Re: New acquisition: Soviet 7000-series copies
Thanks for posting the pictures
I needed that.
Worked on and taken a lot of stuff apart, but I have never seen Russian
electronics.
John
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of cmjones01 Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 7:09 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [TekScopes] New acquisition: Soviet 7000-series copies On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 08:54 am, ykochcal wrote: Now your just teasing us, what's under that cover of that plugin????? Ask and ye shall receive. I've just broken the 1989-vintage factory seals on the timebase plugin, because it's not working properly, and taken some internal photos. They're on TekWiki here: Chris
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Back in the late 60's I worked at HP incoming inspection. They used an exotic, tiny, tunnel diode in
a
pulse generator. I don't remember the current rating. They were lead-less and expensive. About
$110.00 each. They were tested individually and photographed on a curve tracer.and the photo stayed
in a file for the device There was a spring loaded adapter that just sandwiched the diode between 2
contacts. Occasionally one would get dropped and then a search of the floor space ensued until it
was
found.
Leonard That is interesting to know! I have a 1108A tunnel diode mount with the 1105A pulse generator that goes with it. Works perfectly! Craig
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On Fri, 4 May 2018, cmjones01 wrote: You can find 1I308K (or GI308K that is non-military version) on Ebay. They are still available NOS from former USSR. I know tunnel diodes crop up here from time to time in fast pulse
generators and timebase triggers. I'm trying to get my Soviet Ya4S-89
pulse generator working properly, and by experimentation and deciphering
the manual in Russian, it's become clear that it's designed to drive
external pulse-shaping cables which contain a tunnel diode. The output
waveform I see looks exactly right, so now I need the tunnel diodes to go
with it.
The manual specifies type 1I308K, which is a 50mA type. I guess this high
current gives a usefully large pulse amplitude with good risetime into a
50R load. The trouble is, most of the tunnel diodes I can find online
have currents in the range 1mA-5mA, which clearly won't do. The highest
current I've seen so far has been 20mA.
Does anyone here think there's any chance of finding a 50mA tunnel diode
these days? Or should I bite the bullet, tweak some resistor values in
the pulse generator, and go for a 20mA type, putting up with reduced
output amplitude?
Thank you
Chris --- * * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * *
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You're forgetting that it was a solid fuel engine, and that the engine housing didn't heat evenly. It was hottest at the output, and coldest at the top of the engines. The differential would have cracked welds and the problems would have gotten worse each time a booster engine was reused. Below the rated temperature, the seals couldn't be certified to contain the exhaust gasses. There was a book covering the technical details of the designs, and their reasons. I read it years ago, I think it was called 'A Major Malfunction'.
Michael A. Terrell
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-----Original Message----- From: Jeff Urban <JURB6006@...>
On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 03:03 pm, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
My understanding is that there were two reasons. First of all, they had to
build the engines in sections, and secondly they had different thermal
expansion rates.
I hope not to sound too stupid here but...
Why would they use materials of different thermal expansion coefficients? Even if more heat is generated in one section than the other, I find it hard to believe that was the right choice, and I assume money was practically no object.
That is was built in sections, with limited information here I assumed it had something to do with transportation. While state law could be suspended and highways closed for such a special transport, there is still a limit as to just how large of an object can be physically transported.
I think it is a damn shame they retired those without a viable replacement. They seem to be losing the last of their brain cells. Not that the shuttle did this, but now from what I understand we buy rockets from Russia to do maintenance of our satellites ???
Is that smart from a national security standpoint ? I have my doubts to say the least, even though the pundits are overblowing the differences between the two superpowers, it is not hard to become enemies in this world of pipeline wars etc.
I am not sentimental but I see it as a bad time when they retired those craft, and I think they should have kept a few of those SR-71/YF17s around. These were some significant accomplishments in their time.
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Re: Using network analyzers below their stated bandwidth?
I've found the analog discovery most useful for low frequency work. Not because it is especially great hardware, but it comes with ready-made software and is relatively affordable. Often the software that comes with this type of toy is poor and buggy, but the network analyzer portion is well made in my opinion. It still picks the spot frequency out of a very noisy switchmode supply with great dynamic range so you can do control loop analysis. I wouldn't want to use the scope part of the software for anything, it's crap. <> If you want a step up from a sound card with more frequency range and at least rudimentary input attenuators this is a good choice. ST On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 4:21 PM, ebrucehunter via Groups.Io <Brucekareen@...> wrote: If you are looking for an audio frequency network analyser, look at Bob Larkin's article: DSP-Based Vector Network Analyser for 10 Hz to 40 kHz in the May/June issue of QEX Magazine. You would have to assemble your own; however, boards and the software have been made available.
Bruce, KG6OJI
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Back in the late 60's I worked at HP incoming inspection. They used an exotic, tiny, tunnel diode in a pulse generator. I don't remember the current rating. They were lead-less and expensive. About $110.00 each. They were tested individually and photographed on a curve tracer.and the photo stayed in a file for the device There was a spring loaded adapter that just sandwiched the diode between 2 contacts. Occasionally one would get dropped and then a search of the floor space ensued until it was found.
Leonard
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Re: Using network analyzers below their stated bandwidth?
If you are looking for an audio frequency network analyser, look at Bob Larkin's article: DSP-Based Vector Network Analyser for 10 Hz to 40 kHz in the May/June issue of QEX Magazine. You would have to assemble your own; however, boards and the software have been made available.
Bruce, KG6OJI
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Re: New acquisition: Soviet 7000-series copies
On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 08:54 am, ykochcal wrote: Now your just teasing us, what's under that cover of that plugin????? Ask and ye shall receive. I've just broken the 1989-vintage factory seals on the timebase plugin, because it's not working properly, and taken some internal photos. They're on TekWiki here: Chris
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On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 05:13 am, Brian Cockburn wrote:
Thanks Jay,
Sadly no 'Ship Date' for my 2245A.
Brian.
I recently worked on a T922 and it actually had a date hand written inside the case in "Oct 20 1978", not sure if this was standard practice or not. My TDS460 had several date stamps on various components, including the CRT and mains transformer.
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On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 03:03 pm, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
My understanding is that there were two reasons. First of all, they had to
build the engines in sections, and secondly they had different thermal
expansion rates.
I hope not to sound too stupid here but... Why would they use materials of different thermal expansion coefficients ? Even if more heat is generated in one section than the other, I find it hard to believe that was the right choice, and I assume money was practically no object. That is was built ion sections, with limited information here I assumed it had something to do with transportation. While state law could be suspended and highways closed for such a special transport, there is still a limit as to just how large of an object can be physically transported. I think it is a damn shame they retired those without a viable replacement. They seem to be losing the last of their brain cells. Not that the shuttle did this, but now from what I understand we buy rockets from Russia to do maintenance of our satellites ??? Is that smart from a national security standpoint ? I have my doubts to say the least, even though the pundits are overblowing the differences between the two superpowers, it is not hard to become enemies in this world of pipeline wars etc. I am not sentimental but I see it as a bad time when they retired those craft, and I think they should have kept a few of those SR-71/YF17s around. These were some significant accomplishments in their time.
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On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 05:23 am, Craig Sawyers wrote: Now to figure out how to mount those leadless packages safely. I'm assuming that soldering isn't a
good idea, though perhaps I'd get away with it with fine wires and deft technique. Not sure I want
to
try though! The way that Tek did that was via sprung pressure contacts to both faces of
the pill. Such as in the
type 284 and S52. These were integral to a transmission line structure.
That's good to know. At the moment I'm visualising a bit of gold-finished PCB with a hole drilled the right size for the pill, edge-mounted SMA connectors for the input and output, and a spring contact fashioned from the insides of an abandoned relay or similar. Could be quite neat, and maybe the tunnel diode could be fitted either way up for the two different polarities. Chris
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Ah! Thank you for that. Not sure how I didn't spot it. Duly ordered - I figured it was worth the
cost to
turn a technical curiosity into a genuinely useful tool.
Now to figure out how to mount those leadless packages safely. I'm assuming that soldering isn't a
good idea, though perhaps I'd get away with it with fine wires and deft technique. Not sure I want
to
try though! The way that Tek did that was via sprung pressure contacts to both faces of the pill. Such as in the type 284 and S52. These were integral to a transmission line structure. Craig
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Thanks Jay,
Sadly no 'Ship Date' for my 2245A.
Brian.
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Ah! Thank you for that. Not sure how I didn't spot it. Duly ordered - I figured it was worth the cost to turn a technical curiosity into a genuinely useful tool.
Now to figure out how to mount those leadless packages safely. I'm assuming that soldering isn't a good idea, though perhaps I'd get away with it with fine wires and deft technique. Not sure I want to try though!
Chris
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On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 04:12 am, Craig Sawyers wrote:
1I308K is on eBay for $34 for 2 off item number 331453647843
The manual specifies type 1I308K, which is a 50mA type. I guess this high current gives a usefully
large
pulse amplitude with good risetime into a 50R load. The trouble is, most of the tunnel diodes I can
find
online have currents in the range 1mA-5mA, which clearly won't do. The highest current I've seen so
far has been 20mA.
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Re: New acquisition: Soviet 7000-series copies
It truly is because English is the universal language.
Sure, in the USA, we generally speak only English, but
everywhere in the world, except for Quebec, Canada,
English is taught to all the school children as a second
language.
Back during the cold war, a USSR Mig was flown to NATO
soil by a Russian defector. The US experts were all
over it, and tore it to bits in order to study the state
of USSR technology. Everyone was feeling all warm and
fuzzy until one of the engineers noticed that inside of
every assembly all of the writing was in English. They
figured that they had been had.
It appeared to be a very elaborate deception too, as all
of the technology was from the US 1940's and 50's. One
Russian defector was about to get his butt kicked back to
the Soviet Union...
Well, everyone was blushing about their stupidity, when
someone put the question to the intelligence agencies, and
the answer was that the Russians did that on everything
they made that they might want to export... which given the
state of their economy was pretty much everything.. The
idea being that since all of the Soviet kids were already
taught English, they would need to make only one model for
domestic and export, rather than two.
It is a story that sounds like an urban legend, except that
it was told to me by my father, who was working in electronic
countermeasures for the Navy at the Pentagon, at the time,
and was directly involved.... if you are doing
countermeasures, it helps to know what your enemy is using
against you.
Including Tektronix scope clones...
-Chuck Harris
Jeff Urban wrote:
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On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 08:20 pm, Dave Seiter wrote:
Why does it say "Made in USSR" in english?
You get the observant award of the day. I didn't even think of that and if I had I might have dismiss it as English being a "universal" language, which is actually a farce. English speaking is not in the majority even though it is spoken by people of many tongues as a second language. My UScentroism leanings is the reason, and I freely admit that.
But that of course does not answer your quite astute question. Why indeed ? Unless they intended it to be found by US ians knowing we are the most unilingual people on Earth. (if even that lol)
Thanks for refreshing my brain here.
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1I308K is on eBay for $34 for 2 off item number 331453647843
Craig
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The manual specifies type 1I308K, which is a 50mA type. I guess this high current gives a usefully
large
pulse amplitude with good risetime into a 50R load. The trouble is, most of the tunnel diodes I can
find
online have currents in the range 1mA-5mA, which clearly won't do. The highest current I've seen so
far has been 20mA.
Does anyone here think there's any chance of finding a 50mA tunnel diode these days? Or should I
bite the bullet, tweak some resistor values in the pulse generator, and go for a 20mA type, putting
up
with reduced output amplitude?
Thank you
Chris
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Re: OT : How About A Group For "Other" ?
Are you sure that's a relevant difference? I don't see why. If you're not a member of the group, why should membership of groups.io give you any special privileges? and why should you care?
EJP
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I know tunnel diodes crop up here from time to time in fast pulse generators and timebase triggers. I'm trying to get my Soviet Ya4S-89 pulse generator working properly, and by experimentation and deciphering the manual in Russian, it's become clear that it's designed to drive external pulse-shaping cables which contain a tunnel diode. The output waveform I see looks exactly right, so now I need the tunnel diodes to go with it.
The manual specifies type 1I308K, which is a 50mA type. I guess this high current gives a usefully large pulse amplitude with good risetime into a 50R load. The trouble is, most of the tunnel diodes I can find online have currents in the range 1mA-5mA, which clearly won't do. The highest current I've seen so far has been 20mA.
Does anyone here think there's any chance of finding a 50mA tunnel diode these days? Or should I bite the bullet, tweak some resistor values in the pulse generator, and go for a 20mA type, putting up with reduced output amplitude?
Thank you
Chris
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Given a model number and a serial number is there a way to look up or estimate the time of manufacture? You can try this: David Garrido found this. Works with the TDS scopes. Don't know how far back it goes... Jay
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Re: Tek 2465a grid bias and brightness problems
Last update:
It was indeed the CRT, a new CRT completly fixed the problem. No other parts of the scope needed replacement. Probably there was something not right with control grid in the old tube. No defect is clearly visible on the old crt once removed.
Thanks to everybody for all your efforts in helping me.
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Sergey Kubushyn
Michael A. Terrell
ebrucehunter
Mlynch001
Jeff Urban
Brian Cockburn