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On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 11:32 am, Keith Ostertag wrote:

Thanks Albert, you are of course right that I don't have a good grasp of even
the basics. Your posts do help. But I've had enough of this project.

I didn't even want a 465- I wanted a 465B but haven't been able to find one
locally and hesitate to buy one online. If anyone here on the forum can sell
me a good working 465B within a few hours driving distance of Louisville KY
then please PM me.

I will mention that a few years ago Albert, Raymond, David Hess, Ed B., Tom
Miller, Hank, and a few others did help me fix the 465B I had at that time- it
too was a long drawn out discussion, but ultimately together we got it working
and I used it for a few years until I lost everything in my divorce...

Thanks for everyone’s help, this is really a friendly and fascinating group.
At some point in the near future I will post for selling or parting out the
465 and the 464.

Keith Ostertag

-----Original Message-----

From: "machineguy59 via Groups.Io" <machineguy59@...>

Menahem,
Any slight offense is in the past, lets go forward. ?

My goal here is to "first do no harm" then to payback for the help I have received from others.? I don't usually speak up right away, instead giving time for more experienced scope technicians to lead the way.? But I am very experienced with a wide technical base.? Like you I repaired radios and TVs (in the 1960's for me) and was appalled at the corners some manufacturers took to save a few cents.? After graduation from college (1963), I worked for the old Bell Telephone Laboratory, then Collins Radio (both quality minded, high technology organizations).? During my career I worked on the Nike anti-missile system, the first GPS receivers, auto-pilots, cockpit flight instruments, and many other avionics products.? I sometimes consulted for Rockwell International on computer matters.? If you ever ride in a Boeing airplane your pilot uses instrument displays done by the organization I lead.? The Tektronix 24xx series of oscilloscope was everywhere during those working years.? Often even in the conference rooms.? At one time, as Director of Engineering for Air Transport, I authorized purchase of 75 of them in one year.? I tell this story to better introduce myself and to validate my statement that I, too, seek quality in our work.

I think your goals for a perfect (or near perfect) BOM are admirable and I encourage you to lead that effort.? I will contribute when able and when my contributions are helpful.? But perhaps we should consider that some users are unable to source all parts or from all vendors.? At one time, the list I posted included part numbers from Mouser as well as Digikey so they could be ordered form either.? But it was tedious to keep up, especially when some parts are not available from both vendors.? And my goals do not prevent part substitutions when the perfect part is difficult to source.

Finally, what capacitors do you advise to use on the 24x5B A5 board?? I am now repairing my second one and need to make choices for at least the electrolytics.? Both boards I have are missing pads from missing electrolyte leakage.? I clean the boards and replace the pads.? But if I replace the capacitors with electrolytic caps it is certain they will fail one day and it is certain they will further damage the board and my replacement pads are not as robust as the originals.? I see one seller of rebuilt A5 boards uses tantalum electrolytics.? But tantalums are notorious for failure unless significantly de-rated for voltage.? For now I have used electrolytics but have started a plan to change them out for tantalums, derated 2:1 or more.?
? ??
On ?Monday?, ?June? ?18?, ?2018? ?01?:?54?:?55? ?AM? ?CDT, M Yachad <yachadm@...> wrote:

Hey Ron

Nice to get to know you! Thanks for telling us your story.
I understand your dilemma with your wife - we all empathize, even if we won't admit it as candidly as you did ;-)

I had no intention to deprecate, even if if it came across that way, and if I offended you, please accept my apology.

My purpose here is to build an iron-clad 2465 BoM, which will offer ALL users (experienced or not) an optimal long-lasting solution which will not require subsequent intervention under the cover again in our lifetimes.
In short, bringing together ALL our combined knowledge to provide an expert community solution.

I would not be writing all this, if it was not for all your help, because 9 years ago, when I started out on this journey and overhauled my own 2465B, I had no idea where to start, or which parts to select. All I knew was audio and linear PSU's. Only by asking these questions on this forum, was I able to get the info I needed, to do this once-only-required overhaul.

Today, SMPS overhaul (especially in TV's) is a substantial part of my workload, and I have built up my knowledge base substantially, regarding which component types are suited best in which areas of the circuit. I normally go through a few hundred capacitors every month, in these repairs.
So, I bring that acquired knowledge back to the forum, as a form of gratitude.

9 years later, the 2465B is still operating flawlessly, except for 2 problems (unrelated to the overhaul) - U700 failure, and a diode failure.
Solved quickly and painlessly, with the help of the generous people here.

I expect to pass all my lab equipment onto my middle son, aged 17, who is the only one of my 4 children who shows any serious interest in my work. With the maintenance I do on my equipment, I expect it to last 30 years for him as well.

Regarding suppliers, when approaching a project like this, I have learnt to not skimp, and if I have to source the optimal BoM from more than one supplier, then the small additional shipping cost (from the 2nd supplier) is peanuts, when figuring in the 20-30-year lifetime of a job done perfectly, not requiring any redo's in the future.

I use both Mouser and Digikey, but for the 2465 kits, Mouser offers me the parts I want, and also cheaper than Digikey by a few $ for this particular selection. So that extra $1 which you may pay Mouser for shipping, you'll probably save on individual parts costs.

Ancel,
I have used Nichicon PJ in the past as well - I have no aversion to them at all - and I normally use Nichicon PW (a tighter-tolerance brother of PJ) as my #1 choice.
That preference was based entirely on the datasheet specs, I did no comparison testing at all.

Menahem

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Gladu via Groups.Io
Sent: 18 June 2018 14:49
To: [email protected]
Subject: [TekScopes] Tektronix 453 Power Indicator Bulb needed

I am looking for one B1107, 'Power On' indicator bulb, for the Tektronix 453 that I am trying to fix.
The Tek part number is 150-0045-00.
Does anyone have one that they would like to sell me or can anybody suggest a place
to buy a replacement? The bulb appears to be a custom built bulb and may be pure
un-obtainium. :(

Thanks.

73 de N1FBZ

On 2018-06-18 12:03 PM, ROLYNN PRECHTL K7DFW wrote:

I am looking for one B1107, 'Power On' indicator bulb, for the Tektronix 453 that I am trying to fix. The Tek part number is 150-0045-00. Does anyone have one that they would like to sell me or can anybody suggest a place to buy a replacement? The bulb appears to be a custom built bulb and may be pure un-obtainium.


=====================================================================


Remove the bulb from the green lens assembly and look at the side of the bulb base.

The industry number or CM number is embossed in, or applied, to the metal base.

It is a common bulb.
150-0045-00

Rolynn
Tek Bvtn and Sunset 1966-1971

On ?Monday?, ?June? ?18?, ?2018? ?01?:?54?:?55? ?AM? ?CDT, M Yachad <yachadm@...> wrote:

Hey Ron

Nice to get to know you! Thanks for telling us your story.
I understand your dilemma with your wife - we all empathize, even if we won't admit it as candidly as you did ;-)

I had no intention to deprecate, even if if it came across that way, and if I offended you, please accept my apology.

My purpose here is to build an iron-clad 2465 BoM, which will offer ALL users (experienced or not) an optimal long-lasting solution which will not require subsequent intervention under the cover again in our lifetimes.
In short, bringing together ALL our combined knowledge to provide an expert community solution.

I would not be writing all this, if it was not for all your help, because 9 years ago, when I started out on this journey and overhauled my own 2465B, I had no idea where to start, or which parts to select. All I knew was audio and linear PSU's. Only by asking these questions on this forum, was I able to get the info I needed, to do this once-only-required overhaul.

Today, SMPS overhaul (especially in TV's) is a substantial part of my workload, and I have built up my knowledge base substantially, regarding which component types are suited best in which areas of the circuit. I normally go through a few hundred capacitors every month, in these repairs.
So, I bring that acquired knowledge back to the forum, as a form of gratitude.

9 years later, the 2465B is still operating flawlessly, except for 2 problems (unrelated to the overhaul) - U700 failure, and a diode failure.
Solved quickly and painlessly, with the help of the generous people here.

I expect to pass all my lab equipment onto my middle son, aged 17, who is the only one of my 4 children who shows any serious interest in my work. With the maintenance I do on my equipment, I expect it to last 30 years for him as well.

Regarding suppliers, when approaching a project like this, I have learnt to not skimp, and if I have to source the optimal BoM from more than one supplier, then the small additional shipping cost (from the 2nd supplier) is peanuts, when figuring in the 20-30-year lifetime of a job done perfectly, not requiring any redo's in the future.

I use both Mouser and Digikey, but for the 2465 kits, Mouser offers me the parts I want, and also cheaper than Digikey by a few $ for this particular selection. So that extra $1 which you may pay Mouser for shipping, you'll probably save on individual parts costs.

Ancel,
I have used Nichicon PJ in the past as well - I have no aversion to them at all - and I normally use Nichicon PW (a tighter-tolerance brother of PJ) as my #1 choice.
That preference was based entirely on the datasheet specs, I did no comparison testing at all.

Menahem

-------- Original message --------From: Dennis Tillman W7PF <dennis@...> Date: 6/18/18 1:11 PM (GMT-06:00) To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Self Governance of TekScopes.
Hi John,
As I tried to make clear, the moderator, that's me, doesn't have the time to read every post even if I am responsible for keeping their content relevant.

I was asking for help of the "TekScopes Elders" who have been here for so long that they have an intrinsic ability to judge when something has drifted off topic and the skill to gently nudge it back to Tektronix.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of JJ
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 4:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Self Governance of TekScopes.

I would think that it's the moderator's responsibility and no one else
(elders or otherwise) to filter the various threads. There are certain
topics that are completely off topic like politics and should be
cutoff.
But, there are others that are technical and very informative which are
gleaned from years of experience that allow us to pick up information
that is very helpful. I welcome those. So, you need to have a jeweler's
eye!

John Justin

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 1:17 AM, Jeff Urban <JURB6006@...> wrote:

Bit odd you bring this up now when I just got through posting in a
thread about 2 sided boards, and that went into some other things. My
experience, someone else about car radios using the same

manufacturing

methods and all, one with their own stereo unit the fixed by fixing a

2 sided board.

Now there's some thread drift forya, but it is still pertinent to the
subject. Of course WW2 is not. I have a group and I was thinking what
I would do. I would probably get in there and say "this one can

slide,

but anymore of this political shit and we are talking action, I do

not

want it here". And that it makes enemies easier than it makes

friends.

But now there is the Fluke 3300 thread. That is not a Tek scope. I
have no problem with it, I think maybe they could have been spurred

on

to my group but there are not enough members now to be sure to get
anything good back. If that is close enough to on topic fine. Good
that you don't want to stifle.

I think the thing here is that in moderating these, you can't just
grind a line into concrete. That's why we have human moderators. (and
judges and
whatever)

You could send some to my group, which I made specifically for other
test equipment. But I don't want anyone forced. I don't want to force
anyone to do anything. Not the WW2 thing though.

Put it this way, I may respond in threads that go political, but I
will never start one. I have more respect than that.

--
Dennis Tillman W7PF
TekScopes Moderator

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of JJ
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 4:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Self Governance of TekScopes.

I would think that it's the moderator's responsibility and no one else
(elders or otherwise) to filter the various threads. There are certain
topics that are completely off topic like politics and should be
cutoff.
But, there are others that are technical and very informative which are
gleaned from years of experience that allow us to pick up information
that is very helpful. I welcome those. So, you need to have a jeweler's
eye!

John Justin

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 1:17 AM, Jeff Urban <JURB6006@...> wrote:

Bit odd you bring this up now when I just got through posting in a
thread about 2 sided boards, and that went into some other things. My
experience, someone else about car radios using the same

manufacturing

methods and all, one with their own stereo unit the fixed by fixing a

2 sided board.

Now there's some thread drift forya, but it is still pertinent to the
subject. Of course WW2 is not. I have a group and I was thinking what
I would do. I would probably get in there and say "this one can

slide,

but anymore of this political shit and we are talking action, I do

not

want it here". And that it makes enemies easier than it makes

friends.

But now there is the Fluke 3300 thread. That is not a Tek scope. I
have no problem with it, I think maybe they could have been spurred

on

to my group but there are not enough members now to be sure to get
anything good back. If that is close enough to on topic fine. Good
that you don't want to stifle.

I think the thing here is that in moderating these, you can't just
grind a line into concrete. That's why we have human moderators. (and
judges and
whatever)

You could send some to my group, which I made specifically for other
test equipment. But I don't want anyone forced. I don't want to force
anyone to do anything. Not the WW2 thing though.

Put it this way, I may respond in threads that go political, but I
will never start one. I have more respect than that.

--
Dennis Tillman W7PF
TekScopes Moderator

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Urban, > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 10:17 PM

Bit odd you bring this up now when I just got through posting in a
thread about 2 sided boards, and that went into some other things. My
experience, someone else about car radios using the same manufacturing
methods and all, one with their own stereo unit the fixed by fixing a 2
sided board.

Now there's some thread drift forya, but it is still pertinent to the
subject. Of course WW2 is not. I have a group and I was thinking what I
would do. I would probably get in there and say "this one can slide,
but anymore of this political shit and we are talking action, I do not
want it here". And that it makes enemies easier than it makes friends.

But now there is the Fluke 3300 thread. That is not a Tek scope. I
have no problem with it, I think maybe they could have been spurred on
to my group but there are not enough members now to be sure to get
anything good back. If that is close enough to on topic fine. Good that
you don't want to stifle.

I think the thing here is that in moderating these, you can't just
grind a line into concrete. That's why we have human moderators. (and
judges and whatever)

You could send some to my group, which I made specifically for other
test equipment. But I don't want anyone forced. I don't want to force
anyone to do anything. Not the WW2 thing though.

Put it this way, I may respond in threads that go political, but I will
never start one. I have more respect than that.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dennis Tillman W7PF
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 4:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [TekScopes] Self Governance of TekScopes.

Members of Tekscopes,

The TekScopes Group Description on our home page says: "All about classic Tektronix test equipment, its use, repair, and collecting."

I hope everyone understands I do not have the time to read every post to TekScopes. So I am unaware of the majority of the content posted to TekScopes.

On occasion, the content strays beyond our Group Description. I have always been impressed that eventually someone will suggest that the conversation is not consistent with our group description. This is an important stabilizing force that keeps TekScopes relevant.

When this happens it would be a big help to me and the other members if one of our "TekScopes Elders" (you know who you are) intervenes as soon as they see this occur and suggests to the offending member that their current conversation is more appropriate elsewhere.

In the spirit of "See Something, Say Something", I would appreciate the TekScopes Elders making it their responsibly to gently guide any stray conversation back to Tektronix.

I hope it will only take one reminder from a TekScopes Elder to bring the stray conversation back to Tektronix. If that doesn't happen then please send me an email so I can intervene and stop it.

Thank you in advance,
Dennis Tillman W7PF

PS: I would greatly appreciate it if we could keep any follow-up comments to an absolute minimum so first take a look at these three categories to determine your next move:
1) If you understand what I am proposing and you are one of the TekScopes
Elders then there is no need to tell me. Please start now to "See Something, Say Something".
2) If you are someone who feels the need to say you approve of what I
proposed above please refrain from posting at all.
3) If you disagree with what I am proposing pleasing contact me directly
OFF LINE at dennis@... <mailto:dennis@...> and explain how I can do this better.




--
Dennis Tillman W7PF
TekScopes Moderator

On ?Monday?, ?June? ?18?, ?2018? ?10?:?23?:?00? ?AM? ?CDT, Jeff Davis <n0dyjeff@...> wrote:

Hi Ron,


I wonder if we may know each other. I knew a Ron who would be about your age who ran an? engineering organization in Cedar Rapids. At the time, I was a brash young engineering group manager in a different organization who thought he knew it all. Life has a way of humbling one.


Now I live in Southern California and fix up Tak scopes for fun and occasionally resell them. Still working, but probably not too much longer.


Regards,

Jeff

You may address me as Ron, or Mac (for machineguy).? I usually use Mac on the net and Ron in the "real world".? >As a brief introduction, I am 78 years old, retired electronics engineer, now hobbyist, living in Iowa, USA.

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 09:31 am, Michael Gladu wrote:

I am looking for one B1107, 'Power On' indicator bulb, for the Tektronix 453
that I am trying to fix.
The Tek part number is 150-0045-00.
Does anyone have one that they would like to sell me or can anybody suggest a
place
to buy a replacement? The bulb appears to be a custom built bulb and may be
pure
un-obtainium. :(

Thanks.

73 de N1FBZ

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 03:09 pm, ditter2 wrote:

Shortly before leaving Tektronix, I wrote a good app note on making floating
measurements, related to SMPS. That was 20 years ago, I don't think Tek still
has it on the web site. I will try to find the original file and post it. We
made several real measurements in the lab for research in the paper. Floating
instruments, isolators, and differential measurement techniques were compared.
Without rehashing the entire note, a summary is that for most applications,
differential measurements give the best results.
Subtracting channels is a differential mode of operating the scope. Compared
with a true differential amplifier or probe, channel A minus channel B has
much poorer CMRR at higher frequencies. The other major limitation is common
mode range. The common mode is the voltage you are floating on. IT is
limited to the full scale of the scope at the V/DIV setting you are using.
This is a real limitation in SMPS work when you need to measure small voltages
riding on top o flarge voltages. The common example in higher power inverters
is measuring the upper gate drive in a push-pull drive stage. The upper gate
only has a few volt (15 maximum) swing riding on a 350V swing. To keep the
common mode (350 V swing) within the common mode range, you need to set both
channels to 50 V/div. IT is difficult to see the gate drive with a 5 to 15 V
swing with the scope set to 50 V/div.

Steve