Played a fun June 41 IABSM game in 6mm on Sunday. ?This game is part of the major tank battle around Verba and Dubno.? This action is on June 29th, 1941.? Parts of the 16th Pz Div's II Abt, 2 Pz Rgt and of II Abt 64 Schutzen Rgt are heading west and northwest to encircle the Soviet 34th Tank Div.
Soviets are dug in on a slope expecting some armor reinforcements in the form of T34 model 40s and KV1s.? Lots of panzers moving across the table and Russian green tank crews getting flummoxed.
Link to flickr set with AAR:
Mark
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Re: Artscow cards on ebay
Thanks for the heads up Kevin,
Extremely tempting!
Cheers,
Pete
On 17/02/2020 15:55, kevinjnivek via
Groups.Io wrote:
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Hi,?
I have put several packs of cards I ordered from Artscow on ebay.
They have only been used a couple of times so are almost as good
as new. They are for the games Bag the Hun, Through the Mud and
blood, Kiss me Hardy and Le Feu Sacre. If interested there are
pictures of the cards in the listing.?
Kevin
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Hi,?
I have put several packs of cards I ordered from Artscow on ebay. They have only been used a couple of times so are almost as good as new. They are for the games Bag the Hun, Through the Mud and blood, Kiss me Hardy and Le Feu Sacre. If interested there are pictures of the cards in the listing.?
Kevin
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Simon and I have started the campaign and are at turn 4. The River Our is bridged and Simon has heavy supports available for his Volksgrenadier Platoons.
My question concerns where his tanks and other vehicles can appear. The campaign notes point out the bogging risk in wooded area. In which case, is it possible for his armour to use the dark blue infiltration routes through wooded slopes or does it have to come up the main road??
I've done a fair amount of reading and can't find any clues as to from which direction the german tanks appeared at tables 2/3. It is clear that they had to fight through Consthum and I guess they could have used the track south of the Schilindberbach.
Any ideas chums?
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Re: Infantry in half tracks, MG use
One of the reasons the M3 halftracks didn't carry the infantry in was they were not bullet proof - rifles at close-ish ranges could penetrate them on the sides , so being in one could be an unpleasant experience.
peter On Monday, 10 February 2020, 02:33:29 GMT, Michael Reese <mrtank688@...> wrote:
My sources indicate the 251/1 (and 250/1) half-track had a two man crew.? The driver and the radio operator/MG gunner.? Both of these also had a MP40 in a rack next to them.? The radio operator could man the MG behind the gun shield when the infantry squad disembarked.
The squad was 9-10 men consisting of two LMG teams with either MG34 or later MG42 LMG plus two MP40 and 5-6 98k rifles.? Very late war the 98k might be replaced with StgG 44 Assault rifles.
This meant the vehicle had three LMG in it.? (2 in the 250/1) One on a mount with gun shield (a MMG) and two loose belonging to the squad.? One could be mounted on the AA MG mount on the rear of the vehicle.? If not mounted then the squad had a LMG and MP40 to use on each side of the vehicle.? If the enemy either didn't have effective AT weapons or these were being suppressed the the squad would stay on the vehicle 100-150 meters behind the tanks (or assault guns) and support them with fire from the three MG on the vehicle.? If there was a need to dismount, such as they had over-run a trench that needed clearing or needed to move into a built-up area to protect the tanks then the squad would dismount, taking their two LMG with them.? The vehicle radio operator would then man the MMG on the 251/250 to support the dismounted infantry.? The 250/1 was used the same except it carried a LMG team so the dismount was 4-5 men with one LMG.? The MMG would still be manned by the radio operator/gunner.?
The MMG had the stable mount but used the ammunition drumsnot the loose belt from an ammunition box.
US doctrine was to NOT use the M3 or M3A1 except as a battle taxi to drop the infantry off which would then go forward on foot.? Having a larger 12 man squad meant one of the squad members was indeed the driver and if the vehicle machinegun was to be used after the squad dismounted a squad member would have to be left behind to man it or the driver would have to.? US LMG and HMG on the M3/M3A1 half-tracks did not have the steady mount the German tracks had but did use a belt feed from an ammo box attached to the mount.? Two exceptions to this.? One was if there was little opposition at all then the infantry might stay in the half-track and fight from it.? The second was in 44-45 the infantry would ride on the back of a tank rather than in their half-track as the terrain didn't allow movement by the half-tracks.? Too much mud.
Sources:? Osprey books The SdKfz 251 HALF-TRACK Vanguard 32 US HALF-TRACKS of WORLD WAR II Vanguard 31 World War II US Armored Infantry Tactics Elite 176
Thus I would change the recommendation for German Panzergrenadier (gp) squads to: The front mounted MG with shield counts as a Medium MG and can be fired with 2 - 3 actions depending on the quality of the squad (one less than the Squad's quality would allow). You lose an action for each action used by the half-track. At the same time you can fire to the side from within the vehicle with LMG, either 2 LMG on one side or one LMG on each side using the normal number of actions for the squad.
a) the rear mount is for anti-aircraft fire and is ignored for engaging ground targets. It’s the squad’s own Light Support Weapon and will be taken with it when it dismounts. If it is used then you have one less LMG to fire over the side of the half-track.
b) As above, one LMG can engage the enemy to either side.? In addition 4 rifles can engage to the other side.? (2 men on the MMG, 2 men on each LMG = 6 men leaving 4 to fire rifles)
2) You can dismount with all of the Squad leaving the vehicle crew behind to drive the half track and/or fire the front MG in support. It takes 1 man to fully man the MG and 1 to drive but the MMG rate of fire drops to 2 regardless of the number of actions the vehicle has (unless less than 2).? The squad needs to remain within 18” of its 251.
It counts an action to debuss and you can use remaining actions to spot, move or fire (2.3.3).
Next turn the squad has its full actions.
3) yes the whole squad can debuss. They will then act as a normal German panzergrenadier squad with two LMG, 2 MP40, and 4 98k rifles.
NOTE that trucked German Panzergrenadier have two LMG, 2 MP40, and 4 98k rifles so if firing from an open vehicle they fire two LMG.? Dismounted they are the same as the armored panzergrenadier squad without the 251/1 support.
Panzergrenadier (gp) in 251 SPW in 1943-45 made up one battalion of a Panzer or Panzergrenadier Division Panzergrenadiers.? Panzer divisions had two PGR with 2 PG battalions each, only one of which had 251 SPW.? That is 1 armored and three trucked battalions. PGD had two PGR each with 3 PG Battalions.? Here the ratio was 1 armored to 5 trucked.? SS PGD and Panzer Divisions had two PGR each 3 PG battalions.? Again a 1 armored to 5 trucked battalions.? PD and PGD as well as SS PGD/PD had an added PG Battalion in the Reconnaissance Battalion which had two SPW companies, usually one in 250/1 and one in 251/1 SPW.? It also had an armored Heavy Company with six 251/9 and either six 251/2 or 4 251/4 towing 4 12cm mortar plus 3 251/4 towing 3 Pak 40.? There was another armored PG company in the Pioneer Battalion with 251/7 in two platoons, and 251/1 with "Stuka am Fuss" rocket launchers.
Gross Deutchland and Panzer Lehr Divisions had all of their PG battalions in SPW (in 1944).
KG would normally be made up of the Panzer Regiment, the PG armored battalion, the SP Artillery BN, the armored Pioneer BN and elements from the Reconnaissance Bn and Flak Battalion.? The unarmored PG Battalions and the Panzerjager BN with the towed artillery, trucked Pioneers, Flak Battalion (-) and Reconnaissance Battalion (-) would be used as a semi-mobile blocking force around which the armored elements would operate.? SS PGD and PD had an advantage here as they usually had a separate StuG III/G battalion of 30 guns as well.
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Re: Infantry in half tracks, MG use
My sources indicate the 251/1 (and 250/1) half-track had a two man crew.? The driver and the radio operator/MG gunner.? Both of these also had a MP40 in a rack next to them.? The radio operator could man the MG behind the gun shield when the infantry squad disembarked.
The squad was 9-10 men consisting of two LMG teams with either MG34 or later MG42 LMG plus two MP40 and 5-6 98k rifles.? Very late war the 98k might be replaced with StgG 44 Assault rifles.
This meant the vehicle had three LMG in it.? (2 in the 250/1) One on a mount with gun shield (a MMG) and two loose belonging to the squad.? One could be mounted on the AA MG mount on the rear of the vehicle.? If not mounted then the squad had a LMG and MP40 to use on each side of the vehicle.? If the enemy either didn't have effective AT weapons or these were being suppressed the the squad would stay on the vehicle 100-150 meters behind the tanks (or assault guns) and support them with fire from the three MG on the vehicle.? If there was a need to dismount, such as they had over-run a trench that needed clearing or needed to move into a built-up area to protect the tanks then the squad would dismount, taking their two LMG with them.? The vehicle radio operator would then man the MMG on the 251/250 to support the dismounted infantry.? The 250/1 was used the same except it carried a LMG team so the dismount was 4-5 men with one LMG.? The MMG would still be manned by the radio operator/gunner.?
The MMG had the stable mount but used the ammunition
drums
not the loose belt from an ammunition box.
US doctrine was to NOT use the M3 or M3A1 except as a battle taxi to drop the infantry off which would then go forward on foot.? Having a larger 12 man squad meant one of the squad members was indeed the driver and if the vehicle machinegun was to be used after the squad dismounted a squad member would have to be left behind to man it or the driver would have to.? US LMG and HMG on the M3/M3A1 half-tracks did not have the steady mount the German tracks had but did use a belt feed from an ammo box attached to the mount.? Two exceptions to this.? One was if there was little opposition at all then the infantry might stay in the half-track and fight from it.? The second was in 44-45 the infantry would ride on the back of a tank rather than in their half-track as the terrain didn't allow movement by the half-tracks.? Too much mud.
Sources:? Osprey books The SdKfz 251 HALF-TRACK Vanguard 32 US HALF-TRACKS of WORLD WAR II Vanguard 31 World War II US Armored Infantry Tactics Elite 176
Thus I would change the recommendation for German Panzergrenadier (gp) squads to:
The
front mounted MG with shield counts as a Medium MG and can be fired
with 2 - 3 actions depending on the quality of the squad (one less than the Squad's quality would allow). You lose an action for each action used by the
half-track. At the same time you can fire to the side from within the
vehicle with LMG, either 2 LMG on one side or one LMG on each side using the normal number of actions for the squad.
a)
the rear mount is for anti-aircraft fire and is ignored for engaging
ground targets. It’s the squad’s own Light Support Weapon and will be
taken with it when it dismounts. If it is used then you have one less LMG to fire over the side of the half-track.
b) As above, one LMG can engage the enemy to either side.? In addition 4 rifles can engage to the other side.? (2 men on the MMG, 2 men on each LMG = 6 men leaving 4 to fire rifles)
2)
You can dismount with all of the Squad leaving the vehicle crew behind to drive the
half track and/or fire the front MG in support. It takes 1 man to fully
man the MG and 1 to drive but the MMG rate of fire drops to 2 regardless of the number of actions the vehicle has (unless less than 2).? The squad needs to remain within 18”
of its 251.
It counts an action to debuss and you can use remaining actions to spot, move or fire (2.3.3).
Next turn the squad has its full actions.
3) yes the whole squad can debuss. They will then act as a normal German panzergrenadier squad with two LMG, 2 MP40, and 4 98k rifles.
NOTE that trucked German Panzergrenadier have two LMG, 2 MP40, and 4 98k rifles so if firing from an open vehicle they fire two LMG.? Dismounted they are the same as the armored panzergrenadier squad without the 251/1 support.
Panzergrenadier (gp) in 251 SPW in 1943-45 made up one battalion of a Panzer or Panzergrenadier Division Panzergrenadiers.? Panzer divisions had two PGR with 2 PG battalions each, only one of which had 251 SPW.? That is 1 armored and three trucked battalions. PGD had two PGR each with 3 PG Battalions.? Here the ratio was 1 armored to 5 trucked.? SS PGD and Panzer Divisions had two PGR each 3 PG battalions.? Again a 1 armored to 5 trucked battalions.? PD and PGD as well as SS PGD/PD had an added PG Battalion in the Reconnaissance Battalion which had two SPW companies, usually one in 250/1 and one in 251/1 SPW.? It also had an armored Heavy Company with six 251/9 and either six 251/2 or 4 251/4 towing 4 12cm mortar plus 3 251/4 towing 3 Pak 40.? There was another armored PG company in the Pioneer Battalion with 251/7 in two platoons, and 251/1 with "Stuka am Fuss" rocket launchers.
Gross Deutchland and Panzer Lehr Divisions had all of their PG battalions in SPW (in 1944).
KG would normally be made up of the Panzer Regiment, the PG armored battalion, the SP Artillery BN, the armored Pioneer BN and elements from the Reconnaissance Bn and Flak Battalion.? The unarmored PG Battalions and the Panzerjager BN with the towed artillery, trucked Pioneers, Flak Battalion (-) and Reconnaissance Battalion (-) would be used as a semi-mobile blocking force around which the armored elements would operate.? SS PGD and PD had an advantage here as they usually had a separate StuG III/G battalion of 30 guns as well.
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This is related to a subject raised on the forum (which I've failed to gain access to) so hope this can be relayed/copied.
I use clear bases for my pulp figures. They are discs (~.040" thick) punched/cut out of a file folder made from a soft plastic.
Issues raised on forum:
Shine - the plastic stock is embossed with a slight texture, so appears flat.
Small glue surface of figure - I drill/insert a small (.032") brass pin into one of the fig's feet to combat the poor sheer strength of the super glue used to attach.
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Re: Infantry in half tracks, MG use
John Ewing notes that:??, remember to credit them to Robert Avery since I’ve just paraphrased the approach he recommends in Bashnya or Bust.
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Re: Infantry in half tracks, MG use
Here is the response I got from John Ewing on the IABSM Facebook page:
You have to keep in mind that the 252/1 is an armoured transport, a battle taxi, not an Infantry Fighting Vehicle in the modern sense. Most Panzergrenadiers used it to get were they needed to be then dismounted to go into action. On the open spaces of the Eastern Front in the early War it could be used as part of a mobile attack on already suppressed enemy positions, but by late War and in the West with lots of infantry AT weapons about it would rapidly turn into a steel coffin if you tried to fight mounted.
The squad has to provide men to both drive the vehicle and man any MGs on board so if the whole squad dismounts the 251 will remain stationary and cannot fire. You can of course choose to dismount with fewer men.
To answer your specific questions,
The front mounted MG with shield counts as a Medium MG and can be fired with 3 or 4 actions if stationary depending on the quality of the squad, usually 4 for Veterans. You lose an action for each action used by the half-track. Up to 4 riflemen can fire to the side from within the vehicle.
a) the rear mount is for anti-aircraft fire and is ignored for engaging ground targets. It’s the squad’s own Light Support Weapon and will be taken with it when it dismounts.
b) As above, 4 rifles can engage the enemy to the side.
2) You can dismount with part of the Squad leaving men behind to drive the half track and/or fire the front MG in support. It takes 2 men to fully man the MG and 1 to drive so you can dismount a 5 man squad with its LSW and still operate the 251/1 but the squad needs to remain within 18” of its 251.
It counts an action to debuss and you can use remaining actions to spot, move or fire (2.3.3).
Next turn the squad has its full actions.
3) yes the whole squad can debuss and leave the halftrack behind. They will then act as a normal infantry squad.
I recommend buying Byazma or Bust, and anything else written by?, they are always good value and you could adapt the ideas to other theatres.
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Re: Mystery Solved - Found Large Naked Cyclops between Ypres and Antwerp..
Perfectly ordinary, I'm not sure what the mystery is here.
Haven't you got a giant naked cyclops at work?
On 07/02/2020 12:59, Jeff Rixon wrote:
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Mysterious large naked cyclops mentioned in podcasts is beside road near Waregem
on the E17. If you type the bold letters into your search
engine you can find a picture. He is indeed a cyclops Rich
and Nick. Although cannot find why he exists but he is the
second, first was vandalised. He is standing outside a
building selling Used Equipment??????
?
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Mystery Solved - Found Large Naked Cyclops between Ypres and Antwerp..
Mysterious large naked cyclops mentioned in podcasts is beside road near Waregem on the E17. If you type the bold letters into your search engine you can find a picture. He is indeed a cyclops Rich and Nick. Although cannot find why he exists but he is the second, first was vandalised. He is standing outside a building selling Used Equipment???????
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Infantry in half tracks, MG use
Getting ready to play one of the two Battle of the Bulge Scenarios from the 2005 Summer or Xmas Special.
Both scenarios are heavy with German PzGrenadiers in Sdkfz 251/1.? ?What's the best way to handle squads in halftracks especially the two MG42s, one in front and the one in the back with the swinging mount?
1) If 8-man squad is in the halftrack and it does not move:
-how many firing actions does the squad as a whole get and in what direction.
looking at Section 7.2, the front mounted MG counts as Tripod mounted so that's a 3D6
a) does the rear MG on the swinging mount only gets to fire roughly in a 180 arc from rear of vehicle (photos of how it mounts seem to support that?
b) if both MGs fire, in appropriate directions, can the other 4-rifleman fire at anything
2) Can one MG team stay in the halftrack and part of the squad get out of the halftrack?
If so, the 6 men out of the halftrack....how many firing actions do they get for example if they dismounted the previous turn.
3) I assume being a PzGren squad, they can elect to debuss from the HT altogether and move around with the usual actions and if they don't move, fire with 4D6, correct?
Thanks in advance -Dan
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On Feb 4, 2020, at 6:47 PM, don.avis via Groups.Io <don.avis@...> wrote:
?Spoke to Rich tonight. He has confirmed that as the Stuka's have been used in this campaign turn they are not available during a Blitzkrieg advance. Same with any other expended tricks which have been used such as Jean Claude or nuns with guns!
Do;
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Spoke to Rich tonight. He has confirmed that as the Stuka's have been used in this campaign turn they are not available during a Blitzkrieg advance. Same with any other expended tricks which have been used such as Jean Claude or nuns with guns!
Do;
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Hi! ?I was chatting with Mark Bevis at Vapnartak and he recommended Groups.io as a replacement for the old YahooGroups. ?I thought I'd sign up and was somewhat surprised to discover I was already registered but it seems to be because this group was ported over. ?Great news! ?I'm pleased to learn the content hasn't been lost.
By way of a first contribution from me, here's a link to the write up of last weekend's Sharp Practice 2 game on my blog:
--
Richard Crawley
Ask me about Crisis Point
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The answer must be no! The Blitzkrieg rule allows you to continue the attack in the same Campaign turn with whatever troops and supports were survived or were unused from the first encounter.
A Stuka attack once used cannot be used again for two campaign turns as they then return to base to re-arm and re-fuel. As they've already been used this turn they are now back at base refuelling and rearming so are not available again until Campaign Turn 4. The same would apply if for example a shabby Nazi Trick had been chosen for Turn 1 and used on the first table. So yes they carry over surviving supports but not "one shot" options that have already been used!
Don
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That’s great, Monty. Thanks!?
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On Feb 3, 2020, at 11:00 AM, RIM66 via Groups.Io <richardmorrill@...> wrote:
?Hi Byron, I'm afraid I can't answer the question but I will flag this up to Rich today for you. He is, however, on a short break so may not come right back on this. Kind regards, Richard aka Monty Lardo On Sun, Feb 2, 2020 at 08:32 PM, BYRON CHAMPLIN wrote:
Today we played a 1940 Many Rivers to Cross PSC game in which the German player used the Stuka attack support option, won the scenario and then chose to Blitzkrieg to the next table in the same campaign turn. Are we correct that he can carry the Stuka support into the next game since, according to the Blitzkrieg rule, the German player moves to the next table with the same Platoon (less casualties) and surviving supports?
I see that there is a thread about this in the forum from last fall, but no clear consensus Seems to have been reached. Is there still a way to bump this up to Rich and Nick for a definitive answer?
Byron
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Hi Byron,
I'm afraid I can't answer the question but I will flag this up to Rich today for you. He is, however, on a short break so may not come right back on this.
Kind regards,
Richard aka Monty Lardo
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On Sun, Feb 2, 2020 at 08:32 PM, BYRON CHAMPLIN wrote:
Today we played a 1940 Many Rivers to Cross PSC game in which the German player used the Stuka attack support option, won the scenario and then chose to Blitzkrieg to the next table in the same campaign turn. Are we correct that he can carry the Stuka support into the next game since, according to the Blitzkrieg rule, the German player moves to the next table with the same Platoon (less casualties) and surviving supports?
I see that there is a thread about this in the forum from last fall, but no clear consensus Seems to have been reached. Is there still a way to bump this up to Rich and Nick for a definitive answer?
Byron
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Today we played a 1940 Many Rivers to Cross PSC game in which the German player used the Stuka attack support option, won the scenario and then chose to Blitzkrieg to the next table in the same campaign turn. Are we correct that he can carry the Stuka support into the next game since, according to the Blitzkrieg rule, the German player moves to the next table with the same Platoon (less casualties) and surviving supports?
I see that there is a thread about this in the forum from last fall, but no clear consensus Seems to have been reached. Is there still a way to bump this up to Rich and Nick for a definitive answer?
Byron
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Re: IABSM: Question on appropriate cards for scenarios
Quite a novelty I can read it without adjusting the screen
Best Regards
Mike Leese
(N. Wales)
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Not sure why my font is so large?
I am sure it has to be a StuG III/G because there is no StuG III/H.
There is a StuH 42 which is a /G version with a 10.5 cm howitzer instead of the 7.5 cm L48 gun in the /G version.
The /G version came off the production lines starting in DEC 1942. 7720 were produced plus 173 converted from Panzer III tanks returned to the factory. Production ended March 1945. There were various improvements but no major changes made during
production.
StuH 42. 1211 produced Oct 42 - Feb 45 plus 1 prototype. These were in the German independent StuG battalions/Brigades with ~1 StuH per 3 StuG normal. A StuG Company of 10-14 StuG would have 3-4 StuH? and 7-10 StuG.? Panzer, Panzerjager, SS
StuG Bn did not have them.
Source. Page 84 and 85 ENCYCLOPEDIA OF GERMAN TANKS OF WW2. Tech Editor Thomas L Jentz.
Source.?
STURMGESCHUTZE VOR! Franz Kurowski pages 5-8, 31, 115, 159, 254
Ask Rich who I am. ?
Mike Reese
TRACTICS?
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Michael Reese