Re: New Singer 9w1 and 9w7 Book
Mary,? It is possible that Singer's Plant in England made the Dw1 and Dw7.? The machines were still popular with W&W fans.? However, technology was changing, and the Singer clones of the W&W models did not keep up.? One of the things Singer did in the 9w& was to change the bobbin carrier and bobbin to the standard Singer bobbin.? Another thing that could have been done is to change the needle to the standard Singer version.? I have done this on two W&W machines because of the cost lity of needles today.?? However, both W&W bobbins and needles were still readily available in the late 1940s.
Another thing Singer could have done was to make electric models of their machines.? However, as I noted the period of the W&W clones had passed. I hop this helps.
On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 2:44?PM MB Freeman < bumby3@...> wrote: Bill,
?Based upon your catalog and parts research, do you think in your opinion the Singer 9W1 and 9W7 machines were ever made anywhere else besides the united States?
Kindly, Mary Freeman On Jul 23, 2023, at 3:03?PM, Bill Wells < ronone69@...> wrote:
Mary,? I suppose you mean the variations of the W&W machines, No. 9, D9, 9w1 and 9w7.? In short, no, I did not include photos of the machines because outwardly they are nearly identical.??
What I did do is include variants of parts and I do show images of determining the differences of the No. 9 and D9 machines as well as the few differences of the 9w7.? The 9w1 is identical to the D9. The base document is a rehabilitation of the 1919 Singer Parts List.? If you have ever seen the copy circulating on the internet you will see why I did this. It is nearly illegible in text and imagery.? I included parts lists in numerical and alphabetical forms - something not in the original.? The original book was some 30+ pages.? Mine is 153 pages with some color images. ?I hope this answers your questions. Have a good day. On Sun, Jul 23, 2023 at 1:33?PM MB Freeman < bumby3@...> wrote: Bill,
Does you book feature many pictures of complete Singer machine variations as it evolved through production changes or is it primarily a parts handbook?
Sincerely, Mary F. On Jul 21, 2023, at 8:52 AM, Bill Wells < ronone69@...> wrote:
I would like to announce that I self-published a reworking of the 1919 Singer 9w1 and 9w7 Parts List. These parts are nearly all compatible with the W&W 9 and D9 machines from which Singer cloned. I have improved the illustrations by photographing original parts or computer reworking other images.? I also added more information at appropriate places including variants of attachments and other part. Added also are previously non-existent numerical and alphabetical listing of the parts. I believe the 153-page book will be helpful of all? people interested in the Singer and W&W versions.? It is on Amazon and available on Kindle and in paperback. ?
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Re: New Singer 9w1 and 9w7 Book
Bill,
?Based upon your catalog and parts research, do you think in your opinion the Singer 9W1 and 9W7 machines were ever made anywhere else besides the united States?
Kindly,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 23, 2023, at 3:03?PM, Bill Wells <ronone69@...> wrote:
Mary,? I suppose you mean the variations of the W&W machines, No. 9, D9, 9w1 and 9w7.? In short, no, I did not include photos of the machines because outwardly they are nearly identical.??
What I did do is include variants of parts and I do show images of determining the differences of the No. 9 and D9 machines as well as the few differences of the 9w7.? The 9w1 is identical to the D9. The base document is a rehabilitation of the 1919 Singer Parts List.? If you have ever seen the copy circulating on the internet you will see why I did this. It is nearly illegible in text and imagery.? I included parts lists in numerical and alphabetical forms - something not in the original.? The original book was some 30+ pages.? Mine is 153 pages with some color images. ?I hope this answers your questions. Have a good day. On Sun, Jul 23, 2023 at 1:33?PM MB Freeman < bumby3@...> wrote: Bill,
Does you book feature many pictures of complete Singer machine variations as it evolved through production changes or is it primarily a parts handbook?
Sincerely, Mary F. On Jul 21, 2023, at 8:52 AM, Bill Wells < ronone69@...> wrote:
I would like to announce that I self-published a reworking of the 1919 Singer 9w1 and 9w7 Parts List. These parts are nearly all compatible with the W&W 9 and D9 machines from which Singer cloned. I have improved the illustrations by photographing original parts or computer reworking other images.? I also added more information at appropriate places including variants of attachments and other part. Added also are previously non-existent numerical and alphabetical listing of the parts. I believe the 153-page book will be helpful of all? people interested in the Singer and W&W versions.? It is on Amazon and available on Kindle and in paperback. ?
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Wow! Thank you, Bill. That¡¯s great. And, a lot of work. I have most of a 12W100 and would contribute any useful information for that to you for the database you are compiling. I¡¯ve acquired?almost?all the parts now. ?
On Tuesday, November 29, 2022, Bill Wells < ronone69@...> wrote: The 120-page catalog does not have individual machine parts. It is a product catalog with some attachments and such.? I bet the Smithsonian will publish the W&W catalog with their other copies.?? I would still be interested in finding original W&W parts lists.
I recommend using the Singer 9w parts catalog for the present.? It is a difficult document because it appears to have poorly photocopied and did not make a good digital representation.? I am in the process of transcribing the Singer 9w parts list with some improvements.? I am photographing the parts and exchanging them for the 19th Century illustrations. The document will also be searchable.?? To make things worse, or better, I am adding appendix sheets that show the same parts of a different design.? I am using the same Singer numbers to make searching these parts easier.? One appendix will show the same screws and other parts on different assemblies.? I have not gone into other machines to see if the same parts were used in them but I have seen some.? Why make new parts when the older ones worked? So far, the work has been tedious but I am enjoying the accomplishment.? I am hoping the work will make parts identification easier for everyone.?
Many thanks to Bill and others in regard to sharing the digital files, when available. I look forward to seeing what I can learn about my bare little model 8 that I got cheap from a charity shop. I know very little but I think it's just wonderful anyway, missing parts and all.?
--
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Re: De-neglecting Curved Needles
Thanks, Suzanne, that's brilliant!? I did take after the grooves with an xacto knife, which helped a lot.? The foam nail file would also be useful for removal of crustiness on other small metal parts, I'd wager.? Definitely gonna try that.
And, yes, saving them is really crucial.? A set of 11 needles, sizes 1, 2, 2 1/2, 3 and 4, two of which have the W&W label stamped into them--this is one of our better finds, for sure!? Got to make sure they are properly maintained!
Thx again! Ziggy
On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 12:07?PM Suzanne R < suzrevell@...> wrote: I have successfully cleaned up old curved needles. I use a foam-backed nail file and a microscope to see my work. After cleaning off rust and sharpening the point a bit, I use a fine needle to clean the groove. Once done, I use silver polish (carefully) to polish up the needle. Best of luck! Those Florence needles are certainly worth saving!
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Re: De-neglecting Curved Needles
I have successfully cleaned up old curved needles. I use a foam-backed nail file and a microscope to see my work. After cleaning off rust and sharpening the point a bit, I use a fine needle to clean the groove. Once done, I use silver polish (carefully) to polish up the needle. Best of luck! Those Florence needles are certainly worth saving!
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Re: De-neglecting Curved Needles
I picked up a bunch of curved needles with an old Florence I purchased.? They are badly rusted. I wonder if nickel plating and sharpening will restore them to usefulness. Anybody had any experience with that?
On Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 8:46?AM Paul Fox < pgf@...> wrote: bruce wrote:
?>? ? Thanks, John, we aren't to the point of making our own needles...yet!? We
?>? ? may get there.
That being said, I think many folks, me included, would like to hear
how John's friend did that.? Pretty impressive.
paul
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 15.5 degrees)
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Re: De-neglecting Curved Needles
bruce wrote:
> Thanks, John, we aren't to the point of making our own needles...yet! We
> may get there.
That being said, I think many folks, me included, would like to hear
how John's friend did that. Pretty impressive.
paul
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 15.5 degrees)
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Re: De-neglecting Curved Needles
Thanks, John, we aren't to the point of making our own needles...yet!? We may get there.
There was a nice array of needles with this #3, and they're not in terrible condition, but there is some light corrosion on them.? If I can clean the corroded spots up and sharpen them a bit, they may work just fine.?? Thanks again Ziggy
On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 4:09?AM John Harrison < jdhtyler@...> wrote: Hi It is possible to bend your own, my guess if I had to do it I would tape it on a leather belt that was on a bunch of rags and use a few burnishing strokes with something like a socket set extension bar. the bunch of rags will give under pressure to allow the curve to form the extension bar chrome surface should not damage the needle?? Some needles are hardened differently and may snap keep the bending action above the eye I have only done this while making springs and needles are more brittle I would not be keen on using heat to change the temper hardness but that would be my last resort??
A friend of mine he used to work for Singer as and industrial service engineer and now works for himself he is 88y he bent his own needles for a WW3 It will be a few weeks before I can ask him how he did it.
The wildest thing I had to bend straight was the telescopic motorbike forks that were out of whack by about 2 or 3 inches I had access to a hydraulic press etc.
all the best
Good chilly AM to all,
Anybody have any thoughts/techniques for restoring curved needles?? I guess, more than that, I kind of know of a number of options, I guess it'd be good to know if it's worth the effort.? Like, when you're done de-pitting and de-rusting and trying to shine them up, will they actually work properly?? I'm thinking the groove is gonna be a challenge to clean out in a few of these that came with the ill-advised #3 (that I got even though it was ill-advised!).
Thanks, and stay warm!
Ziggy
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Re: De-neglecting Curved Needles
Hi It is possible to bend your own, my guess if I had to do it I would tape it on a leather belt that was on a bunch of rags and use a few burnishing strokes with something like a socket set extension bar. the bunch of rags will give under pressure to allow the curve to form the extension bar chrome surface should not damage the needle?? Some needles are hardened differently and may snap keep the bending action above the eye I have only done this while making springs and needles are more brittle I would not be keen on using heat to change the temper hardness but that would be my last resort??
A friend of mine he used to work for Singer as and industrial service engineer and now works for himself he is 88y he bent his own needles for a WW3 It will be a few weeks before I can ask him how he did it.
The wildest thing I had to bend straight was the telescopic motorbike forks that were out of whack by about 2 or 3 inches I had access to a hydraulic press etc.
all the best
Good chilly AM to all,
Anybody have any thoughts/techniques for restoring curved needles?? I guess, more than that, I kind of know of a number of options, I guess it'd be good to know if it's worth the effort.? Like, when you're done de-pitting and de-rusting and trying to shine them up, will they actually work properly?? I'm thinking the groove is gonna be a challenge to clean out in a few of these that came with the ill-advised #3 (that I got even though it was ill-advised!).
Thanks, and stay warm!
Ziggy
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De-neglecting Curved Needles
Good chilly AM to all,
Anybody have any thoughts/techniques for restoring curved needles?? I guess, more than that, I kind of know of a number of options, I guess it'd be good to know if it's worth the effort.? Like, when you're done de-pitting and de-rusting and trying to shine them up, will they actually work properly?? I'm thinking the groove is gonna be a challenge to clean out in a few of these that came with the ill-advised #3 (that I got even though it was ill-advised!).
Thanks, and stay warm!
Ziggy
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Agatha - unfortunately, only have the name of the previous owner (not of the Snyder family name), and the serial number gives an estimated date of manufacture of 1872. Don¡¯t have information on where the machine was originally found. For those of you who may have Carter Bays¡¯ ¡°Encyclopedia of Antique and Early American Sewing Machines¡± 3rd edition (green cover) the machine is shown in Figure 2-321, left side.
Instinct tells me the name was stamped there during the manufacture of the machine by W&W, not by an individual. I don¡¯t know whether Mr. Snyder was the purchaser, an intended recipient of a gift from W&W, or possibly he had something to do with the design and manufacture of the machine.
Now I¡¯m off to try my limited skills searching for clues on the internet!
Regards,
John
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Interesting--kind of leads me to believe that these are an owner's initials.? A modest owner, apparently!
As is our wont, we're tempted to leave a note for the seller (machine acquired from an antique mall) to see if we can glean any general information about the history/origin of the machine.? Perhaps we, as with Agatha, are interested in historical aspects...or we're just plain nosy.
Ziggy
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Hey John,?
Do you have any clues about W. B. Snyder at all? General location(s) where the machine has lived? Date of the machine??
I've had some luck discovering info on previous owners of my vintage & antique items (long dead people - I'm not trying to find or dox the living ?). I was a historical researcher for years. Now it's just a hobby.?
Agatha?
We do have a 3/4-sized W&W machine which has the name ¡°W. B. Snyder¡± stamped into the body of the machine one one of the supports, under the cloth plate.? Haven¡¯t yet discovered who W.B. Snyder was.?
Regards,
John
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Haven¡¯t seen engraved initials on the cloth plate of a W&W before. I just checked our ca 1856 head and confirmed no initials present. Curious place to put someone¡¯s initials. You¡¯d think if the machine were a gift, or a personalized machine, the initials would look better smack dab in the middle of the cloth plate.
We do have a 3/4-sized W&W machine which has the name ¡°W. B. Snyder¡± stamped into the body of the machine one one of the supports, under the cloth plate. Haven¡¯t yet discovered who W.B. Snyder was.
Regards,
John
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In the process of attempting to polish the cloth plate on the newly-arrived #3, I thought I saw odd scratches near the bolt hole.? Upon closer inspection, it is clearly a set of initials.? Has anybody seen this on a cloth plate?? Initials of the owner?? Initials of inspector/workman?? Stamped?? Engraved?? The last initial is a "W," which may or may not be relevant to the machine being a Wheeler & Wilson. Any input appreciated! Thanks, Ziggy 
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Sorry, I didn't mean to mislead!? I posted early about some parts I have left over from a #3, and failed to include the parts list and prices.??
The ad implied that we were letting the parts go for postage.? My bad.
Available are:
Brush and check segment (no brush) $5
Frog arm w/ hinge and screw $8
Needle arm w/ screw $8
Hook and spindle (properly cleaned) $25
Cloth plate $5
Some knucklehead spray-painted the poor thing black and tried to make a lamp out of it or something.? The hook and spindle are very clean, frog, needle are, cloth plate are still spray painted, brush segment is just a bit rusted.
Again sorry for any confusion (JP).?
Seller pays shipping, PayPal.
Thanks,
Ziggy?
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Re: Early Machines in Maine
That's great!? Certainly, making a good friend is worth a little extra on a week's worth of groceries!
Bruce, we lived in the middle east for a year while I was a child.? That did NOT go well.? Everything is a negotiation and my mother paid waaaay to much for groceries our first week there, until an Arab neighbor took pity and started going shopping with her.? They became good friends and communicated for years so there was an upside.
--
Calvin Armerding
Chair, International Sewing Machine Collectors Society
"Bother" said Pooh, as he connected at 14.4kbps
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Re: Early Machines in Maine
Bruce, we lived in the middle east for a year while I was a child.? That did NOT go well.? Everything is a negotiation and my mother paid waaaay to much for groceries our first week there, until an Arab neighbor took pity and started going shopping with her.? They became good friends and communicated for years so there was an upside.
--
Calvin Armerding
Chair, International Sewing Machine Collectors Society
"Bother" said Pooh, as he connected at 14.4kbps
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Re: Early Machines in Maine
I would have paid that if given the chance. But then again, value is whatever someone is willing to pay.?
On Jan 3, 2024 7:10 PM, "Roxy via groups.io" <rgrinnell2010@...> wrote: I would pay $250 without much hesitation.? My W&W 3 cost exactly that--plus finding it in my area was an absolute miracle.? (I'm in the "antique sewing machine desert" of western Colorado.) ? ? ?
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Re: Early Machines in Maine
That gives me a chuckle...I, too, have evolved from a long line of English-persons. I'd rather eat barbed wire than haggle.? BUT...we've been bingeing on "Antiques Road Trip" and seen auctioneers make totally insulting offers on things and they weren't struck by lightning or anything.? The other saving grace was that the seller wasn't in the building, so it was actually the mall owner who was doing the talking.? It's like I wasn't even there!
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Suzanne R
Agatha Harkness
LISA A