That narrows the problem down to some point at or after transistor
array U460. The good news is that the 2213 does not use a custom
trigger IC so if the problem can be found, it should be relatively
easy to fix.

With the trigger set to LINE and AUTO, adjust the LEVEL to midway and
measure pin 10 of U480C and pin 7 of U480B. With both SLOPE settings,
there should be at least a 300mV to 400mV square wave on each pin.

If there is, then check pin 2 of U480A. It should have a 300mV to
400mV square wave.

On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 10:51:11 -0000, "tjeenz" <tjeenz@...> wrote:

Hi David, still out there?

back from trip...
I checked tp444:
with trig on "line" i have a sinus with about 0.5V tt

if i connect a 4V top-top sinus at ch1 with trig on "int" i have 150mV sinus on tp444 (very small)

U460B, pin 2:
norm: there is indeed a +0.65 - -0.65V which can be controlled by the trig-lev. pot.
auto: sinus 50 mV (again with 4V tt at ch1). which seems very small...

in all situations the display does not show a "still" image.

tjeenz


--- In TekScopes@..., "tjeenz" <tjeenz@> wrote:

hi David,
thx for the tip! i will check this as soon as possible (couple days out of town). i check tp444 before with ext. trigger and that was very small compared to the input signal. don't know the exact amplitude but much lower.
probably back on saturday. tjeenz.

--- In TekScopes@..., David <davidwhess@> wrote:

I would start by looking at TP444 (middle of schematic 4) which should
be a duplicate of the trigger input signal as selected by the source
and coupling controls. At the very least, there should be a 60Hz sine
wave at that point when the trigger source is set to line.

Then I would check pin 2 of U460B which should be a duplicate of the
tri.gger level voltage as set by the trigger level control. In Auto
mode this voltage will be between the peak levels of the trigger
signal but in normal mode, it should be between +0.65V and -0.65V.

It would be nice to have a nicer scan of the service manual. I
extracted and cleaned up schematic 4 from the one available online:



On Tue, 18 Sep 2012 11:00:41 -0000, "tjeenz" <tjeenz@> wrote:

Hi,
Have a trigger problem with a 2213 tektronix.

In auto and line trigger i have a baseline. In norm not. Also ext. trigger fails (signal from function generator 4v pp and ch1 on 1v/div)

cannot get still image to see frequency, amplitude is ok. with signal on one of the channels, trig in auto i can almost get still image if freq is low enough with var hold-off. trig-level does nothing. Also the trigger led never blinks.

Checked all p.s. voltages. Are ok (no ripples), but according to service manual there should be some specific resistance on the voltages. These are way too low in my scope:
8.6v 114 ohm at tp500= 58 ohm
+8.6v 95 ohm at W975 = 16 ohm
+5v 330 ohm at W985 = 16 ohm
+30v 905 ohm at W965 = 16 ohm
+100v 12.5 kohm at W966 = 16 ohm

so i guess something is wrong somewhere. checked the big capacitors in the p.s, for 30V and +8.6V, both were in spec.

Are these resistance values in the manual a good reference for finding the faulty area?

regards, tjeenz

For starters I found this on ebay but it looks too short.



I am scouring the 2712 SVC Manual looking for the correct part number but so far no luck, it is diagramed but the part numbers are not listed for any of the cables.



--- In TekScopes@..., "dreadlk" <dreadlk@> wrote:

Thanks for the information, I agree with both of your assessments. It was easy to find the Cables in a flex format so I went out and bought some on day one. Now that I read your posts I know it won't work and my dilemma is that I have no idea where to find the Semi Rigid versions. I am going to do some searching but I have a feeling I am going to need a lot of luck on my side to make this happen. If the unit will error out it makes little sense for me to proceed further until I locate these cables so at this point I am going to mark out the plate for cutting and drilling based on Jims info and then when I know where to get the needed cables I will start the cutting and drilling.

If anybody has any of these cables and is willing to sell them please let me know or if you have any ideas on a source that might sell them the info would be greatly appreciated.

Robert
KD8MJR

--- In TekScopes@..., "Rich Miller" <av8torrich@> wrote:

Hello Robert:



With regard to the rigid coax cable used to connect the TG to the front
panel, I think you are going to want to use this. While at low frequency
other types of cable may work fine, when you get into microwave you may run
into a problem with the TG Gain Flatness Normalization. If the output of the
TG is off by more than +/-3dBm (This is from memory so double check), it
will show up as a fault when you first attempt to normalize.



Rich, AJ3G



From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf
Of dreadlk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 2:33 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Help I got a Tracking Generator for my Tek 2710 but
how do I install it?







Hi Jim

Thank you so much for the reply. I do have a VR BW board in that cavity and
I received the TG with no cables at all, I will have to figure out how to
obtain the needed parts and where to source them.
I was wondering if flexible cables with SMA and Type N will work or does it
have to be the rigid stuff? I obtained a copy of the 2712 SV Manual and am
going to look through it tonight to try and get a better idea of what I am
dealing with, I want to thank you for your post, it certainly clarified
things for me, I hope I am up to the task of doing this Job as I must admit
I am a bit worried about messing up my 2710 it has been absolutely a
pleasure to use over the years and is in fantastic condition.

Let me ask you Jim is there any chance of having my proverbial cake and
eating it too?
I mean could I leave in the VR BW board and run cables to the Back of the
unit and put the TG in a separate enclosure, kind of like a DIY 2707? I am
just wondering if anybody has ever done that, I would imagine that it might
not be practical but I just wanted to get your opinion.

Anyway Jim I am going to take out the VR BW board and see what I am dealing
with. If you have any suggestions please post them, and thanks so much for
your help.

Robert
KD8MJR

--- In TekScopes@... <mailto:TekScopes%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Jim" <jflan@> wrote:

Hi Robert -
The TG mounts in the cavity on the left side of the analyzer. This also is

the same cavity which houses the Variable Resolution BW board. You can only
use one or the other, not both. It wasn't clear whether you have the VR BW
board or not.

There are two semi-rigid cables that will need to be made. One routes the

RF to the front panel and has an SMA on one end and a Type N on the other.
The other routes the 2nd LO (2 GHz) to the TG. Did you receive these cables?
The ribbon cable will plug into the main power supply board to provide the
interface. in fact, I just remembered that one end of the ribbon cable is
crimped to a IDC connector that is *soldered* to the power supply board. The
other end uses at typical IDC connector that will plug into the TG. The 2712
(not 2710) service manual has a block diagram that will aide in making the
necessary connections. This manual is down loadable from the Tek.com site
and will be a better reference for what you are wanting to do. You will have
some work to do to get your TG up and running. Take your time and it will go
smoothly.

Good luck.
Jim
WB5KYE


--- In TekScopes@... <mailto:TekScopes%40yahoogroups.com> ,

"dreadlk" <dreadlk@> wrote:

I posted about a month ago about searching for an internal tracking

generator for my 2710 SA and I finally found one from an old Tektronix
dealer.

Now I have this unit with Id No 119-3889-07 it's in a golden colored all

metal case with 3 female SMA connectors and a 10 pin 2 row IDC connector.

Luckily I found several old Mobo serial connectors that are the right

size but only use 9 of the 10 pins so I removed the wire and made a 10 wire
straight pin to pin cable from the connector ends.

Now I open up my 2710 to locate grounds and power pins on this IDC

connector and have a WTF moment. Where the Heck does this thing go!! I
remember a side section that was free but the unit won't fit and all the
card slots are used up! Plus its just too big, so I have no clue how this
fits into a 2710.

I can find nothing on the net about this Option 04 tracking generator,

it's not even listed in the 2710 service manual but I have seen several 2710
sold with Tracking Gens built in and the guy who sold it to me told me it
works with the 2710 Arggggh....

Anybody have any idea what I should do next? I can't even locate the 10

pin connector that it supposed to plug into much less fit the unit into my
2710. Man I hope I did not waste all that money, I am having serious regrets
now. Sorry if this comes of as a Crazy Rant but I should have done my
homework before making this purchase, I am upset with myself.

Robert
KD8MJR

----- Original Message -----

From: pdxareaid

To: TekScopes@...

Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 3:20 PM

Subject: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B

?

i did bend and shave to size for the holes on rectifiers for a 465M fix. bigger is better when it comes to rectifiers.

--- In TekScopes@..., "Tom Jobe" <tomjobe@...> wrote:
>
> The Tekscopes archive could have saved you a lot of work Brad.
> Your advice to go up on full wave bridge voltage rating is excellent!
> in my experience, the limiting factor on a replacement bridge is the diameter of the leads coming out of the bridge, and whether they will fit into the holes on the mainboard. You need to lay the bridge over on an angle to get vertical clearance for a taller bridge, as well as to gain access to solder the new bridge in place.
> The larger bridges have the leads on larger centers, but you can bend the leads inward to fit the hole pattern in the mainboard.
> tom jobe...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brad King
> To: TekScopes@...
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 3:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B
>
>
>
> I had to undo the power transformer on mine and lift it up to access the other side of the board to get at that 8v rectifier, replaced it with a garden variety nte 8 amp.
>
>
>
> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: "Tom Jobe" <tomjobe@...>
> Sender: TekScopes@...
> Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 14:59:34 -0700
> To: <TekScopes@...>
> ReplyTo: TekScopes@...
> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B
>
>
>
>
> I didn't notice if you said the low voltages were good or not, but until every low voltage is good, you are wasting your time checking anything else.
> Another thing to look for is dead rectifiers. There are a few of them right where the big PS caps are mounted and they are easy to change without taking the scope apart. These are those full wave bridges all in one big rectangular chip.
> The Tekscopes Message archive has several methods people have used successfully to change the rectifiers on the 4XX scopes like the 465, 465B, 475, 474A, etc, if you don't have your own method.
> tom jobe...
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: pdxareaid
> To: TekScopes@...
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 2:04 PM
> Subject: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B
>
>
>
> thanks for the tip. i did not know tantalums smelled.
> i'll probably hit big filter caps anyway...i had a bad experience with them in a 465M among other PS components. i have the service manual etc. need to read up and start checking things in and around ps. afraid to leave it on and have failures cascade. quick voltage measurements to start.
> i understand failed tants are pretty easy to spot. they fail shorted usually? is that right?
> phil
>
> --- In TekScopes@..., "Tom Jobe" <tomjobe@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Phil,
> > A free 465B is a wonderful thing!
> > From my own experiences and reading the Tekscopes group for years, maybe consider starting by checking the resistance to ground at each power supply test point, then go looking for some of those pesky tantalums in the 10uF to 47uF range on the shorted supply(s).
> > The tantalums make the bad smells when they die, more so than the electrolytics.
> > Maybe someone has a list of expected resistances for the voltage test points on a 465B ?
> > tom jobe...
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: pdxareaid
> > To: TekScopes@...
> > Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:42 PM
> > Subject: [TekScopes] WooHoo! 465B
> >
> >
> >
> > I just picked up a 465B off Craigslist. Came with 10x probe.
> >
> > the ad:
> > "Unit was working, then stored for 3 or 4 years. When I turned it on recently, it died. There's a beam, but no sweep. It worked well before that. I was hoping someone would want to fix it and put it to good use. Free."
> >
> > Nice guy...engineer...just did not want to deal with it.
> > He mentioned electrical burning smell when turning on.
> >
> > I got it home and spent 10 minutes with it...opened it up and turned it on. Burning smell coming from PS section I think. Whole screen glows off and on, no trace to speak of.
> > It is in excellent shape otherwise, calibration stickers all over it.
> >
> > I am thinking PS filter caps to start, then tantalum and electrolytic search after that.
> > Phil
> >
>

You are way ahead of us on the rectifiers!
But... I think your biggest problem today is going to be an angry wife if you don't quit playing with that fine 465B oscilloscope!
tom jobe...



----- Original Message -----
From: pdxareaid
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 3:20 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B




i did bend and shave to size for the holes on rectifiers for a 465M fix. bigger is better when it comes to rectifiers.

--- In TekScopes@..., "Tom Jobe" <tomjobe@> wrote:
>
> The Tekscopes archive could have saved you a lot of work Brad.
> Your advice to go up on full wave bridge voltage rating is excellent!
> in my experience, the limiting factor on a replacement bridge is the diameter of the leads coming out of the bridge, and whether they will fit into the holes on the mainboard. You need to lay the bridge over on an angle to get vertical clearance for a taller bridge, as well as to gain access to solder the new bridge in place.
> The larger bridges have the leads on larger centers, but you can bend the leads inward to fit the hole pattern in the mainboard.
> tom jobe...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brad King
> To: TekScopes@...
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 3:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B
>
>
>
> I had to undo the power transformer on mine and lift it up to access the other side of the board to get at that 8v rectifier, replaced it with a garden variety nte 8 amp.
>
>
>
> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: "Tom Jobe" <tomjobe@>
> Sender: TekScopes@...
> Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 14:59:34 -0700
> To: <TekScopes@...>
> ReplyTo: TekScopes@...
> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B
>
>
>
>
> I didn't notice if you said the low voltages were good or not, but until every low voltage is good, you are wasting your time checking anything else.
> Another thing to look for is dead rectifiers. There are a few of them right where the big PS caps are mounted and they are easy to change without taking the scope apart. These are those full wave bridges all in one big rectangular chip.
> The Tekscopes Message archive has several methods people have used successfully to change the rectifiers on the 4XX scopes like the 465, 465B, 475, 474A, etc, if you don't have your own method.
> tom jobe...
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: pdxareaid
> To: TekScopes@...
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 2:04 PM
> Subject: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B
>
>
>
> thanks for the tip. i did not know tantalums smelled.
> i'll probably hit big filter caps anyway...i had a bad experience with them in a 465M among other PS components. i have the service manual etc. need to read up and start checking things in and around ps. afraid to leave it on and have failures cascade. quick voltage measurements to start.
> i understand failed tants are pretty easy to spot. they fail shorted usually? is that right?
> phil
>
> --- In TekScopes@..., "Tom Jobe" <tomjobe@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Phil,
> > A free 465B is a wonderful thing!
> > From my own experiences and reading the Tekscopes group for years, maybe consider starting by checking the resistance to ground at each power supply test point, then go looking for some of those pesky tantalums in the 10uF to 47uF range on the shorted supply(s).
> > The tantalums make the bad smells when they die, more so than the electrolytics.
> > Maybe someone has a list of expected resistances for the voltage test points on a 465B ?
> > tom jobe...
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: pdxareaid
> > To: TekScopes@...
> > Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:42 PM
> > Subject: [TekScopes] WooHoo! 465B
> >
> >
> >
> > I just picked up a 465B off Craigslist. Came with 10x probe.
> >
> > the ad:
> > "Unit was working, then stored for 3 or 4 years. When I turned it on recently, it died. There's a beam, but no sweep. It worked well before that. I was hoping someone would want to fix it and put it to good use. Free."
> >
> > Nice guy...engineer...just did not want to deal with it.
> > He mentioned electrical burning smell when turning on.
> >
> > I got it home and spent 10 minutes with it...opened it up and turned it on. Burning smell coming from PS section I think. Whole screen glows off and on, no trace to speak of.
> > It is in excellent shape otherwise, calibration stickers all over it.
> >
> > I am thinking PS filter caps to start, then tantalum and electrolytic search after that.
> > Phil
> >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: pdxareaid

To: TekScopes@...

Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 3:20 PM

Subject: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B

?

i did bend and shave to size for the holes on rectifiers for a 465M fix. bigger is better when it comes to rectifiers.

--- In TekScopes@..., "Tom Jobe" wrote:
>
> The Tekscopes archive could have saved you a lot of work Brad.
> Your advice to go up on full wave bridge voltage rating is excellent!
> in my experience, the limiting factor on a replacement bridge is the diameter of the leads coming out of the bridge, and whether they will fit into the holes on the mainboard. You need to lay the bridge over on an angle to get vertical clearance for a taller bridge, as well as to gain access to solder the new bridge in place.
> The larger bridges have the leads on larger centers, but you can bend the leads inward to fit the hole pattern in the mainboard.
> tom jobe...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brad King
> To: TekScopes@...
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 3:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B
>
>
>
> I had to undo the power transformer on mine and lift it up to access the other side of the board to get at that 8v rectifier, replaced it with a garden variety nte 8 amp.
>
>
>
> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: "Tom Jobe"
> Sender: TekScopes@...
> Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 14:59:34 -0700
> To: <TekScopes@...>
> ReplyTo: TekScopes@...
> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B
>
>
>
>
> I didn't notice if you said the low voltages were good or not, but until every low voltage is good, you are wasting your time checking anything else.
> Another thing to look for is dead rectifiers. There are a few of them right where the big PS caps are mounted and they are easy to change without taking the scope apart. These are those full wave bridges all in one big rectangular chip.
> The Tekscopes Message archive has several methods people have used successfully to change the rectifiers on the 4XX scopes like the 465, 465B, 475, 474A, etc, if you don't have your own method.
> tom jobe...
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: pdxareaid
> To: TekScopes@...
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 2:04 PM
> Subject: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B
>
>
>
> thanks for the tip. i did not know tantalums smelled.
> i'll probably hit big filter caps anyway...i had a bad experience with them in a 465M among other PS components. i have the service manual etc. need to read up and start checking things in and around ps. afraid to leave it on and have failures cascade. quick voltage measurements to start.
> i understand failed tants are pretty easy to spot. they fail shorted usually? is that right?
> phil
>
> --- In TekScopes@..., "Tom Jobe" wrote:
> >
> > Hi Phil,
> > A free 465B is a wonderful thing!
> > From my own experiences and reading the Tekscopes group for years, maybe consider starting by checking the resistance to ground at each power supply test point, then go looking for some of those pesky tantalums in the 10uF to 47uF range on the shorted supply(s).
> > The tantalums make the bad smells when they die, more so than the electrolytics.
> > Maybe someone has a list of expected resistances for the voltage test points on a 465B ?
> > tom jobe...
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: pdxareaid
> > To: TekScopes@...
> > Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:42 PM
> > Subject: [TekScopes] WooHoo! 465B
> >
> >
> >
> > I just picked up a 465B off Craigslist. Came with 10x probe.
> >
> > the ad:
> > "Unit was working, then stored for 3 or 4 years. When I turned it on recently, it died. There's a beam, but no sweep. It worked well before that. I was hoping someone would want to fix it and put it to good use. Free."
> >
> > Nice guy...engineer...just did not want to deal with it.
> > He mentioned electrical burning smell when turning on.
> >
> > I got it home and spent 10 minutes with it...opened it up and turned it on. Burning smell coming from PS section I think. Whole screen glows off and on, no trace to speak of.
> > It is in excellent shape otherwise, calibration stickers all over it.
> >
> > I am thinking PS filter caps to start, then tantalum and electrolytic search after that.
> > Phil
> >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Brad King

To: TekScopes@...

Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 3:01 PM

Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B

?

I had to undo the power transformer on mine and lift it up to access the other side of the board to get at that 8v rectifier, replaced it with a garden variety nte 8 amp.

Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

---

From: "Tom Jobe" <tomjobe@...>

Sender: TekScopes@...

Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 14:59:34 -0700

To: <TekScopes@...>

ReplyTo: TekScopes@...

Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B

?

I didn't notice if you said the low voltages were good or not, but until every low voltage is good, you are wasting your time checking anything else.

Another thing to look for is dead rectifiers. There are a few of them right where the big PS caps are mounted and they are easy to change without taking the scope apart. These are those full wave bridges all?in one big rectangular chip.

The Tekscopes Message archive?has several?methods people have used successfully to change the rectifiers on the 4XX scopes like the 465, 465B, 475, 474A, etc, if you don't have your own method.

tom jobe...

?

?

?

?

----- Original Message -----

From: pdxareaid

To: TekScopes@...

Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 2:04 PM

Subject: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B

?

thanks for the tip. i did not know tantalums smelled.
i'll probably hit big filter caps anyway...i had a bad experience with them in a 465M among other PS components. i have the service manual etc. need to read up and start checking things in and around ps. afraid to leave it on and have failures cascade. quick voltage measurements to start.
i understand failed tants are pretty easy to spot. they fail shorted usually? is that right?
phil

--- In TekScopes@..., "Tom Jobe" <tomjobe@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Phil,
> A free 465B is a wonderful thing!
> From my own experiences and reading the Tekscopes group for years, maybe consider starting by checking the resistance to ground at each power supply test point, then go looking for some of those pesky tantalums in the 10uF to 47uF range on the shorted supply(s).
> The tantalums make the bad smells when they die, more so than the electrolytics.
> Maybe someone has a list of expected resistances for the voltage test points on a 465B ?
> tom jobe...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: pdxareaid
> To: TekScopes@...
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:42 PM
> Subject: [TekScopes] WooHoo! 465B
>
>
>
> I just picked up a 465B off Craigslist. Came with 10x probe.
>
> the ad:
> "Unit was working, then stored for 3 or 4 years. When I turned it on recently, it died. There's a beam, but no sweep. It worked well before that. I was hoping someone would want to fix it and put it to good use. Free."
>
> Nice guy...engineer...just did not want to deal with it.
> He mentioned electrical burning smell when turning on.
>
> I got it home and spent 10 minutes with it...opened it up and turned it on. Burning smell coming from PS section I think. Whole screen glows off and on, no trace to speak of.
> It is in excellent shape otherwise, calibration stickers all over it.
>
> I am thinking PS filter caps to start, then tantalum and electrolytic search after that.
> Phil
>

The Tekscopes archive could have saved you a lot of work Brad.
Your advice to go up on full wave bridge voltage rating is excellent!
in my experience, the limiting factor on a replacement bridge is the diameter of the leads coming out of the bridge, and whether they will fit into the holes on the mainboard. You need to lay the bridge over on an angle to get vertical clearance for a taller bridge, as well as to gain access to solder the new bridge in place.
The larger bridges have the leads on larger centers, but you can bend the leads inward to fit the hole pattern in the mainboard.
tom jobe...



----- Original Message -----
From: Brad King
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B



I had to undo the power transformer on mine and lift it up to access the other side of the board to get at that 8v rectifier, replaced it with a garden variety nte 8 amp.



Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tom Jobe" <tomjobe@...>
Sender: TekScopes@...
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 14:59:34 -0700
To: <TekScopes@...>
ReplyTo: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B




I didn't notice if you said the low voltages were good or not, but until every low voltage is good, you are wasting your time checking anything else.
Another thing to look for is dead rectifiers. There are a few of them right where the big PS caps are mounted and they are easy to change without taking the scope apart. These are those full wave bridges all in one big rectangular chip.
The Tekscopes Message archive has several methods people have used successfully to change the rectifiers on the 4XX scopes like the 465, 465B, 475, 474A, etc, if you don't have your own method.
tom jobe...




----- Original Message -----
From: pdxareaid
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 2:04 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B



thanks for the tip. i did not know tantalums smelled.
i'll probably hit big filter caps anyway...i had a bad experience with them in a 465M among other PS components. i have the service manual etc. need to read up and start checking things in and around ps. afraid to leave it on and have failures cascade. quick voltage measurements to start.
i understand failed tants are pretty easy to spot. they fail shorted usually? is that right?
phil

--- In TekScopes@..., "Tom Jobe" <tomjobe@> wrote:
>
> Hi Phil,
> A free 465B is a wonderful thing!
> From my own experiences and reading the Tekscopes group for years, maybe consider starting by checking the resistance to ground at each power supply test point, then go looking for some of those pesky tantalums in the 10uF to 47uF range on the shorted supply(s).
> The tantalums make the bad smells when they die, more so than the electrolytics.
> Maybe someone has a list of expected resistances for the voltage test points on a 465B ?
> tom jobe...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: pdxareaid
> To: TekScopes@...
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:42 PM
> Subject: [TekScopes] WooHoo! 465B
>
>
>
> I just picked up a 465B off Craigslist. Came with 10x probe.
>
> the ad:
> "Unit was working, then stored for 3 or 4 years. When I turned it on recently, it died. There's a beam, but no sweep. It worked well before that. I was hoping someone would want to fix it and put it to good use. Free."
>
> Nice guy...engineer...just did not want to deal with it.
> He mentioned electrical burning smell when turning on.
>
> I got it home and spent 10 minutes with it...opened it up and turned it on. Burning smell coming from PS section I think. Whole screen glows off and on, no trace to speak of.
> It is in excellent shape otherwise, calibration stickers all over it.
>
> I am thinking PS filter caps to start, then tantalum and electrolytic search after that.
> Phil
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Brad King

To: TekScopes@...

Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 3:01 PM

Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B

?

I had to undo the power transformer on mine and lift it up to access the other side of the board to get at that 8v rectifier, replaced it with a garden variety nte 8 amp.

Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

---

From: "Tom Jobe" <tomjobe@...>

Sender: TekScopes@...

Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 14:59:34 -0700

To:

ReplyTo: TekScopes@...

Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B

?

I didn't notice if you said the low voltages were good or not, but until every low voltage is good, you are wasting your time checking anything else.

Another thing to look for is dead rectifiers. There are a few of them right where the big PS caps are mounted and they are easy to change without taking the scope apart. These are those full wave bridges all?in one big rectangular chip.

The Tekscopes Message archive?has several?methods people have used successfully to change the rectifiers on the 4XX scopes like the 465, 465B, 475, 474A, etc, if you don't have your own method.

tom jobe...

?

?

?

?

----- Original Message -----

From: pdxareaid

To: TekScopes@...

Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 2:04 PM

Subject: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B

?

thanks for the tip. i did not know tantalums smelled.
i'll probably hit big filter caps anyway...i had a bad experience with them in a 465M among other PS components. i have the service manual etc. need to read up and start checking things in and around ps. afraid to leave it on and have failures cascade. quick voltage measurements to start.
i understand failed tants are pretty easy to spot. they fail shorted usually? is that right?
phil

--- In TekScopes@..., "Tom Jobe" wrote:
>
> Hi Phil,
> A free 465B is a wonderful thing!
> From my own experiences and reading the Tekscopes group for years, maybe consider starting by checking the resistance to ground at each power supply test point, then go looking for some of those pesky tantalums in the 10uF to 47uF range on the shorted supply(s).
> The tantalums make the bad smells when they die, more so than the electrolytics.
> Maybe someone has a list of expected resistances for the voltage test points on a 465B ?
> tom jobe...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: pdxareaid
> To: TekScopes@...
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:42 PM
> Subject: [TekScopes] WooHoo! 465B
>
>
>
> I just picked up a 465B off Craigslist. Came with 10x probe.
>
> the ad:
> "Unit was working, then stored for 3 or 4 years. When I turned it on recently, it died. There's a beam, but no sweep. It worked well before that. I was hoping someone would want to fix it and put it to good use. Free."
>
> Nice guy...engineer...just did not want to deal with it.
> He mentioned electrical burning smell when turning on.
>
> I got it home and spent 10 minutes with it...opened it up and turned it on. Burning smell coming from PS section I think. Whole screen glows off and on, no trace to speak of.
> It is in excellent shape otherwise, calibration stickers all over it.
>
> I am thinking PS filter caps to start, then tantalum and electrolytic search after that.
> Phil
>

I didn't notice if you said the low voltages were good or not, but until every low voltage is good, you are wasting your time checking anything else.
Another thing to look for is dead rectifiers. There are a few of them right where the big PS caps are mounted and they are easy to change without taking the scope apart. These are those full wave bridges all in one big rectangular chip.
The Tekscopes Message archive has several methods people have used successfully to change the rectifiers on the 4XX scopes like the 465, 465B, 475, 474A, etc, if you don't have your own method.
tom jobe...




----- Original Message -----
From: pdxareaid
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 2:04 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B



thanks for the tip. i did not know tantalums smelled.
i'll probably hit big filter caps anyway...i had a bad experience with them in a 465M among other PS components. i have the service manual etc. need to read up and start checking things in and around ps. afraid to leave it on and have failures cascade. quick voltage measurements to start.
i understand failed tants are pretty easy to spot. they fail shorted usually? is that right?
phil

--- In TekScopes@..., "Tom Jobe" <tomjobe@> wrote:
>
> Hi Phil,
> A free 465B is a wonderful thing!
> From my own experiences and reading the Tekscopes group for years, maybe consider starting by checking the resistance to ground at each power supply test point, then go looking for some of those pesky tantalums in the 10uF to 47uF range on the shorted supply(s).
> The tantalums make the bad smells when they die, more so than the electrolytics.
> Maybe someone has a list of expected resistances for the voltage test points on a 465B ?
> tom jobe...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: pdxareaid
> To: TekScopes@...
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:42 PM
> Subject: [TekScopes] WooHoo! 465B
>
>
>
> I just picked up a 465B off Craigslist. Came with 10x probe.
>
> the ad:
> "Unit was working, then stored for 3 or 4 years. When I turned it on recently, it died. There's a beam, but no sweep. It worked well before that. I was hoping someone would want to fix it and put it to good use. Free."
>
> Nice guy...engineer...just did not want to deal with it.
> He mentioned electrical burning smell when turning on.
>
> I got it home and spent 10 minutes with it...opened it up and turned it on. Burning smell coming from PS section I think. Whole screen glows off and on, no trace to speak of.
> It is in excellent shape otherwise, calibration stickers all over it.
>
> I am thinking PS filter caps to start, then tantalum and electrolytic search after that.
> Phil
>

arggg...i fogot to poke the trigger view. one last trip out there right now.


--- In TekScopes@..., "Brad King" <cpgixxer@> wrote:

Trigger view as far as I know detaches the vertical pre from the circuit. The service manuals have block diagrams to help segregate the circuit to narrow it down.
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "pdxareaid" <public_email@>
Sender: TekScopes@...
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 21:48:37
To: <TekScopes@...>
Reply-To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B

lol..i have not had time to do much of anything with it yet (only had it a couple of hours) but i can't resist dropping everything and running out to poke it with these tips rolling in...

when the screen is glowing, none of the controls seems to affect it and it generally lights up the whole screen.

using the beamfinder, i get a bright dot that jumps around and in and out of what looks like it might be trying to show me a reasonable beamfinder display, but severely shift off screen to the right.
the position controls seem to affect it but not in a consistent way...but there is some effect.
all of the beamfinder action appears to be on the right half of the screen.
phil

ps. i'm going to be in trouble if i don't finish some other stuff today...i'll leave poking it again til tomorrow but will check in to soak up the tips for when i do get out there.
thanks for all the help. keep em coming :-)




--- In TekScopes@..., "Brad King" <cpgixxer@> wrote:

The glow is because the trace isn't centered, could be a bad resistor or transistor in the vertical. Does it move h or v with the adjustment? Did you try pressing the trigger view button?
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "pdxareaid" <public_email@>
Sender: TekScopes@...
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 21:25:55
To: <TekScopes@...>
Reply-To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B


ah, the beamfinder...never was very fond of it. now maybe i see why it is there. thanks for the tip.

sweep rate does not seem to affect anything.

beamfinder:
I got the usual bright connected 2 (i assume) point display but severely shifted to the right such that only 1/2 of the expected display is on the screen.
curiously, when i tried that, and released the beamfinder, i got a bright point on the display rather than a full screen glow. then it went back to the glow.
i tried the beamfinder a few more times and it seemed to start bringing something back from the dead. i even saw it flash what looked like it might have been a reasonable trace...but it disappeared very quickly.
the burning smell was making me nervous so i shut it down.

are these useful clues?


--- In TekScopes@..., larrys@ wrote:

"pdxareaid" <public_email@> wrote:

Whole screen glows off and on, no trace to speak of.

Does the rate of the on / off vary with the sweep speed setting?
Sounds like you may have a trace, just offscreen. See if the
beamfinder shows it too you.

-ls-

I was also surprised by the garden variety relays. Tek must have characterized them and also, they must be fairly consistent from lot to lot.

Somewhere I read about poor return loss into the TDS input ports. Just for fun I examined mine and while I can't recall the numbers, they weren't that bad (for a scope).

Dan, Good point on the preheating of the substrates. I did this on one and then stopped. The substrates were still warm from removal of the relay leg "stubs" after cutting and from cleanup with solder-wick.

I'm not sure what metal shield (as return path) you'r referring to. I thought all connections to the hybrids were via the gold plated fuzz-buttons in the plastic carrier plates.

Den



--- In TekScopes@..., "mickeyaslam" <mickeyaslam@> wrote:

When I first saw the relays I was shocked that Tektronix is using cheap relays for supposedly high end test equipment. Same goes for electrolytic caps.

--- In TekScopes@..., "Dan Meeks" <dan-meeks@> wrote:

There was a known issue with some TDS scopes caused by poor solder on the
metal shield on the ceramic attenuator boards. The legs on that shield
provide the ground return for the relays. So a bad solder joint can cause
all sorts of odd front-end issues.

Be aware that re-soldering is tricky because of the ceramic. If you can't
pre-heat the board, be careful and don't apply too much heat from the
soldering iron or it will crack. I have soldered a bunch of these, so it's
not a super-high risky thing, but just be careful.

Dan

----- Original Message -----

From: pdxareaid

To: TekScopes@...

Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 2:04 PM

Subject: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B

?

thanks for the tip. i did not know tantalums smelled.
i'll probably hit big filter caps anyway...i had a bad experience with them in a 465M among other PS components. i have the service manual etc. need to read up and start checking things in and around ps. afraid to leave it on and have failures cascade. quick voltage measurements to start.
i understand failed tants are pretty easy to spot. they fail shorted usually? is that right?
phil

--- In TekScopes@..., "Tom Jobe" <tomjobe@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Phil,
> A free 465B is a wonderful thing!
> From my own experiences and reading the Tekscopes group for years, maybe consider starting by checking the resistance to ground at each power supply test point, then go looking for some of those pesky tantalums in the 10uF to 47uF range on the shorted supply(s).
> The tantalums make the bad smells when they die, more so than the electrolytics.
> Maybe someone has a list of expected resistances for the voltage test points on a 465B ?
> tom jobe...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: pdxareaid
> To: TekScopes@...
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:42 PM
> Subject: [TekScopes] WooHoo! 465B
>
>
>
> I just picked up a 465B off Craigslist. Came with 10x probe.
>
> the ad:
> "Unit was working, then stored for 3 or 4 years. When I turned it on recently, it died. There's a beam, but no sweep. It worked well before that. I was hoping someone would want to fix it and put it to good use. Free."
>
> Nice guy...engineer...just did not want to deal with it.
> He mentioned electrical burning smell when turning on.
>
> I got it home and spent 10 minutes with it...opened it up and turned it on. Burning smell coming from PS section I think. Whole screen glows off and on, no trace to speak of.
> It is in excellent shape otherwise, calibration stickers all over it.
>
> I am thinking PS filter caps to start, then tantalum and electrolytic search after that.
> Phil
>

----- Original Message -----

From: pdxareaid

To: TekScopes@...

Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 2:04 PM

Subject: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B

?

thanks for the tip. i did not know tantalums smelled.
i'll probably hit big filter caps anyway...i had a bad experience with them in a 465M among other PS components. i have the service manual etc. need to read up and start checking things in and around ps. afraid to leave it on and have failures cascade. quick voltage measurements to start.
i understand failed tants are pretty easy to spot. they fail shorted usually? is that right?
phil

--- In TekScopes@..., "Tom Jobe" wrote:
>
> Hi Phil,
> A free 465B is a wonderful thing!
> From my own experiences and reading the Tekscopes group for years, maybe consider starting by checking the resistance to ground at each power supply test point, then go looking for some of those pesky tantalums in the 10uF to 47uF range on the shorted supply(s).
> The tantalums make the bad smells when they die, more so than the electrolytics.
> Maybe someone has a list of expected resistances for the voltage test points on a 465B ?
> tom jobe...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: pdxareaid
> To: TekScopes@...
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:42 PM
> Subject: [TekScopes] WooHoo! 465B
>
>
>
> I just picked up a 465B off Craigslist. Came with 10x probe.
>
> the ad:
> "Unit was working, then stored for 3 or 4 years. When I turned it on recently, it died. There's a beam, but no sweep. It worked well before that. I was hoping someone would want to fix it and put it to good use. Free."
>
> Nice guy...engineer...just did not want to deal with it.
> He mentioned electrical burning smell when turning on.
>
> I got it home and spent 10 minutes with it...opened it up and turned it on. Burning smell coming from PS section I think. Whole screen glows off and on, no trace to speak of.
> It is in excellent shape otherwise, calibration stickers all over it.
>
> I am thinking PS filter caps to start, then tantalum and electrolytic search after that.
> Phil
>

When I first saw the relays I was shocked that Tektronix is using cheap relays for supposedly high end test equipment. Same goes for electrolytic caps.

--- In TekScopes@..., "Dan Meeks" <dan-meeks@> wrote:

There was a known issue with some TDS scopes caused by poor solder on the
metal shield on the ceramic attenuator boards. The legs on that shield
provide the ground return for the relays. So a bad solder joint can cause
all sorts of odd front-end issues.

Be aware that re-soldering is tricky because of the ceramic. If you can't
pre-heat the board, be careful and don't apply too much heat from the
soldering iron or it will crack. I have soldered a bunch of these, so it's
not a super-high risky thing, but just be careful.

Dan

Trigger view as far as I know detaches the vertical pre from the circuit. The service manuals have block diagrams to help segregate the circuit to narrow it down.
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "pdxareaid" <public_email@...>
Sender: TekScopes@...
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 21:48:37
To: <TekScopes@...>
Reply-To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B

lol..i have not had time to do much of anything with it yet (only had it a couple of hours) but i can't resist dropping everything and running out to poke it with these tips rolling in...

when the screen is glowing, none of the controls seems to affect it and it generally lights up the whole screen.

using the beamfinder, i get a bright dot that jumps around and in and out of what looks like it might be trying to show me a reasonable beamfinder display, but severely shift off screen to the right.
the position controls seem to affect it but not in a consistent way...but there is some effect.
all of the beamfinder action appears to be on the right half of the screen.
phil

ps. i'm going to be in trouble if i don't finish some other stuff today...i'll leave poking it again til tomorrow but will check in to soak up the tips for when i do get out there.
thanks for all the help. keep em coming :-)




--- In TekScopes@..., "Brad King" <cpgixxer@> wrote:

The glow is because the trace isn't centered, could be a bad resistor or transistor in the vertical. Does it move h or v with the adjustment? Did you try pressing the trigger view button?
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "pdxareaid" <public_email@>
Sender: TekScopes@...
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 21:25:55
To: <TekScopes@...>
Reply-To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B


ah, the beamfinder...never was very fond of it. now maybe i see why it is there. thanks for the tip.

sweep rate does not seem to affect anything.

beamfinder:
I got the usual bright connected 2 (i assume) point display but severely shifted to the right such that only 1/2 of the expected display is on the screen.
curiously, when i tried that, and released the beamfinder, i got a bright point on the display rather than a full screen glow. then it went back to the glow.
i tried the beamfinder a few more times and it seemed to start bringing something back from the dead. i even saw it flash what looked like it might have been a reasonable trace...but it disappeared very quickly.
the burning smell was making me nervous so i shut it down.

are these useful clues?


--- In TekScopes@..., larrys@ wrote:

"pdxareaid" <public_email@> wrote:

Whole screen glows off and on, no trace to speak of.

Does the rate of the on / off vary with the sweep speed setting?
Sounds like you may have a trace, just offscreen. See if the
beamfinder shows it too you.

-ls-

The glow is because the trace isn't centered, could be a bad resistor or transistor in the vertical. Does it move h or v with the adjustment? Did you try pressing the trigger view button?
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "pdxareaid" <public_email@...>
Sender: TekScopes@...
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 21:25:55
To: <TekScopes@...>
Reply-To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B


ah, the beamfinder...never was very fond of it. now maybe i see why it is there. thanks for the tip.

sweep rate does not seem to affect anything.

beamfinder:
I got the usual bright connected 2 (i assume) point display but severely shifted to the right such that only 1/2 of the expected display is on the screen.
curiously, when i tried that, and released the beamfinder, i got a bright point on the display rather than a full screen glow. then it went back to the glow.
i tried the beamfinder a few more times and it seemed to start bringing something back from the dead. i even saw it flash what looked like it might have been a reasonable trace...but it disappeared very quickly.
the burning smell was making me nervous so i shut it down.

are these useful clues?


--- In TekScopes@..., larrys@ wrote:

"pdxareaid" <public_email@> wrote:

Whole screen glows off and on, no trace to speak of.

Does the rate of the on / off vary with the sweep speed setting?
Sounds like you may have a trace, just offscreen. See if the
beamfinder shows it too you.

-ls-

----- Original Message -----

From: pdxareaid

To: TekScopes@...

Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 2:04 PM

Subject: [TekScopes] Re: WooHoo! 465B

?

thanks for the tip. i did not know tantalums smelled.
i'll probably hit big filter caps anyway...i had a bad experience with them in a 465M among other PS components. i have the service manual etc. need to read up and start checking things in and around ps. afraid to leave it on and have failures cascade. quick voltage measurements to start.
i understand failed tants are pretty easy to spot. they fail shorted usually? is that right?
phil

--- In TekScopes@..., "Tom Jobe" >
> Hi Phil,
> A free 465B is a wonderful thing!
> From my own experiences and reading the Tekscopes group for years, maybe consider starting by checking the resistance to ground at each power supply test point, then go looking for some of those pesky tantalums in the 10uF to 47uF range on the shorted supply(s).
> The tantalums make the bad smells when they die, more so than the electrolytics.
> Maybe someone has a list of expected resistances for the voltage test points on a 465B ?
> tom jobe...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: pdxareaid
> To: TekScopes@...
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:42 PM
> Subject: [TekScopes] WooHoo! 465B
>
>
>
> I just picked up a 465B off Craigslist. Came with 10x probe.
>
> the ad:
> "Unit was working, then stored for 3 or 4 years. When I turned it on recently, it died. There's a beam, but no sweep. It worked well before that. I was hoping someone would want to fix it and put it to good use. Free."
>
> Nice guy...engineer...just did not want to deal with it.
> He mentioned electrical burning smell when turning on.
>
> I got it home and spent 10 minutes with it...opened it up and turned it on. Burning smell coming from PS section I think. Whole screen glows off and on, no trace to speak of.
> It is in excellent shape otherwise, calibration stickers all over it.
>
> I am thinking PS filter caps to start, then tantalum and electrolytic search after that.
> Phil
>