Re: PCBway used my design
Hi David,
Are you referring to this ebay item, the seller is "Hollywood Controls" in Arizona:
In the description, it mentions a derived design from "AMC184" on eevblog back from 2014. I've done a small search:
Not to offend you if you're indeed the original designer, but it looks like a rather simple 2 layers through hole board .
With photos alone, using Kicad, it will probably take me less than an afternoon to make an exact copy.
It rather looks like a guy decided to do a derived/similar/copy design and sell it.
You're making serious accusation regarding pcbway, are you sure you have double checked everything?
Best regards,
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Re: PCBway used my design
Good catch!
Even without those terms, for the value of IP in any of our small projects it isn't worth pursuing a copyright claim.? If you have a product which is important then you begin reading the terms and select vendors appropriately.
Peter
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On 12/24/2023 2:08 PM, Veronica Merryfield wrote: In their small print here
1.Intellectual property rights and publicity
(a)By providing data to PCBWay, You grant PCBWay an irrevocable, non-exclusive, perpetual, royalty-free, fully paid up, worldwide, transferable and sub-licensable right and license to use, copy, modify, reproduce, distribute and display the data (including PCB files,3D CAD data and drawings), documentation, drawings and specifications You provide for manufacturing the Parts: (i) as necessary to produce, ship and sell the Parts to You and (ii) to improve our products and services, including, improving our machine learning and pricing algorithms. You hereby irrevocably waive (and agree to cause to be waived) any claims and assertions of moral rights or attribution with respect to Your data.
(b)By placing an Order, You authorize PCBWay to use Your trademarks, logos, name or signs for marketing purposes. This means that PCBWay may mention You as a customer of PCBWay on our website and in other promotional material such as advertising, press releases, interviews, promotional materials or presentations. We will not use Your name if You are a natural person, and the substantive content provided by You continues to be governed by the confidentiality clauses in these Privacy Policy & Agreement.
I have kept away from them for most projects for this reason.
Take good care
--
Veronica Merryfield (Ms/she/her)
On Dec 24, 2023, at 2:43 PM, david via groups.io <davide_us@...> wrote:
?This post does not apply to any of my Tektronix equipment, But I thought you guys should know about this.
In December of 2017 I designed a 10 MHz standard for my 5316A HP Counter. I had the PCB made by PCBway in China. Today I found my PCB design being sold on Ebay by a seller named Hollywood Controls. Item number is 155741314023. I have posted two JPG files named 10MHz Standard, and PCBway ship date, In folder named PCBway. Compare my design to the one being sold on Ebay and you will see that they had to use my PCB design. It had to come from PCBway. BE WARNED, YOUR DESIGNS ARE NOT SAFE AT PCBway.
David
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Re: TDS30xx OMG.. Are these all broken ?
Many of us, myself included, would say the same thing, Dale.
Jim Ford
Laguna Hills, California, USA
"And we know that God causes all things to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them." Romans 8:28 (NLT)
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------ Original Message ------ From "Dale H. Cook" <bridgewaterma@...> To [email protected]Date 12/24/2023 6:19:09 AM Subject Re: [TekScopes] TDS30xx OMG.. Are these all broken ? On 12/24/2023 6:41 AM, amirb wrote:
Certainly it wouldn't be a 10 min job at all. Believe me
perhaps that might have been true for old equipment with tons of transistor circuits and analog ICs and much simpler logic ICs. And some people wonder why I like my '70s-'80's instruments. The reason why is simple - I can repair and calibrate them.
-- Dale H. Cook, GR/HP/Tek Collector, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA
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Re: PCBway used my design
Anything sent to China is likely to be copied if someone there sees a way to make money from it.
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On 12/24/2023 1:42 PM, david via groups.io wrote: This post does not apply to any of my Tektronix equipment, But I thought you guys should know about this.
In December of 2017 I designed a 10 MHz standard for my 5316A HP Counter. I had the PCB made by PCBway in China. Today I found my PCB design being sold on Ebay by a seller named Hollywood Controls. Item number is 155741314023. I have posted two JPG files named 10MHz Standard, and PCBway ship date, In folder named PCBway. Compare my design to the one being sold on Ebay and you will see that they had to use my PCB design. It had to come from PCBway. BE WARNED, YOUR DESIGNS ARE NOT SAFE AT PCBway.
David
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Re: PCBway used my design
In their small print here
1.Intellectual property rights and publicity
(a)By providing data to PCBWay, You grant PCBWay an irrevocable, non-exclusive, perpetual, royalty-free, fully paid up, worldwide, transferable and sub-licensable right and license to use, copy, modify, reproduce, distribute and display the data (including PCB files,3D CAD data and drawings), documentation, drawings and specifications You provide for manufacturing the Parts: (i) as necessary to produce, ship and sell the Parts to You and (ii) to improve our products and services, including, improving our machine learning and pricing algorithms. You hereby irrevocably waive (and agree to cause to be waived) any claims and assertions of moral rights or attribution with respect to Your data.
(b)By placing an Order, You authorize PCBWay to use Your trademarks, logos, name or signs for marketing purposes. This means that PCBWay may mention You as a customer of PCBWay on our website and in other promotional material such as advertising, press releases, interviews, promotional materials or presentations. We will not use Your name if You are a natural person, and the substantive content provided by You continues to be governed by the confidentiality clauses in these Privacy Policy & Agreement.
I have kept away from them for most projects for this reason.
Take good care
--
Veronica Merryfield (Ms/she/her)
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On Dec 24, 2023, at 2:43 PM, david via groups.io <davide_us@...> wrote:
?This post does not apply to any of my Tektronix equipment, But I thought you guys should know about this.
In December of 2017 I designed a 10 MHz standard for my 5316A HP Counter. I had the PCB made by PCBway in China. Today I found my PCB design being sold on Ebay by a seller named Hollywood Controls. Item number is 155741314023. I have posted two JPG files named 10MHz Standard, and PCBway ship date, In folder named PCBway. Compare my design to the one being sold on Ebay and you will see that they had to use my PCB design. It had to come from PCBway. BE WARNED, YOUR DESIGNS ARE NOT SAFE AT PCBway.
David
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Re: PCBway used my design
Yeah, I just posted another photo of the actual PCB design they took. First picture 10MHz standard was my last revision to board. I just finished a revision that uses SMD components and was searching for the OCXO I used on PCB. The first thing that came up was my old design being sold on Ebay. I had a hunch that the Chinese couldn't be trusted, our designs are not patent protected.
David
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This post does not apply to any of my Tektronix equipment, But I thought you guys should know about this.
In December of 2017 I designed a 10 MHz standard for my 5316A HP Counter. I had the PCB made by PCBway in China. Today I found my PCB design being sold on Ebay by a seller named Hollywood Controls. Item number is 155741314023. I have posted two JPG files named 10MHz Standard, and PCBway ship date, In folder named PCBway. Compare my design to the one being sold on Ebay and you will see that they had to use my PCB design. It had to come from PCBway. BE WARNED, YOUR DESIGNS ARE NOT SAFE AT PCBway.
David
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Re: Tektronix 2230 - no readout
Hello All, I decided to revise this thread for a reason I will get into shortly. But to start, I recently purchased a 2230 on eBay. I bought it knowing it was non-working. I thought it would make a 'fun' project to try to repair it - I never repaired an oscilloscope before and I thought it would help me to learn more about how they work in the process. This scope is in real bad shape. Someone had attempted to repair it before. There are a few broken knobs including the Ch2 volts/div knob. There were several jumper wires and components desoldered, the attenuators were removed, the list goes on and on. The fault that occurs under normal operating conditions is the following: When I power it up, the CRT displays these squares with triangles in each corner. I cannot find an example of this readout anywhere in the service manual. I have only seen one example of it online, but no one was able to clearly define what it is. Some speculated it is stuck in some kind of test mode. None of the controls change the display except the horizontal positioning knob (moves the squares side to side), the intensity readout (dims or brightens them) and the focus knob. I can make the squares disappear by isolating the analog (procedure provided in the service manual) or just by disconnecting J9210 which connects directly to the display controller U9208. I decided to start on the analog portion of the scope and after several repairs to the attenuator and timing boards, I was able to successfully probe the 'probe adjust' square wave. But I need to wait for the new attenuators to come in to fully test the analog portion of the scope, so I decided to start work on the digital side. This brings me to why I revived this thread. So I decided to start first by isolating the kernel (via procedure in service manual). The manual provides timing waveforms for U9112 and U9114. Like Bert, I also noticed a discrepancy what the manual provides vs what I was observing. It would be easier just to show a photo of what I mean. I have attached a snapshot of pg 6-9 of the service manual with the isolated kernel timing waveforms with my annotations here ( /g/TekScopes/album?id=291820). I guess what I am getting at is, is this a typo on Tek's part or some issue with the scope? I find it interesting that Bert also noticed a descrepancy, but for a completely different kind of fault. Granted, the copy of the service manual I have is poor resolution. I ordered a hardcopy of the manual on ebay so I can get a clearer view of the waveforms on the left. Anyway, has anyone seen this fault symptom before? If so, does anyone have any suggestions on where I should look/troubleshoot? I am documenting this repair on my YT channel. Would greatly appreciate anyone's suggestions/input. Part 1 (visual inspection, example of fault symptom) Part 2 ( repair of attenuator and timing boards, successful probing of 'probe adj') Thanks in advance and happy holidays! -Frank
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Added photo album Tek 2230 Isolated Kernel Timing Revised
#photo-notice
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Re: 7CT1N mods or upgrades ?
Curious! I thought I'd better check mine out and I found C32 marked as "100-25DC" (which is as expected according to the manual), but C30 is marked "10-100DC" which seems somewhat odd! It also has "30D" written on it separately.
S/N for the unit is B053243 and both caps are Sprague with date codes appearing to be around 1979.
Clearly the schematic shows +/- 30V DC applied to these caps so I guess it would be desirable to change them forthwith even though so far no problem has ocurred.
Thanks for that Hakan.
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Re: TDS30xx OMG.. Are these all broken ?
On 12/24/2023 6:41 AM, amirb wrote: Certainly it wouldn't be a 10 min job at all. Believe me
perhaps that might have been true for old equipment with tons of transistor circuits and analog ICs and much simpler logic ICs. And some people wonder why I like my '70s-'80's instruments. The reason why is simple - I can repair and calibrate them. -- Dale H. Cook, GR/HP/Tek Collector, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA
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Re: TDS30xx OMG.. Are these all broken ?
a lot of the weird issues that I have seen over the years in various models of Tektronix scopes from 2000 up to 2015 or so that had no other explanation
have ended up being due to RAM chips (or bad soldering of BGA chips to a lesser extent)
from all the description given, I can say with 80-90% confidence it's a ram issue. one if the SDRAM chips is going haywire.
I have seen cases that only a certain small range of addresses in a SDRAM IC had problem! very hard to find.
and no, even if you had the schematics it wouldn't help you that much. Certainly it wouldn't be a 10 min job at all. Believe me
perhaps that might have been true for old equipment with tons of transistor circuits and analog ICs and much simpler logic ICs...
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Re: TDS30xx OMG.. Are these all broken ?
Yea I thought easy things the front panel going dead. Checked all the supplies on the main board, all perfect, no change in voltages, no change in the very low noise on the rails. I monitored the voltage supplied to the front panel board as well, stays the exact same and no increase in noise. I do not have a connector pinout for that front panel board and that would help. *think* there are I2C like data lines that go up and interface with the main CPU somehow. But this connector has a lot of pins considering there is a controller chip on the front panel board. You would think the whole board could communicate its data on one I2C bus of 2 lines and gnd.
Tracing the lines on the board is no easy matter, they change sides a lot. They seem to terminate up below the CPU where there are a number of resistor/cap combos like pull up and filtering. So sure somethere there could go wrong, but none of that gets warmer. The only thing that gets warmer it the CPU and of course power supply stuff. On a really deep level std chips like logic arrays could get warmer and do weird things, I have never seen that, but, maybe.
I am awaiting freeze spray next week. By using spraying and dropping little tiny drops of freeze liquid I should be able to locate better the issue.
I did use a heat gun on that area. Like seriously. It caused it to work for 15 mins. Which was weird.
I can't easily probe the area I need to. So its hard to see exactly what is going on.
Thermal is almost always a cap power supply related or a solder joint. I have seen a few transistors get weird thermally. I just never remember seeing a chip get weird thermally like this.
I really need to see the datalines on a scope. I may work out a way to better look at this. I have never done this, but, I think I can remove the whole power supply and maybe feed the main board directly from 15V ? If I dont need that ribbon cable from the power supply to the main board, I think its ethernet, then I think I can get the power supply away from the main board and still have it work.
Its acting like the data-lines are somehow dropping in voltage getting sketchy and then gone completely. OR the CPU is less sensitive and cant see them well.
If I had a schematic, this would be a 10 mins fix. But Nooooooooooooo.......
And then this other board issue.. I have not even begun to think that thru yet. Only positive spikes away from zero. Random but low frequency.. However the spike seems infinatly short. Its a weird symptom. Its both channels evenly. The spikes occur on both ch1 and ch2 exactly the same in time. 500mv scale and below no issues and in calibration. There may also be a high noise floor on the 1V up scales.
Not sure what would affect only the 1V up scale AND only on the positive side AND both channels. That seems deep enough to be some freakyness in the ADC chipsets. Might be something analog maybe but hard to explain the zero width pulses. Those look like data errors or something.
Both problems are hard. For now I have the boards leaning towards scrap.
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Re: TDS30xx OMG.. Are these all broken ?
I had one I used for quite a while with no problems.? I wonder if something like capacitor issues?
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On 12/23/2023 11:41 PM, K7XYM via groups.io wrote: So I have lots of anaog Tek stuff. Highly refurbished and upgraded 7904s and I think most every plug in. I have most all of the TM500/5000 stuff I will ever need. Mostly this stuff worked right away off ebay and then I would refurbish and make near new. Service manuals make this easy. Well,, except for the occasional custom IC,, everything I bought got fix and I have in my lab in use.
BUT I needed a digital scope.. No prob I thought.. Just grab a TDS3012B for fairly cheap off ebay. These are way newer and not much to fail.
Wow was i wrong... You guys should let me know if my luck is just really bad or do these scopes have serious failure rates ?
First scope looked great. Self test perfect. Calibration perfect. Everything worked except one knob had issues. I expected a knob issue after researching and knew how to fix it. So this was great.. UNTIL I let it run for 40 mins.. After warm up the front panel controls died and the LEDS all flashed.. It worked in every other way. I could control it via IEEE or e-scope. Just lost complete control from the front panel. After exaustive work, its something on the main board. Not power supply as all voltages on the main board at the chips involved are fine. I also swaped supplies. I swapped front panel boards. Nope. Its the main board and its complex as its something going on on the data lines to the front panel and these are hard to probe close to the CPU chip. It could be the CPU is wonky.
So that main board is pretty much hopeless..
So I bought another one, they said fully tested. Indeed when i got it I fully tested and it was great.. In calibration... BUT THEN.. about 15 mins of on tine and dense positive going spikes appeared on the waveform with no input that were full scale that caused triggering and measured full scale even with no input. Both inputs. ONLY ON SCALES ABOVE 1V.. 500mv and down is perfect. Again its a thermal issue and easily missed with a quick check. Not the power supply. Its obviously a complex main board issue that might even be a ADC chip set issue.
So I am batting 0 so far.. 2 junked main boards.. I was able to clean up 2 front boards tho. I got removing and cleaning the rotary encoders down great.
So I now have a 3rd unit coming. This time from someone who knows these scopes I am talking to about these issues. So hopefully the 3rd is the charm..
So no schematics ? No one has come up with anything ?
Are these things really that bad ? Are there lots of main boards in the trash ? Anyone have one they know works they might want to sell me ?
Sorry for the rant..
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TDS30xx OMG.. Are these all broken ?
So I have lots of anaog Tek stuff. Highly refurbished and upgraded 7904s and I think most every plug in. I have most all of the TM500/5000 stuff I will ever need. Mostly this stuff worked right away off ebay and then I would refurbish and make near new. Service manuals make this easy. Well,, except for the occasional custom IC,, everything I bought got fix and I have in my lab in use.
BUT I needed a digital scope.. No prob I thought.. Just grab a TDS3012B for fairly cheap off ebay. These are way newer and not much to fail.
Wow was i wrong... You guys should let me know if my luck is just really bad or do these scopes have serious failure rates ?
First scope looked great. Self test perfect. Calibration perfect. Everything worked except one knob had issues. I expected a knob issue after researching and knew how to fix it. So this was great.. UNTIL I let it run for 40 mins.. After warm up the front panel controls died and the LEDS all flashed.. It worked in every other way. I could control it via IEEE or e-scope. Just lost complete control from the front panel. After exaustive work, its something on the main board. Not power supply as all voltages on the main board at the chips involved are fine. I also swaped supplies. I swapped front panel boards. Nope. Its the main board and its complex as its something going on on the data lines to the front panel and these are hard to probe close to the CPU chip. It could be the CPU is wonky.
So that main board is pretty much hopeless..
So I bought another one, they said fully tested. Indeed when i got it I fully tested and it was great.. In calibration... BUT THEN.. about 15 mins of on tine and dense positive going spikes appeared on the waveform with no input that were full scale that caused triggering and measured full scale even with no input. Both inputs. ONLY ON SCALES ABOVE 1V.. 500mv and down is perfect. Again its a thermal issue and easily missed with a quick check. Not the power supply. Its obviously a complex main board issue that might even be a ADC chip set issue.
So I am batting 0 so far.. 2 junked main boards.. I was able to clean up 2 front boards tho. I got removing and cleaning the rotary encoders down great.
So I now have a 3rd unit coming. This time from someone who knows these scopes I am talking to about these issues. So hopefully the 3rd is the charm..
So no schematics ? No one has come up with anything ?
Are these things really that bad ? Are there lots of main boards in the trash ? Anyone have one they know works they might want to sell me ?
Sorry for the rant..
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Re: 7CT1N mods or upgrades ?
It’s one thing to find a list of mods but surfacing the Telex that lit the fire to process the mod is pure style!
Well done, Zenith!
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Re: 7CT1N mods or upgrades ?
On 12/23/23 19:09, Clark Foley wrote: Great find! Or, "good save!"
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Re: Alternative Equipment/Procedures for Performance Checks/Calibration of Tektronix 2230 scope
On 12/23/2023 5:27 PM, Sigur?ur ?sgeirsson wrote: As a rule
of thumb, you want your calibration instruments to be 10X better specified
than your instrument under calibration. Siggi - Thank you for providing a more detailed response to Frankie than I did. The point I quoted above is a rule that anyone needs to understand before undertaking a calibration. I have known it for decades, and I strongly suspect that you have also known it for decades. -- Dale H. Cook, GR/HP/Tek Collector, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA
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Re: Alternative Equipment/Procedures for Performance Checks/Calibration of Tektronix 2230 scope
There are ways to get the scope *mostly* calibrated.? Some of the TM500 functions can be duplicated, with some success.
A decent crystal oscillator, feeding an FPGA, or a series of decimal counters (use 74LS90 equivalents with a divide by 2 then divide by 5 to get 10, 5, 1, and throw in a switchable /2 for 2) for a timebase calibration.? Possibly an AVR timer fed from a crystal can do a lot of this.
100 Mhz gets you 10 ns/pulse, figure from there.
A CMOS switch working from a well known reference (good 10 volts and down) will calibrate the lower ranges of the vertical channel.
AC calibration is going to be a problem, but not too much you can do with cheap stuff.
bandwidth, should you pursue it, can be done with fast rise time pulsers.
So you have built the function (however limited) of a TG501, part of the function of the PG506, using a function generator and a meter might get you part of the function of an SG502 and SG503.
Is it a cal lab?? nope.? Can it be inexpensive?? Yep.
Harvey
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On 12/23/2023 8:53 PM, fmashockie@... wrote: Thank you Siggi and Dale for your comments! Yes Siggi my goal for this scope is just to get it back up and running again at the moment lol. But long term, it will not be used for any critical measurements - just for hobbyist projects. I think I will see what I performance checks/adjustments I can perform with my Wavetek 275 then, and go from there. Thanks!
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Re: Quality Resolution Service Manual For Tek 2230
Try ArtekManuals:
He is known for high quality scans.
Peter
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On 12/23/2023 8:55 PM, fmashockie@... wrote: Hi All,
I am attempting to repair a 2230 oscilloscope and I cannot seem to find a copy of the service manual with quality resolution of the provided waveforms throughout the manual. Many of them are unreadable. Does anyone know where I can acquire an electronic copy with better resolution? Ideally for free, but I'd be willing to pay if price is fair as well.
Thanks!
-Frank
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Frank Mashockie
Dale H. Cook