Re: Which programmer to use to read/write dallas DS1486?
Hi Joe,
Thank you for your kind offer, but I am located in Brasil.
I think it would be too complicated to ship the Nvrams to you to have them read and programmed.
Regards,
Roger
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Re: Is my Tek 468 beyond repair?
The expected ripple is nearer to zero.
Tek is telling you that as the capacitors wear, the scope
should still be able to meet its specifications with as
much as 80mv of ripple.
In my experience, the ripple maximums are generally met by
an order of magnitude. In other words, if they tell you the
max is 80mv, I expect to see more like 8mv in most scopes.
-Chuck Harris
John wrote:
...
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Just my opinion but 100mv of ripple on the digital circuits seems excessive. When I checked my 468 yesterday, I don't think I had more than 20mv of ripple on main PS +5V line. Agree and must admit to being suprised that 80mVpp was the expected signal. Since I had everything unplugged except the transformer connection from the fuseboard, these indications were without load attached other than the logic chips onboard the A19 board.
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Re: Looking for TM503B manual
Ah ha, I guess I'm going blind, I was looking inside for jumpers and completely missed the selector on the rear power switch. :D
Re. Option 2, my unit has the sticker, but no signs at all of any option ever being installed besides one BNC blanking plug missing, but that doesn't necessarily mean much...
Maybe I'll go get a few plugs and jacks and install the option myself one day when I get bored.
Thanks!
Jared.
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On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 07:26 PM, JoeKoch wrote:
Hi,
Voltage selector is on the back site above the power switch. Pull it out and
rotate it to the correct voltage.
Option 2 is the rear interface, 3 BNC Connectors, 50 pin Sub D connector on
the back site and internal pins.
Joe
-----Urspr¨¹ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Jared
Cabot via groups.io
Gesendet: Sonntag, 20. September 2020 11:50
An: [email protected]
Betreff: [TekScopes] Looking for TM503B manual
I'm poking away at my TM503B and wondering if anyone has a manual for this
mainframe?
I've found the TM503 manual, but no B version yet.
Failing that, does anyone know how to set the line voltage, and what Option 2
is?
Thanks!
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Re: Is my Tek 468 beyond repair?
If the 74S112s are soldered and you don't have evidence that they might be faulty (what I was suggesting was on the assumption they were socketed as most of the other ICs seem to have been) then I would say don't remove them yet. Similarly until you get an ALE signal on the 8085 you don't have any evidence for ROM rot so the priority is the oscillator and an 8085. I have a 50MHz can oscillator but it is in an 8 pin DIL package and probably not compatible, if you want it you are welcome to it (is it just a simple packaged crystal oscillator or one of the larger temperature stabilised packages, my manual gives no indication of the size and shape).
Roger
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Re: Is my Tek 468 beyond repair?
He was trying to tell you that until you have a working CPU, all of your other tests are wasted. Fair point. Does anyone have the bin files for the service ROMs, or knows where there is a link to them? I have the bins for the normal ROMs but am looking for the service ROMs to try out on my 468. I would be interested in the same and a "test ROM" was mentioned in a discussion by Reed Dickson posed by Daveolla posted in message 171596. /g/TekScopes/message/171596I was going to go back with a request but only once I got the computer working to a suitable point. Just my opinion but 100mv of ripple on the digital circuits seems excessive. When I checked my 468 yesterday, I don't think I had more than 20mv of ripple on main PS +5V line. Agree and must admit to being suprised that 80mVpp was the expected signal. Since I had everything unplugged except the transformer connection from the fuseboard, these indications were without load attached other than the logic chips onboard the A19 board. Have you tried pulling out pin 1 and connecting it to a 5Mhz clock from a function generator? I monitored the clock on pin 1 while taking the LA trace to make sure that a clock signal was present during the capture. Nevertheless, tried an experiment this morning with the CPU board reconnected and a lead clipped to the output of the crystal at pin 1 of U128, and one to pin the output at pin 10 of U120 (couldn't get the clip on pin 5 of U128) to allow me to connect a scope. There was no signal at all from the crystal. I set the sig gen for a 10MHz sine, 5V amplitude, 2.0V offset so that the floor was at -0.5V corresponding to the illustrated trace for point 151 and injected into the first lead at the crystal output. This gave me almost exactly 5MHz square signal at the output with an amplitude of approximately 4V. I checked pin 1 on the 8085 for the clock signal a 1MHz signal was present there. Still no ALE though. I pushed the signal to 20MHz (the max of this particular sig gen), got a 10MHz output and 2MHz CPU clock, but still no ALE on the CPU. I am guessing that the 50MHz oscillator is the type in a DIL metal package with just four external pins. The output is driving four Schottky high speed TTL gates which is quite a load (each gate about four times as much load as the usual 74LS devices), but no doubt within the spec of the oscillator package when new. It is possible that one or other 74S112 is moving out of spec and presenting an even larger load which is causing the oscillator to heatup and fail. Its quite possible as you suggest that one of the 74LS112's is dragging the crystal down. It also seems likely that the CPU is faulty. The logic ICs are not in sockets so I'm not particularly looking forward to trying to remove them from a board with plated through holes. If I go ahead and manage it, then I will probably install sockets. I assume you will be pulling the crystal and trying it out on the bench before replacing the crystal. The output should be able to drive a 470 ohm load if the crystal is ok. Yes, I think that will be the next task on the list. Remove the board and extract the crystal and possibly the 74LS112s. Might as well rig up a test for the crystal while I'm at it. Not sure how to set it up though. Will need to research. Is there any possibility of testing the 8085 on a breadboard with minimal hardware? I can hook up a sign gen and power rails. Not sure about memory though. Looks like the shopping list now consists of an 8085, a crystal, two 74LS112's and IC sockets + parts required for the EEPROM adapters.
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Re: Looking for TM503B manual
Hi, Voltage selector is on the back site above the power switch. Pull it out and rotate it to the correct voltage. Option 2 is the rear interface, 3 BNC Connectors, 50 pin Sub D connector on the back site and internal pins. Joe -----Urspr¨¹ngliche Nachricht----- Von: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] Im Auftrag von Jared Cabot via groups.io Gesendet: Sonntag, 20. September 2020 11:50 An: [email protected]Betreff: [TekScopes] Looking for TM503B manual I'm poking away at my TM503B and wondering if anyone has a manual for this mainframe? I've found the TM503 manual, but no B version yet. Failing that, does anyone know how to set the line voltage, and what Option 2 is? Thanks!
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Re: Which programmer to use to read/write dallas DS1486?
Hi,
what if you just try it out? There is no risk of loosing data or damaging anything, I would say.
I did it some years ago in a Sony G90 beamer, as a precautionary measure. I used a not very special USB-powered programmer (Batronix) I purchased on an online auction. Worked flawlessly first time.
cheers
Martin
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Looking for TM503B manual
I'm poking away at my TM503B and wondering if anyone has a manual for this mainframe?
I've found the TM503 manual, but no B version yet.
Failing that, does anyone know how to set the line voltage, and what Option 2 is?
Thanks!
|
Re: Is my Tek 468 beyond repair?
John,
I am guessing that the 50MHz oscillator is the type in a DIL metal package with just four external pins. The output is driving four Schottky high speed TTL gates which is quite a load (each gate about four times as much load as the usual 74LS devices), but no doubt within the spec of the oscillator package when new. It is possible that one or other 74S112 is moving out of spec and presenting an even larger load which is causing the oscillator to heatup and fail. You can get equivalent switching speeds with modern 74HCT devices and being CMOS they have very small loading on the input side. You may be able to extend the life of the oscillator can by replacing the two 74S112s with two 74HCT112s, if the ICs are socketed that would be a lot less hassle. You can get the 74HCT112s on eBay in the UK and probably many other suppliers as well.
Try pulling the two 74S112s and see if the oscillator is then stable.
Roger
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Re: Is my Tek 468 beyond repair?
John,
Just reading the thread again and noticed you have a socketed 8085.
Have you tried pulling out pin 1 and connecting it to a 5Mhz clock from a function generator? The processor should take off running. If not, check the interrupt pins and pull out any that might be stuck. At this point the processor should just run unless it hits some halt command in ROM. You might pull the ROMs as well and see if the address/data line are running and ALE is latching addresses in U550.
Regards
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Re: Is my Tek 468 beyond repair?
John,
Just my opinion but 100mv of ripple on the digital circuits seems excessive. When I checked my 468 yesterday, I don't think I had more than 20mv of ripple on main PS +5V line.
The crystal could be bad but I cannot say I have seen one of this type fail.
The crystal appears to have four loads on the output so one of the two LS112s could be pulling it down. Did you check to see if one of the LS112s is getting hot as well? One quick thought would be to pull up the output (pin 8) with a 10K resistor (to +5) and seeing if it still fades out. I assume you are monitoring the +5 pin at or near the crystal as you are monitoring the output pin. Is it staying at +5 while the output is fading out?
One other long shot before going through the trouble of removing the crystal: If the crystal output just faded out, you might be able to quickly apply a TTL squarewave, of any frequency, on the clock input of one of the flip flops and see if pin 9 of either of the LS112s starts clocking again. Monitor the clock line as well. Frequency does not matter, just the ability to override the output of the crystal with a squarewave. If you get a squarewave on pin 9, check the processor clock and see if it is toggling. If you cannot force a clock on the clock line, something is pulling it down, perhaps one of the LS112s.
I assume you will be pulling the crystal and trying it out on the bench before replacing the crystal. The output should be able to drive a 470 ohm load if the crystal is ok.
Some other things to consider as you continue to troubleshoot this scope for other problems. If you don't know the history of this scope, keep in mind it may have been dropped or under some vibration during transport. There might be some mechanical damage such as a cracked trace or compromised solder joint. Another thing to look out for is if the main power supply has a bad C829, you will see ripple throughout all the power supply lines. Mine failed and I had 16V or ripple on the 110V line and .8V ripple on the +5 line. My point is that an aging device of unknown origin might have problems that are not so obvious. Problems could be mechanical based or from a place you might not suspect. Bert's rocking the chips (also connectors) is one of my first things to do after checking the power supply voltage and ripple. Chuck/Bert are also right; no clock = no run.
Let me know if you need any other signals probed on my 468.
I would not give up on this scope as there might just be a couple of components between now and a good running scope.
Regards
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Re: Tek 7854 intermittent issues
Did a test to see if the issue is temperature dependent, after letting it reach room temperature I briefly tested to make sure that the issue was occuring. Then I left it for maybe 10 more minutes and warmed up the digital side with a heat gun. After I warmed it up it powered on and acted as it should.
So it looks like my theory was correct, it is in fact temperature dependent.
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Re: Is my Tek 468 beyond repair?
Does anyone have the bin files for the service ROMs, or knows where there is a link to them? I have the bins for the normal ROMs but am looking for the service ROMs to try out on my 468.
Regards
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Re: Is my Tek 468 beyond repair?
He was trying to tell you that until you have a working CPU,
all of your other tests are wasted.
The clock has to work, and the processor has to be latching
addresses.
If it doesn't, it doesn't matter what your RAM and EPROM are
doing, or how good they are.
I would be more inclined to suspect the oscillator than the
crystal.
-Chuck Harris
John wrote:
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I was not getting anything at all on ALE. I removed and re-seated the 8085. Unlike the TTL logic chips, the pins on the processor were shiny and clean. However, since I have disconnected the A19 board (timing and power supply) I will not know the effect of this re-seating until I reconnect everything together again.
In the meantime, the oscillator crystall is a weird problem. I checked the power supplies on the A19 board and found there were all good. I was a little concerned about the 5V line because it had somewhat short of 100mVpp ripple on the CRT display, but the service manual shows a nominal 80mmVpp, so this is probably OK as well. I checked the output from the oscillator crystal (pin 8) and found that it started at about 3V and sank to about 1V after a few seconds. The result was that the output from the 74LS112 was OK at first, but destabilized after a few seconds, faded (the trace got blurred) and then flat-lined as the signal dropped below the TTL threshold. This is exactly what I was seeing at U272 and pin 1 of the 8085 on the microprocessor board. I therefore surmise that the 74LS112 is probably OK, and the problem is the crystal itself.
I am curious as to why you suggest that I should not bother going any further? Do you mean with the logic analyser or repair of the oscilloscope in general? If the latter, then no worries. The scope only cost me a trip to pick it up and although it was a bit daunting at first, delving into the computer side of things has been interesting and I have learned something. Cost wise, so far I am looking at a replacement crystal and possibly a 8085 processor which I think I can pick up for around ?12. On the other hand the RAM board, storage board, display board are untested at present and I know that repair of the analogue side will incur some additional cost so I appreciate that at some point one has to ask whether it is worthwhile. I am not sure I have reached that point yet, but am happy to entertain other viewpoints?
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Re: TDS 3000B-family 'scope (TDS 3014B) has problem with LAN interface
I'm pretty sure I've found the answer to my problem, though maybe not a solution.
In my earlier message, I forgot to mention that I replaced the battery in the Clock/NVRAM module, since the time indication was intermittent, as was the functioning of the LAN connection. I was hoping to not only restore the functionality of the clock but also to restore the LAN's functionality, although the RAM would have continued to work even without battery backup. What I hadn't realized was that the NVRAM module could have stored the LAN adapter's MAC address, which of course was lost after disconnecting the old battery and reconnecting a new one. It turns out that the NVRAM does indeed store the LAN adapter's MAC address.
I found that information here:
Unfortunately, I don't think a copy of the MAC address is still stored in my router so, unless any valid MAC address will do, I guess I'm stuck because I don't think there's a label containing the MAC address anywhere on or in the 'scope. I guess the MAC address on an old adapter, no longer in use, would be valid but whether it'll be accepted and how to enter it remains to be seen.
Local time where I live is 2:55 (AM) so it's time to quit for the night.
Raymond
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Re: Which programmer to use to read/write dallas DS1486?
On 19-Sep-20 15:15, Siggi wrote: (snippage) All that being said, I'd love to know what people here are using to read
and write NVRAMs ;). It's not often I have to, for the very reasons you point out, but pretty much any of the Data I/O 'Unifamily' programmers (Unisite, 2900, 3900, 3980) will easily handle those chips. I usually end up using my Unisite. Most of the programmers from Advin should work as well. For the best flexibility with any device programmer, look for one which uses a design called 'pin driver.' Keep the peace(es). -- --- Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
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Re: Which programmer to use to read/write dallas DS1486?
Where are you located? I can read, archive, and program these chips if you would like.
These chips are supported by BP Micro Programmers including the BP 1410 and BP 1600 and later programmers. They are likely supported by other programmers I have but I do not have access to my 'usual' resources to be able to verify this.
Sometimes, you can find these older programmers at very reasonable prices but you would need a WinXP computer with a parallel port to be able to use them. The later programmers, with a '10', such as the 1610, connect with USB and would have software that would support a later version of Win.
I'm happy to help if I can. I'm in NW FL USA.
Joe
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Rogerio O Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2020 5:02 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [TekScopes] Which programmer to use to read/write dallas DS1486? Dear all, I will have to replace the dallas chips (DS1486/DS1650) of my TDS684A. I have ordered the replacement kits (not fake China chip) from a source I have found in EEVBlog. While I wait, I have dowloaded the contents of the chips to a floppy using a tool that does that. My question is about the next step. I intent to read the chips (just in case) and I will have to write one image to them. I currently have a TL866A and a GQ-4X, but I have seen posts that say that neither programmers will work. I can¡¯t afford spending $500 or more in another programmer. Is there any consensus out there if any of these can be used? Any special recommendation about programming. Which chips should be used as ¡°target device¡± for the DS1486 and the DS1650? Thank you
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Re: TDS 3000B-family 'scope (TDS 3014B) has problem with LAN interface
I didn't experience the issue myself; I have always used static IP. I haven't used it hours on end, but I've had no issues for relatively short uses of the scope. Remember to pick a static IP in the range allocated by your router to avoid the DHCP server from assigning the same IP address to another client. Dave Casey On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 5:49 PM Raymond Domp Frank <hewpatek@...> wrote: On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 12:36 AM, Dave Casey wrote:
I seem to recall there being a known issue with these and DHCP.
Have you tried setting a static IP appropriate to your network, leaving
DHCP turned off?
Hi Dave,
Thanks for your response. I have tried not using DHCP and using the static
address that the 'scope acquired when the LAN interface was still working.
I could find it in the router's configuration.
Since the lock-up really looks like the 'scope's program crashing and the
instrument becoming blocked, I was thinking about a hardware/firmware
problem and processing my disappointment.
In my worries about it being such a problem, I haven't yet configured a
different (static) IP address from the time when it still worked and try
(ping) that. I'll be in the lab on Monday and will try.
Do you by any chance remember whether the problem you're referring to
blocked the instrument altogether?
Raymond
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Re: Which programmer to use to read/write dallas DS1486?
I think I have the GQ-4X and I looked into it programming another dallas part for the TDS320.? What i remember is not all DALLAS parts are directly supported.? Your not going to need a programming voltage and you have to restrict the addresses copied because they won't verify.
Compare the dallas 1486 to the 27128 or 27C128 chips.? See:
the 27128 and 27C128 is supported by the GQ-4X(V4),GQ-4x4
The DS1225Y (64K and DS1235Y (256K) are supported.? They are likely closer, because they don't require Vpp.Battery backed up RAM.
So, look at the datasheets and the programming entries and figure out how to not program the clock area.
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On Saturday, September 19, 2020, 6:15:39 PM EDT, Siggi <siggi@...> wrote: Hey Roger, I don't know the answer to your question regarding reading and writing the NVRAM. But I wonder why you feel you need to save and restore the NVRAM data. The calibration information for the scope is not stored in NVRAM, it's in EEPROM on the acquisition board, so you don't need to worry about the calibration information. AFAIK the only information of value in the NVRAM is the options bits, and it's well known how to write to them to enable whatever options you have and/or want to enable. Also, if you install the new NVRAM in a socket, you should be able to safely defer the decision on buying a programmer. In the worst case scenario, you'll still have the old NVRAM, and to program the new one, you'd only need to pop it out of its socket. All that being said, I'd love to know what people here are using to read and write NVRAMs ;). Siggi On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 6:01 PM Rogerio O <rodd414@...> wrote: Dear all,
I will have to replace the dallas chips (DS1486/DS1650) of my TDS684A.
I have ordered the replacement kits (not fake China chip) from a source I
have found in EEVBlog.
While I wait, I have dowloaded the contents of the chips to a floppy using
a tool that does that.
My question is about the next step.
I intent to read the chips (just in case) and I will have to write one
image to them.
I currently have a TL866A and a GQ-4X, but I have seen posts that say that
neither programmers will work.
I can¡¯t afford spending $500 or more in another programmer.
Is there any consensus out there if any of these can be used?
Any special recommendation about programming. Which chips should be used
as ¡°target device¡± for the DS1486 and the DS1650?
Thank you
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Re: TDS 3000B-family 'scope (TDS 3014B) has problem with LAN interface
On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 12:36 AM, Dave Casey wrote:
I seem to recall there being a known issue with these and DHCP.
Have you tried setting a static IP appropriate to your network, leaving
DHCP turned off?
Hi Dave, Thanks for your response. I have tried not using DHCP and using the static address that the 'scope acquired when the LAN interface was still working. I could find it in the router's configuration. Since the lock-up really looks like the 'scope's program crashing and the instrument becoming blocked, I was thinking about a hardware/firmware problem and processing my disappointment. In my worries about it being such a problem, I haven't yet configured a different (static) IP address from the time when it still worked and try (ping) that. I'll be in the lab on Monday and will try. Do you by any chance remember whether the problem you're referring to blocked the instrument altogether? Raymond
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Jared Cabot
Martin
Raymond Domp Frank
Bruce Lane