Re: 454A vs 465B Recommendation
I also own both a 465 and a 454. The 454 has a smaller screen and 50% greater BW. However in tests I very recently made, both scopes would display and (barely) trigger on a 200mhz signal from a GDO. The 465 series does not focus as sharp as the 454/453, this is a CRT design issue, Tek sacrificed spot size for brightness, screen size, and writing speed on the newer tubes. The difference is small IMHO and not worth fussing over.
The 454/453 may use common parts, though the Nuvistor triodes in the front end are becoming as expensive and hard to find as 1L6's for Trans-Oceanics. (TV 13CW4's *might* sub). They ARE harder to fix, in some cases you have to completely disassemble the things to get at the area you need to work on. I recently fixed the channel 1 variable pot which had become "ganged" with the V/D switch due to gunk between the shafts. I was able to reach the Allan screw to loosen the inner shaft at the pot with a long hex key. To reach the same on channel two might have required pulling the CRT and shield!
453/454 scopes rarely needed replacement CRT's compared to the 465 series. The techs working in the Metrology lab at Gould CSD where I used to work told me they had purchased spare CRT's for all the 454 and 465/475 scopes they owned. They nearly used up all of the spares for the 465/475 scopes, but still had almost all of the spares in unopened boxes for the 454's. This was years later when they were finally selling off these scopes to buy newer ones. BTW I bought my 454 from Gould when they auctioned them off to the employees. I also got a set of probes and a cart out of the deal. (The idiots threw out the spare tubes before I could get my hands on one!).
If you need to use the scope in XY mode (like for a curve tracer such as the Heath IT-1121) the 465 is a better choice with a "sane" xy mode and larger screen. The 465 is a little lighter and easier to carry than the 454 if that matters.
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--- In TekScopes@..., Paul Amaranth <paul@...> wrote:
I have both a 465 and a 453.
The trace might be a little crisper on the 454 and the controls might be a little larger.
But from using both, I'd get the 465b and look for a parts mule for the day when repair is needed.
BTW, since you're looking at that genre of instruments, you'll also need a second scope to
fix the first one when it breaks. In the FWIW department, it's OK to stop at 2, you don't
have to become like us. Or is it 3 with the parts mule? And so the slippery slope starts ...
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 04:25:44PM -0000, Frank Edwards wrote:
I have an opportunity to get either a 454 or 465. Spec wise, either will meet my need, both are working and there is no difference in cost. From what I have read, the 454 contains no proprietary parts and can therefore be repaired using common off-the-shelf parts, vs the 465 which has some proprietary parts but is newer. It seems to me there are many more 465s available, but I have not been looking for any particular part. My intent is to get a scope that will not become economically unrepairable because of availability of repair parts. In summary, from a reliability and repairability perspective, which should be the better option?
--
Paul Amaranth, GCIH | Rochester MI, USA
Aurora Group, Inc. | Security, Systems & Software
paul@... | Unix & Windows
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Re: Off topic B&K Precision 1801 frequency counter [3 Attachments]
That is great news. Sometimes direct observation can point directly to the area of the circuit where the problem is. I always install sockets if possible. I hate having to desolder a part more than once which tends to risk the printed circuit board. On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 09:04:52 -0500, Chris G <tikitoteam@...> wrote: Hi again,i want to thank you David for your help,the ic 74ls90 came home
yesterday and i got up early to work on it,i decide to put a socket in case
it need to be changed again on the future and viola the counter is working
as new...i really appreciate the help of all of you guys, now i have
another piece of equipment on my collection....thanks so much
It,s a picture of the counter measure a 1khz signal....
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Re: 454A vs 465B Recommendation
You need two oscilloscopes so you can use one to fix the other and if they are different types so you can cover more applications, then hen you need a parts mule for each so that is four. My mistake was repairing my parts mules which lead to buying more parts mules which I also repaired. On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:34:48 -0500, Paul Amaranth <paul@...> wrote: But from using both, I'd get the 465b and look for a parts mule for the day when repair is needed.
BTW, since you're looking at that genre of instruments, you'll also need a second scope to
fix the first one when it breaks. In the FWIW department, it's OK to stop at 2, you don't
have to become like us. Or is it 3 with the parts mule? And so the slippery slope starts ...
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Re: 454A vs 465B Recommendation
The 454 and 465 series both use tunnel diodes which seem to be the most common point of failure and the most difficult parts to find replacements for. The 465 series was built for a long time so spare parts are plentiful and inexpensive. Performance wise the 454A (150 MHz) is a little bit faster than the 465B (100 MHz) but not at the more sensitive deflection factors. They both support delayed sweep instead of mixed sweep. I would get the 465B. On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:25:44 -0000, "Frank Edwards" <fmedwards3@...> wrote: I have an opportunity to get either a 454 or 465. Spec wise, either will meet my need, both are working and there is no difference in cost. From what I have read, the 454 contains no proprietary parts and can therefore be repaired using common off-the-shelf parts, vs the 465 which has some proprietary parts but is newer. It seems to me there are many more 465s available, but I have not been looking for any particular part. My intent is to get a scope that will not become economically unrepairable because of availability of repair parts. In summary, from a reliability and repairability perspective, which should be the better option?
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Dave -
Where did you get that little bearing you used to repair the motor?
Dick
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-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf
Of Dave C
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:17 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: 475 Fan Motor
The front (well, actually it's the rear) end of the motor bears the greatest
load, having to support the impeller. That sleeve bearing almost always is
found to be hollowed out and the shaft rattling around.
I added a tiny ball bearing to that end of the motor. The fan is
significantly quieter. The rear (with the PCB) end sleeve bearing can't be
helped likewise because of the mating of the PCB. But it's worth it to
remove the board and lubricate it.
Photos of my modification are here:
<>
Good luck,
(another) Dave
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Sphere Logic Analyzer Pods available
There is a special place in hell for the guy that throws all the logic analyzer pods and leadsets away when the gear is sold, along with all the scope probes and scope covers. somewhere out there is a dumpster filled with the parts we are all dying for, and a truly evil person.
On the plus side, I managed to assemble a big batch of pods, leadsets, etc., and then didn't wind up using them, so they are going to hit the road too as parts of the big space clean-up. I have a DAS9100 color analyzer too, which works with many of these (P6452/P6455), and you can HAVE it FREE if you take at least some of the pods/leadsets. kind of big and heavy, though, so best to pick it up.
anyway, here's the treasures I found during clean-up:
1ea. P6452 NEW factory set with all acc., $40
1ea. P6452 complete set, may be used, factory box, $40
8ea. P6452 used just pod and cable, $25
1ea. P6455 NEW factory set with all acc. $40
2ea. P6455 used just pod and cable, $25
1ea. P6465 used w/leads, $30
1ea. P6407 used word recognizer, no acc. $25
4ea. P6460 complete sets, may be used, factory box $50
also, one big box of what appear to be 1240 probes missing labels with leadsets, RAM & ROM cartridges, also extra repair parts, cables, etc. $40 for all.
I also have a color 1240 portable analyzer complete with accessories and pouch for $250, as-is, was working when put into storage.
ALSO, I have many PMI/Wavetek 1038D14 accessories, power sensors (even for the scarce N10 unit), if any interest. I have used these scalar analyzers for years, and they are great, but inevitably, one accumulates too may of them and spares.
email off list if any interest,
all the best,
walter (walter2 -at- sphere.bc.ca)
sphere research corp.
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Re: 454A vs 465B Recommendation
I have both a 465 and a 453. The trace might be a little crisper on the 454 and the controls might be a little larger. But from using both, I'd get the 465b and look for a parts mule for the day when repair is needed. BTW, since you're looking at that genre of instruments, you'll also need a second scope to fix the first one when it breaks. In the FWIW department, it's OK to stop at 2, you don't have to become like us. Or is it 3 with the parts mule? And so the slippery slope starts ... On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 04:25:44PM -0000, Frank Edwards wrote: I have an opportunity to get either a 454 or 465. Spec wise, either will meet my need, both are working and there is no difference in cost. From what I have read, the 454 contains no proprietary parts and can therefore be repaired using common off-the-shelf parts, vs the 465 which has some proprietary parts but is newer. It seems to me there are many more 465s available, but I have not been looking for any particular part. My intent is to get a scope that will not become economically unrepairable because of availability of repair parts. In summary, from a reliability and repairability perspective, which should be the better option?
-- Paul Amaranth, GCIH | Rochester MI, USA Aurora Group, Inc. | Security, Systems & Software paul@... | Unix & Windows
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Please read the original message #88725 in this thread.
Albert
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Hi Albert,
they must have had headache that time ;-)))
Can you tell the Ebay item number ?
Herbert
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Hi Albert,
they must have had headache that time ;-)))
Can you tell the Ebay item number ?
Herbert
Am 18-02-2013 16:34, schrieb Albert:
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?
Hi Herbert,
The confusing situation is that there were two different
probes (a voltage probe and a current probe) with the same
number P6022. Maybe not at the same time. Last mention of
the voltage probe was in 1962. The probe at ebay is the
voltage probe.
Albert
> it is a current probe, for use on 1MOhm inputs with
> and Bandwidth equal or larger than 300 MHz.
>
> 1mA / 1mV (8,5kHz - 100 MHz)
> 10mA/1mV (935Hz - 120 MHz)
>
> usefull for development in switched PSU and similar!
>
> Herbert
> > P6022 at Tektronix Catalog 1962 page 192.
> > Albert
> >
> >
>
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Re: Frequency response flatness in conventional sampling (say 7S11/S
Hi David,
So far I didn't find effect of S-6 blow-by adjustment on sine wave amplitudes. I probably did something wrong, since the effect on square waves (tilt) is considerable. A change of C20 in the S-6 only causes a vertical shift of the sine wave. I tested some frequencies from 100 kHz to 1 GHz.
It's very annoying that the SG503 and my GR-type oscillators don't have a trigger output. Since the S-6 doesn't have a trigger output either I'm forced to use a CT-3 trigger pick-off and external triggering. With the S-2 I can compare internal triggering (CT-3 omitted) with such external triggering. The CT-3 has considerable effect on frequency response, about 6% to 8% downward trend when frequency is increased to 900 MHz.
Albert
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--- In TekScopes@..., David <davidwhess@...> wrote:
The blow-by effect on frequency response could be tested. Grossly
misadjust it deliberately and see if the frequency response changes. I
found it to be the easiest thing to calibrate on my S-4 sampling heads
so I would not worry about temporarily misadjusting it.
I would also compare two different types of sampling heads like an S-2
and S-4 which have significantly different transient response
characteristics in the 10ns range do to design and see if they agree.
I may try the above with an S-1 and S-4 and my SG503 just to see what
kind of results I get.
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Re: 454A vs 465B Recommendation
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Frank Edwards <fmedwards3@...> wrote: I have an opportunity to get either a 454 or 465. Spec wise, either will meet my need, both are working and there is no difference in cost. From what I have read, the 454 contains no proprietary parts and can therefore be repaired using common off-the-shelf parts, vs the 465 which has some proprietary parts but is newer. It seems to me there are many more 465s available, but I have not been looking for any particular part. My intent is to get a scope that will not become economically unrepairable because of availability of repair parts. In summary, from a reliability and repairability perspective, which should be the better option? Just about the same question was asked last month:
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Re: 454A vs 465B Recommendation
My vote is for the 465B.
?
YMMV
?
?
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----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:25
AM
Subject: [TekScopes] 454A vs 465B
Recommendation
?
I have an opportunity to get either a 454 or 465. Spec wise, either will
meet my need, both are working and there is no difference in cost. From what I
have read, the 454 contains no proprietary parts and can therefore be repaired
using common off-the-shelf parts, vs the 465 which has some proprietary parts
but is newer. It seems to me there are many more 465s available, but I have
not been looking for any particular part. My intent is to get a scope that
will not become economically unrepairable because of availability of repair
parts. In summary, from a reliability and repairability perspective, which
should be the better option?
|
Hi Herbert,
The confusing situation is that there were two different probes (a voltage probe and a current probe) with the same number P6022. Maybe not at the same time. Last mention of the voltage probe was in 1962. The probe at ebay is the voltage probe.
Albert
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it is a current probe, for use on 1MOhm inputs with
and Bandwidth equal or larger than 300 MHz.
1mA / 1mV (8,5kHz - 100 MHz)
10mA/1mV (935Hz - 120 MHz)
usefull for development in switched PSU and similar!
Herbert P6022 at Tektronix Catalog 1962 page 192.
Albert
|
454A vs 465B Recommendation
I have an opportunity to get either a 454 or 465. Spec wise, either will meet my need, both are working and there is no difference in cost. From what I have read, the 454 contains no proprietary parts and can therefore be repaired using common off-the-shelf parts, vs the 465 which has some proprietary parts but is newer. It seems to me there are many more 465s available, but I have not been looking for any particular part. My intent is to get a scope that will not become economically unrepairable because of availability of repair parts. In summary, from a reliability and repairability perspective, which should be the better option?
|
Hi Albert,
it is a current probe, for use on 1MOhm inputs with
and Bandwidth equal or larger than 300 MHz.
?
1mA / 1mV (8,5kHz - 100 MHz)
10mA/1mV (935Hz -? 120 MHz)
usefull for development in switched PSU and similar!
Herbert
Am 18-02-2013 11:27, schrieb Albert:
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?
P6022 at Tektronix Catalog 1962 page 192.
Albert
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Unusual TM500 PI for sale.
It's a DP-100 Digital Video Probe in mint condition. It works in TM500 or TM5000 frames. I don't have a P6454 or P6460 to go with it, but I see that QService currently has a P6460 available.
"The DP-100 Digital Video Probe provides an easy way to observe up to 10 digital data lines simultaneously ... Output can be displayed on a picture monitor, waveform monitor, vectorscope, or an oscilloscope"
I'm open to offers on this as while it's apparently a bit rare, it probably also has limited application.
Cheers
Dave
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Re: Need help with component value on TDS684A CRT driver board
Thank you for the information - that's kinda what I expected but I wanted to make sure. Thanks again.
Mike
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--- In TekScopes@..., "picredburner" <picredburner@...> wrote:
Hi,
ehm, before I wrote r296 but I meant r294....
Giampi
--- In TekScopes@..., "miketakeguess" <miketakeguess@> wrote:
Hi all,
I have a TDS684A scope that has a problem on the CRT driver board. I've noticed that R294 is discolored. Can anyone tell me what the value of this component is? It measures 2.7K ohm, and it might be correct because I can see the color band is red-purple-????. The 3rd color band is too discolored to tell what it is. If it's red then the value is correct, but I can't tell due to the burn discoloration.
Can anybody tell me what value R294 should be?
Does anyone have schematics for these CRT driver boards? The TDS520B component service manual only has the B&W display schematic :(
Thanks,
Mike
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Clean or Replace Dodgy AC-GND-DC/CH1-Both-CH2 Switches?
I have seen this on a couple of different instruments lately so I think it might not be that uncommon. I am referring to the gray-levered three position slider switches on 2213's and 2235's (probabl quite a few others as well).
Sometimes when switching from GND to DC the display goes haywire and it correct itself if I tap on the switch.
In another instance I get both channels on the display when switching to one or the other and it also corrects if I tap on the switch.
They don't look very accessible for any kind of cleaning attempt and although it would not be hard to remove and replace them, it will require significant disassembly (and, oh dread -- removal of a lot of knobs!).
Is this worth pursuing or is it, in most peoples opinion, better to just live with it since the scope generally still works well?
Thanks for any input.
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Re: Question on what to do with 4 pallets of scopes...
| Add international shipping option, and you're all set.
I'll take a 485, or 475 for the right amount.
|
--- On Mon, 2/18/13, Chin Siang Lim wrote:
From: Chin Siang Lim
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Question on what to do with 4 pallets of scopes...
To: "TekScopes@..."
Date: Monday, February 18, 2013, 3:00 AM
?
Hi chuck,? Walter of is doing a brisk business clearing his pallets of tek scopes and accessories.? Active marketing does create sales.?
Maybe?you want to consider scrapping scopes??below 100 MHz and all those 5000 series but hold back on those 7000 series and 100 MHz and above scopes. And list those 100 MHz and above scopes for sale ? By showing s few photographs. Thatway some monies are flowing in plus?more to come.?
Selling at scrap plus is attractive for people like us.? Cslim On Monday, February 18, 2013, wrote:
?
Hi Chuck
To be honest if I had four pallets of TEK scopes I would break them up for spares as I don't think anyone is going to buy this stuff especially the tube scopes.
The only buyers for old TEK scopes are hobbyists and collectors and those who want a realtime wide bandwidth CRT scope. Technology has moved on, scopes are digital these days with A-D converters sampling at N GHz and all in a cute little box.
I want a scope that works when I switch it on, not with a power supply that goes bzzt, bzzt, tick, tick because some cap has gone short circuit or some corroded part in a socket isn't making contact.
In short, there really isn't much of a market for old TEK scopes.
They were great in their day but not so good 30 or 40 years later.
Best regards
Chris
--- In TekScopes@..., Chuck Harris wrote:
>
> Here's the thing:
>
> I have 4 pallets of tektronix scopes taking up space in my
> warehouse. One pallet is mostly 7000 series, with a few
> 5000 series mainframes, another is a mix of 7000 and 5000
> series rack mount scopes, with a 564. The third is mostly
> 453's, 454's, and a few odd 434, 464, 465, 466, 475, and 485's.
> And the fourth has a 585A, 545A, and 535A on it... the '45
> and '35 were beautiful before the tube whores stripped them...
> but recycler's don't get the luxury of judging, they just take
> what they get.... ixed in with all of this are several large
> boxes of plugins... nothing sexy, but the usual 7B53A's, and
> 7A16, 7A26, 7D14, kind of stuff...
>
> I love cleaning, fixing, calibrating and restoring scopes
> into good working condition. I have all of the Tek specified
> gear for doing this, but judging by ebay sales, buyers don't
> seem to value that effort at all.
>
> To give you an example. I found a DOA 434 in my stash, and
> because it was so cute, I cleaned it up, fixed a power supply
> problem that stumped the original owner, replaced a tantalum
> on one of the boards, fixed a really nasty trigger problem,
> that was caused by the power supply problem, lubed all of the
> pots, cleaned and lubed the panel switches, and fan, cleaned
> the attenuator contacts, and did a complete calibration. It
> took me a week of evenings to do the work. When it was put on
> ebay, as cleaned, calibrated, and guaranteed, it got a couple
> of $15 offers, and it remains unsold... as does its twin that
> I did in hopes of a better result...
>
> At current US scrap prices, I can get $17 per pound for gold
> plated circuit boards, which is the standard price recyclers
> are giving these days... I work with a recycler, so I am very
> sure of these prices... There is easily 2 pounds of circuit
> boards in a 434 [vertical, horizontal, storage, preamps, and
> power supply are all gold plated]. The 453's and 454's have
> easily 5x more...
>
> Considering how much you folks are yipping and yapping about
> tunnel diodes, and how hard they are to find, I could have
> gotten more than $15 if I simply removed the two diodes in
> this 434, and sold them on ebay. And I would still have a
> good CRT, the aluminum from the chassis and can, the gold
> plated circuit boards, a bunch of special IC's, etc... I have
> gotten $5 just from a knob, and $15 from just selling one CRT
> filter!.... to sell.
>
> What's the answer? I keep hearing about how much you guys
> love Tektronix and their scopes, but when one sells for less
> than a tankful of gas, I have to wonder if it is all just
> dreamy nostalgia talk. When a couple of days worth of cleaning,
> repairing, and calibration is worth less than you would pay
> for a dinner out with someone you don't even like all that
> much... Where is the love?
>
> What's it to be? Do I fix them, or Do I scrap them?
>
> What shall I do with these scopes?
>
> -Chuck Harris
>
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I have three probes that came with the 475. The first one is a Tektronix with what appears to be a 013-071 screw-on tip. The ring of the probe handle shows 10003A, 600V Max, Atten 10X, 10 Megohm, 10 PF. The second one has a number P6053B and a little push-button near the word "Ident." The scope end has a little box on the BNC connector with 10Meg, 12.5pF, 6ft. Also Tektronix. The third one shows Hitachi Denshi Ltd. AT-10AK. There is a trimmer capacitor accessible through a little hole in the connector body. There is also a slide switch on the probe body for X1 and X10. I also have a direct probe that is just a coax with a BNC on one end, and two, clip-on leads on the other end. Do I need anything else for general testing, calibration and trouble-shooting of tube-type amateur radio transceivers? I will stay away from the 800 VDC in the tank circuit. The highest voltage I would see then would be <300 VDC. Richard (Dick) W6CCD --- In TekScopes@..., "Richard" <w6ccd@...> wrote:
I have a 475 scope, but pretty much a beginner in its use. I want to
measure RF frequencies in a ham transceiver that could be as high as 800 VDC, and up to 30 Mhz. My question has to do with the proper type of probe. Is anything special needed to measure RF frequencies that could be generating significant power other than a common probe? Does the scope need protection from high power RF? I want to at least see what is going into the grids of the final amplifier tubes. -----Original Message----- From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf Of johncharlesgord Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:42 AM To: TekScopes@... Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Basic Probe Question Richard, The Tektronix P6009 probe is rated up to 2.1kV peak (1.5kV rms, 4.2kV p-p), but not at full frequency. It is derated to 1000V peak in the 3MHz to 6MHz range, and 200V peak at 30MHz. These ratings are from the Tek website. The case of DC plus superimposed AC is not covered explicitly. There have recently been a number of imported high voltage, high frequency probes on eBay, one I saw was rated 4kV (DC+peak AC) and 100MHz bandwidth ($49.99), but I assume it cannot handle that high an AC voltage at the full 100MHz. --John Gord
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David Hess
David C. Partridge