trunk from Ireland on the RMS Mauritania so that is my reason for bringing up this question.? She liked to spin a good yarn and I am always skeptical but, she knew how the foot treadle motion was done when we talked about the machine at 95 years of age.MaryOn Feb 5, 2024, at 4:17?PM, Bill Wells <ronone69@...> wrote:I hop this helps.Mary,? It is possible that Singer's Plant in England made the Dw1 and Dw7.? The machines were still popular with W&W fans.? However, technology was changing, and the Singer clones of the W&W models did not keep up.? One of the things Singer did in the 9w& was to change the bobbin carrier and bobbin to the standard Singer bobbin.? Another thing that could have been done is to change the needle to the standard Singer version.? I have done this on two W&W machines because of the cost lity of needles today.?? However, both W&W bobbins and needles were still readily available in the late 1940s.?Another thing Singer could have done was to make electric models of their machines.? However, as I noted the period of the W&W clones had passed.On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 2:44?PM MB Freeman <bumby3@...> wrote:Bill,?Based upon your catalog and parts research, do you think in your opinion the Singer 9W1 and 9W7 machines were ever made anywhere else besides the united States?Kindly,Mary FreemanOn Jul 23, 2023, at 3:03?PM, Bill Wells <ronone69@...> wrote:I hope this answers your questions. Have a good day.The base document is a rehabilitation of the 1919 Singer Parts List.? If you have ever seen the copy circulating on the internet you will see why I did this. It is nearly illegible in text and imagery.? I included parts lists in numerical and alphabetical forms - something not in the original.? The original book was some 30+ pages.? Mine is 153 pages with some color images.?Mary,? I suppose you mean the variations of the W&W machines, No. 9, D9, 9w1 and 9w7.? In short, no, I did not include photos of the machines because outwardly they are nearly identical.??What I did do is include variants of parts and I do show images of determining the differences of the No. 9 and D9 machines as well as the few differences of the 9w7.? The 9w1 is identical to the D9.On Sun, Jul 23, 2023 at 1:33?PM MB Freeman <bumby3@...> wrote:Bill,Does you book feature many pictures of complete Singer machine variations as it evolved through production changes or is it primarily a parts handbook?Sincerely,Mary F.On Jul 21, 2023, at 8:52 AM, Bill Wells <ronone69@...> wrote:I would like to announce that I self-published a reworking of the 1919 Singer 9w1 and 9w7 Parts List. These parts are nearly all compatible with the W&W 9 and D9 machines from which Singer cloned.
I have improved the illustrations by photographing original parts or computer reworking other images.? I also added more information at appropriate places including variants of attachments and other part. Added also are previously non-existent numerical and alphabetical listing of the parts. I believe the 153-page book will be helpful of all? people interested in the Singer and W&W versions.? It is on Amazon and available on Kindle and in paperback.
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On Feb 5, 2024, at 4:17?PM, Bill Wells <ronone69@...> wrote:I hop this helps.Mary,? It is possible that Singer's Plant in England made the Dw1 and Dw7.? The machines were still popular with W&W fans.? However, technology was changing, and the Singer clones of the W&W models did not keep up.? One of the things Singer did in the 9w& was to change the bobbin carrier and bobbin to the standard Singer bobbin.? Another thing that could have been done is to change the needle to the standard Singer version.? I have done this on two W&W machines because of the cost lity of needles today.?? However, both W&W bobbins and needles were still readily available in the late 1940s.?Another thing Singer could have done was to make electric models of their machines.? However, as I noted the period of the W&W clones had passed.On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 2:44?PM MB Freeman <bumby3@...> wrote:Bill,?Based upon your catalog and parts research, do you think in your opinion the Singer 9W1 and 9W7 machines were ever made anywhere else besides the united States?Kindly,Mary FreemanOn Jul 23, 2023, at 3:03?PM, Bill Wells <ronone69@...> wrote:I hope this answers your questions. Have a good day.The base document is a rehabilitation of the 1919 Singer Parts List.? If you have ever seen the copy circulating on the internet you will see why I did this. It is nearly illegible in text and imagery.? I included parts lists in numerical and alphabetical forms - something not in the original.? The original book was some 30+ pages.? Mine is 153 pages with some color images.?Mary,? I suppose you mean the variations of the W&W machines, No. 9, D9, 9w1 and 9w7.? In short, no, I did not include photos of the machines because outwardly they are nearly identical.??What I did do is include variants of parts and I do show images of determining the differences of the No. 9 and D9 machines as well as the few differences of the 9w7.? The 9w1 is identical to the D9.On Sun, Jul 23, 2023 at 1:33?PM MB Freeman <bumby3@...> wrote:Bill,Does you book feature many pictures of complete Singer machine variations as it evolved through production changes or is it primarily a parts handbook?Sincerely,Mary F.On Jul 21, 2023, at 8:52 AM, Bill Wells <ronone69@...> wrote:I would like to announce that I self-published a reworking of the 1919 Singer 9w1 and 9w7 Parts List. These parts are nearly all compatible with the W&W 9 and D9 machines from which Singer cloned.
I have improved the illustrations by photographing original parts or computer reworking other images.? I also added more information at appropriate places including variants of attachments and other part. Added also are previously non-existent numerical and alphabetical listing of the parts. I believe the 153-page book will be helpful of all? people interested in the Singer and W&W versions.? It is on Amazon and available on Kindle and in paperback.
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LISA A
