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I'll have another go at armours....I'm fairly sure the problem lies with the coating they put on under the chrome....

Jon, since there seems to be a fare amount of people looking to purchase more fishpipes have you thought of building a few un-chromed sets and we the buyers chrome them when we receive them?? Just an idea…

?

Ben ?

?

---

From: W650riders@... [mailto:W650riders@...] On Behalf Of Jonhaddock@...
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 9:33 AM
To: W650riders@...
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Exhausts & retro noise

?

That might work if the mufflers were the only silencing part, but that huge
tray underneath is part of the silencing. Also, the note of the exhaust is
derived from the shape ( and thickness of steel) in the burgess pipes and
the stock mufflers don't work in the same way. The engine note gets louder,
but in a kind of 'knackered honda twin with cheap magaphones on' kind of
way.

> An old Triumph expert suggested that I should just sharpen a piece of
> narrow
> rebar, and hammer it through the stock exhaust/baffles bit by bit until
> the
> sound deepened. Anyone tried this? My Canadian exhaust is one of those
> from which the stock baffles cannot be removed (as per the California
> exhaust diagram in Files). The baffles start well inside the exhaust.
>
> Ruari
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Campbell" <scrubby64@gmail.com>
> To: <W650riders@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 8:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Exhausts & retro noise
>
>
>> Mmm, sounds like a lot of work, I take it you have looked at the W650.de
>> shop?
>>
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "ksufanatic342" <ksufanatic@cox.net>
>> To: <W650riders@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 3:23 PM
>> Subject: [W650riders] Re: Exhausts & retro noise
>>
>>
>>>I got a reply from MikesXS. They said the originals were very loud,
>>> essential straight throughs. So they had a chamber created inside the
>>> muffler to redirect the air and quiet them. SOOOO looks like, unless
>>> that chamber can be removed, these are not going to be the sound you
>>> are looking for.
>>>
>>> I was looking at my stock exahaust and was curious. Could a welder cut
>>> the cross over off. Weld plates inplace of the crossover holes, and
>>> then remove some of the baffeling from the stock?
>>>
>>> I know it would be a lot of effort. I will find out in the next few
>>> days if it can be done and how much. (IE have a friend who does this.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In W650riders@yahoogroups.com, "Jonhaddock@..." ...>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Go to temporary photos site - ::
>> Send an email to W650riders-nomail@yahoogroups.com to stop email
>> delivery.
>> ::
>> Send an email to W650riders-normal@yahoogroups.com to resume email
>> delivery.
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Go to temporary photos site - ::
> Send an email to W650riders-nomail@yahoogroups.com to stop email delivery.
> ::
> Send an email to W650riders-normal@yahoogroups.com to resume email
> delivery.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/883 - Release Date: 01/07/2007
> 12:19
>

---

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/883 - Release Date: 01/07/2007 12:19

开云体育

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Serow???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? XR250

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That might work if the mufflers were the only silencing part, but that huge tray underneath is part of the silencing. Also, the note of the exhaust is derived from the shape ( and thickness of steel) in the burgess pipes and the stock mufflers don't work in the same way. The engine note gets louder, but in a kind of 'knackered honda twin with cheap magaphones on' kind of way.

The bike runs very lean as standard at around 3000rpm. Good acceleration from these revs depends on twisting the throttle a bit because there is an accelerator pump which adds the correct amount of 'extra' raw fuel to get the mix correct. Very gentle acceleration may not deliver enough fuel so the bike stays lean. If your bike has done many gentle miles it might be that the plugs are a little tired and are not providing quite the spark they used to. Couple that with a lean mix and you might get a momentary mis-fire as you feed the extra air into the motor.

Fit some new iridium plugs and your problem will almost certainly go away forever. Fit some ordinary plugs and your problem should go away for several thousand miles...

Jon

An old Triumph expert suggested that I should just sharpen a piece of narrow rebar, and hammer it through the stock exhaust/baffles bit by bit until the sound deepened. Anyone tried this? My Canadian exhaust is one of those from which the stock baffles cannot be removed (as per the California exhaust diagram in Files). The baffles start well inside the exhaust.

Ruari

What revs?

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Hm....All Yamaha trail bikes are called XT's. The slightly more hard-core versions of their trail bikes are called TT's, but we rarely saw them..

?

The Serow is an XT and is a lowish 'old school'...i.e. similar to a late '70's trail bike. The XR is a fairly tall relatively modern Enduro bike, built to withstand competition.

The XR is a much more dynamic machine. While not stupidly quick with around 28 bhp, it has significantly more get-up and go than the 20 bhp Serow and so can tackle long journeys easily and in comfort. The Serow would be struggling. If you are short of leg, the XT225 Serow would be the better 'round town' bike, but the XR would be a better 'do anything' bike, especially as it can cruise at 70 plus.

One more question, so the honda xr is v similar to the yamah xt, just another bike to look at? Have i got that right?

Laura

On 02/07/07, Jonhaddock@... <jonhaddock@...> wrote:

Don't worry Laura. , Daniel's confusion may arise from the fact that very few proper competition bikes can be used on the road In the States. Most trail type bikes over there are very road oriented.

Over here, you can buy almost any machine?and put it on the road and all enduro and trials machines can have number plates. The reason?the Honda XR's are so good is that they are built for full-on competition and so are incredibly well made. There are no compromises to mass production at the expense of strength or reliability but being Honda they are utterly civilised as well and have fairly normal service intervals.?

?

To put that into perspective,?my Husqvarna four stroke TE350 that I used on the road had no oil pump, relying instead on crankcase pressure to move the oil around, HAD to run on Mobil 1 15/50 and was meant to have the engine side cases stripped off every 5 hours of use to replace the oil gallery reed valves.??The Honda is just like a typical 250cc Jap commuter..Oil changes every thousand miles, oil the chain occasionally...normal stuff!

?

?

----- Original Message -----

From: Laura

To: W650riders@...

Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 9:19 AM

Subject: Re: [W650riders] :WAS goodwood breakfast club NOW MBS STRIKES AGAIN

Gets v confusing, yes commuting, urban riding for which I understand it's v good. I''m just thinking about it not rushing to the shop tomorrwo.

Laura

On 02/07/07, daniel finn <finnman@...> wrote:

That's why I don't live in the UK, no NX's. I'd forgotten the reason. SORRY Laura I was certain that you wanted to street ride too. We don't have a KING JON in the colonies to save us from outsiders opinions,knowledge and riding experience. I beg your forgiveness OH god of all things bike, but we're not coming back to the motherland. Get an NX you'll love it. He can't kill all of us.

----- Original Message -----

From: Jonhaddock@...

To: W650riders@...

Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 3:10 PM

Subject: Re: [W650riders] :WAS goodwood breakfast club NOW MBS STRIKES AGAIN

?

Hmm...Those weren't based on the XR though...they're water-cooled for starters...Not available in the UK and not many grey imports brought in because they weren't as good as an XR at fast stuff and weren't as good as a Serow at nadgery trails . Quite heavy too...

Laura: The best of all those 250's was the Honda NX 250 from '88,'89 and very cool with it's mini fairing. Here's a pic of my NX 650, they looked alike.?Used they're reasonably priced. Daniel

----- Original Message -----

From: Laura

To: W650riders@...

Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 12:22 PM

Subject: Re: [W650riders] :WAS goodwood breakfast club NOW MBS STRIKES AGAIN

Hm if I would be interested in such a yamaha xt225 (or 250) what would be I be looking at moneywise? I understand it would be good for town/commuting. I do fancy one of those, riding position seems comfortable. But you know I go through phases so please don't take it that I will go and buy one tomorrow, I'm likely to change my mind again as women do!! Haven't even sat one. Are they easy to get hold of?

Laura

On 01/07/07, James Franklin <jimw650@... > wrote:

Laura, Honda CRs are two strokes and they are high performance racable..the
XRs and the XLs are 4 strokes.

The Suzuki DR 200, the Yamaha XT 225 (Serrow), and the Kawasaki Sherpa 250
are all electric start 4 strokes with seat heights at 30 inches or less
unladen.



James Franklin
2411 Pine Summit DR. E
Jacksonville, Florida 32211

808-225-0994 (cell)





>From: Laura <laurauk.rider@... >
>Reply-To: W650riders@...
>To: W650riders@...
>Subject: Re: [W650riders] :WAS goodwood breakfast club NOW MBS STRIKES
>AGAIN
>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 23:15:59 +0100
>
>OK. So that's a 2-stroke noisy bike then. Quite like the idea. Are they
>cheap could I have them as second bike?
>KTMs look cool, definitely too high. A friend just had to have his food
>reshaped as he came off doing a wheelie at 70 (we think).
>Laura
>
>
>On 30/06/07, Jonhaddock@... < jonhaddock@...> wrote:
>>
>>??Yes, they ARE high, some higher than others, but the Honda XR 250's are
>>OK. I find I can manage those??well with my 27" inside leg, but I can't
>>ride
>>the KTM's for instance.
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>*From:* Laura <laurauk.rider@...>
>>*To:* W650riders@...
>>*Sent:* Saturday, June 30, 2007 10:03 PM
>>*Subject:* Re: [W650riders] :WAS goodwood breakfast club NOW MBS STRIKES
>>AGAIN
>>
>>I've sort of been interested in them as they look comfy (riding position),
>>well the ones I saw but don't know what they were. But they are mostly
>>high
>>aren't they. Thanks for that long explanation really helpful.
>>
>>Laura
>>
>>
>>On 30/06/07, Jonhaddock@... < jonhaddock@...
>>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > That is modern trials...The bikes are 250cc or 300cc two stroke
>>singles,
>> >
>> > tuned for instant wheelies with loads of bottom end grunt. They are
>>very
>> > low
>> > geared and have absolutely NO seat...just a painted black area
>> > approximately
>> > where the seat would have been.
>> >
>> > Other off-road sports are:
>> >
>> > Motocross where the bikes are tuned for power and like trials, have no
>> > lights and are not road legal. MX bikes actually handle really well but
>> > are
>> > stupidly tall to give them masses of suspension travel...expect seat
>> > heights
>> > in excess of 960mm. Proper Supermotos are basically Motocross bikes
>>with
>> > road front wheels on.
>> >
>> > Enduro...Where the bikes are very similar to motocross but are more
>> > softly
>> > tuned with gear ratios more suitable to road use, and have lighting
>> > sets.
>> > These bikes are usually road legal in the UK and make literally
>>stunning
>> > commuters. In all seriousness, you would have to try very hard indeed
>>to
>> > find a better bike than a late model Honda XR250 for general urban
>> > duties.
>> > They weigh...brace yourself...230 lbs....under half your Harley...and
>>30
>> > bhp
>> > in a bike that light makes for serious performance. My old Yamaha 465
>> > with
>> > 42 bhp would shut down any musclebike under the sun up to 60 mph. A lot
>> > of
>> > Enduro bikes were bought as 'greenlaners'. Green lanes are Roads...i.e.
>> > 'Rights of way open to all traffic' which were not tarmac. In other
>> > words,
>> > forgotten about or not used. Because they were roads, bikes still had
>>to
>> > be
>> > fully road legal and obey national speed limits. They are often just
>> > muddy
>> > tracks across moors and rivers and to be honest, full-on Enduro bikes
>> > are
>> > not designed for such tricky and challenging narrow paths....But being
>> > macho
>> > men we used 'em anyway!
>> >
>> > Trail. These bikes are less extreme and less robust. They have less
>> > suspension travel, less power and are often more civilised. You used to
>> > find
>> > some in every makers range but today in the UK, only grey imports are
>> > found.
>> > They were popular amongst older trail riders ( the ones who knew what
>> > they
>> > were doing). James has mentioned the Yam Serow, the Kawasaki Sherpa and
>> > so
>> > on, but older bikes like the XT250 were very good and frankly, the
>>XR250
>> >
>> > Honda is so good and usable it'll cross into both camps.
>> >
>> > All off-road bikes are brilliant fun, combining punchy motors with
>> > incredibly light weight. Both motocross and Enduro bikes have to have
>> > superb
>> > handling stability because they are built to win races on bumpy rough
>> > ground
>> > and as a consequence, round town or the lanes, a motocross or enduro
>> > bike
>> > with road oriented tyres on usually blows 'proper' road bikes into the
>> > weeds.
>> >
>> > They are incredibly comfy too...really soft seats and amazingly good
>> > suspension make for a real armchair riding position.
>> >
>> > Very high credibility too......
>> >
>> > Jon
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > From: Laura
>> > >>Trials? Is that motocross? exciting. I like the idea of riding
>> > >>in the woods, think it's called greenlaning. Liked riding on
>> > >>the grass at the rally next weekend.
>> > >
>> > > Laura, here's some trials riding:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Go to temporary photos site - ::
>> > > Send an email to W650riders-nomail@... to stop email
>> > delivery.
>> > > ::
>> > > Send an email to W650riders-normal@... to resume email
>> > > delivery.
>> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/880 - Release Date:
>> > 29/06/2007
>> > > 14:15
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Go to temporary photos site - ::
>> > Send an email to W650riders-nomail@... to stop email
>> > delivery. ::
>> > Send an email to W650riders-normal@... to resume email
>> > delivery.
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>??------------------------------
>>
>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/880 - Release Date: 29/06/2007
>>14:15
>>
>>
>>

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Seems to be under gentle acceleration. Does not happen often, it's abit
like the engine 'snatching' slightly.

--- In W650riders@..., "Jonhaddock@..." <jonhaddock@...>
wrote:

When does it cough...


< Momentary cough: sometimes, the engine gives a 'cough'. It always
recovers instantly and then won't happen again for the rest of the

ride.>

Yes, but there aren't many companies making repro systems for the classic bike market...Think about it.

He he...been there. There is a trick you can use though. If the bike is pointing uphill...and they usually are when they sop...turn it around, point it downhill, pull in the decompresser lever, stick it in gear, and let it roll. After about ten engine revolutions just let the compressor lever go and lo and behold, it'll be running....

This doesn't work on XR400's because they have an automatic decompresser linked to the kick-start...which is why they DO need to be electric start.

Truth is, a good two stroke is streets ahead..lighter, quicker, easier to prod back into life...Kawasaki KDX200...best of all of them!

Jon

get a bike, unless it is an old 2 stroke, with electric start (the

Mmm, sounds like a lot of work, I take it you have looked at the W650.de shop?


Mark,

I got a reply from MikesXS. They said the originals were very loud,
essential straight throughs. So they had a chamber created inside the
muffler to redirect the air and quiet them. SOOOO looks like, unless
that chamber can be removed, these are not going to be the sound you
are looking for.

I was looking at my stock exahaust and was curious. Could a welder cut
the cross over off. Weld plates inplace of the crossover holes, and
then remove some of the baffeling from the stock?

I know it would be a lot of effort. I will find out in the next few
days if it can be done and how much. (IE have a friend who does this.)




--- In W650riders@..., "Jonhaddock@..." <jonhaddock@...>
wrote:

I've just sent you a very short video clip in AVI which has been

trimmed in

Windows Movie Maker. I'll send another short clip direct from the

camera.

They are both well over 2 mgb or I would have sent longer ones but you
should be able to snatch an idea of quality. Unfortunately these

cameras use

'conditional refresh' compression algorithms so the worse images

come from

moving ...either the camera or the subject as the camera does little

work if

the image changes but a small amount.

Let me know if you don't get it...should be within 5 minutes of you
receiving this one

Surely Armours can't be the only option; if you posted on the Real
Classic forum I am sure you would turn up others that could make them.
Thing is I would only want the whole exhausts, as I am loath to cut
the down pipes thus losing the stock pipes, especially if the
powers-to-be ever decide that only stock pipes can be used for

MOT's etc.

--- In W650riders@..., "Jonhaddock@" <jonhaddock@>
wrote:

I've spoken to another guy who confirmed that Armours are not the

company they used to be. Frankly, I couldn't in all seriousness sell
them to you guys....

Jon


Yes, but, sadly, I was too late on the bandwagon! Did you ever

get a chance to talk to Armours about the possibility of slip-on
Fishpipes, Jon?

Ruari
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonhaddock@
To: W650riders@...
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Exhausts & retro noise



They lok and sound like the Fishpipes to me!...Sorry!


OK, folks, THIS is the SOUND I want!!! Where do we get them?





And are they slip-ons?

Ruari

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/880 - Release

Date: 29/06/2007 14:15

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delivery.

::
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12:19

Absolutely correct....



Not so sure that is true larry.

I am sure that I saw in one of the bike mags recently that a company
was looking to develop a 2 stroke that was a midweight. The emission
laws effectively made them illegal rather than the premise of a
2-stroke being illegal in itself.


Larry

Essex UK

W650 wrench....
'07 Moto Guzzi Norge 1200 GT
'77 KH 400
'78 CD 175
'94 Ural 650 Solo





___________________________________________________________

Tiscali Broadband only ?9.99 a month for your first 3 months!

Got them, replied via normal email.

--- In W650riders@..., "Jonhaddock@..." <jonhaddock@...>
wrote:

I've just sent you a very short video clip in AVI which has been

trimmed in

Windows Movie Maker. I'll send another short clip direct from the

camera.

They are both well over 2 mgb or I would have sent longer ones but you
should be able to snatch an idea of quality. Unfortunately these

cameras use

'conditional refresh' compression algorithms so the worse images

come from

moving ...either the camera or the subject as the camera does little

work if

the image changes but a small amount.

Let me know if you don't get it...should be within 5 minutes of you
receiving this one

Surely Armours can't be the only option; if you posted on the Real
Classic forum I am sure you would turn up others that could make them.
Thing is I would only want the whole exhausts, as I am loath to cut
the down pipes thus losing the stock pipes, especially if the
powers-to-be ever decide that only stock pipes can be used for

MOT's etc.

--- In W650riders@..., "Jonhaddock@" <jonhaddock@>
wrote:

I've spoken to another guy who confirmed that Armours are not the

company they used to be. Frankly, I couldn't in all seriousness sell
them to you guys....

Jon


Yes, but, sadly, I was too late on the bandwagon! Did you ever

get a chance to talk to Armours about the possibility of slip-on
Fishpipes, Jon?

Ruari
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonhaddock@
To: W650riders@...
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Exhausts & retro noise



They lok and sound like the Fishpipes to me!...Sorry!


OK, folks, THIS is the SOUND I want!!! Where do we get them?





And are they slip-ons?

Ruari

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/880 - Release

Date: 29/06/2007 14:15

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/880 - Release Date:

29/06/2007 14:15

Go to temporary photos site - ::
Send an email to W650riders-nomail@... to stop email

delivery.

::
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delivery.
Yahoo! Groups Links





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12:19

Still doesn't mean that they are the only option though, just means yo
uahven't found another.

--- In W650riders@..., "Jonhaddock@..." <jonhaddock@...>
wrote:

I looked at one or two others and at that time, Armours were unique

in that

their stuff was designed for use rather than show....Thicker metal,

stronger

internals..etc etc

Jon

HAze


Not sure you would know but how easy is it to register an old BSA
trial bike, that up to now as been used only off-road?