Hi all, I've picked up a 5S14N. <insert childish bouncing & vocalizations> Not surprisingly, it has dead bias cells in one channel. (Or: surprisingly, it has good bias cells in one channel.) Replacement remains a work in progress but I thought this might be generally useful. The four through-holes for the two cells align to a 0.1" grid and have enough space around then to fit a bit of PTH perfboard to build on. /g/TekScopes/album?id=270597
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Re: FS (Canada) : TDS340A for parts
Sold, on its way to a new home ! Thanks Roy, that was fast !
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Re: Maybe OT: What's in a 'name.'
I use my real name on this forum or my first name and last name initial. But my email ¡°name¡± is ¡°sonodoc¡± with my initials added (¡°sonodoc¡± by itself having been taken on Gmail already). There¡¯s a funny story about this. For years, a friend of mine wondered why I used ¡°sonodoc¡±. She read it as ¡°son o¡¯ doc¡± and thought it odd because she thought ¡°his father isn¡¯t a doctor¡±. I used it because my specialty in radiology is ultrasound, so I used ¡°sono¡± for sound plus ¡°doc¡±. She finally figured it out. Steve H. On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 12:33 Greg Muir via groups.io <big_sky_explorer= [email protected]> wrote: ¡°Captain Corona¡± here. A moniker long gone from past involvement in research in solar physics.
Greg (real name)
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Re: Maybe OT: What's in a 'name.'
I'm reminded of the Dilbert comic strip, also from the 90's, where the same email naming rules were applied to one Francis Ucker. -Roger
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Re: Maybe OT: What's in a 'name.'
¡°Captain Corona¡± here. A moniker long gone from past involvement in research in solar physics.
Greg (real name)
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Re: TLA700 - Logic Analyzer - PCMCIA->CD-ROM interface ...
Hi, Ulf.? ? I have a TLA711 I don't use and a CD-ROM drive connected to it via PCMCIA.? I assume you're in Europe, so shipping from the US would probably be outrageously expensive.? Let me take a look at the brand.? ?I bought the drive on ebay years ago.? ? ? ? ? ?Jim Ford in Southern California?Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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-------- Original message --------From: "Ulf Kylenfall via groups.io" <ulf_r_k@...> Date: 12/6/21 6:45 AM (GMT-08:00) To: [email protected] Subject: [TekScopes] TLA700 - Logic Analyzer - PCMCIA->CD-ROM interface ... Greetings Forum,I have a TLA700, one of the first generation that has noCD-ROM. Restoring or updating the software is thereforea bit cumbersome should it be necessary. (Not to mentionthe obvious lack of low capacity hard drives).I don't think that there is even an IDE port on the custom builtCPU-board inside.Anyone that can point to a reasonably inexpenceivePCMCIA-module with a CD-ROM interface in the other end?Best RegardsUlf KylenfallSM6GXV
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Re: Maybe OT: What's in a 'name.'
Here I use my name, with an Iron Man avatar, just because Iron Man is cool or something.
On Youtube, I go by NFM / Near Far Media, just because thinking of names is hard, it wasn't taken, and was originally going to have more than electronics videos (the 'Near Far' bit was intended to indicate a broad range of content, that didn't last)...
On other forums, I use TERRA Operative. It's a faux Esperanto acronym taken from a Japanese animation around 20 odd years ago when I was younger and dumber and it's just stuck around simply through complacency and general malaise. It's also never already in use anywhere, which is handy.
Sadly none of my names make me smell like a rose...
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Re: Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running.
Tom, I should add I am plenty happy with my 184 at 2.5 ppm the trick was getting it center there that was a bit fiddly. But it has been running perfectly after the tune up. I did not even need to mess with the crystal section just align the ref. It is still performing wonderfully.
Zen
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Zentronics42@... Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 10:44 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running. Specs are always as tight as possible with in reason. If I am affecting a repair I would like the unit to meet factory specs but I am picky in this area. However for this one the owner would like to hook it up to the GPSDO that is in his lab. So I will be looking at making it an external ref unit. Need to dig in to the documentation to see how this was done but that is an option on these. For me personally I will be adding some rb to the lab at some point. But I am building a reasonably specified cal lab at home. Zen -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Tom Lee Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 12:41 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running. Hi Zen, I'm not sure what specs you want to achieve, versus what you need. A 25Hz bang-bang amplitude out of 10MHz is 2.5ppm. Again, for calibrating a scope timebase, that is huge overkill. Even for a lot of telecom applications, 2.5ppm is just fine. If you're just chasing digits because you can, ok; you get to choose how to spend your free time. But if you think that 2.5ppm is a problematic error, I'd be curious as to why. --Cheers Tom -- Prof. Thomas H. Lee Allen Ctr., Rm. 205 350 Jane Stanford Way Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-4070 On 12/5/2021 19:51, Zentronics42@... wrote: Thanks again Tom for the math behind the results. I was getting lost in the decimal places. It looks like on the tight end of the spectrum I can get a 20ppm 1 Mhz crystal for under $5. From a reputable source. I know on the Type 184 because I set the crystal in mine it has a +/- 25Hz swing on 10Mhz due to the heating and cooling of the oven. It is never rock stable and constantly moving. I start with a 20ppm unit and see what some long-term testing will tell me.
Zen
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Tom Lee Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2021 11:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running.
If by "IC crystal" you mean "clock oscillator module", you won't have to worry about accuracy (including drift) unless you want to use the TG501 as a timing reference for tweaking, say, a frequency counter. Any commercially available quartz-crystal controlled oscillator will produce an output within 200ppm of the nominal frequency (and most will do considerably better than that). Add to that a worst-case drift of, say, tens of ppm per degree C. For adjusting scope timebases, that's plenty good enough. Here's the math: CRTs can't be expected to do significantly better than 1% linearity, but let's be generous and pretend you've got one that's 10 times better than that. That's 1000ppm. Any quartz oscillator will have much better accuracy than that, even accounting for drift from temperature and supply pushing. So, any error you see will be due to the scope, not the oscillator.
The -01 conversion is at least electrically straightforward, judging from the schematic. The core of the generator uses a 1MHz reference. You can use whatever you want instead, as long as you add appropriate electronics to produce a 1MHz signal. For a 5MHz oscillator, you use the divide-by-5 capability of a 74LS90. There are also many excellent 10MHz oscillators out there. You may use those, again, with an 'LS90, but now configured to divide by 10.
-- Cheers Tom
-- Prof. Thomas H. Lee Allen Ctr., Rm. 205 350 Jane Stanford Way Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-4070
On 12/4/2021 19:45, Zentronics42@... wrote:
Well it turns out it was a cam switch issue. The unit I have been working on now has a brain. But it is still in need of a heart. I get good time marks on all ranges now. Is there any information on the -01 conversion? I have the service manual but the board lay out is very bad in that one area. Updating to a 5Mhz reference might be the way to go. Also the 1Mhz IC crystals do I need to worry about drift on those much or is this a moot point?
Thanks for the info Harvey, It looks like the only dead IC in the unit was the main REF. This one is confirmed dead as the outputs of 2 of the gates are stuck high and wont switch even with suitable inputs.
Zen
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Harvey White Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2021 11:04 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running.
These are straight TTL ICs. The logic 1 level is roughly 4 volts or so. All that a logic 1 needs to do is back bias an (equivalent) input diode. Look at DTL logic (old!) to find an equivalent circuit, and then start replacing the input diodes with (typically) a multiple emitter transistor for a nand gate.
The 16 ma for a chip is also not too out of line, in my experience.
What I'd be looking for would be either slow switching times at the chip outputs or significantly lower 1 output voltages, or higher than normal 0 output levels.
Should two TTL outputs be shorted (that are not open collector), bad output levels are to be expected even from good chips.
Note: the output high driver of a TTL chip is effectively an emitter follower with the collector and base resistor going to VCC. There's a limit to what the transistor can pull up, so the 1 output is rated at about 400 ua source, and the standard TTL output (a saturating transistor to ground) is typically 16 ma. Since the output sinking transistor is driven (more or less) by the full VCC through an effective resistor, it gets plenty of base drive.
Harvey
On 12/4/2021 9:40 AM, Zentronics42@... wrote:
Shaun, Just tried to order the Tauntek but the boards are sold out. I was informed that there will be a delay in getting new boards so. But no worries I am on the waiting list. I will take a closer look at the drum switch. I would imagine it is a cam switch or something in the IC's that the cam is switching. I tested U330 but totally unloaded the single IC is drawing about 16 ma which seems a touch high to me. And when I wire a gate to get a logic level flip the (high) output is only 4Vdc on some of the gates and this is with the IC out of the unit on a breadboard. So it cant get to 5V totally unloaded. VCC is 5.2 to match the TG 5V rail. This is why I am thinking the IC is marginal. Though I could also be asking to much from an IC of this vintage.
Zen
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Shaun M Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2021 9:23 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running.
Zen,
I had a similar problem (double time marks) on a TG501 unit several months ago. It turned out that one finger of the drum switch assembly was not opening when it should have due to mechanical damage. I found the problem using the switch matrix in the SM which allowed me to figure out the proper position of each switch finger. The matrix is located on the ¡°Display and Switch Details¡± page of the schematic section in the SM.
On the subject of vintage IC testing: The Tauntek tester lets you see pin voltages and overall current for a given chip as well as the usual logic testing.
Shaun M
|
Re: Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running.
Specs are always as tight as possible with in reason. If I am affecting a repair I would like the unit to meet factory specs but I am picky in this area. However for this one the owner would like to hook it up to the GPSDO that is in his lab. So I will be looking at making it an external ref unit. Need to dig in to the documentation to see how this was done but that is an option on these.
For me personally I will be adding some rb to the lab at some point. But I am building a reasonably specified cal lab at home.
Zen
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Tom Lee Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 12:41 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running. Hi Zen, I'm not sure what specs you want to achieve, versus what you need. A 25Hz bang-bang amplitude out of 10MHz is 2.5ppm. Again, for calibrating a scope timebase, that is huge overkill. Even for a lot of telecom applications, 2.5ppm is just fine. If you're just chasing digits because you can, ok; you get to choose how to spend your free time. But if you think that 2.5ppm is a problematic error, I'd be curious as to why. --Cheers Tom -- Prof. Thomas H. Lee Allen Ctr., Rm. 205 350 Jane Stanford Way Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-4070 On 12/5/2021 19:51, Zentronics42@... wrote: Thanks again Tom for the math behind the results. I was getting lost in the decimal places. It looks like on the tight end of the spectrum I can get a 20ppm 1 Mhz crystal for under $5. From a reputable source. I know on the Type 184 because I set the crystal in mine it has a +/- 25Hz swing on 10Mhz due to the heating and cooling of the oven. It is never rock stable and constantly moving. I start with a 20ppm unit and see what some long-term testing will tell me.
Zen
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Tom Lee Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2021 11:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running.
If by "IC crystal" you mean "clock oscillator module", you won't have to worry about accuracy (including drift) unless you want to use the TG501 as a timing reference for tweaking, say, a frequency counter. Any commercially available quartz-crystal controlled oscillator will produce an output within 200ppm of the nominal frequency (and most will do considerably better than that). Add to that a worst-case drift of, say, tens of ppm per degree C. For adjusting scope timebases, that's plenty good enough. Here's the math: CRTs can't be expected to do significantly better than 1% linearity, but let's be generous and pretend you've got one that's 10 times better than that. That's 1000ppm. Any quartz oscillator will have much better accuracy than that, even accounting for drift from temperature and supply pushing. So, any error you see will be due to the scope, not the oscillator.
The -01 conversion is at least electrically straightforward, judging from the schematic. The core of the generator uses a 1MHz reference. You can use whatever you want instead, as long as you add appropriate electronics to produce a 1MHz signal. For a 5MHz oscillator, you use the divide-by-5 capability of a 74LS90. There are also many excellent 10MHz oscillators out there. You may use those, again, with an 'LS90, but now configured to divide by 10.
-- Cheers Tom
-- Prof. Thomas H. Lee Allen Ctr., Rm. 205 350 Jane Stanford Way Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-4070
On 12/4/2021 19:45, Zentronics42@... wrote:
Well it turns out it was a cam switch issue. The unit I have been working on now has a brain. But it is still in need of a heart. I get good time marks on all ranges now. Is there any information on the -01 conversion? I have the service manual but the board lay out is very bad in that one area. Updating to a 5Mhz reference might be the way to go. Also the 1Mhz IC crystals do I need to worry about drift on those much or is this a moot point?
Thanks for the info Harvey, It looks like the only dead IC in the unit was the main REF. This one is confirmed dead as the outputs of 2 of the gates are stuck high and wont switch even with suitable inputs.
Zen
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Harvey White Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2021 11:04 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running.
These are straight TTL ICs. The logic 1 level is roughly 4 volts or so. All that a logic 1 needs to do is back bias an (equivalent) input diode. Look at DTL logic (old!) to find an equivalent circuit, and then start replacing the input diodes with (typically) a multiple emitter transistor for a nand gate.
The 16 ma for a chip is also not too out of line, in my experience.
What I'd be looking for would be either slow switching times at the chip outputs or significantly lower 1 output voltages, or higher than normal 0 output levels.
Should two TTL outputs be shorted (that are not open collector), bad output levels are to be expected even from good chips.
Note: the output high driver of a TTL chip is effectively an emitter follower with the collector and base resistor going to VCC. There's a limit to what the transistor can pull up, so the 1 output is rated at about 400 ua source, and the standard TTL output (a saturating transistor to ground) is typically 16 ma. Since the output sinking transistor is driven (more or less) by the full VCC through an effective resistor, it gets plenty of base drive.
Harvey
On 12/4/2021 9:40 AM, Zentronics42@... wrote:
Shaun, Just tried to order the Tauntek but the boards are sold out. I was informed that there will be a delay in getting new boards so. But no worries I am on the waiting list. I will take a closer look at the drum switch. I would imagine it is a cam switch or something in the IC's that the cam is switching. I tested U330 but totally unloaded the single IC is drawing about 16 ma which seems a touch high to me. And when I wire a gate to get a logic level flip the (high) output is only 4Vdc on some of the gates and this is with the IC out of the unit on a breadboard. So it cant get to 5V totally unloaded. VCC is 5.2 to match the TG 5V rail. This is why I am thinking the IC is marginal. Though I could also be asking to much from an IC of this vintage.
Zen
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Shaun M Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2021 9:23 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running.
Zen,
I had a similar problem (double time marks) on a TG501 unit several months ago. It turned out that one finger of the drum switch assembly was not opening when it should have due to mechanical damage. I found the problem using the switch matrix in the SM which allowed me to figure out the proper position of each switch finger. The matrix is located on the ¡°Display and Switch Details¡± page of the schematic section in the SM.
On the subject of vintage IC testing: The Tauntek tester lets you see pin voltages and overall current for a given chip as well as the usual logic testing.
Shaun M
|
TLA700 - Logic Analyzer - PCMCIA->CD-ROM interface ...
Greetings Forum,
I have a TLA700, one of the first generation that has no CD-ROM. Restoring or updating the software is therefore a bit cumbersome should it be necessary. (Not to mention the obvious lack of low capacity hard drives).
I don't think that there is even an IDE port on the custom built CPU-board inside.
Anyone that can point to a reasonably inexpenceive PCMCIA-module with a CD-ROM interface in the other end?
Best Regards
Ulf Kylenfall SM6GXV
|
Re: Maybe OT: What's in a 'name.'
"What's in a name? A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"
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On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 at 03:56, <Zentronics42@...> wrote: For me more people in the world know me as Zenwizard than anything else. It is a moniker that I have had for more than a few decades at this point and will be stuck with for a while yet. For those that know me it was shortened to Zen sense I am called that sometimes in real life as well. For what it is worth I am an Eric as well.
Zen/Eric
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Harvey White Sent: Sunday, December 5, 2021 9:24 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Maybe OT: What's in a 'name.'
You note that I use my name. The email address has to do with my website and the Welsh (IIRC) word for fox.
Harvey
On 12/5/2021 8:33 PM, Glydeck via groups.io wrote:
My name/handle ¡®glydeck¡¯ was assigned to me by Time Warner Corporate in the early 90s when everything was limited to eight characters. I just kept it. Full name is George Lydecker.
On Dec 5, 2021, at 4:36 PM, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
?Angry Scottsman (or variations thereof).
Harvey
On 12/5/2021 7:31 PM, Roy Thistle wrote: Hi All: This is not really about Tektronix scopes... but, it's about TekScopes. I've been thinking about a thread, on the HP forum, a while back...
about user-names... or the name we use in posts, or in the signature line.
As goofy as it is... I've always used my real name... well... because
that's what we always did.
Lots of people posting still do... but, I see evermore posts with
names as punctuation characters, Marvel comic book characters, and other obvious aliases and pseudonyms.
Anyway, I'm sure these monikers are not to hide people's identities...
but to protect their identities... and there really cool sounding too: right?
So I'm wondering... can I call myself... Knorbutron, or Cphinktr,
or... well any other name I've always felt was undignified.
Best regards and wishes.
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Re: Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running.
Hi Zen,
I'm not sure what specs you want to achieve, versus what you need. A 25Hz bang-bang amplitude out of 10MHz is 2.5ppm. Again, for calibrating a scope timebase, that is huge overkill. Even for a lot of telecom applications, 2.5ppm is just fine. If you're just chasing digits because you can, ok; you get to choose how to spend your free time. But if you think that 2.5ppm is a problematic error, I'd be curious as to why.
--Cheers Tom
-- Prof. Thomas H. Lee Allen Ctr., Rm. 205 350 Jane Stanford Way Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-4070
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 12/5/2021 19:51, Zentronics42@... wrote: Thanks again Tom for the math behind the results. I was getting lost in the decimal places. It looks like on the tight end of the spectrum I can get a 20ppm 1 Mhz crystal for under $5. From a reputable source. I know on the Type 184 because I set the crystal in mine it has a +/- 25Hz swing on 10Mhz due to the heating and cooling of the oven. It is never rock stable and constantly moving. I start with a 20ppm unit and see what some long-term testing will tell me.
Zen
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Tom Lee Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2021 11:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running.
If by "IC crystal" you mean "clock oscillator module", you won't have to worry about accuracy (including drift) unless you want to use the TG501 as a timing reference for tweaking, say, a frequency counter. Any commercially available quartz-crystal controlled oscillator will produce an output within 200ppm of the nominal frequency (and most will do considerably better than that). Add to that a worst-case drift of, say, tens of ppm per degree C. For adjusting scope timebases, that's plenty good enough. Here's the math: CRTs can't be expected to do significantly better than 1% linearity, but let's be generous and pretend you've got one that's 10 times better than that. That's 1000ppm. Any quartz oscillator will have much better accuracy than that, even accounting for drift from temperature and supply pushing. So, any error you see will be due to the scope, not the oscillator.
The -01 conversion is at least electrically straightforward, judging from the schematic. The core of the generator uses a 1MHz reference. You can use whatever you want instead, as long as you add appropriate electronics to produce a 1MHz signal. For a 5MHz oscillator, you use the divide-by-5 capability of a 74LS90. There are also many excellent 10MHz oscillators out there. You may use those, again, with an 'LS90, but now configured to divide by 10.
-- Cheers Tom
-- Prof. Thomas H. Lee Allen Ctr., Rm. 205 350 Jane Stanford Way Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-4070
On 12/4/2021 19:45, Zentronics42@... wrote:
Well it turns out it was a cam switch issue. The unit I have been working on now has a brain. But it is still in need of a heart. I get good time marks on all ranges now. Is there any information on the -01 conversion? I have the service manual but the board lay out is very bad in that one area. Updating to a 5Mhz reference might be the way to go. Also the 1Mhz IC crystals do I need to worry about drift on those much or is this a moot point?
Thanks for the info Harvey, It looks like the only dead IC in the unit was the main REF. This one is confirmed dead as the outputs of 2 of the gates are stuck high and wont switch even with suitable inputs.
Zen
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Harvey White Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2021 11:04 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running.
These are straight TTL ICs. The logic 1 level is roughly 4 volts or so. All that a logic 1 needs to do is back bias an (equivalent) input diode. Look at DTL logic (old!) to find an equivalent circuit, and then start replacing the input diodes with (typically) a multiple emitter transistor for a nand gate.
The 16 ma for a chip is also not too out of line, in my experience.
What I'd be looking for would be either slow switching times at the chip outputs or significantly lower 1 output voltages, or higher than normal 0 output levels.
Should two TTL outputs be shorted (that are not open collector), bad output levels are to be expected even from good chips.
Note: the output high driver of a TTL chip is effectively an emitter follower with the collector and base resistor going to VCC. There's a limit to what the transistor can pull up, so the 1 output is rated at about 400 ua source, and the standard TTL output (a saturating transistor to ground) is typically 16 ma. Since the output sinking transistor is driven (more or less) by the full VCC through an effective resistor, it gets plenty of base drive.
Harvey
On 12/4/2021 9:40 AM, Zentronics42@... wrote:
Shaun, Just tried to order the Tauntek but the boards are sold out. I was informed that there will be a delay in getting new boards so. But no worries I am on the waiting list. I will take a closer look at the drum switch. I would imagine it is a cam switch or something in the IC's that the cam is switching. I tested U330 but totally unloaded the single IC is drawing about 16 ma which seems a touch high to me. And when I wire a gate to get a logic level flip the (high) output is only 4Vdc on some of the gates and this is with the IC out of the unit on a breadboard. So it cant get to 5V totally unloaded. VCC is 5.2 to match the TG 5V rail. This is why I am thinking the IC is marginal. Though I could also be asking to much from an IC of this vintage.
Zen
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Shaun M Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2021 9:23 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running.
Zen,
I had a similar problem (double time marks) on a TG501 unit several months ago. It turned out that one finger of the drum switch assembly was not opening when it should have due to mechanical damage. I found the problem using the switch matrix in the SM which allowed me to figure out the proper position of each switch finger. The matrix is located on the ¡°Display and Switch Details¡± page of the schematic section in the SM.
On the subject of vintage IC testing: The Tauntek tester lets you see pin voltages and overall current for a given chip as well as the usual logic testing.
Shaun M
|
Re: Maybe OT: What's in a 'name.'
For me more people in the world know me as Zenwizard than anything else. It is a moniker that I have had for more than a few decades at this point and will be stuck with for a while yet. For those that know me it was shortened to Zen sense I am called that sometimes in real life as well. For what it is worth I am an Eric as well.
Zen/Eric
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Harvey White Sent: Sunday, December 5, 2021 9:24 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Maybe OT: What's in a 'name.' You note that I use my name. The email address has to do with my website and the Welsh (IIRC) word for fox. Harvey On 12/5/2021 8:33 PM, Glydeck via groups.io wrote: My name/handle ¡®glydeck¡¯ was assigned to me by Time Warner Corporate in the early 90s when everything was limited to eight characters. I just kept it. Full name is George Lydecker.
On Dec 5, 2021, at 4:36 PM, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
?Angry Scottsman (or variations thereof).
Harvey
On 12/5/2021 7:31 PM, Roy Thistle wrote: Hi All: This is not really about Tektronix scopes... but, it's about TekScopes. I've been thinking about a thread, on the HP forum, a while back... about user-names... or the name we use in posts, or in the signature line. As goofy as it is... I've always used my real name... well... because that's what we always did. Lots of people posting still do... but, I see evermore posts with names as punctuation characters, Marvel comic book characters, and other obvious aliases and pseudonyms. Anyway, I'm sure these monikers are not to hide people's identities... but to protect their identities... and there really cool sounding too: right? So I'm wondering... can I call myself... Knorbutron, or Cphinktr, or... well any other name I've always felt was undignified.
Best regards and wishes.
|
Re: Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running.
Thanks again Tom for the math behind the results. I was getting lost in the decimal places. It looks like on the tight end of the spectrum I can get a 20ppm 1 Mhz crystal for under $5. From a reputable source. I know on the Type 184 because I set the crystal in mine it has a +/- 25Hz swing on 10Mhz due to the heating and cooling of the oven. It is never rock stable and constantly moving. I start with a 20ppm unit and see what some long-term testing will tell me.
Zen
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Tom Lee Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2021 11:12 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running. If by "IC crystal" you mean "clock oscillator module", you won't have to worry about accuracy (including drift) unless you want to use the TG501 as a timing reference for tweaking, say, a frequency counter. Any commercially available quartz-crystal controlled oscillator will produce an output within 200ppm of the nominal frequency (and most will do considerably better than that). Add to that a worst-case drift of, say, tens of ppm per degree C. For adjusting scope timebases, that's plenty good enough. Here's the math: CRTs can't be expected to do significantly better than 1% linearity, but let's be generous and pretend you've got one that's 10 times better than that. That's 1000ppm. Any quartz oscillator will have much better accuracy than that, even accounting for drift from temperature and supply pushing. So, any error you see will be due to the scope, not the oscillator. The -01 conversion is at least electrically straightforward, judging from the schematic. The core of the generator uses a 1MHz reference. You can use whatever you want instead, as long as you add appropriate electronics to produce a 1MHz signal. For a 5MHz oscillator, you use the divide-by-5 capability of a 74LS90. There are also many excellent 10MHz oscillators out there. You may use those, again, with an 'LS90, but now configured to divide by 10. -- Cheers Tom -- Prof. Thomas H. Lee Allen Ctr., Rm. 205 350 Jane Stanford Way Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-4070 On 12/4/2021 19:45, Zentronics42@... wrote: Well it turns out it was a cam switch issue. The unit I have been working on now has a brain. But it is still in need of a heart. I get good time marks on all ranges now. Is there any information on the -01 conversion? I have the service manual but the board lay out is very bad in that one area. Updating to a 5Mhz reference might be the way to go. Also the 1Mhz IC crystals do I need to worry about drift on those much or is this a moot point?
Thanks for the info Harvey, It looks like the only dead IC in the unit was the main REF. This one is confirmed dead as the outputs of 2 of the gates are stuck high and wont switch even with suitable inputs.
Zen
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Harvey White Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2021 11:04 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running.
These are straight TTL ICs. The logic 1 level is roughly 4 volts or so. All that a logic 1 needs to do is back bias an (equivalent) input diode. Look at DTL logic (old!) to find an equivalent circuit, and then start replacing the input diodes with (typically) a multiple emitter transistor for a nand gate.
The 16 ma for a chip is also not too out of line, in my experience.
What I'd be looking for would be either slow switching times at the chip outputs or significantly lower 1 output voltages, or higher than normal 0 output levels.
Should two TTL outputs be shorted (that are not open collector), bad output levels are to be expected even from good chips.
Note: the output high driver of a TTL chip is effectively an emitter follower with the collector and base resistor going to VCC. There's a limit to what the transistor can pull up, so the 1 output is rated at about 400 ua source, and the standard TTL output (a saturating transistor to ground) is typically 16 ma. Since the output sinking transistor is driven (more or less) by the full VCC through an effective resistor, it gets plenty of base drive.
Harvey
On 12/4/2021 9:40 AM, Zentronics42@... wrote:
Shaun, Just tried to order the Tauntek but the boards are sold out. I was informed that there will be a delay in getting new boards so. But no worries I am on the waiting list. I will take a closer look at the drum switch. I would imagine it is a cam switch or something in the IC's that the cam is switching. I tested U330 but totally unloaded the single IC is drawing about 16 ma which seems a touch high to me. And when I wire a gate to get a logic level flip the (high) output is only 4Vdc on some of the gates and this is with the IC out of the unit on a breadboard. So it cant get to 5V totally unloaded. VCC is 5.2 to match the TG 5V rail. This is why I am thinking the IC is marginal. Though I could also be asking to much from an IC of this vintage.
Zen
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Shaun M Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2021 9:23 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running.
Zen,
I had a similar problem (double time marks) on a TG501 unit several months ago. It turned out that one finger of the drum switch assembly was not opening when it should have due to mechanical damage. I found the problem using the switch matrix in the SM which allowed me to figure out the proper position of each switch finger. The matrix is located on the ¡°Display and Switch Details¡± page of the schematic section in the SM.
On the subject of vintage IC testing: The Tauntek tester lets you see pin voltages and overall current for a given chip as well as the usual logic testing.
Shaun M
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Re: Maybe OT: What's in a 'name.'
You note that I use my name.? The email address has to do with my website and the Welsh (IIRC) word for fox.
Harvey
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On 12/5/2021 8:33 PM, Glydeck via groups.io wrote: My name/handle ¡®glydeck¡¯ was assigned to me by Time Warner Corporate in the early 90s when everything was limited to eight characters. I just kept it. Full name is George Lydecker.
On Dec 5, 2021, at 4:36 PM, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
?Angry Scottsman (or variations thereof).
Harvey
On 12/5/2021 7:31 PM, Roy Thistle wrote: Hi All: This is not really about Tektronix scopes... but, it's about TekScopes. I've been thinking about a thread, on the HP forum, a while back... about user-names... or the name we use in posts, or in the signature line. As goofy as it is... I've always used my real name... well... because that's what we always did. Lots of people posting still do... but, I see evermore posts with names as punctuation characters, Marvel comic book characters, and other obvious aliases and pseudonyms. Anyway, I'm sure these monikers are not to hide people's identities... but to protect their identities... and there really cool sounding too: right? So I'm wondering... can I call myself... Knorbutron, or Cphinktr, or... well any other name I've always felt was undignified.
Best regards and wishes.
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Re: Maybe OT: What's in a 'name.'
My name/handle ¡®glydeck¡¯ was assigned to me by Time Warner Corporate in the early 90s when everything was limited to eight characters. I just kept it. Full name is George Lydecker.
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On Dec 5, 2021, at 4:36 PM, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
?Angry Scottsman (or variations thereof).
Harvey
On 12/5/2021 7:31 PM, Roy Thistle wrote: Hi All: This is not really about Tektronix scopes... but, it's about TekScopes. I've been thinking about a thread, on the HP forum, a while back... about user-names... or the name we use in posts, or in the signature line. As goofy as it is... I've always used my real name... well... because that's what we always did. Lots of people posting still do... but, I see evermore posts with names as punctuation characters, Marvel comic book characters, and other obvious aliases and pseudonyms. Anyway, I'm sure these monikers are not to hide people's identities... but to protect their identities... and there really cool sounding too: right? So I'm wondering... can I call myself... Knorbutron, or Cphinktr, or... well any other name I've always felt was undignified.
Best regards and wishes.
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Re: Maybe OT: What's in a 'name.'
Angry Scottsman (or variations thereof).
Harvey
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On 12/5/2021 7:31 PM, Roy Thistle wrote: Hi All: This is not really about Tektronix scopes... but, it's about TekScopes. I've been thinking about a thread, on the HP forum, a while back... about user-names... or the name we use in posts, or in the signature line. As goofy as it is... I've always used my real name... well... because that's what we always did. Lots of people posting still do... but, I see evermore posts with names as punctuation characters, Marvel comic book characters, and other obvious aliases and pseudonyms. Anyway, I'm sure these monikers are not to hide people's identities... but to protect their identities... and there really cool sounding too: right? So I'm wondering... can I call myself... Knorbutron, or Cphinktr, or... well any other name I've always felt was undignified.
Best regards and wishes.
|
Maybe OT: What's in a 'name.'
Hi All: This is not really about Tektronix scopes... but, it's about TekScopes. I've been thinking about a thread, on the HP forum, a while back... about user-names... or the name we use in posts, or in the signature line. As goofy as it is... I've always used my real name... well... because that's what we always did. Lots of people posting still do... but, I see evermore posts with names as punctuation characters, Marvel comic book characters, and other obvious aliases and pseudonyms. Anyway, I'm sure these monikers are not to hide people's identities... but to protect their identities... and there really cool sounding too: right? So I'm wondering... can I call myself... Knorbutron, or Cphinktr, or... well any other name I've always felt was undignified.
Best regards and wishes.
-- Roy Thistle
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Re: Repairing a 148-0034-00 Relay
Just to follow up, I was able to take one strand of silver-plated wire from a piece of stranded small-gauge wire, wrap it around the pin to encase the wires to the coil a bit, a very quick soldering, and the relay works fine. I used some CA to reattach the plastic enclosure.
Touchy, but it can be done if that's the problem with the relay.
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry" <n4buq@...> To: "tekscopes" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 5:12:11 PM Subject: Repairing a 148-0034-00 Relay After getting my 7B50 to produce a sweep, I noticed that the x10 magnification function isn't working and traced that to a bad K780 relay (P/N 148-0034-00). I noticed the TekWiki page for the various relays has links for some repair techniques and, since my relay's coil checked open circuit, I decided to open it up.
Fortunately, the wires are intact and it appears that because those were wrapped around the pins and, possibly, micro-welded(?), enough resistance has built up over time between the wire and pins such that there's not a good contact anymore. I can get the relay to function if I apply 15VDC directly to the wires at the pins but that doesn't work if I just touch the pins where they protrude through the bottom of the relay.
I'm wondering if I can wrap a fine copper wire around the existing wire/pin, secure it as snugly as I can get it, and then, perhaps a very light soldering job might be enough to repair this.
Anyone else tried to repair these and, if so, any good advice as to how to proceed? That's some extremely fine wire and, apparently, very easily broken so I'm wanting to tread as lightly as possible.
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
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Re: Sick TG501 Main 1Mhz ref not running.
One slight note on the LS90.? It's a divide by 2 and a divide by 5.? If you want a symmetric 1 Mhz, then do the divide by 5 then feed that to the divide by 2.? I'd do that (in this case) just because.
Also note that the power and ground pins are not 14 and 7.
Harvey
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On 12/4/2021 11:11 PM, Tom Lee wrote: If by "IC crystal" you mean "clock oscillator module", you won't have to worry about accuracy (including drift) unless you want to use the TG501 as a timing reference for tweaking, say, a frequency counter. Any commercially available quartz-crystal controlled oscillator will produce an output within 200ppm of the nominal frequency (and most will do considerably better than that). Add to that a worst-case drift of, say, tens of ppm per degree C. For adjusting scope timebases, that's plenty good enough. Here's the math: CRTs can't be expected to do significantly better than 1% linearity, but let's be generous and pretend you've got one that's 10 times better than that. That's 1000ppm. Any quartz oscillator will have much better accuracy than that, even accounting for drift from temperature and supply pushing. So, any error you see will be due to the scope, not the oscillator.
The -01 conversion is at least electrically straightforward, judging from the schematic. The core of the generator uses a 1MHz reference. You can use whatever you want instead, as long as you add appropriate electronics to produce a 1MHz signal. For a 5MHz oscillator, you use the divide-by-5 capability of a 74LS90. There are also many excellent 10MHz oscillators out there. You may use those, again, with an 'LS90, but now configured to divide by 10.
-- Cheers Tom
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