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Re: Tek 2225 that wont power up after a knock :-(

 

Yes, that is the one I found ... the one that refers to Q9070 which I cannot find on my schematic.

Dave

On 17/03/2021 08:13, satbeginner wrote:
Hi David,

here is the link to the original document made by Hakan (aka Zenith):



Hope this helps,

Leo





Re: Tek 2225 that wont power up after a knock :-(

 

Hi David,

here is the link to the original document made by Hakan (aka Zenith):



Hope this helps,

Leo


Re: 7M13 buttons

 

For the record I find it is Tek part no. 670-2940-00. It is given in the components list, not the hardware list.

The 7A12 parts Dennis mentions are 670-1077-01 and 670-1084-01, right and left respectively, and include a PCB at the inner end.

EJP


Re: Very Inexpensive 7623A, but Problems

 

Hi Jeff,
I only looked at the power supply schematic briefly but I can't see a +40V supply feeding the mainframe. Only +40V label I can see is at pin 7 of P890 but it is expected to be around +29.7V so if it is the supply you are measuring +26V it is not off.

However, it is unexpected to have +50V being off and +130V spot on because +50V is the reference for +130V supply.

Are you sure you have good connectivity between -50V (P900-2) and -50V sense (P901-1, triangle) pins through the mainframe connector? If somehow that connection is not low resistance (essentially zero ohms) -50V would be off, which would cause all other supplies to be off. You may want to attach a wire between those two points to test -50V. I assume you already adjusted R881 as much as it turns.

Same applies to all the sense points, they should be connected to their supplies with low resistance in the mainframe. You may have dirty contacts or bad solder junctions in some of them.
Ozan


I had my first experience with letting the magic smoke out of something
tonight.

The new filter caps finally arrived from Mouser and I replaced C806. I then
put the power supply partly back into the instrument. I didn't bother to
connect the main interface board or the back panel inputs and outputs as I was
only interested in whether the power rails were good. I should have connected
even less and just examined the rails coming off the unregulated supply, but I
did connect up the power cables going to the LV regulator and the horizontal
board.

Most of the power rails were still off as I saw them last time: everyone other
than the +130 and +40 rails were high, +130 is basically spot on, and +40 is
still very low.

While I was probing the power supply however, I heard a clicking sound and
smelled smoke. One of the resistors on the horizontal board had burned up.
Checking the manual it's R578, which is a 1/2 W, 2.5 K ohms film resistor,
which I have replacements for in stock. I checked Q578 in the component
checker and it looks like it survived the experience, as did several other
transistors in the same area, so maybe I didn't kill things too badly.

Regardless, the failure to fix the low +40 V rail combined with burning up a
component on another board has taken the wind out of my sails for the evening.
Maybe I'm learning things, but this is NOT proving to be as enjoyable an
experience as working on the 475 and 475A had been.

One lesson I'm taking away from this is that I should not reconnect the power
supply to the rest of the machine until I am sure that I've fixed the parts
I'm trying to fix.

-- Jeff Dutky


Re: Very Inexpensive 7623A, but Problems

 

I had my first experience with letting the magic smoke out of something tonight.

The new filter caps finally arrived from Mouser and I replaced C806. I then put the power supply partly back into the instrument. I didn't bother to connect the main interface board or the back panel inputs and outputs as I was only interested in whether the power rails were good. I should have connected even less and just examined the rails coming off the unregulated supply, but I did connect up the power cables going to the LV regulator and the horizontal board.

Most of the power rails were still off as I saw them last time: everyone other than the +130 and +40 rails were high, +130 is basically spot on, and +40 is still very low.

While I was probing the power supply however, I heard a clicking sound and smelled smoke. One of the resistors on the horizontal board had burned up. Checking the manual it's R578, which is a 1/2 W, 2.5 K ohms film resistor, which I have replacements for in stock. I checked Q578 in the component checker and it looks like it survived the experience, as did several other transistors in the same area, so maybe I didn't kill things too badly.

Regardless, the failure to fix the low +40 V rail combined with burning up a component on another board has taken the wind out of my sails for the evening. Maybe I'm learning things, but this is NOT proving to be as enjoyable an experience as working on the 475 and 475A had been.

One lesson I'm taking away from this is that I should not reconnect the power supply to the rest of the machine until I am sure that I've fixed the parts I'm trying to fix.

-- Jeff Dutky


Re: Interesting Tek Documentary

 

Oregon Public Broadcasting is the media who produced the program. Public television concerns are known for producing documentaries, you know.

You can pick up a copy from VintageTek store on their ePay site.


Greg


Success! 5S14N becomes 5S14 with readout OUTSTANDING JOB!

 

Hi Szabolcs,
I am VERY impressed with what you are doing. I think what you figured out is extremely clever. I hope this suggests possibilities for other members to think "outside the box" for ways they can extend the capabilities of their Tek instruments.

You are absolutely right that the 7S14 was derived from the 5S14 even though everyone thinks it was the other way around. Both the 5S14 and the 7S14 are brilliant plugins that were designed from scratch to make it possible for people already familiar with how a dual trace delayed sweep scope already works to get 1GHz+ capability in a scope that cost only a few thousand dollars.

In addition to being the only way to get delayed sweep with a sampling plugin (the 7S11 and 7T11) can't do that) it is the only way to do 1GHz X versus 1GHz Y displays - another thing the 7S11 / 7T11 can't do. Last but not least, by far, it triggers reliable with almost no fiddling. With the 7S11 / 7T11 it never takes me less than 30 minutes before I get the dam plugins to trigger the way I want them to.

Keep up the great work!

Dennis Tillman W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Szabolcs Szigeti
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2021 9:34 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Success! 5S14N becomes 5S14 with readout

Hi,

I got some questions on this, so I did a short writeup on it, and also the design files are available from there.


Szabolcs


Szabolcs Szigeti via groups.io <szigiszabolcs@...> ezt ¨ªrta
(id?pont: 2021. m¨¢rc. 7., V, 19:43):

Hi,

I have successfully retrofitted the 5S14N sampling plugin with readout
for use with the 54xx scopes, by basically recreating the 7S14 readout
board and wiring it in, thus creating a 5S14.

See the photos: /g/TekScopes/album?id=261631

If there is any interest, I'm willing to do a little description of
the project, and share the design files.
I have a couple of PCBs which I can give out for the price of the postage.
Mostly probably useful in the EU, elsewhere it will likely be cheaper
just to get them from China.

Let me know if anyone is interested, then I'll take the time in the
coming days to do a writeup on it, as while it is not a complex
project, there were some obstacles, which may be interesting to share.

Szabolcs











--
Dennis Tillman W7pF
TekScopes Moderator


Re: 7M13 buttons

 

Hi Esmond,
The 7M13 has always been one of my favorite plugins for over 35 years because:
* They were always listed at ridiculously cheap prices;
* They were so good for documenting the scope photos I like to take;
* Every time I use it I am reminded of my wonderful friend Barrie Gilbert who invented the On-Screen readout

And now for the bad news: They are not easy to find. So be prepared to search eBay religiously every week so you don't miss one. Fortunately the price should be reasonable when one appears.

I can send you an entire row of 10 pushbutton switches from a 7A12 plugin. The buttons are clear but they look like they are the same shape as the white ones in the 7M13. If that will help you contact me off list.
Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of EJP
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2021 6:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [TekScopes] 7M13 buttons

Just acquired a working 7M13 but the C and H buttons are broken. The 10-way button assembly doesn't have a Tek part number in the manual, it is just listed as an assembly. Is there any source for it? or another solution to the broken buttons? They still function if you probe something in there.

TIA

EJP







--
Dennis Tillman W7pF
TekScopes Moderator


Re: Message from your fearless (foolish?) leader

 

Hi Joe,
Fortunately we don't have a horse any more. When our daughter moved out of the house 15 years ago she took her horse with her. He is still with her. Everywhere Starbucks moves her to, they pay for her horse to be moved as well. It is a fabulous company and they take extremely good care of one of their best employees (and her horse).

Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joe
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 6:30 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Message from your fearless (foolish?) leader

Dennis,
Please forward the best wishes to your wife for a qick recovery and less pain from far away as Germany!
I think it is a new and important experience for many of us to learn what kind of effort it takes to run a family household. In my case this would include to care for four humans, two horses and - most important - two cats!
Keep up the good work Dennis!
Regards, Joe







--
Dennis Tillman W7pF
TekScopes Moderator


Re: Interesting Tek Documentary

 

I don¡¯t think they need rights. It¡¯s in the public domain.


Re: 485 super weak brightness control

 

I cleaned up the HV test point and I get now some 2800V. What makes me
little bit nervous is I don't know if the cause was just the contact
cleaning or if something else have changed. Nevertheless it changed in the
right direction. I think the whole section under the plastic cover needs
cleaning it's covered in black dust.
It may be some conductive residue. HV section have some high M-ohm resistors, any conductive residue will change things. 2800V is low (looking at +50V supply and opamp inputs is still a good debug flow for HV) but probably close enough for intensity debug. Too bright intensity is not good for the screen so it is better to take care of it sooner than later.

I will de-solder the diodes in the DC restorer and measure leakage current.
Before you desolder the diodes, can you check if you can control brightness with "GRID BIAS" adjustment (R1660)? Also, as you change intensity knob, can you control the voltage at "Z OUT DC" test point (TP1781), and at what range?

Ozan


Re: SMB Adaptor (again)

 

The BSM connector for my 3S2 trigger output is cute, but I traded cuteness for "connectability"... I replaced it with an SMA since I couldn't find a BSM to BNC cable anywhere, Tek original or aftermarket.


Re: SMB Adaptor (again)

 

On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 05:24 PM, n4buq wrote:

The mini-BNC (MBNC) connectors are cuter.

They are, but are they as cute as the BSM connectors on certain S heads?


Re: Tek 2225 that wont power up after a knock :-(

 

The doc I found online was called "troubleshooting_tips_on_2200_ps.pdf" but as I said it talked about Q9070 ...

Dave

On 16/03/2021 22:33, David Slipper wrote:
I looked for that document in the files section but failed to find it :-(

I even tried search terms like 22xx and supplies.

I found a doc on line but that talks about Q9070, a FET which isnt on my
schematic.

Dave


On 16/03/2021 21:26, satbeginner wrote:
Hi Ozan,

Try to find in the Files section a document called (I believe) "Repair tips for 22XX power supplies"

I'm not at home now, so I can not look for a direct link right now, but the document made by Hakan, also a member here, described how to eliminate and look for which part of the ps is failing.

Usually it is the first switcher, but the document describes how to test for that.

Let me know if you found the doc.

Leo






Re: Tek 2225 that wont power up after a knock :-(

 

I looked for that document in the files section but failed to find it :-(

I even tried search terms like 22xx and supplies.

I found a doc on line but that talks about Q9070, a FET which isnt on my schematic.

Dave

On 16/03/2021 21:26, satbeginner wrote:
Hi Ozan,

Try to find in the Files section a document called (I believe) "Repair tips for 22XX power supplies"

I'm not at home now, so I can not look for a direct link right now, but the document made by Hakan, also a member here, described how to eliminate and look for which part of the ps is failing.

Usually it is the first switcher, but the document describes how to test for that.

Let me know if you found the doc.

Leo




Re: 485 super weak brightness control

 

Thanks so much for your reply, it makes it much easier to approach.

I cleaned up the HV test point and I get now some 2800V. What makes me
little bit nervous is I don't know if the cause was just the contact
cleaning or if something else have changed. Nevertheless it changed in the
right direction. I think the whole section under the plastic cover needs
cleaning it's covered in black dust.

I will de-solder the diodes in the DC restorer and measure leakage current.

The intensity is too bright

I'll get back to you when I follow up on the other measurements tomorrow.
The HV probe is labeled as HV-40 but can't find any manufacturer markings.
It's definitely from 80s or 70s

On Tue, 16 Mar 2021, 22:42 Ozan, <ozan_g@...> wrote:


I checked the DC recovery diodes in the HV supply as listed in other
thread
(all under the plastic cover and they are ok.
Any other suggestions?
Note that checking the leakage of those diodes is important, just a DVM
diode check doesn't discover problems.

It looks like the behavior of your 485 is different in different settings.
As the first issue are you debugging the intensity? Do you have too bright,
or too dim brightness, does intensity control make any difference?

HV supply voltage of 2000V is low. What is the impedance of your 1000x
probe? Looking at the schematic ¡°CATH REG¡± can only adjust ~ +/-100V so
this is outside adjustment range. Should be the first thing to fix since
everything else with intensity depends on it.

Feedback loop around U1624 uses +50V at the top of R1642B as the
reference. Is +50V correct?
If you look at pins 2 and 3 of U1624 what voltage do you measure (should
be essentially the same and close to 0V).

Once you fix the HV supply if intensity is still problematic:
There are multiple posts about DC restorer issues I recommend you search
"DC restorer" "Grid Bias" for useful information.

The ones I know well are: Topic #180156: Although different equipment,
this topic has some DC restorer debug. Topic #180235 is a 485 with
intensity control issues. In particular looking at the circuitry around
intensity control pots. If you review both chains from start there is some
relevant information.

For time base issues, in the problematic 3 fastest settings how does the
"A Sweep" and "A gate" signals look? They are easily available at the back
of the scope with a BNC connection.
Ozan






Re: Corrosion Damage ¨C TM500 Plugins

 

It could just be galvanic corrosion. The graphite in the conductive foam is at the very top of the galvanic series () and can corrode even noble metals like gold and platinum in the presence of sufficient moisture to enable the reaction.

I have seen very severe corrosion on the pins of ICs placed in this conductive foam when stored in a humid conditions but in an otherwise open enclosure. The corrosion only occurred on the area of the pins in direct contact with the conductive foam. Areas not in direct contact with the foam were completely unaffected so it seems unlikely that there was any gaseous agent causing the corrosion.


Re: Corrosion Damage ¨C TM500 Plugins

 

I guess I am getting a little confused at this time but better understand the situation. Somewhere in there the Tektronix subject changed to HP and storage turned into accessory cases.

Earlier model HP accessory cases were notorious for breakdown of the foam liners. I have witnessed anything from the foam crumbling to dust (as you mentioned) all the way to it turning into a sticky goo that captured the contents and took considerable cleaning to remove with some corrosive effects along the way. The dust aspect seemed to be simply from age and the goo from high humidity conditions.

Older Tek portable scopes that had the front accessory covers (453, etc.) were known for either disintegrating dusty foam and/or the fastening material drying out releasing the foam from the cover.

The darker open cell foam you indicated in the one web link appears to be a later version product. I have seen it in newer cases and always recognize it from its more darker color and coarser cell size.

I order closed cell foam to build up transit cases and have never had any problems using it. But I also order the foam from those sources who also build up custom cases so always feel relatively assured that their products are safe. The downside to it is that they tend to extract high prices for the foam.

I¡¯m not certain if you brought the subject into your discussion regarding the TM500 plug-in accessory modules or not but they contain a hard plastic liner and fortunately no foam products (at least to my knowledge given the several I have here in the lab).

Either way I am sorry for your discovery. It¡¯s always disheartening to pull out an older piece of hardware and find irreparable damage. I think foam manufacturers are now a little more sensitive to the ingredients in their products and the subsequent damage that can be caused. And if there is any uncertainty about foam in older equipment that still is in relatively good condition it is better to err on the cautious side and replace it if possible. Calls to the foam manufacturers to verify their products is a wise step in assuring that there will be minimal surprises in the future.

Greg


Re: Tek 2225 that wont power up after a knock :-(

 

Hi Ozan, David

Sorry for my mix-up, small screen, big fingers, poor lighting.

Anyway David, Hakan's document is great.

I also repaired several 22XX scopes, in the threads I started about a 2215, 2215A and a 2235A, you can find the link to the document as well.

Leo


Re: Corrosion Damage ¨C TM500 Plugins

 

There were some "miracle material" foams and tough flexible plastics used in the 1960s and 70s. Many of them decompose to very vile residues that are often corrosive. One that had? devastating consequences to an industry and cost tens of millions to? remedy was the adaptation of polyurethane sheet that was not made correctly. In many cases, someone eager to embrace a new material would take shortcuts or not do adequate research regarding critical details in the formulation. If this stuff decomposes in a closed environment?? and was blown with hydrochloroflorocarbons, that would add some very corrosive? elements that might become part of the brew. I have cleaned up many items damaged by these residues.

??? Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY

On 3/16/21 14:04, - wrote:

A couple of questions and comments.

I see you have indicated that there is a foam product present in the
container. Can you better describe the appearance of it to help define
what it is? Yes, there are foam products releasing agents that can cause
deleterious effects on metals and such.


Greg