No, this guy came gunning past on a bend while I was accelerating out of a
thirty limit. I was two up and was taking it easy accordingly. His exhausts
were loud enough to startle me. I knew he and his mates were behind and so I
was not only keeping well in front so as not to inconvenience them, but I
had shifted down into fourth to ensure I would be accelerating briskly so
any cruising Harleys would be able to blat away without getting any pesky
Jap bikes in the way of their stately progress. He was trying about as hard
as he could. I was doing 95 in third, shifting into fourth, and cranked hard
over when I went past him and the Harley's induction note still drowned out
the W...He was wide open and trying hard.

Of course it could be that the person who buys a Sportster couldn't give a
toss whether you out accelerate them or not. Maybe they are happy just
cruising at their own pace
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonhaddock@..." <jonhaddock@...>
To: <W650riders@...>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650

It might make 20 bhp more but it is not only hauling a fair bit more
weight,
but it can't rev anywhere near as high at any given speed. The W can be
always be at least one gear lower. THAT is what most people fail to factor
in... rear wheel torque ( which is the ONLY torque that matters), is a
product of engine torque minus transmission losses over gearbox ratio ...

If you have 100lbsft over a 1:1 gear ratio you have 100 lbs ft

If you have 50 lbs ft over a 0.5 to one ratio, you have 100 lbs ft

That's why a weedy little Jap 600 can make a 1200cc Harley with all that
crankshaft torque look like a garbage truck in the acceleration stakes.
...gearing and revs.

A stock W is tailing off above 6500 rpm, an opened up one is still pulling
at 8000. No tester worth his salt is going to waste his time revving a
stock
bike past 7000 so they shift up. My bike still has a 1000rpm left in that
lower gear before I change...AND I'm dropping into the next higher gear
with
proportionally more power available.
Basically, When that guy came past, I simply shifted down three gears....I
never even saw top gear. The Sportster would have had to have been at
least
3000 rpm lower at a similar speed and that is a VERY big difference in
gear
ratios to overcome.

Jon

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Triumph Bonneville..477 lbs dry
Harley Davidson Sportster 883...502 lbs dry
Kawasaki W 650...450 lbs dry
Harley Davidson Sportster 1200 Roadster..584 lbs wet (couldn't find dry)

Gas weighs 5.68 lbs per US gallon, oil 2 lbs per quart..shouldn't be
terribly hard to do the math if you knew the capacities..which I don't.



James Franklin
2411 Pine Summit DR. E
Jacksonville, Florida 32211

808-225-0994 (cell)





From: Ruari McLennan <r.mclennan@...>
Reply-To: W650riders@...
To: W650riders@...
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 20:19:21 -0700

How much does the Halrey weigh, James?

Ruari

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Franklin" <jimw650@...>
To: <W650riders@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650

A stock 1200 Sportster is doing the 1/4 in 13.02...half a second quicker
than the fastest W 650 I have ever seen a test on. At 100 MPH (the HDs
terminal speed), 1/2 second would be about 75 feet ahead, the W rider
would
know he lost, but the Sportster rider would know he was close.

The 1200 makes 64.4 HP, 20 more than a stock W.

It's stock torque is 72.7 lb-ft at 3700 RPM, which would be around 70

MPH,

or twice what the W has at that speed in 5th.

A W, not even a 50 HP W, is not much of a roll-on challenge for a 1200
Sportster.

But an 883, which costs (supposedly) closer to the W, really isn't in the
same performance class.

The 883 makes 43.1 HP, about two less than the average W, yet weighs 50
lbs
more.

the 883 makes 43 ft lbs torque at 4550 RPM, the W 37.5 5100 RPM (that is
around 80 MPH for the W)

The best 1/4 mile I have seen for an 883..15.16 sec at 88.33 MPH (that
puts
it right there with a good Honda CB 350 or a Suzuki X6 Hustler). The
slowest W test I have is 14.33 @ 92.34

The W, when compared to the Sportster, is a revver. When you compare it
to
a stock 883, you get a lot more performance for your money. The 883

needs

pipes, and a cam, with a little chip manipulation to match a stock W.

Not

much after market hi-perf stuff is available for the W, but the W is a
retro, and it is quicker than a 60s Bonneville or Lightning. And the W

is

pretty low key, it has a compression ratio of only 8.4 to 1, whereas the
Yamaha XS 650 was 10 to 1. Has anyone shaved the heads on a W to see

what

kind of power is available there? Jon, you just did pipes and jets and
got
50 HP.

Jon, you probably beat the rider, not the machine, if what you rolled

away

from was a 1200 and you did it in 5th gear, but there is no dishonor in
downshifting if the other bike has a 500cc advantage. I have ridden a lot
of
Sportsters (883s/1000s/1200s)..none of the rubber mounted engine ones
yet..but I never rode a Sportster as comfortable as the W, or as

confidant

at parking lot speeds. And I bet Lucy was much more comfortable on the
back
of your W than she would have been on that skinny slab HD provides for a
passenger on the Sportster.



James Franklin
2411 Pine Summit DR. E
Jacksonville, Florida 32211

808-225-0994 (cell)





From: "Jonhaddock@..." <jonhaddock@...>
Reply-To: W650riders@...
To: <W650riders@...>
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 01:56:42 +0100


Well a stock one isn't as quick as a W650 which is about as slow as

modern

motorcycles get....which makes the Sporty pretty slow. Certainly my

warmed

up W will beat a loud piped 1200 Sporty from 60 to 100 plus....two
up.....And Lucy was on the back when we did it...

A 1200 Sporty is by no means slow. It's about as fast a Harley
platform as there is. /--- In W650riders@..., "Alexander
Ward" <award@...> wrote:

I've been lurking on this list for years, but now I have to chime

in

on this topic.

I think the Sportster is a great partner to the W650. I have both

a

2000 W650 and a 1996 Sportster XL1200S Sport. The Sport has
adjustable Showa forks and dual front discs. If you add rearsets

and

clipons and a decent seat, then it becomes a really fun scoot. '

No, it is not particularly fast, but the wide flat powerband
and more than ample torque combine with decent handling and

braking

to make it easy to ride without requiring a lot of work. If you
switch to 17" wheels and sticky tires it gets even better. Don't
worry about the vibration if you buy an older one with a solid-

mount

engine, just install BalanceMasters active vibration dampers and
fiddle with the final drive ratios (or even switch to chain drive)
and once it is dialed in, then just enjoy it.

Although any Japanese 600 can run rings around it, that is

balanced

out by the double-takes from all of the head-to-toe leather-clad
dumplings on their cool Harleys who are cruising along at 30mph

when

you pass them on the outside of a curve.

You do have to think about it though. One of the classic

disparaging

comments about Harleys is that they vibrate so much that parts

fall

off. It is true, too. the first time I rode the Sporty any
distance, both mirrors, the taillight, and one turn signal fell

off.

I felt like I had finally gained admittance to a long and proud
tradition!

At any rate, keep the W650, get a Sportster too.

Alex

--- In W650riders@..., "Larry Botheras"
<larry.botheras@> wrote:

Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty

will

feel

slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD

never

quote)

but it is a lot heavier



From: W650riders@...

[mailto:W650riders@...] On

Behalf Of John
Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39
To: W650riders@...
Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650



I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the

w.

What

are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200 roadster?

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15:36

_________________________________________________________________
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It might make 20 bhp more but it is not only hauling a fair bit more weight,
but it can't rev anywhere near as high at any given speed. The W can be
always be at least one gear lower. THAT is what most people fail to factor
in... rear wheel torque ( which is the ONLY torque that matters), is a
product of engine torque minus transmission losses over gearbox ratio ...

If you have 100lbsft over a 1:1 gear ratio you have 100 lbs ft

If you have 50 lbs ft over a 0.5 to one ratio, you have 100 lbs ft

That's why a weedy little Jap 600 can make a 1200cc Harley with all that
crankshaft torque look like a garbage truck in the acceleration stakes.
...gearing and revs.

A stock W is tailing off above 6500 rpm, an opened up one is still pulling
at 8000. No tester worth his salt is going to waste his time revving a stock
bike past 7000 so they shift up. My bike still has a 1000rpm left in that
lower gear before I change...AND I'm dropping into the next higher gear with
proportionally more power available.
Basically, When that guy came past, I simply shifted down three gears....I
never even saw top gear. The Sportster would have had to have been at least
3000 rpm lower at a similar speed and that is a VERY big difference in gear
ratios to overcome.

Jon

A stock 1200 Sportster is doing the 1/4 in 13.02...half a second quicker
than the fastest W 650 I have ever seen a test on. At 100 MPH (the HDs
terminal speed), 1/2 second would be about 75 feet ahead, the W rider would
know he lost, but the Sportster rider would know he was close.

The 1200 makes 64.4 HP, 20 more than a stock W.

It's stock torque is 72.7 lb-ft at 3700 RPM, which would be around 70 MPH,
or twice what the W has at that speed in 5th.

A W, not even a 50 HP W, is not much of a roll-on challenge for a 1200
Sportster.

But an 883, which costs (supposedly) closer to the W, really isn't in the
same performance class.

The 883 makes 43.1 HP, about two less than the average W, yet weighs 50 lbs
more.

the 883 makes 43 ft lbs torque at 4550 RPM, the W 37.5 5100 RPM (that is
around 80 MPH for the W)

The best 1/4 mile I have seen for an 883..15.16 sec at 88.33 MPH (that puts
it right there with a good Honda CB 350 or a Suzuki X6 Hustler). The
slowest W test I have is 14.33 @ 92.34

The W, when compared to the Sportster, is a revver. When you compare it to
a stock 883, you get a lot more performance for your money. The 883 needs
pipes, and a cam, with a little chip manipulation to match a stock W. Not
much after market hi-perf stuff is available for the W, but the W is a
retro, and it is quicker than a 60s Bonneville or Lightning. And the W is
pretty low key, it has a compression ratio of only 8.4 to 1, whereas the
Yamaha XS 650 was 10 to 1. Has anyone shaved the heads on a W to see what
kind of power is available there? Jon, you just did pipes and jets and got
50 HP.

Jon, you probably beat the rider, not the machine, if what you rolled away
from was a 1200 and you did it in 5th gear, but there is no dishonor in
downshifting if the other bike has a 500cc advantage. I have ridden a lot of
Sportsters (883s/1000s/1200s)..none of the rubber mounted engine ones
yet..but I never rode a Sportster as comfortable as the W, or as confidant
at parking lot speeds. And I bet Lucy was much more comfortable on the back
of your W than she would have been on that skinny slab HD provides for a
passenger on the Sportster.



James Franklin
2411 Pine Summit DR. E
Jacksonville, Florida 32211

808-225-0994 (cell)





From: "Jonhaddock@..." <jonhaddock@...>
Reply-To: W650riders@...
To: <W650riders@...>
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 01:56:42 +0100


Well a stock one isn't as quick as a W650 which is about as slow as modern
motorcycles get....which makes the Sporty pretty slow. Certainly my warmed
up W will beat a loud piped 1200 Sporty from 60 to 100 plus....two
up.....And Lucy was on the back when we did it...

A 1200 Sporty is by no means slow. It's about as fast a Harley
platform as there is. /--- In W650riders@..., "Alexander
Ward" <award@...> wrote:

I've been lurking on this list for years, but now I have to chime

in

on this topic.

I think the Sportster is a great partner to the W650. I have both

a

2000 W650 and a 1996 Sportster XL1200S Sport. The Sport has
adjustable Showa forks and dual front discs. If you add rearsets

and

clipons and a decent seat, then it becomes a really fun scoot. '

No, it is not particularly fast, but the wide flat powerband
and more than ample torque combine with decent handling and

braking

to make it easy to ride without requiring a lot of work. If you
switch to 17" wheels and sticky tires it gets even better. Don't
worry about the vibration if you buy an older one with a solid-

mount

engine, just install BalanceMasters active vibration dampers and
fiddle with the final drive ratios (or even switch to chain drive)
and once it is dialed in, then just enjoy it.

Although any Japanese 600 can run rings around it, that is

balanced

out by the double-takes from all of the head-to-toe leather-clad
dumplings on their cool Harleys who are cruising along at 30mph

when

you pass them on the outside of a curve.

You do have to think about it though. One of the classic

disparaging

comments about Harleys is that they vibrate so much that parts

fall

off. It is true, too. the first time I rode the Sporty any
distance, both mirrors, the taillight, and one turn signal fell

off.

I felt like I had finally gained admittance to a long and proud
tradition!

At any rate, keep the W650, get a Sportster too.

Alex

--- In W650riders@..., "Larry Botheras"
<larry.botheras@> wrote:

Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty

will

feel

slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD

never

quote)

but it is a lot heavier



From: W650riders@...

[mailto:W650riders@...] On

Behalf Of John
Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39
To: W650riders@...
Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650



I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the

w.

What

are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200 roadster?

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14/07/2007

15:36

_________________________________________________________________
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----- Original Message -----

From: larry.botheras@...

To: W650riders@...

Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:09 AM

Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650

I'm afraid I am speaking from a position of knowledge...? Second worst bike I ever rode... the worst was an 883

----Original Message----
From: eustisgary@...
Date: 16/07/2007 1:41
To: <W650riders@...>
Subj: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650

Have you actually ridden a 1200 Sporty?--- In
W650riders@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Botheras" ...>
wrote:
>
> Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty will
feel
> slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD never
quote)
> but it is a lot heavier
>
>
>
> From: W650riders@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:W650riders@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of John
> Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39
> To: W650riders@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650
>
>
>
> I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the w.
What
> are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200 roadster?
>

___________________________________________________________

Tiscali Broadband only ?9.99 a month for your first 3 months! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/

----- Original Message -----

From: Tachokay@...

To: W650riders@...

Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 4:01 AM

Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: The new Buell - NWC

Yeah.? The motorcycle ones are pretty nice looking too... ;)

In a message dated 7/15/2007 1:40:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hazel@... writes:

Panthers are GORGEOUS!!!
?

Rrrose.
@>-->--

Don't know. But it does bring to mind something I read today in American
Motorcyclist. You know how some folks say "Loud pipes save
lives", and other folks counter with "No, loud pipes cost rights!"? Guess
who was right? As of June 4th, anybody who lives in or
rides through Denver, Colorado now have a law specific to motorcycles. Any
motorcycle built after 1982 there must have the OEM pipes
on it, or it gets a 500 dollar ticket. If your muffler wears out over time
or is damaged in a crash, you'd be forced to purchase an
exact replacement from the dealership at OEM prices, if they're available
at all. The example they totted up was for a 2004 Kaw Mean
Streak. It'd be $1,331, plus bolts, hangers, etc. For a 1996 Suzuki
Bandit, it'd be $1,206, for a bike that has a resale value under
$2000.
Worst case is a 1983 Honda V45 Interceptor. The parts you can buy would
cost 672 dollars, but two of the headpipes and the left
muffler are discontinued. So that bike would be illegal to ride in Denver,
throw it on the scrap-pile.
Way to go, Denver bikers!

I don't think the general public was impressed with the loud bikes, or
even intimidated.

Jake


----- Original Message -----
From: "John " <schnozejt@...>


Looking for somewhere or a mft I can get some loud/good sound pipes
for my doubleYeah. Also need a jet kit to go along with it and would
like the pipes to look classic.

Thanks,
John
2065959753@...




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15:36

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis J. Guggemos

Jake

Did you join the AMA?

?

Dennis

----- Original Message -----

From: Captain Jake

A new law takes effect in Texas on September 1st requiring all traffic-actuated signals at intersections to recognize motorcycles! WooHOO!

?

Jake

----- Original Message -----

From: James Franklin

To: W650riders@...

Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 8:56 PM

Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650

Triumph Bonneville..477 lbs dry
Harley Davidson Sportster 883...502 lbs dry
Kawasaki W 650...450 lbs dry
Harley Davidson Sportster 1200 Roadster..584 lbs wet (couldn't find dry)

Gas weighs 5.68 lbs per US gallon, oil 2 lbs per quart..shouldn't be
terribly hard to do the math if you knew the capacities..which I don't.

James Franklin

.

A stock 1200 Sportster is doing the 1/4 in 13.02...half a second quicker
than the fastest W 650 I have ever seen a test on. At 100 MPH (the HDs
terminal speed), 1/2 second would be about 75 feet ahead, the W rider
would
know he lost, but the Sportster rider would know he was close.

The 1200 makes 64.4 HP, 20 more than a stock W.

It's stock torque is 72.7 lb-ft at 3700 RPM, which would be around 70

or twice what the W has at that speed in 5th.

A W, not even a 50 HP W, is not much of a roll-on challenge for a 1200
Sportster.

But an 883, which costs (supposedly) closer to the W, really isn't in the
same performance class.

The 883 makes 43.1 HP, about two less than the average W, yet weighs 50
lbs
more.

the 883 makes 43 ft lbs torque at 4550 RPM, the W 37.5 5100 RPM (that is
around 80 MPH for the W)

The best 1/4 mile I have seen for an 883..15.16 sec at 88.33 MPH (that
puts
it right there with a good Honda CB 350 or a Suzuki X6 Hustler). The
slowest W test I have is 14.33 @ 92.34

The W, when compared to the Sportster, is a revver. When you compare it
to
a stock 883, you get a lot more performance for your money. The 883

pipes, and a cam, with a little chip manipulation to match a stock W.

much after market hi-perf stuff is available for the W, but the W is a
retro, and it is quicker than a 60s Bonneville or Lightning. And the W

pretty low key, it has a compression ratio of only 8.4 to 1, whereas the
Yamaha XS 650 was 10 to 1. Has anyone shaved the heads on a W to see

kind of power is available there? Jon, you just did pipes and jets and
got
50 HP.

Jon, you probably beat the rider, not the machine, if what you rolled

from was a 1200 and you did it in 5th gear, but there is no dishonor in
downshifting if the other bike has a 500cc advantage. I have ridden a lot
of
Sportsters (883s/1000s/1200s)..none of the rubber mounted engine ones
yet..but I never rode a Sportster as comfortable as the W, or as

at parking lot speeds. And I bet Lucy was much more comfortable on the
back
of your W than she would have been on that skinny slab HD provides for a
passenger on the Sportster.



James Franklin
2411 Pine Summit DR. E
Jacksonville, Florida 32211

808-225-0994 (cell)





From: "Jonhaddock@..." <jonhaddock@...>
Reply-To: W650riders@...
To: <W650riders@...>
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 01:56:42 +0100


Well a stock one isn't as quick as a W650 which is about as slow as

motorcycles get....which makes the Sporty pretty slow. Certainly my

up W will beat a loud piped 1200 Sporty from 60 to 100 plus....two
up.....And Lucy was on the back when we did it...

A 1200 Sporty is by no means slow. It's about as fast a Harley
platform as there is. /--- In W650riders@..., "Alexander
Ward" <award@...> wrote:

I've been lurking on this list for years, but now I have to chime

in

on this topic.

I think the Sportster is a great partner to the W650. I have both

a

2000 W650 and a 1996 Sportster XL1200S Sport. The Sport has
adjustable Showa forks and dual front discs. If you add rearsets

and

clipons and a decent seat, then it becomes a really fun scoot. '

No, it is not particularly fast, but the wide flat powerband
and more than ample torque combine with decent handling and

braking

to make it easy to ride without requiring a lot of work. If you
switch to 17" wheels and sticky tires it gets even better. Don't
worry about the vibration if you buy an older one with a solid-

mount

engine, just install BalanceMasters active vibration dampers and
fiddle with the final drive ratios (or even switch to chain drive)
and once it is dialed in, then just enjoy it.

Although any Japanese 600 can run rings around it, that is

balanced

out by the double-takes from all of the head-to-toe leather-clad
dumplings on their cool Harleys who are cruising along at 30mph

when

you pass them on the outside of a curve.

You do have to think about it though. One of the classic

disparaging

comments about Harleys is that they vibrate so much that parts

fall

off. It is true, too. the first time I rode the Sporty any
distance, both mirrors, the taillight, and one turn signal fell

off.

I felt like I had finally gained admittance to a long and proud
tradition!

At any rate, keep the W650, get a Sportster too.

Alex

--- In W650riders@..., "Larry Botheras"
<larry.botheras@> wrote:

Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty

will

feel

slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD

never

quote)

but it is a lot heavier



From: W650riders@...

[mailto:W650riders@...] On

Behalf Of John
Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39
To: W650riders@...
Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650



I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the

w.

What

are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200 roadster?

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delivery.

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delivery.
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--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.6/900 - Release Date:

14/07/2007

15:36

_________________________________________________________________
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