Ed,

If you exceed the current rating, the worst that will happen is that the probe may saturate.
The probe will not be damaged; you'll probably have to degauss it though.

You can avoid this by dividing the current that is fed through the probe jaws.
Take a piece of insulated wire (4-6 inches long) & cut it into 5 pieces. Solder them together at both ends.

Feed one length through the probe jaws. The other 4 wires bypass the jaws.

You now have a 5:1 divider.

IIRC, the P6046 must be terminated in 50 ohms at the scope end.

HankC, Boston

WA1HOS



________________________________
From: "TekScopes@..." <TekScopes@...>
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 2:00 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] Digest Number 7396


All about classic Tektronix CRT o'scopes

All about classic Tektronix CRT o'scopes Group
15 New Messages
Digest #7396

1a
152-0177-01 tunnel diode for 485. by "Phil Barton" p.barton99
1b
Re: 152-0177-01 tunnel diode for 485. by "Gala Dragos" gala_dragos
1c
Re: 152-0177-01 tunnel diode for 485. by "jerry massengale" hojo3008
2a
Polish 7000 clone on eBleed by widgethunter
2b
Re: Polish 7000 clone on eBleed by "David DiGiacomo" david_digiacomo
3a
Re: Measure -2450? by "anson_williams@..." anson_williams@...
3b
Re: Measure -2450? by "Rob" doswoodman@...
3c
Re: Measure -2450? by "Bob Albert" bob91343
3d
Re: Measure -2450? by "David DiGiacomo" david_digiacomo
3e
Re: Measure -2450? by "johncharlesgord" johncharlesgord
4a
Re: My new 310A by "Steve" ditter2
5a
Current rating of P6042 by "Alex" snapdiode
5b
Re: Current rating of P6042 by "Brad Thompson" booktronics
5c
Re: Current rating of P6042 by "Ed Breya" edbreya
5d
Re: Current rating of P6042 by "David DiGiacomo" david_digiacomo
Messages
1a
152-0177-01 tunnel diode for 485.
Mon Mar?4,?2013 7:03?am (PST) . Posted by:
"Phil Barton" p.barton99
Looking for Tek 152-0177-01 tunnel diode (10mA and 4pf) for my 485.

Also used in Tek products S53, 067-0587-01, 067-0580-00, 3T5, 3T6, 5S14N,
7D14, 7T11, 7T11A.

Gold DO-17 top hat style. Including postage to the UK.

Phil.


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1b
Re: 152-0177-01 tunnel diode for 485.
Mon Mar?4,?2013 9:31?am (PST) . Posted by:
"Gala Dragos" gala_dragos
Try the 152-0386-0x diode as well, it has 10mA.
--- On Mon, 3/4/13, Phil Barton phil.barton1@ virgin.net> wrote:

From: Phil Barton phil.barton1@ virgin.net>
Subject: [TekScopes] 152-0177-01 tunnel diode for 485.
To: TekScopes@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Monday, March 4, 2013, 5:02 PM

?

Looking for Tek 152-0177-01 tunnel diode (10mA and 4pf) for my 485.Also used in Tek products S53, 067-0587-01, 067-0580-00, 3T5, 3T6, 5S14N, 7D14, 7T11, 7T11A.Gold DO-17 top hat style. Including postage to the UK.Phil.


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1c
Re: 152-0177-01 tunnel diode for 485.
Mon Mar?4,?2013 9:52?am (PST) . Posted by:
"jerry massengale" hojo3008
Phil,

I have a diode I believe to be a 152-0177-02 which has a bit tighter tolerance. The marking reads 140? It is used but unsoldered. They are precious. $10 plus postage from Texas.

Jerry Massengale

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Barton phil.barton1@ virgin.net>
To: TekScopes TekScopes@yahoogrou ps.com>
Sent: Mon, Mar 4, 2013 9:03 am
Subject: [TekScopes] 152-0177-01 tunnel diode for 485.

Looking for Tek 152-0177-01 tunnel diode (10mA and 4pf) for my 485.
Also used in Tek products S53, 067-0587-01, 067-0580-00, 3T5, 3T6, 5S14N, 7D14, 7T11, 7T11A.
Gold DO-17 top hat style. Including postage to the UK.
Phil.


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2a
Polish 7000 clone on eBleed
Mon Mar?4,?2013 7:11?am (PST) . Posted by:
widgethunter
ugly and wayyy overpriced - but interesting!
english lettering... .
Bernd

_. com/itm/OFFER- WIN-OSCILLOSCOPE -EMG-TYPE- TR-4658-works- like-
TEKTRONIX-7000- 250MHz-/32108389 2891?pt=BI_ Oscilloscopes&ha sh=item4ac217649 b_

(. com/itm/OFFER- WIN-OSCILLOSCOPE -EMG-TYPE- TR-4658-works- like-TEKTRONIX- 7000-250MHz- /321083892891? pt=BI_Oscillosco pes&hash= item4ac217649b
)
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2b
Re: Polish 7000 clone on eBleed
Mon Mar?4,?2013 9:56?am (PST) . Posted by:
"David DiGiacomo" david_digiacomo
On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 8:11 AM, tubesnthings@ aol.com> wrote:

ugly and wayyy overpriced - but interesting!
english lettering... .
Bernd

. com/itm/OFFER- WIN-OSCILLOSCOPE -EMG-TYPE- TR-4658-works- like-TEKTRONIX- 7000-250MHz- /321083892891? pt=BI_Oscillosco pes&hash= item4ac217649b

I think we have discussed these before... they were not Polish... they
were made by EMG in Hungary:

eum.org/r/ elektronik_ oszcilloscope_ tr_4658_155. html


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3a
Re: Measure -2450?
Mon Mar?4,?2013 7:51?am (PST) . Posted by:
"anson_williams@..." anson_williams@...
Sorry yes its voltage. Its for testing the high voltage regulator in a 475. I cannot afford another meter or a $100 probe. The voltage divider idea may work.

--- In TekScopes@yahoogrou ps.com, Bob Albert wrote:

Can you be more specific??? Are you measuring voltage?

If so, an ordinary Simpson 260 or Triplett 630 will do, as long as it doesn't need to be very accurate.

If you need precision you can cobble up a voltage divider and measure the values to calculate the result.?? Most meters go to 1000 V so you need to divide by maybe 3 or 5.

Bob

















??









Is there a way to take this reading without a 3k meter?

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3b
Re: Measure -2450?
Mon Mar?4,?2013 10:09?am (PST) . Posted by:
"Rob" doswoodman@...

I don't really see why an 80K-40 wouldn't be useful in the same

application
that the 80K-15 was made for<<< <<

Obviously it's because the yellow one came in the box with the air cleaner..
hence the name *smile *.

The red ones are called "High Voltage Probe for anything but Air Cleaner
Prober Probes." ..

Hopefully taken in the spirit intended.

Rob

From: TekScopes@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:TekScopes@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf
Of J. L. Trantham
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 7:20 AM
To: TekScopes@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Measure -2450?

It's the same size as the 80K-40, yellow instead of red, has the same 1 GOhm
input impedance when used with a 10 MOhm input meter, but rated only for 15
KV instead of 40 KV.

I don't really see why an 80K-40 wouldn't be useful in the same application
that the 80K-15 was made for. Or perhaps the 80K-40 came later with higher
rated insulation to 40 KV?

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@yahoogrou ps.com
[mailto:TekScopes@yahoogrou ps.com ] On
Behalf
Of Mark Wendt
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 4:25 AM
To: TekScopes@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Measure -2450?

On 03/04/2013 01:13 AM, David wrote:

Fluke 80K-6 high voltage probes are inexpensive used and good to 6
kilovolts. They are designed to be used with a 10 megohm input
resistance multimeter which is standard. They only have 75 megohms of
input resistance though which may be a problem measuring many of the
CRT voltages like the grid or focus but will work fine for measuring
the cathode voltage which is regulated.

I knew probes could be used for a lot of things, but this is a new one on
me:

. com/itm/FLUKE- 80K-15-Electroni c-Air-Cleaner- Probe-/31041859
5539>

Mark

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo! Groups Links


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3c
Re: Measure -2450?
Mon Mar?4,?2013 10:22?am (PST) . Posted by:
"Bob Albert" bob91343
Maybe you can't afford another meter, but the old Simpson or Triplett units go for low prices at swap meets.? Occasionally an old timer will give you one.? They are very useful and even in this modern day there will be situations where they do a better job.

The main limitation is accuracy, and on low voltage ranges, the burden.? Excellent for continuity, diode test, etc. which will be much faster with one of those.? I can check a row of 20 diodes with a VOM in maybe 8 or 10 seconds; try that on your DVM.

Bob

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3d
Re: Measure -2450?
Mon Mar?4,?2013 10:27?am (PST) . Posted by:
"David DiGiacomo" david_digiacomo
On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:55 PM, Bob Albert bob91343@yahoo. com> wrote:

Can you be more specific? Are you measuring voltage?

If so, an ordinary Simpson 260 or Triplett 630 will do, as long as it
doesn't need to be very accurate.

If you need precision you can cobble up a voltage divider and measure the
values to calculate the result. Most meters go to 1000 V so you need to
divide by maybe 3 or 5.

Bob, what are you saying here? As far as I know, the Simpson 260 is
rated to 1000VDC and the Triplett 630 to 1200VDC. How would you use
them to measure 2450V without an external divider? Are you just
counting on the VOM loading to drag the voltage down to something in
range?


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3e
Re: Measure -2450?
Mon Mar?4,?2013 10:59?am (PST) . Posted by:
"johncharlesgord" johncharlesgord
Some of the earlier Triplett 630 models went to 5kV or 6kV. The more recent 630NA and 630NS are only to 1200V.

--John Gord

--- In TekScopes@yahoogrou ps.com, David DiGiacomo wrote:

On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:55 PM, Bob Albert wrote:

Can you be more specific? Are you measuring voltage?

If so, an ordinary Simpson 260 or Triplett 630 will do, as long as it
doesn't need to be very accurate.

If you need precision you can cobble up a voltage divider and measure the
values to calculate the result. Most meters go to 1000 V so you need to
divide by maybe 3 or 5.

Bob, what are you saying here? As far as I know, the Simpson 260 is
rated to 1000VDC and the Triplett 630 to 1200VDC. How would you use
them to measure 2450V without an external divider? Are you just
counting on the VOM loading to drag the voltage down to something in
range?

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4a
Re: My new 310A
Mon Mar?4,?2013 8:23?am (PST) . Posted by:
"Steve" ditter2
--- In TekScopes@yahoogrou ps.com, Roland Manser wrote:

Bought a 310A for little money, in perfect condition, optically and
electrically (what a sharp trace!), lucky me.

2 Questions:

It has serial number 013491, rectifier is with silicon diodes.
Anybody has an idea on which year this little oven was built?

Currently the transformer is wired for the "middle" tap. When I measure
my line voltage, it is 230V, with very little variation. Would it make
sense to wire the scope for 240V, to reduce voltage and heat stress?


Roland

This scope model was in production for well over a decade. As mentioned several times in this forum, there is no direct way to determine production date from serial number. These records were never centralized or maintained within Tek. The best way to determine when yours might have been built is to look at the date codes on the electrolytic caps. It is safe to assume that Tek did not carry the inventory long for a higher runner like this, so the scope was probably made within four months or so of the date code.

I have found the filter caps in the 310A to be well over the size needed for maintaining regulation on low line conditions. That probably explains that why the four that I have owned all functioned perfectly with the original caps, being nearly 50 years old. If your nominal line voltage is in the high range, I would try switching to the higher tap. If you have a variac, you could test this first before you make the mod by setting it to the low end of the current range, then measuring the ripple valley of the filter caps to see home much headroom the regulators have. This measurement is easier if you have a differential comparator plug in such as a type W or 7A13.

Steve


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5a
Current rating of P6042
Mon Mar?4,?2013 8:48?am (PST) . Posted by:
"Alex" snapdiode
I think we all know intuitively what happens if a voltage rating is exceeded on a probe or just in general: Bzzt and maybe poof!

But what happens if you exceed the current rating of a P6042? It's rated at 20A up to 1MHz, I'm working on a project with a 40A rectifier.

Will there be permanent damage to the probe? (If I can even get 40A through a wire small enough to fit the probe).

I'll probably end up using a shunt but it might still be possible to get a malfunction current way higher than 40A at the start of this project.


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5b
Re: Current rating of P6042
Mon Mar?4,?2013 9:09?am (PST) . Posted by:
"Brad Thompson" booktronics
On 3/4/2013 11:48 AM, Alex wrote:

I think we all know intuitively what happens if a voltage rating is
exceeded on a probe or just in general: Bzzt and maybe poof!

But what happens if you exceed the current rating of a P6042? It's rated
at 20A up to 1MHz, I'm working on a project with a 40A rectifier.

Will there be permanent damage to the probe? (If I can even get 40A
through a wire small enough to fit the probe).

I'll probably end up using a shunt but it might still be possible to get
a malfunction current way higher than 40A at the start of this project.

Hello--

It's possible that running a current probe over its rating would
result in semipermanent magnetism of the core. You'd then need to
demagnetize the core by running gradually-decreasin g AC
through it (thinking of a filament transformer w/a resistive load
fed from a Variac). I've never encountered the problem,
so I'm hoping that someone else will comment.

You can fake a current shunt by connecting several wires of
equal length in parallel. Clamp onto one wire and measure
the current. Then multiply the measurement by the number
of wires in the bundle.

73--

Brad AA1IP


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5c
Re: Current rating of P6042
Mon Mar?4,?2013 9:28?am (PST) . Posted by:
"Ed Breya" edbreya
If your 40A is at line frequency or SMPS frequencies like 20-100 kHz, it should be no problem - the linearity and accuracy will suffer, but there shouldn' t be much power dissipation when occasionally exceeding the specs.

Of course, there must be some current/frequency level that will cause damage due to overheating the secondary windings or the core, making things melt. The frequency will be most important since it causes the power induction. Picture the situation at DC - no matter how much current you shove through the link, the core will saturate, so no more signal will be induced into the secondary windings. Only the power dissipation in the link itself can generate enough heat to melt things around it. The Hall elements on DC probes are also protected by core saturation.

As frequency goes up, the problem becomes heat from the power dissipation in the windings and from core loss. When the frequency gets high enough, the core doesn't matter any more - everything will heat up from the RF current. Also, single pulses that are extremely large can damage things - but that's true with anything.

Ed

--- In TekScopes@yahoogrou ps.com, "Alex" wrote:

I think we all know intuitively what happens if a voltage rating is exceeded on a probe or just in general: Bzzt and maybe poof!

But what happens if you exceed the current rating of a P6042? It's rated at 20A up to 1MHz, I'm working on a project with a 40A rectifier.

Will there be permanent damage to the probe? (If I can even get 40A through a wire small enough to fit the probe).

I'll probably end up using a shunt but it might still be possible to get a malfunction current way higher than 40A at the start of this project.

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5d
Re: Current rating of P6042
Mon Mar?4,?2013 10:23?am (PST) . Posted by:
"David DiGiacomo" david_digiacomo
I'm not sure if this affects the OP, but it's worth considering that
Tek AC/DC current probes like the P6042 don't do the DC measurement in
the obvious open-loop way. Instead, the sense winding is driven with
DC current to hold the net DC flux at zero. If you peg the DC amp
with a large startup current, the core will get magnetized and then
you won't get accurate measurements until you degauss it.


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And the lawyers ....

73, Dick, W1KSZ

I think that some of the old-line classic equipment has evolved into whimpier versions due to cost pressure, fewer HV applications, and mainly product safety requirements and standards.

Ed

Aha, I have a Simpson 260 Series 6, which only goes to 1000V.
Series 1 through 5 had the 5000V ranges.

--- In TekScopes@..., "Steve" <ditter2@...> wrote:

--- In TekScopes@..., Roland Manser <roland.manser@> wrote:

Bought a 310A for little money, in perfect condition, optically and
electrically (what a sharp trace!), lucky me.

2 Questions:

It has serial number 013491, rectifier is with silicon diodes.
Anybody has an idea on which year this little oven was built?

Currently the transformer is wired for the "middle" tap. When I measure
my line voltage, it is 230V, with very little variation. Would it make
sense to wire the scope for 240V, to reduce voltage and heat stress?


Roland

This scope model was in production for well over a decade. As mentioned several times in this forum, there is no direct way to determine production date from serial number. These records were never centralized or maintained within Tek. The best way to determine when yours might have been built is to look at the date codes on the electrolytic caps. It is safe to assume that Tek did not carry the inventory long for a higher runner like this, so the scope was probably made within four months or so of the date code.

I have found the filter caps in the 310A to be well over the size needed for maintaining regulation on low line conditions. That probably explains that why the four that I have owned all functioned perfectly with the original caps, being nearly 50 years old. If your nominal line voltage is in the high range, I would try switching to the higher tap. If you have a variac, you could test this first before you make the mod by setting it to the low end of the current range, then measuring the ripple valley of the filter caps to see home much headroom the regulators have. This measurement is easier if you have a differential comparator plug in such as a type W or 7A13.

Steve

Thanks for the hints!
Unmodified, the +300V (found out this is the most critical one) starts showing line frequency dents below 200V on the AC line.
When the line voltage in Switzerland drops to 200V, this will be in the newspaper tomorrow...

So I modified it to 240V line.
Now it needs at least 212V on the line for proper regulation.
And I have a cooler running, energy conscious 310A ;-)
0.75A before, 0.69A after, @230V line

b.t.w -150V supply is at -149.6V, +300V at 297.9V, +100V at 101V, the last owner must have done the calibration right.
Peak to peak ripple on the 300V supply is 35mV.

The large aluminum-housing cap (Sprague) 150uF 250V has 6021 printed on it, could this be 1960, week 21?
A 53 years old electrolytic cap...

Roland

Some of the earlier Triplett 630 models went to 5kV or 6kV. The more recent 630NA and 630NS are only to 1200V.

--John Gord

On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:55 PM, Bob Albert <bob91343@...> wrote:

Can you be more specific? Are you measuring voltage?

If so, an ordinary Simpson 260 or Triplett 630 will do, as long as it
doesn't need to be very accurate.

If you need precision you can cobble up a voltage divider and measure the
values to calculate the result. Most meters go to 1000 V so you need to
divide by maybe 3 or 5.

Bob, what are you saying here? As far as I know, the Simpson 260 is
rated to 1000VDC and the Triplett 630 to 1200VDC. How would you use
them to measure 2450V without an external divider? Are you just
counting on the VOM loading to drag the voltage down to something in
range?

I'm not sure if this affects the OP, but it's worth considering that
Tek AC/DC current probes like the P6042 don't do the DC measurement in
the obvious open-loop way. Instead, the sense winding is driven with
DC current to hold the net DC flux at zero. If you peg the DC amp
with a large startup current, the core will get magnetized and then
you won't get accurate measurements until you degauss it.

开云体育

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 8:11 AM, <tubesnthings@...> wrote:

ugly and wayyy overpriced - but interesting!
english lettering....
Bernd

I think we have discussed these before... they were not Polish... they
were made by EMG in Hungary:

If your 40A is at line frequency or SMPS frequencies like 20-100 kHz, it should be no problem - the linearity and accuracy will suffer, but there shouldn't be much power dissipation when occasionally exceeding the specs.

Of course, there must be some current/frequency level that will cause damage due to overheating the secondary windings or the core, making things melt. The frequency will be most important since it causes the power induction. Picture the situation at DC - no matter how much current you shove through the link, the core will saturate, so no more signal will be induced into the secondary windings. Only the power dissipation in the link itself can generate enough heat to melt things around it. The Hall elements on DC probes are also protected by core saturation.

As frequency goes up, the problem becomes heat from the power dissipation in the windings and from core loss. When the frequency gets high enough, the core doesn't matter any more - everything will heat up from the RF current. Also, single pulses that are extremely large can damage things - but that's true with anything.

Ed

On 3/4/2013 11:48 AM, Alex wrote:

I think we all know intuitively what happens if a voltage rating is
exceeded on a probe or just in general: Bzzt and maybe poof!

But what happens if you exceed the current rating of a P6042? It's rated
at 20A up to 1MHz, I'm working on a project with a 40A rectifier.

Will there be permanent damage to the probe? (If I can even get 40A
through a wire small enough to fit the probe).

I'll probably end up using a shunt but it might still be possible to get
a malfunction current way higher than 40A at the start of this project.

Hello--

It's possible that running a current probe over its rating would
result in semipermanent magnetism of the core. You'd then need to demagnetize the core by running gradually-decreasing AC
through it (thinking of a filament transformer w/a resistive load
fed from a Variac). I've never encountered the problem,
so I'm hoping that someone else will comment.

You can fake a current shunt by connecting several wires of
equal length in parallel. Clamp onto one wire and measure
the current. Then multiply the measurement by the number
of wires in the bundle.

73--

Brad AA1IP

I think we all know intuitively what happens if a voltage rating is exceeded on a probe or just in general: Bzzt and maybe poof!

But what happens if you exceed the current rating of a P6042? It's rated at 20A up to 1MHz, I'm working on a project with a 40A rectifier.

Will there be permanent damage to the probe? (If I can even get 40A through a wire small enough to fit the probe).

I'll probably end up using a shunt but it might still be possible to get a malfunction current way higher than 40A at the start of this project.

--- In TekScopes@..., Roland Manser <roland.manser@...> wrote:

Bought a 310A for little money, in perfect condition, optically and
electrically (what a sharp trace!), lucky me.

2 Questions:

It has serial number 013491, rectifier is with silicon diodes.
Anybody has an idea on which year this little oven was built?

Currently the transformer is wired for the "middle" tap. When I measure
my line voltage, it is 230V, with very little variation. Would it make
sense to wire the scope for 240V, to reduce voltage and heat stress?


Roland

This scope model was in production for well over a decade. As mentioned several times in this forum, there is no direct way to determine production date from serial number. These records were never centralized or maintained within Tek. The best way to determine when yours might have been built is to look at the date codes on the electrolytic caps. It is safe to assume that Tek did not carry the inventory long for a higher runner like this, so the scope was probably made within four months or so of the date code.

I have found the filter caps in the 310A to be well over the size needed for maintaining regulation on low line conditions. That probably explains that why the four that I have owned all functioned perfectly with the original caps, being nearly 50 years old. If your nominal line voltage is in the high range, I would try switching to the higher tap. If you have a variac, you could test this first before you make the mod by setting it to the low end of the current range, then measuring the ripple valley of the filter caps to see home much headroom the regulators have. This measurement is easier if you have a differential comparator plug in such as a type W or 7A13.

Steve

Sorry yes its voltage. Its for testing the high voltage regulator in a 475. I cannot afford another meter or a $100 probe. The voltage divider idea may work.

开云体育

ugly and wayyy overpriced - but interesting!

english lettering....

Bernd

?