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Re: Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing?
My experience with Tektronix began far before I had a Tek scope. I was
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about 11 years old and saw advertisements in Scientific American for Tektronix oscilloscopes. I wanted a catalog to learn more about them. I wrote a letter to Tektronix (I believe it was to the HQ in Beaverton) asking for a catalog. Whoever received it must have figured out I was a kid - no company name or address and clearly a home address. I think my English was reasonable. A few weeks later, a catalog showed up in the mail. I never forgot how well they treated me. They could have disregarded that letter, but they were nice enough to fulfill my request. As a result, when I had the chance to recommend a replacement scope for a lab I was working in (I was the only one with any electronics experience at all and it was mostly self-taught) I asked them what they wanted to use it for. I don't recall the model I suggested but I remember they wanted a high-gain differential amplifier. I believe it must have been a 560-series with a 2A61 vertical amplifier. This was long before the 7000-series and the 7A22. They were looking at low voltage, low-frequency bioelectric signals. They had preamplifiers if they needed them and Faraday chambers for single neuron work. So, Tektronix got a purchase order based on my memory of how well they treated me. It was a few years later that I acquired the 500-series scopes (DoD surplus) that we used in the lab. I will say that Hewlett-Packard also sent me a catalog, but by this time, I was a college student. I was most interested in their frequency counters and time/frequency stuff. I eventually acquired (surplus again) the famous 5245L and later a 5248M. Both still work. Also a 107BR quartz standard which also still works. More recently, a 105A quartz standard. I ran this thing against WWVB with a Fluke VLF receiver and the 105A achieves 1 part in 1E11. The frequency and time stuff is for fun. The Tek connection? Checking the sweep frequency against the standard output. The Tektronix parts folks were also very kind. I even had an account with them, and though they offered to let me buy parts on credit (at least up to a certain amount - I could not buy a replacement CRT on credit). It was great for manuals that were still in print, knobs, etc. I was lucky and the scopes I used and maintained did not need any custom parts. I did replace a couple of tubes in the 500s, though. I did pay the invoices quickly when i got them. I had directed others to Tektronix when they were looking for video test equipment. When we needed high-resolution, high performance (spot size uniformity across the CRT face, very low distortion) we bought Tektronix monitors for the lab (medical imaging). Tektronix being nice to a very young electronics enthusiast paid off for them. Steve H On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 10:06 AM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:
Hi Roy, |
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Re: 475 questions
Bruce,
The square pad is TEKs way of designating the positive side of any polarized device. So Yes, square pad is + side of the Capacitor. This also applies to diodes as well. Sometimes Tek will use the square pad to designate the number one pin of an IC, however, this is not universally true. The number one pin can also be designated by a small round dot on the PC board, adjacent to the pad. The number one pad is sometimes not identified in any manner. My experience is working many of these 4xx Series as well as other contemporary Tektronix instruments. This holds true on almost all the instruments that I have personally repaired. I do not always depend on the color codes on these caps, I tend to rely on the values stated in the schematics and in the parts list. One thing that I try to do is take a picture of the area of the board where I am working, BEFORE I make any changes and I try to document exactly these sort of markings for later reference. -- Michael Lynch Dardanelle, AR |
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Re: 475 questions
Bruce, the + sign is unambiguous, that lead is definitely the postive lead.? The 'bent knee' lead may be the + lead but I am not aware of that as a convention so trust the markings.? Likewise the square solder pad may be a Tek convention (can other readers comment?) but I am not aware of it so I wouldn't rely on it.? Not having access to a 475 I can't get a good look at the A7 board and the image of the PCB layout, Fig 7-16 in the manual is very grainy and I can't see the shape of these pads.? The best way to confirm which way around these tantalums should be is by looking at the pics you took of the board before you removed them!? Yes I forget to do that too, but it's very helpful in these circumstances.? I did refer to the pic of C1091 you posted but the focus is a bit off where it's needed.? I *think* the + is on the left as that looks like the 'bent knee' lead but I'm not certain.
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The next best way is to identify nearby components and find which connects to which, and the schematic shows those two ferrite bead inductors L1091 and L1093 and they tell the story.? Note that supply rail to L1091 and C1091 is negative and the other L and C are on a postive supply rail so the capacitor polarity will reflect that. As for the colourful tantalum on the A9 board, I worked out the colour code as you did and I can't explain the difference with the parts list.? That could be a wild goose chase all of its own so unless you have reason so suspect its motives, I think the sleeping dog principle applies. Graham On 28/05/2020 9:43 am, ciclista41 via groups.io wrote:
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Re: Tek 4041 GPIB Controller
I found two resistors next to the keyboard header on the CPU board. One was about 130 ohms to Ground, the other was about 120 ohms to +5V.
The other end of both resistors next to the keyboard header was connected on the PCB to the TX pin from the keyboard. I unsoldered the end of the 130 ohm and 120 ohm resistors on the opposite side from the keyboard header. I inserted a 1K ohm resistor into the hole where the 120 ohm resistor was connected to +5V and connected the other end of that resistor to the end of the 120 ohm resistor. I didn't have to remove the CPU board for this operation. This allowed my Parallax USB to TTL serial to work. This converter has female pins and I used Arduino breadboard jumpers to connect the serial interface to the LEMO pins. From the front panel, the top left LEMO female socket is Ground - and was connected to the Parallax Vss pin. The bottom left male pin on the LEMO is the TX pin from the keyboard and I connected it to the Parallax TX pin. I could now type on the PC Realterm application (4800 8N2) and see the output on the red LEDs on the front panel. I then typed two commands - from maddisassembler in 2016 "RE: 4041 basic program for redirection", but left off the line numbers and typed in immediate mode: SET DRIVER "COMM0(BAU=9600,FLA=BID):" SET CONSOLE "COMM0:" I got an error message on the second command. The operators manual shows "SET CONSOLE "COMM:", so I typed that and that text stayed on the LED display - but my serial console was then enabled. I guess COMM0 is needed if you have the second COMM port option. The 4041 I was using has only one COMM port. I uploaded a photo of my simple mod. I left the two original resistors if I wanted to restore to original later. /g/TekScopes/photo/247590/0?p=Created,,,20,2,0,0 Monty |
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Re: Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing?
Beginners can become skilled users and restorers of any type of equipment if properly mentored. But if they are left to languish for themselves it can be a very steep hill to climb.
Before they start digging into complex equipment they should learn a few basics such as troubleshooting techniques as well as the more salient aspects such as proper soldering methods, and how to treat sensitive and mechanically delicate equipment. And, again, if they do not learn the proper approaches to doing so they can carry that behavior for years to come.’ I have a broadcast client who decided that they should have an in-house person to maintain and manage their technical plant. In response the General Manager assigned the responsibility to an on-air disk jockey who had no technical experience at all. On top of it they were also given the title “Director of Engineering” with the expectation that the will be the “go-to” person in times of equipment and systems failures. This included the high-power transmitters with their 10 kV high voltage power supplies. The person tried to make it clear that he needed some technical training to support his new role so the manager enrolled him in a mail-order technical school to help him learn. But after a few years of trying to learn the basics and my helping him try to learn fundamental theories (ohm’s law, DC circuits, etc.) he has backed off of the learning and I still have to go in and maintain their equipment. But now he is the manager over outside technical people (mainly me) and my 53+ years of electronic design/manufacturing and service experience. And he is still the “Director of Engineering.” When I do work for this client, the DOE always accompanies me. And I try hard to mentor him and teach him how to deal with failures and where to look when certain symptoms appear. That is the least I can do given the high liability of his employer to foolishly assign a possibly dangerous task to someone who has little understanding of what he may get into. I answer his questions, have brought him up to speed in his soldering and basic mechanical maintenance techniques, familiarized him more with the equipment he is responsible for and continue to teach a little electronics theory when possible. He still needs to learn basic operation of test equipment but it is somewhat obvious that he does not possess the inclination to completely understand given the need to know areas such as RF and other. Such a high-level assignment to a person of this caliber draws both positive and negative comments from others. Personally I would prefer that he at least have a reasonable background in electronics before launching off on a profession like this especially from a need to understand how dangerous some of this equipment can be and how easy it could be to break more things than fix them. But that is not my responsibility given the choice made by my clients management. Some of these underpinnings can be applied to members of this and other groups. For those who are total neophytes to electronics and try to tackle more complex equipment before learning some of the basics it can definitely be an uphill battle to understand what or how to do something. And having some ability to do it right before taking action will help suppress doing possibly more damage to the item they work on. But, again, that requires mentoring from an approach that is not necessarily found in many of the replies on this site. To surmise, it has to be more of theory accompanying the reply rather than a “look here” or “fix this” if these people are going to learn how to do it. I am not saying that all of the replies are anemic in this aspect for there are those who do take the time to thoroughly explain the “why’s” and I applaud them. But all of us must think along the lines of helping educate that person who obviously has bought their first piece of non-working test equipment and is rather clueless as to how to make it work so that they can continue on to learn more about this crazy world of electronics. I might add mentoring was the way I started my electronics life at the wee age of 13. I had met the Chief Engineer of a local television station and expressed my desire to learn more about television technology. Having expected to merely hang around the station I became surprised when I found that he had better ideas on how I should learn. It resulted in his driving across town each Friday night, picking me up and taking me to the station. At midnight when the station would sign off (in those days) he would reserve the remainder of his overnight engineering shift to sit down and teach me electronics coupled with helping him work on the equipment all the while explaining how it worked. The result was my ability to get a job at the station when I turned 15 helping him properly maintain the equipment and the rest was history. After graduating from high school I left the station and went out to obtain my engineering degree launching me into the fields of design engineering for the majority of my career while always owing the start of that career to him. And I continue to carry on that desire to teach others in similar ways whenever possible. Greg |
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Re: Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing?
YIKES!
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Hi John, I would like to make amends for anything I said to Chuck. I have known him as a contributor to TekScopes for the past 17 years. I consider myself fortunate that he has shared his experience and observations as a member of other groups with me. We communicate with each other regularly off list. He was planning to stop for a visit until the virus put everything on hold. Only Chuck can say if your characterization is correct. Chuck is not shy so if he has something to say I know he will :) If possible put yourself in my shoes for a minute. Two weeks ago on TekScopes several important issues were conflated and I was suddenly feeling a lot of stress while I tried to sort out how best to proceed. The ESR Meter thread resurfaced once again and I requested that the participants consider the impact on our other members if they continued. I find it ironic that you just clearly expressed your preference that the recent 475 thread be allowed to continue ad infinitum by taking issue with Roy Thistle. You singled out the one individual who, like you with the 475 thread, was a participant in the lengthy ESR thread until Roy took charge of the issue by creating a new ESR Forum on 开云体育. That relieved some of the pressure I was feeling from members. Once again, Thank You Roy! Some members saw ESR Meters as a legitimate Tek related topic since they are a troubleshooting tool. Other members thought this topic was not specific enough to TekScopes and requested I stop it. My responsibility is to choose between them. Fortunately I didn't have to because Roy Thistle took charge and created an ESR Forum on 开云体育. Chuck and I have both been around long enough to remember teletypes. So it was not really an issue when I saw the "character sketch" he included in an email describing own to make an engineer's ESR Meter. I watched as one member after another asked what that pile of hieroglyphics was supposed to be. A few people understood it and provided an explanation. The explanations resulted in still more questions/confusion which required even longer explanations. Chuck and I both find it strange that something so simple could cause so much confusion. I realized everyone needed instructions on how to decipher it. So I provided the instructions to understand what Chuck had drawn. The issue of allowing attachments generated a lot of polarized responses pro and con. Some of the responses were verging on rude which surprised me. I have no experience with attachments and out of personal ignorance I thought about all the things that could go wrong. I needed to learn more about attachments ASAP and I started to do just that. I think Chuck must have sensed I was confused and having a hard time with this because he contacted me and made many good suggestions about where I should go and who I could discuss my concerns with to learn more. Attachments have benefits and they have drawbacks. I have seen some of the benefits. I am still waiting for answers about how to eliminate or minimize the drawbacks. I spent many hours today writing this reply to you (this is the third time I wrote it, starting over from the beginning each time) because a brand new issue appeared yesterday which has all the makings of a controversy that is going to be a whopper. A few days ago I couldn't help but notice the "475 Questions" thread was getting very long. It is currently at 148 posts. I took a look at a few of the posts and I was stunned to see a member ask what "exp" meant. I couldn't spend much time thinking about it because yesterday a member got right to the core of that issue when he posted this new topic "Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing?" Apparently his question is not easy to answer to everyone's satisfaction. One more thing before I'll permit you to step out of my shoes: All of these issues have generated a lot of comments that are taking a huge amount of my time to respond to. That is less time I have to get the answers to the whether to enable attachments I have asked of other group moderator/owners. That was the hot issue 2 weeks ago. That is how far behind I am. I will probably choose to ignore this new topic until I reach a conclusion on the previous hot topic. Out of necessity I may stop responding entirely until I catch up. If you, John, would like to take my place in the interim please feel free. A few things to remember if you do: TEKSCOPES GOAL (from Michael Dunn in 2000): "TekScopes is about classic Tektronix test equipment, its use, repair, and collecting". THE GOLDEN RULE FOR GROUPS (from Stefan Trethan in 2018): “No politics, no religion, no sports, simple as that.” THE MODERATORS JOB IS TO STOP THIS PATTERN BEFORE IT REACHES #5 1. A slightly OT post is made. 2. It generates an unusually large number of responses. 3. This generates even more comments that go off at tangents. 4. Someone asks that the participants bring it under control. 5. That request creates more posts in support of the original slightly O.T. post. 6. Someone replies with "if you don't like it use your delete key" 7. That results in comments pro and con about whether the original post was O.T. 8. The posts die down over the next week. 9. If they don't die down the moderator will ask that the topic be put to bed. TEKSCOPES IS NOT A SALES SITE: EBay, Craigslist, etc. are the proper place to list items you have for sale. However if you are offering our members scarce parts, sub-assemblies, instruments, etc. at prices that our members can afford then it makes perfect sense to offer them on TekScopes. Dennis Tillman W7pF -----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Crighton Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 10:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing? Hello Roy, I am really surprised at you of all people sounding like a wet blanket. The owner of this tekscope group told you in no uncertain terms if you want to talk about ESR Meters to go and form your own group. Which to your credit you did just that. I also did not like the way that the owner of this group, Dennis Tillman, jumped on Mr Chuck Harris for describing how to use an oscilloscope with a function generator to check capacitors for value and ESR. Shutting someone up for describing how to use an oscilloscope on an oscilloscope group is to me just plain crazy. Those are rules that you have to obey, like them or not. Roy, if you are not enjoying reading about the repair of the 475 scope by a beginner then do not read the thread. It is that simple! I think it is marvellous that so many people on this group are willing to help an individul fix his 475 scope. What a great thing to do, while we are in corona virus lock down. My fellow countryman Graham VK1GVC, down in Canberra is doing a great job helping Bruce and so so are all the othere people. The side benefit for me and no doubt others on this group is that Bruce is asking basic questions as a beginner that other people on this group might not dare to ask for fear of looking foolish. Keep asking questions Bruce. I want you to fix this scope. Regards, John Crighton Sydney ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Thistle" <roy.thistle@...> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 1:51 PM Subject: [TekScopes] Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing? Hi all TekScopers: Reading through a long thread, recently posted, caused me to wonder.. just what are TekScopers accomplishing with threads like this... and why are we encouraging someone who is "... new to electronics..." to dig into a 475?... one of the most complex, and compact, analog instruments ever designed. I suppose.. in consideration... Michael discouraged the use of a Mr. Carlson super Weller-kluge special, on the 475's pcb(s)... but, ya know... somewhere the thread... the 475 owner hints he paid 20.00 for 475?, and he's also got a nonworking? PM3218 too. So why didn't someone just recommend/... right off the bat... to take the 475 to someone who knows what they are doing... drop another 100.00 on it... and then he'd have one of the best scopes ever made. Or alternatively... and better... just start in on the PM3218...itself a very fine instrument, with a double insulated power supply... and way overkill, for a beginner. Look, I'm not unsympathetic... it's just that...too often.. after parting with some scarce cash... or finding some Tek picked apart in a basement somewhere, where its been languishing for a generation...I've witnessed the havoc wreaked by someone trying to "fix" them. If you want to call me a dumb ass... for thinking this way... well fine... just PM me to do it. I can't promise I'll reply to that... but, I'll read your message. Best regards and wishes. Roy --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. -- Dennis Tillman W7pF TekScopes Moderator |
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Re: Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing?
On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 04:22 PM, Steph L wrote:
Hi All: I'm reading your posts... and I got a couple of good PMs.too. For those lost in this long thread, if any are any... the sentence... "Encouraging beginners, what are we accomplishing." is not logically equivalent to: (1)We shouldn't encourage beginners. (2)We shouldn't help beginners. (3)Beginners can't, or never have, fixed complex analog instruments. I think that (1) or (2) or (3) holds. PM for more discussions. Best regards and wishes. All the best. Roy |
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Re: Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing?
Roy,
Usual disclaimers apply :-) I completely understand your point of view, and I have to admit I struggle a bit as I can tell you did when you posted this message. I am not what you would call classically trained in the art of electrons moving around myself, but I had enough interest to dig in and start learning. My feeling on the topic is this - maybe someone breaks a 475 in the process of learning what needs to be done and what -not- to do, and that is a shame and a blessing at the same time. Trust me - I have more than one 7B53A in my closet that my fists made of ham have rendered into spare parts. But also in fairness, when I nabbed them off ebay, I knew they weren't working in the first place and wasn't sure how bad when I bought them. I also learned from the experience and was able to cobble up one that works well from my misguided attempts. I still have modules - a 1L5 and 1A6 - that are salvageable but haven't made it to the top of my list of projects. I have also restored a 7834, 503, 502, 535A, 547 (mostly), 5111, 5113, and many plugins with help from the fine folks on this forum. So I guess my rambling point is - if someone really wants to learn how to make an omelette, some eggs are going to get broken; and If someone has a passion for really learning how Tek equipment works - they should be willing to take some well informed risks. On the other hand, if someone is just wanting the item fixed, to your point, it may be better to let someone else to the heavy lifting if Tek equipment isn't their passion. I think as members of this forum, we need to understand which folks are in need of what advice and try to guide them down the correct path for their particular endeavor. That's my take anyway. I could be wrong. All the best, Jason |
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Re: 475 questions
Hi Graham,
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I try to treat people that way, too. After my brief adventure with C1091 and C1093, I'm doing the same with tantalum caps in this scope. The leads on this tantalum are not symmetrical to the body. If you look at them as legs on a body, one seems to have a knee bent out to the side rather than dropping straight to the floor. There is a + sign printed closer to that leg. I'm guessing that's the positive lead. The through holes they came out of have a square trace pad and a round trace pad. I'm guessing these are to guide polarity. I think the positive leg went to the square, while the negative went to the round, but I'm not absolutely sure of that. Confirmation? Is this a standardized thing? At /g/TekScopes/photo/247625/0?p=Created,,,20,2,0,0, you'll see an even more colorful one I found on my A9 board. Who knew these scopes were wearing jewelry when no one was looking? According to this chart: , that's a Red=2, Violet=7, Grey=.01 multiplier, Green = 16V. So that's .27μF, right? But the manual says this is a 196D275X9050JA1 or a 290-0573-00. The latter is listed in the Tektronix Common Parts Catalog as 2.7μF, 50V. What am I not getting? Bruce On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 07:40 AM, VK1GVC wrote:
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Re: Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing?
Hello Roy,
I haven't read that long thread you referred to but the answer to all your valued observations must rest with the individual, so motivated to reach out for assistance. The Tek group is unique gathering of expertise, fine documentation, complementing many other web sources of information for the Tek brand. However, a key distinguishable feature is facilitation of first hand contact. The overall benefit of the Tek Group is surely sharing of valued information, but no single member is obligated to act as a mentor. Learning from others however is a fundamental for individual development, including making mistakes and building resilience. Steph Lancaster Melbourne |
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Re: Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing?
It's a lot easier to fix a scope if you have a working scope. I bought a 60 MHz dual trace Dumont 1062 from Tucker in Dallas around 1990 for $300+. About a week after the 30 day warranty expired the horizontal section died.
Not realizing at the time I could have traced the sweep circuit using just the vertical channel it sat for some time until a traded a pair of 141 MB ESDI drives for a wonky 465. It worked just well enough that I was able to fix the Dumont after which I fixed the 465. I'd never done this level of repair before. I just kept plugging away after work each evening until I got them going. That said, I did have a wide range of experience repairing things, so I had learned the important part, the thought process. And I had repaired my Heathkit IO-18 when a shorted cap blew up a pair of rectifier tubes. Before I got that all I had was a VOM and DMM which I used to fix stereo gear I fished out of the trash and sold. I think it should be pointed out that the more you know, the less you need in the way of test gear. I did not read the 475 thread because i have no experience with a 475. Did anyone suggest using a blocking capacitor to measure the ripple on the +50 V line with a DMM? In short, was he told how to make the needed tests with the equipment he had available? Reg |
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Re: Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing?
Hi Roy,
I understand where you are coming from with your post. I also followed initially the thread started bu ciclista41@ with "475 questions", and I answered some of them. I was not the only one, other members made their contribution too. What discouraged me of continuing was the concern of all what could go wrong with an inexpert ciclista repairing the complex scope, and also the fact that many good intentioned contributors with different ideas would only create confusion. I looked at his thread just now, and it seems that ciclista41 is still struggling with the low voltage supply, the +50V, while asking himself why nothing right appears on the screen. I truly wish that he finds one component that fixes his +50V, and then all the other supplies fall automatically in line, and then maybe... maybe he gets some sign that the scope is alive. If this is not the case, it hurts me to think of his disappointment, and all his efforts that will not have been successful. So I hope for some good luck! It is much easier to advise, to help a person who is more expert, perhaps at the same level or above one's level, who is simply missing some particular experience one can provide. Not missing a complete education in electronics. It would also be easier if a person like ciclista41 starts off with a project that is less complex, (although, what is more simple than a linear power supply?) I pass no judgment of your opinion and that of other members including myself. Things are what they are. And there is no doubt that we all have plenty of good will ! Ernesto |
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Re: 475 questions
Hi Eric!
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Thanks for your suggestions. Just like your advice to ask a million questions, I appreciate as much input as I can get. I look forward to sharing in the satisfaction you obviously enjoy from having restored one of these scopes! Bruce On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 05:41 AM, Eric wrote:
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Re: Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing?
On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 3:26 PM James Theonas via groups.io <jamestheonas=
[email protected]> wrote: In any case as a noob as I consider myself (my first true oscilloscope)Looks like my first post on here was back in 2014 ( /g/TekScopes/message/103234), and it was a very similar story back then. Without the help and encouragement of this group, I would never have had the courage to tackle the repair of my beautiful old 2467. Over time I even gathered together the gear to properly calibrate the old girl, and went through the calibration process. |
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Re: Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing?
Hi Friends (and I don't say this lightly)
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I'm a noob at oscilloscopes as they have always been out of my reach to purchase. I have worked many years and mostly depended on my trusty Multimeter to get me by. I have finally got my self an Oscilloscope the 2465b and I am very happy with my purchase. I did however have to clean some contacts in the ch1 attenuator and literally had to take the thing apart! A little scary but with the help of this group I got through it! Oscilloscope is up and running and working great despite the thread I had opened going overboard about cleaning fluids and alcohol and even reaching moonshine and distilleries! Funny thing is I didn't use alcohol at all but used benzine and cotton to clean contacts! In any case as a noob as I consider myself (my first true oscilloscope) this group came through for me in flying colors or colours (depends on where your from) and I am very grateful for its existence and everyone here! Dimitris Theonas On Wednesday, May 27, 2020, 10:07:48 PM GMT+3, Roy Thistle <roy.thistle@...> wrote:
On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 08:51 AM, stevenhorii wrote: Well, you can take the Bayesian approach... a subjective interpretation of probability models, with feedback training... it's as legit as the frequency approach. But anyway... back to Tek. Some great blow-back, and thoughtful comments from everyone, particularly from Chuck... who even though... if he is referring to my values, and my thinking, has got me completely wrong... Chuck provided some great incite into what makes "collectors" tick.... and perhaps what professional repairs cost in the U.S.A. Again, I should mention, if you want to tell me what I think, just PM me... I read my email. Although, IMO, asking me is often far more elucidatiing.. I'll admit, mileage may vary. Best regards and wishes. All the best Roy |
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Re: Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing?
On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 08:51 AM, stevenhorii wrote:
Well, you can take the Bayesian approach... a subjective interpretation of probability models, with feedback training... it's as legit as the frequency approach. But anyway... back to Tek. Some great blow-back, and thoughtful comments from everyone, particularly from Chuck... who even though... if he is referring to my values, and my thinking, has got me completely wrong... Chuck provided some great incite into what makes "collectors" tick.... and perhaps what professional repairs cost in the U.S.A. Again, I should mention, if you want to tell me what I think, just PM me... I read my email. Although, IMO, asking me is often far more elucidatiing.. I'll admit, mileage may vary. Best regards and wishes. All the best Roy |
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Re: Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing?
On 5/27/20 7:08 AM, Jamie Ostrowski wrote:
Does anyone have any idea, statistically, of how many scopes die from As a single data point, I've killed [1] my 455 and resurrected a 2440.? So I guess my net phosphor footprint is zero, for now. [1] well, I expect it's repairable, but HV scares me, as it should. -- Jeff Woolsey {{woolsey,jlw}@jlw,first.last@{gmail,jlw}}.com Nature abhors straight antennas, clean lenses, and empty storage. "Delete! Delete! OK!" -Dr. Bronner on disk space management Card-sorting, Joel. -Crow on solitaire |
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Re: Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing?
"What are we accomplishing"...quite simple really, keeping the hobby, and some of the highest quality stuff ever bestowed the label "Made in USA", alive! Newcomers are lifeblood, and sour old men scaring them away with rhetoric like post this accomplishes nothing positive. It's gatekeeping, pure and simple. Instead, why not pass on your knowledge and be happy in knowing that it isn't going to die when you do. Sorry to be blunt, but that's really important. Given proper care, a lot these Tek scopes will probably last several more decades in good service to the hobbyist, but only if younger folks have an appreciation for them and a desire to preserve them.
This is a fantastic group for preserving that knowledge base, and I thank Dennis for working hard to provide it and keep it that way. Sean |
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Re: Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing?
Sorry if a bit off topic -
"Statistics are like bikinis and Speedos; what they reveal is interesting but what they conceal is vital." SteveH On Wed, May 27, 2020, 11:26 Michael W. Lynch via groups.io <mlynch003= [email protected]> wrote: LarryS 9:52am #16751387% of all statistics are made up on the spot.Larry, |
Mlynch001
Jason A.
Michael W. Lynch
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