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Re: 7603 Beam Sharpness
Many photos of scopes in general have the intensity turned up so that the traces are easily visible, which makes the traces fatter.? That said, the 7603 when adjusted, will have nice traces, but because of the expansion mesh, will never have the razor thin lines of a 500 series scope.? (the 547 for example)? My T912 has really fat traces, but is still usable.
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-Dave On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 12:18:37 PM PDT, Jason A. via Groups.Io <jagee228@...> wrote:
Hello All, Curiosity question for the group.? I've been contemplating trying to find a nice 7603.? I've looked online at the google images of traces and readouts on the screens of the 7603, however most of the traces I see online look fairly blurry.? I know a lot of these scopes put a plastic filter/implosion shield in front of the actual CRT face and those can eventually get a lot of scratches and the like on them, making everything behind them look out of focus.? I am guessing there are plenty of people on the forums that have a 7603 and can offer their opinions on it as a general purpose 7000 series scope, including commenting on the apparent blurriness I've seen on the online images as well as any potential pitfalls with them.? Other recommendations also welcomed. Thanks all and best regards, Jason |
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Re: 7603 Beam Sharpness
John Griessen
On 8/21/19 2:18 PM, Jason A. via Groups.Io wrote:
I am guessing there are plenty of people on the forums that have a 7603 and can offer their opinions on it as a general purpose 7000 series scope, including commenting on the apparent blurriness I've seen on the online images as well as any potential pitfalls with them.They're not like an old 564 for sharp traces. But 7854, 7844, 7603 is as good as 2230 and such and plenty usable. |
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7603 Beam Sharpness
Hello All,
Curiosity question for the group. I've been contemplating trying to find a nice 7603. I've looked online at the google images of traces and readouts on the screens of the 7603, however most of the traces I see online look fairly blurry. I know a lot of these scopes put a plastic filter/implosion shield in front of the actual CRT face and those can eventually get a lot of scratches and the like on them, making everything behind them look out of focus. I am guessing there are plenty of people on the forums that have a 7603 and can offer their opinions on it as a general purpose 7000 series scope, including commenting on the apparent blurriness I've seen on the online images as well as any potential pitfalls with them. Other recommendations also welcomed. Thanks all and best regards, Jason |
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Re: Tek 576 chatters
Bob Koller
I suspect that the problem you originally mentioned is a result of the 100V being loaded by the lossy HV transformer, the symptoms are classic. These transformers are difficult to find, as so many failed.
If your CRT is bright, and the balance of the instrument is in at least good condition, it is worth finding a later s/n unit for parts, or making one out of two if you find a later one with a poor CRT. The 577 is an option, they are much smaller and lighter, lower peak power, but better small current functionality. The storage version may appeal to some, but the storage CRT can be a problem if you get one with severe differential aging of the storage target, or weak flood guns. The writing gun may still be quite usable. Personally, I have and use the 576, I guess because I have bought, sold and serviced at least 100 of them. |
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Re: Tek 576 chatters
peter bunge
Thanks Bob and Chuck. Unfortunately my 576 has a brown HV transformer, I
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just looked. I also checked C759 in the 5v power supply and I replaced it a few years ago. My repair log shows how I adapted a more modern capacitor to the metal can mounting if anyone is interested. I continued with the Performance/Calibration steps without adjusting anything. When I got to p5-13 step 14 I could not see the display shown in Fig5-6 and realized this procedure was not going to be of any further help. I set the switches to look at an NPN 2N3565 at low current and curves flashed occasionally on the screen. Turning the Number of Steps knob and tapping it changed the steps but did not fix the problem. I took to tapping inside with an insulated rod and found U22 on the Step Gen board was really sensitive. Re-seating it in the (cheap) socket fixed the problem and now I get rock solid curves from 1 to 10 as selected. It has been running for over an hour without problems but I am concerned about the HV transformer. Are these HV transformers available anywhere? If it fails completely should I be looking at the newer 577? I saw someone started a thread about a comparison but it went nowhere. Is the 577 better than the 576? Now I still have the problem with the TDS 644A power supply on the other thread. I would love to hear comments on this one. Is there a parts list available that shows the correct transistor for the standby power supply? Why would a standby power supply run off 408V? I see there are good comments from Siggi. I will reply on that thread. On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 11:56 AM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:
Yes, that is a consideration that I try not to think about. |
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Re: Will this capacitor fail?
Thanks for informing me C744 is a 170uF capacitor, I believe what happened I accidentally interpreted the u in uF as another zero and thought it was 1700uF, certainly made it easier finding a replacement capacitor. I am also replacing the insulator pads for U722 U732 Q788 Q766
- I think this thermal pad should work, bought it in a sheet so I can cut the pieces I want to fit. |
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Re: Tek 576 chatters
Chuck Harris
Yes, that is a consideration that I try not to think about.
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I guess I had better get my transformer business back in order this winter. -Chuck Harris Bob Koller via Groups.Io wrote: It may have a PSU problem as Chuck described. |
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Re: 7B15, 7B10 questions
Chuck Harris
Not an assertion I would make!
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I had one 7104 that had a permanently etched reverse image of a square wave and a triangle wave... obviously from a function generator. I know that there is a large contingent of folks that own these scopes, that have no real work for them, but seriously, how long could you stand to view a square wave and a triangle wave on your 7104's screen? It boggles the imagination.... well mine anyway... A more likely explanation is that the ebay seller had the function generator traces on the screen, really really bright because that is what 7104's are known for, and burned an image in the screen while preparing for, and taking a photograph... All staying within the protective timers very limited protection. The amber limited viewing LED comes on whenever the image is about what one would consider normal brightness for a 7904. You have to have a pretty dim environment to be able to run a 7104 comfortably, never activating that warning. The 2467B does a much better job of protecting the MCP. It never allows the readout to be on the screen continuously without a trace being on the screen, without putting the readout into flicker mode. It moves the readout around periodically to wear level the readout area of the MCP. It limits the trace intensity to a perceived value of screen brightness by strobing the intensity of the beam hitting the MCP. It leaves the MCP at its lowest amplification setting when the Intensity control is set to view low performance images, only raising it when the Intensity control is turned up near full... stuff like that.... In addition to the timers. -Chuck Harris Roy Thistle wrote: On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Dennis Tillman W7PF wrote:Hi Dennis: |
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Re: TDS 644A Power Supply problem
Hey Peter,
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I repaired one of those from a TDS684A which had failed in an interesting mode. The TVSes had become uni-directional, and so current was flowing through the TVSes, T3 and Q9 continuously. Out of circuit they measured as a diode in one direction, but as an open in the other (I didn't have any way to measure their threshold voltage). It seems only RT4/5 were limiting the current/damage at that point. I couldn't figure out why the TVSes had failed, but apparently it's not uncommon for them to do so. I suspect you'll find a very close schematic on H?kan's download page: . Looking at the schematic, it occurs to me that CR7 & C15 make a snubber, whereas the TVSen are clamps. If the snubber fails, I'd expect the TVSes and the switching transistor to suffer higher transients, so maybe that's one place to look. R21 is also perhaps suspect, as it will presumably discharge C15 between cycles. Good luck, Siggi On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 3:33 AM peter bunge <bunge.pjp@...> wrote:
A year ago I repaired a TDS 644A power supply.with overheated VR4 and VR5 |
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Re: Tek 576 chatters
Bob Koller
It may have a PSU problem as Chuck described.
However, if the 100V supply is being loaded, this sounds like the CRT HV transformer problem typical of the older brown encapsulated transformer design. Coupled with your comment of "However turning it off and on it ran for a few minutes then did the same thing" If your CRT HV transformer is the black silicone encapsulated type, you can disregard, but if not, that would be my very strong suspicion. |
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Re: Thoughts on TDS744A
Mark Schoonover
I got 0.07 USD for a class action lawsuit on bad motherboard capacitors
back in the day. Probably related to many different products. 73! Mark KA6WKE Website: Live Stream: YouTube Live!: Author: 4NEC2 The Definitive Guide EMail List:: [email protected] On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 4:27 AM greenboxmaven via Groups.Io <ka2ivy= [email protected]> wrote: The condensers you mention were a worldwide scourge. Many millions of |
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Re: 7B15, 7B10 questions
Roy,
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I got very lucky a couple weeks ago and scored a basically pristine 7104 and it's intended plugin complement at a .gov surplus auction for a very good price (all of the above for $125). It is obviously well cared for, as the crt is crisp, bright, with the only signs of any problems being around the readouts, which are a bit dim compared to the traces (which isn't unexpected I suppose). I've found it is very easy to get a perfectly usable trace for all but the fastest signals at very low brightness levels...low enough that the limited view circuit either isn't kicking in or it's in the 20 minute timeout region (beam current above 0.2 microamps, but less 2 microamps) than rather than 2 minutes (2 microamps or above). It's truly a tour de force for Tektronix analog scope engineering; beautifully crafted inside and out, with incredible performance. Sean On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 06:55 AM, Roy Thistle wrote:
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Re: Tek 576 chatters
Chuck Harris
I don't know what shape your 576 is in, but I have found
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many with bad 5V filter capacitors. They suddenly go open circuit. They are the Mallory FP style, and the internal aluminum strip that connects to the solder lugs etches open circuit. The usual symptom is the 576 goes completely goofy. The relays chatter, the screen goes away, bat bleep crazy. You can safely parallel a modern capacitor to the terminals on the FP can and put the capacitors somewhere convenient while you wait for a better solution. Worth a look see. -Chuck Harris peter bunge wrote: I have not had any replies on the TDS644A power supply problem. I have my repair log for the last repair if anyone is interested. It is not a simple power supply. |
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Tek 576 chatters
peter bunge
I have not had any replies on the TDS644A power supply problem. I have my repair log for the last repair if anyone is interested. It is not a simple power supply.
While troubleshooting I needed my Tek 576 curve tracer to check the TVS and HV transistors, especially the replacement BU508A (the last batch from China were only good to 400v). I had used MJE8501 (pencilled in on a TDS544A schematic) but have not been able to find a parts list to show the correct transistor. HELP! My curve tracer now does not show any curves. While troubleshooting it suddenly made a sound like a relay chattering and the display went blurry and jumped around. The +100v supply was at 60v. However turning it off and on it ran for a few minutes then did the same thing. I left it off for dinner and when I returned it ran for over an hour while I continued troubleshooting the step generator which does not seem to be getting to the test transistor. The manual says to check the DAC but does not say where it is. I am about to start again. Any suggestions? PeterB |
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Re: Why U800 is such a big problem in Tek Scopes
walter shawlee
We don't offer the re-bake process on U800's any longer at Sphere (because Toru in Japan does not do it any longer). The actual root cause of the primary problem with U800 is as follows:
The modified DIP package has a very large heatsink pad, *bonding the chip to the pad is very difficult*, and it was a process that sometimes left the chip attached with essentially a cold solder joint, with high thermal resistance. This made the chip exhibit a range of problems as it warmed up. The re-bake process essentially re-seated the chip to the pad by re-flowing the attachment. *IF* the faults were related to this issue, the success rate was quite high. The chip also had other stress failures not related to this specific issue, they cannot be cured by re-flowing the die attachment. Heatsinking the chip seems to help improve life, and I did it to any 24xx scope that I worked on. Even a 2" square of plate aluminum attached to the package makes a very big difference in package and die temperature. This is not the only 24xx series ship to exhibit die attachment thermal problems, it also occurs in the 155-0236, and they have also been recovered by this process. While I like the 24xx series operationally, the product did not age as well as earlier designs, and repairs and calibration often prove quite difficult after 30 years, especially if U800 is involved. best regards, walter -- Walter Shawlee 2 Sphere Research Corp. 3394 Sunnyside Rd. West Kelowna, BC, V1Z 2V4 CANADA Phone: +1 (250-769-1834 -:- +We're all in one boat, no matter how it looks to you. (WS2) +All you need is love. (John Lennon) +But, that doesn't mean other things don't come in handy. (WS2) +Nature is trying very hard to make us succeed, but nature does not depend on us. We are not the only experiment. (R. Buckminster Fuller) |
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Re: Will this capacitor fail?
George and DW
Definitely a 170uF Cap. I would check the ESR on that old cap very carefully, if it checks "good" for capacity, ESR and ripple, leave it alone. I just finished with a 577 and the filter caps all checked good for ESR and Ripple current. In my experience, the 577 was much more plagued with bad tantalum caps. I found 7 bad ones on mine, which completely disabled the thing. Just my opinion and experience, of course. Best of luck in your project. -- Michael Lynch Dardanelle, AR |
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Re: 2235A Vertical Trace Issue
Chuck Harris
Think of a CRT's electron gun as being like a machine gun. Just like
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a machine gun fires bullets at a fixed continuous rate, so does an electron gun with electrons. Let's imagine our electron gun fires off electrons at 10 electrons per second. If you sweep our electron gun across the width of the screen in 10 seconds, there will be about 100 electrons striking the screen, evenly spaced along a line. Similarly, the same thing will happen if the electron gun's beam of electrons travels from the top to the bottom of the screen in 10 seconds. Further suppose the beam goes from top to bottom in only 1 second, while it is also traveling from left to right in 10 seconds. Since the trace is only 10 seconds long, it will still contain a total of 100 electrons, but during the time it is traveling from top to bottom, there will only be 1 second's worth of electrons, or about 10 electrons. Suppose still further that the beam travels top to bottom in 1/10th of a second while it is taking 10 seconds to travel from left to right. The total trace will still contain only 100 electrons, but the section that goes from top to bottom will now contain only 1 or maybe 2 electrons! If we keep reducing the time it takes for our beam to go from top to bottom, while it is taking its 10 seconds to travel from left to right, eventually it will traverse from top to bottom of the screen without recording even a single electron striking the screen. The record of our electron beam's travels will look as though the beam instantly traveled from the top to the bottom of the screen. This is exactly what is happening on your scope. The number of electrons the electron gun shoots at the screen is at a rate that is a million times faster, but parts of the trace where the bean travels great distances in very little time will not have as many electrons hitting the screen as will parts where the beam is puttering along slowly... The beam will appear to have no brightness in those sections where it is traveling really fast.. -Chuck Harris Ed Pavlovic wrote: I'm slowly going through my 2235A scope, replacing the Schaffner line filter and the RIFA capacitors on the Pre Regulator board. The RIFA caps were visibly crazed, so I'm glad I'm replacing them before they failed like the ones in an old computer PSU I have. |
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Re: 7B15, 7B10 questions
On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Dennis Tillman W7PF wrote:
Hi Dennis: We have 2 7104s... and occasionally I see one for sale, and the picture of it usually shows it operating with the amber "limited viewing time" indicator illuminated. I'd only pay the prices most are asking for a 7104, if I thought I could get a good spare MCP CRT, with some good life left in it. A cheap 7104 might be worth it, just for the parts though. I take it by your post... that even though the janitor tripped over a 7104 in the hallway, outside the research lab, and is now selling it... the CRT should be good, even though it may have operated in "limited viewing time" mode frequently? Best regards and wishes. Roy |
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Re: Will this capacitor fail?
You should be fine. 20% above 200 volts would be 240 volts. BTW, the schematic shows the value C744 as 170 micro farad.
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George KD6NEW On Aug 20, 2019, at 9:16 PM, DW <wilson2115@...> wrote: |
Jason A.
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