|
I would like to affordably put together the things needed to repair plated through holes. Anyone have any thoughts? I'm asking because I dont want to buy this more than once. My pocket has not much room for mistakes right now and i seem to do a lot better asking here before buying. Thanks guys
|
Do a search for "eyelet plated through hole" and you will find eyelets designed for that purpose. I do not know what kind of tooling they may or may not require. I have also used just a piece of wire bent through the hole and onto the pads on two sides, but that is not the "official" method. Regards, Mark On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 7:28 PM, lop pol via Groups.Io < the_infinite_penguin@...> wrote: I would like to affordably put together the things needed to repair plated
through holes. Anyone have any thoughts? I'm asking because I dont want
to buy this more than once. My pocket has not much room for mistakes right
now and i seem to do a lot better asking here before buying. Thanks guys
|
On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 08:17 pm, Mark Goldberg wrote:
Do a search for "eyelet plated through hole" and you will find eyelets
designed for that purpose. I do not know what kind of tooling they may or
may not require. I have also used just a piece of wire bent through the
hole and onto the pads on two sides, but that is not the "official" method.
Regards,
Mark
On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 7:28 PM, lop pol via Groups.Io <
the_infinite_penguin@...> wrote:
I would like to affordably put together the things needed to repair plated
through holes. Anyone have any thoughts? I'm asking because I dont want
to buy this more than once. My pocket has not much room for mistakes right
now and i seem to do a lot better asking here before buying. Thanks guys
I see the eyelets on mouser are cheap. What im really wondering about is the staking tool and which one to get.
|
I would like to affordably put together the things needed to repair plated through holes. ======================================================== My first position at Tektronix was in Plant 2 Test-Final. I received an authorization from my manager to repair an ECB with a damaged thru-hole. I used an eyelet from the company switch repair kit and simply soldered both sides without any use of an 'eyelet tool' to flare the end. It worked out fine and saved the ECB. For my own personal use I ordered eyelets of various sizes from Mouser to repair ECBs and rotary switches. Rolynn Tek Bvtn and Sunset 1966-1971
|
Actually, IPC-7711 does allow a repair of a two sided board or a multi-layer board with no internal layer connections at the hole with a C or Z shaped wire as I have done. If you can get a copy, look at plated hole repair procedure 5.4. I have seen eyelets used but I do not know what the tooling was that was used. It looked expensive. Sorry, can't be of more help. Regards, Mark On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 8:33 PM, lop pol via Groups.Io < the_infinite_penguin@...> wrote: On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 08:17 pm, Mark Goldberg wrote:
Do a search for "eyelet plated through hole" and you will find eyelets
designed for that purpose. I do not know what kind of tooling they may or
may not require. I have also used just a piece of wire bent through the
hole and onto the pads on two sides, but that is not the "official"
method.
Regards,
Mark
On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 7:28 PM, lop pol via Groups.Io <
the_infinite_penguin@...> wrote:
I would like to affordably put together the things needed to repair
plated
through holes. Anyone have any thoughts? I'm asking because I dont
want
to buy this more than once. My pocket has not much room for mistakes
right
now and i seem to do a lot better asking here before buying. Thanks
guys
I see the eyelets on mouser are cheap. What im really wondering about is
the staking tool and which one to get.
|
On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 20:33:52 -0700, you wrote: On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 08:17 pm, Mark Goldberg wrote:
Do a search for "eyelet plated through hole" and you will find eyelets
designed for that purpose. I do not know what kind of tooling they may or
may not require. I have also used just a piece of wire bent through the
hole and onto the pads on two sides, but that is not the "official" method.
Regards,
Mark
I see the eyelets on mouser are cheap. What im really wondering about is the staking tool and which one to get.
You could likely make one. You'd need something for an anvil, could easily be made from a 4mm or so rod, put a handle on it. The "hammer" part could be made from an automatic center punch with a different punch part. They're made to be removed. You'd want a design that curled the end of the rivet over. Note that eyelets work best if they are either solid copper, or tinned copper. I'm not sure that any other variety would even accept solder. Also, you may have to drill out the hole a bit if you are trying to get the same inside diameter. A third (and slightly fatal) problem is that I can't see any way to make this work on multi-layer boards. Double sided is the most. It could hold down lifting foil on a single sided board, also. A little lathe work (if you have one) and it might just come together. Harvey
|
I have seen photo instructions for multilayer repair work that
involved carefully removing the outer layer to gain access to the
inner pad.
It was pretty insane. Bodge wires for me any day.
As for setting the eyelets, I set somewhat larger hollow rivets quite
often to mount TO220 transistors.
In production they have a press, but I just use a regular center punch
and a hammer to flare out the end, then flatten it down with a hammer.
This makes a flat head, not a rolled head, for which you need a hollow
ground tool, but it is very easy to do.
One thing you might want to keep in mind is solder needs a gap to penetrate.
If you set the rivet very tight you will not get solder under the
head, just around.
For a short time those eyelets were used instead of vias, with no
soldering, and I was told they were incredibly unreliable.
I think I would just put the eyelet in and solder both sides, without
setting it at all, or at most flare the end to 45 degree, to avoid
that danger.
ST
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 7:37 AM, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
You could likely make one. You'd need something for an anvil, could
easily be made from a 4mm or so rod, put a handle on it. The "hammer"
part could be made from an automatic center punch with a different
punch part. They're made to be removed. You'd want a design that
curled the end of the rivet over.
Note that eyelets work best if they are either solid copper, or tinned
copper. I'm not sure that any other variety would even accept solder.
Also, you may have to drill out the hole a bit if you are trying to
get the same inside diameter. A third (and slightly fatal) problem is
that I can't see any way to make this work on multi-layer boards.
Double sided is the most. It could hold down lifting foil on a single
sided board, also.
A little lathe work (if you have one) and it might just come together.
Harvey
|
Search Ebay for Copper Via Rivets. They are available in several diameters and lengths. You'll have to come up with your own method and tooling to stake them to the PCB, but shouldn't be difficult.
Small nails, small hole punch, etc. should to the trick. Yankee ingenuity rules.
Cheers,
Dave M
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 07:28 pm, lop pol wrote:
I would like to affordably put together the things needed to repair plated
through holes. Anyone have any thoughts? I'm asking because I dont want to
buy this more than once. My pocket has not much room for mistakes right now
and i seem to do a lot better asking here before buying. Thanks guys
|
On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 03:27 am, David M wrote:
Search Ebay for Copper Via Rivets. They are available in several diameters
and lengths. You'll have to come up with your own method and tooling to stake
them to the PCB, but shouldn't be difficult.
Small nails, small hole punch, etc. should to the trick. Yankee ingenuity
rules.
Cheers,
Dave M
On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 07:28 pm, lop pol wrote:
I would like to affordably put together the things needed to repair plated
through holes. Anyone have any thoughts? I'm asking because I dont want to
buy this more than once. My pocket has not much room for mistakes right now
and i seem to do a lot better asking here before buying. Thanks guys
Ok. That is what I will do. The rivets/eyelets are really cheap most under .25 cents a piece at Mouser. I have a bunch of different punches so I will figure something out. Thanks for the input.
|
About 50 years ago I purchased an eyelet press from Kepco, a company that then sold printed circuit board materials. At the time they offered a variety of different diameter rivets, of different lengths, and in both copper and brass. The press came with a number of special tips needed for the different size rivets. I was later able to fabricate special tips to also set Vector, rivet-type terminals.
Unfortunately, as a previous contributor has remarked, these eyelets almost always eventually gave trouble if not carefully soldered to the foil on both sides. Even soldered eyelets sometimes gave trouble, probably because, as another has mentioned, you need a little space under the head for solder to properly flow.
In looking at the press, I saw something I had never noticed before. The press was made in Italy by United Shoe Machinery, the company that made eyeletting machinery for the shoe industry and the original developer of the pop-rivet.
Bruce, KG6OJI
|
The key is the eyelet technique only works with two layer boards. The art
techniques for rebuilding through holes and multi-layer boards but it's not
something you do yourself although I tried it a couple times by building my
own Electrolux replating set up.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 10:38 PM Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote: On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 20:33:52 -0700, you wrote:
On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 08:17 pm, Mark Goldberg wrote:
Do a search for "eyelet plated through hole" and you will find eyelets
designed for that purpose. I do not know what kind of tooling they may
or
may not require. I have also used just a piece of wire bent through the
hole and onto the pads on two sides, but that is not the "official"
method.
Regards,
Mark
I see the eyelets on mouser are cheap. What im really wondering about is
the staking tool and which one to get.
You could likely make one. You'd need something for an anvil, could
easily be made from a 4mm or so rod, put a handle on it. The "hammer"
part could be made from an automatic center punch with a different
punch part. They're made to be removed. You'd want a design that
curled the end of the rivet over.
Note that eyelets work best if they are either solid copper, or tinned
copper. I'm not sure that any other variety would even accept solder.
Also, you may have to drill out the hole a bit if you are trying to
get the same inside diameter. A third (and slightly fatal) problem is
that I can't see any way to make this work on multi-layer boards.
Double sided is the most. It could hold down lifting foil on a single
sided board, also.
A little lathe work (if you have one) and it might just come together.
Harvey
|
They also made the rivnut,which is an internally threaded version of a pop rivet that used an adapter to set with a pop rivet tool. I used them in some projects. I wished that I had boght more of them, surplus. They were 50 cents/100 in USM boxes.
Michael A. Terrell
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: "ebrucehunter via Groups.Io" <Brucekareen@...>
Sent: Jun 16, 2018 10:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Repairing plated through holes.
About 50 years ago I purchased an eyelet press from Kepco, a company that then sold printed circuit board materials. At the time they offered a variety of different diameter rivets, of different lengths, and in both copper and brass. The press came with a number of special tips needed for the different size rivets. I was later able to fabricate special tips to also set Vector, rivet-type terminals.
Unfortunately, as a previous contributor has remarked, these eyelets almost always eventually gave trouble if not carefully soldered to the foil on both sides. Even soldered eyelets sometimes gave trouble, probably because, as another has mentioned, you need a little space under the head for solder to properly flow.
In looking at the press, I saw something I had never noticed before. The press was made in Italy by United Shoe Machinery, the company that made eyeletting machinery for the shoe industry and the original developer of the pop-rivet.
Bruce, KG6OJI
|
You can still buy the pop rivet nuts, but much more $$ than that. You said they use an adapter, I have never seen that. Around here you need to buy a dedicated rivet nut tool for around $100 (which looks much like a slightly modified $20 pop rivet tool). I always speculated that they are set just like a pop rivet, but with a threaded rod instead of the discardable metal shank in a regular rivet. My plan was, should I ever need to set a rivet nut, that I would take a hard screw and put that in the rivet, and pull on the screw from the outside with a washer and a nut. Do you have any opinion if that plan might succeed? I have been curious about it for years. ST On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@...> wrote: They also made the rivnut,which is an internally threaded version of a pop rivet that used an adapter to set with a pop rivet tool. I used them in some projects. I wished that I had boght more of them, surplus. They were 50 cents/100 in USM boxes.
Michael A. Terrell
|
Pace made a "fused eyelet setter" .
This was an eyelet staking tool that ran high current, low voltage through the eyelet after the eyelet was staked and while the eyelet was still under compression.
This fused the flared part of the eyelet to the lands.
Motorola used eyeletted boards in some of their two way radios.
This was the major source of failure as the eyelet solder connection broke free of the lands.
The fix for this was to resolder all of the eyeletted connections on both the top and bottom of the board.
One source of PCB repair things is
Glenn
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 6/15/2018 10:28 PM, lop pol via Groups.Io wrote: I would like to affordably put together the things needed to repair plated through holes. Anyone have any thoughts? I'm asking because I dont want to buy this more than onct setter"e. My pocket has not much room for mistakes right now and i seem to do a lot better asking here before buying. Thanks guys
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glenn Little ARRL Technical Specialist QCWA LM 28417
Amateur Callsign: WB4UIV wb4uiv@... AMSAT LM 2178
QTH: Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx) USSVI LM NRA LM SBE ARRL TAPR
"It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
of the Amateur that holds the license"
|
Mouser stocks several sizes of staking tools from Keystone that might come in handy. Not really cheap, but I have one of the sets (don't remember which one) that I use when I need to stake a terminal onto a PCB. Keystone part nos TL-20, TL-21 and TL-22. These are made primarily for staking turret terminals onto a PCB, but also work well with larfer eyelets and rivets.
Cheers,
Dave M
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 04:48 am, lop pol wrote:
On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 03:27 am, David M wrote:
Search Ebay for Copper Via Rivets. They are available in several diameters
and lengths. You'll have to come up with your own method and tooling to
stake
them to the PCB, but shouldn't be difficult.
Small nails, small hole punch, etc. should to the trick. Yankee ingenuity
rules.
Cheers,
Dave M
On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 07:28 pm, lop pol wrote:
I would like to affordably put together the things needed to repair plated
through holes. Anyone have any thoughts? I'm asking because I dont want
to
buy this more than once. My pocket has not much room for mistakes right
now
and i seem to do a lot better asking here before buying. Thanks guys
Ok. That is what I will do. The rivets/eyelets are really cheap most under .25
cents a piece at Mouser. I have a bunch of different punches so I will figure
something out. Thanks for the input.
|
On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 11:40:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00), you wrote: They also made the rivnut,which is an internally threaded version of a pop rivet that used an adapter to set with a pop rivet tool. I used them in some projects. I wished that I had boght more of them, surplus. They were 50 cents/100 in USM boxes. Harbor freight has them, aluminum, of course. Amazon seems to have tons of them, but not at 50 cents/100, sadly. Harvey
Michael A. Terrell
-----Original Message-----
From: "ebrucehunter via Groups.Io" <Brucekareen@...>
Sent: Jun 16, 2018 10:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Repairing plated through holes.
About 50 years ago I purchased an eyelet press from Kepco, a company that then sold printed circuit board materials. At the time they offered a variety of different diameter rivets, of different lengths, and in both copper and brass. The press came with a number of special tips needed for the different size rivets. I was later able to fabricate special tips to also set Vector, rivet-type terminals.
Unfortunately, as a previous contributor has remarked, these eyelets almost always eventually gave trouble if not carefully soldered to the foil on both sides. Even soldered eyelets sometimes gave trouble, probably because, as another has mentioned, you need a little space under the head for solder to properly flow.
In looking at the press, I saw something I had never noticed before. The press was made in Italy by United Shoe Machinery, the company that made eyeletting machinery for the shoe industry and the original developer of the pop-rivet.
Bruce, KG6OJI
|
I had two sizes, one for 6-32 that used the small hole. the other was for 10-32, and it used the large hole. they were just a smooth, hardened steel shank, with just enough threads at one end to reach the bottom of the Rivnut. I got the small one in the boxes of 100, and the large one was in a retail pack of 25.
<>
This page shows how to do it with a bolt, two washers and two nuts. One nut is oversized, and is just a spacer. I would use the right size of drill stop, and that would eliminate the large nut and one washer.
They were over $10.00 a box, but that surplus dealer had over 1000 boxes that were likely bought by the pound like the other hardware. there were 100 boxes per case, and I should have bought a case, instead of four boxes.
Michael A. Terrell
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
Sent: Jun 16, 2018 11:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Repairing plated through holes.
You can still buy the pop rivet nuts, but much more $$ than that.
You said they use an adapter, I have never seen that. Around here you
need to buy a dedicated rivet nut tool for around $100 (which looks
much like a slightly modified $20 pop rivet tool).
I always speculated that they are set just like a pop rivet, but with
a threaded rod instead of the discardable metal shank in a regular
rivet.
My plan was, should I ever need to set a rivet nut, that I would take
a hard screw and put that in the rivet, and pull on the screw from the
outside with a washer and a nut.
Do you have any opinion if that plan might succeed? I have been
curious about it for years.
ST
On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Michael A. Terrell
<mike.terrell@...> wrote:
They also made the rivnut,which is an internally threaded version of a pop rivet that used an adapter to set with a pop rivet tool. I used them in some projects. I wished that I had boght more of them, surplus. They were 50 cents/100 in USM boxes.
|
On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 17:46:28 +0200, you wrote: You can still buy the pop rivet nuts, but much more $$ than that.
You said they use an adapter, I have never seen that. Around here you
need to buy a dedicated rivet nut tool for around $100 (which looks
much like a slightly modified $20 pop rivet tool).
I always speculated that they are set just like a pop rivet, but with
a threaded rod instead of the discardable metal shank in a regular
rivet.
My plan was, should I ever need to set a rivet nut, that I would take
a hard screw and put that in the rivet, and pull on the screw from the
outside with a washer and a nut.
Do you have any opinion if that plan might succeed? I have been
curious about it for years. It will, but the friction on the threads is likely to strip them if you don't use a screw long enough to fully engage the nut. I'd also worry about torque spinning the thing. You should be able to find the tools on ali-baba, or the local equivalent. Harvey
ST
On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Michael A. Terrell
<mike.terrell@...> wrote:
They also made the rivnut,which is an internally threaded version of a pop rivet that used an adapter to set with a pop rivet tool. I used them in some projects. I wished that I had boght more of them, surplus. They were 50 cents/100 in USM boxes.
Michael A. Terrell
|
Delco used the 'griplet' in one or two model years. They were a disaster. They sent out a service bulletin, and paid a set price to repair those AM/FM radios. They were plated steel, so you had to run wires through them.
I have some of the Pace eyelets out in my shop, but the roof lead in the parts room, and the floor was particleboard, covered with old carpet so the shelving went through the floor and stuff went everywhere. A local vocational school used the Pace system, and a kit of materials were issued to each new student. The teacher gave me the leftovers from kids who dropped the course.
Michael A. Terrell
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: Glenn Little <glennmaillist@...>
Sent: Jun 16, 2018 12:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Repairing plated through holes.
Pace made a "fused eyelet setter" .
This was an eyelet staking tool that ran high current, low voltage
through the eyelet after the eyelet was staked and while the eyelet was
still under compression.
This fused the flared part of the eyelet to the lands.
Motorola used eyeletted boards in some of their two way radios.
This was the major source of failure as the eyelet solder connection
broke free of the lands.
The fix for this was to resolder all of the eyeletted connections on
both the top and bottom of the board.
One source of PCB repair things is
|
Tektronix used eyelets/rivets on their first PCBs and abandoned the practice
because of failures. I think the mechanism is a difference in thermal
expansion that eventually cracks the soldering. I repair JVC TT-101
turntables from the 80's. They used eyelets/rivets on a two sided unplated
board. My standard repair practice is simply to resolder every eyelet/rivet
and then test it and that always fixes them. I have no more information on
the failure mechanism.
I do my plated through hole repairs simply with 30 gauge wire through the
hole and soldered on both the top and bottom. I also have to do this on
unplated boards when adding a socket as the original required soldering on
both the top and bottom.
Dave
|
ROLYNN PRECHTL K7DFW
ebrucehunter
Michael A. Terrell