Re: TOPIC CHANGE: Pro's and Con's of the 576 and 577 Curve Tracers. WAS: 5xx 'Scopes
Hi Dave,
What became the 5000 series of scopes originally had confusing names such as D11, etc. These original product names were changed (which caused even more confusion for a while) to the 5000 series. It was for the better because it was similar to the way it's big brother (7000 series) was named.
Dennis Tillman W7PF
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave Daniel Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [TekScopes] TOPIC CHANGE: Pro's and Con's of the 576 and 577 Curve Tracers. WAS: 5xx 'Scopes What is a ¡°D11¡±? DaveD Sent from a small flat thingy On Aug 15, 2019, at 11:38, Raymond Domp Frank <hewpatek@...> wrote:
On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 04:04 PM, Mlynch001 wrote:
I was looking at the schematics and was wondering if, push comes to
shove, it is possible to "add" the storage function to the D2, using
parts scavenged from a 5111/5103(D11)
I modified my 577D2 into a 577D1 by replacing its display module with a D11 storage module. No big deal to swap the complete units; Tek built and configured their nonstorage- and storage mainframes in the 5000-series that way. Unless you modify the D11's front panel, you'll even have a non-operating calibration current loop on the front of your 577.
Raymond -- Dennis Tillman W7PF TekScopes Moderator
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Hi Michael,
Not a problem. It happens.
The "5xx Scopes" thread has run for a long time with many "branches". Some members may erroneously think the 575 curve tracer was part of the 500 series of scopes. It really isn't. Our members with an interest in curve tracers probably were not following the 5xx 'Scopes topic so I wanted to be sure they saw the shift in focus to curve tracers in general.
Dennis Tillman W7PF
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Mlynch001 Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 7:20 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 5xx 'Scopes All: For continued curve tracer discussion see "TOPIC CHANGE: Pro's and Con's of the 576 and 577 Curve Tracers. WAS: 5xx 'Scopes" message ID 158911. I did not intend to hijack this discussion thread, Thanks! Michael Lynch Dardanelle, AR -- Dennis Tillman W7PF TekScopes Moderator
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Re: TOPIC CHANGE: Pro's and Con's of the 576 and 577 Curve Tracers. WAS: 5xx 'Scopes
Hi Michael,
If the 577 is modular (I have no idea if that is the case but there is a slight possibility it is) and Tek took the top half of the 5000 series scope (display) as a unit and attached it to the bottom half of the 577 then it might be possible.
A simpler solution would be to bring out the vertical and horizontal deflection signals from the 577 and feed them to the inputs of an XY storage monitor or scope. I did exactly this when I was having problems with the CRT of my 577. It took a few hours to do this neatly and make the cables necessary. Now if my CRT ever acts up again I can quickly connect another scope or 600 series monitor up to view the signals.
Dennis
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Mlynch001 Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 7:04 AM Dennis, I welcome the change of topic. I felt like I "Hijacked" the 5xx thread. Here is my issue, I have a 577D2 (non-storage) and that is the one thing about it that I do miss and feel is most useful "different" feature of the 577. I wanted the D1 as my first choice, but the D2 presented itself at a good price, so I bought it, on the chance that I could fix it and resell later. I have several 5000 and 7000 series storage scopes, so I have worked with them enough to understand the limitations and finicky nature of the technology. I was looking at the schematics and was wondering if, push comes to shove, it is possible to "add" the storage function to the D2, using parts scavenged from a 5111/5103(D11)? It seems that the differences are very few between them. The simpler thing may be to just wait on the right 577D1 to pop up for repair? I am finding that repairing these instruments is not as difficult as learning to use them properly. I am leaning toward keeping both instruments, at least for the time being. Anyway, I appreciate your detailed answer and insights! Sincerely, -- Michael Lynch Dardanelle, AR -- Dennis Tillman W7PF TekScopes Moderator
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Re: TOPIC CHANGE: Pro's and Con's of the 576 and 577 Curve Tracers. WAS: 5xx 'Scopes
What is a ¡°D11¡±?
DaveD
Sent from a small flat thingy
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On Aug 15, 2019, at 11:38, Raymond Domp Frank <hewpatek@...> wrote:
On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 04:04 PM, Mlynch001 wrote:
I was looking at the schematics and was wondering if, push comes to shove, it
is possible to "add" the storage function to the D2, using parts scavenged
from a 5111/5103(D11)
I modified my 577D2 into a 577D1 by replacing its display module with a D11 storage module. No big deal to swap the complete units; Tek built and configured their nonstorage- and storage mainframes in the 5000-series that way. Unless you modify the D11's front panel, you'll even have a non-operating calibration current loop on the front of your 577.
Raymond
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Re: TOPIC CHANGE: Pro's and Con's of the 576 and 577 Curve Tracers. WAS: 5xx 'Scopes
On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 04:04 PM, Mlynch001 wrote:
I was looking at the schematics and was wondering if, push comes to shove, it
is possible to "add" the storage function to the D2, using parts scavenged
from a 5111/5103(D11)
I modified my 577D2 into a 577D1 by replacing its display module with a D11 storage module. No big deal to swap the complete units; Tek built and configured their nonstorage- and storage mainframes in the 5000-series that way. Unless you modify the D11's front panel, you'll even have a non-operating calibration current loop on the front of your 577. Raymond
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Re: 2445A Sweep and Other Questions
OK, message understood. Steady as she goes. Sent by Paul Gallimore From: Tony Fleming Sent: 15 August 2019 14:43 To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 2445A Sweep and Other Questions Take lots of pictures and video, while disassembling your scope and notes...etc! Replace what is bad, don't fix that isn't broken! These scopes are very good quality and few parts here and there are needing attention but that is it! On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 2:48 AM Paul Gallimore <paulmk22@...> wrote: Yes, I think this is what I will do. The scope is obviously old enough
that the caps will have leaked, so I'll go with that as a starting point.
I'll let everybody know how it goes.
Thanks.
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Re: TOPIC CHANGE: Pro's and Con's of the 576 and 577 Curve Tracers. WAS: 5xx 'Scopes
regarding the 575, 576 and 577 curve tracers, I posted the following in 2013 and generated no response:
"....The Tektronix 575 curve tracer measures the current in the Device Under Test by the use of a floating collector power supply with the current converted to a voltage at a resistor in the power supply¡¯s return leg.? The 576 uses the same technique (except in the leakage mode), but the 577 used a grounded collector supply and a floating current sense amplifier.
?
The earlier technique was obviously preferable in the tube era, due to the complexities of a floating amplifier, but with the floating amplifier design, one gains the advantage that the energy in the amplifier is negligible compared to that in the collector supply, and therefore the amplifier¡¯s magnetic components (used for isolation) can be small, with lower cost and lower stray capacitance.? Granted, in considering stray capacitance, the bandwidth is low, but the currents being measured are also quite low. The 575 unmagnified vertical sensitivity is 10 microamperes, the 576 is one microampere and the 577 is two nanoamperes"
In addition to the curve tracer's size, layout of controls, collector voltage and current range, and lack or presence of storage and readout, the circuit architecture has this significant difference.
Trevor
PS my vote is keep both the 576 and 577 and sell something else
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On Thursday, August 15, 2019, 10:09:29 AM EDT, Dave Daniel <kc0wjn@...> wrote: I have the same question, as my 577D1 mysteriously disappeared during my recent move; a friend gave me a 577D2 upon arrival in FL. DaveD On 8/15/2019 10:04 AM, Mlynch001 wrote: Dennis,
I welcome the change of topic.? I felt like I "Hijacked" the 5xx thread.? Here is my issue, I have a 577D2 (non-storage)? and that is the one thing about it that I do miss and feel is most useful "different" feature of the 577.? I wanted the D1 as my first choice, but the D2 presented itself at a good price, so I bought it, on the chance that I could fix it and resell later.? I have several 5000 and 7000 series storage scopes, so I have worked with them enough to understand the limitations and finicky nature of the technology.? ? I was looking at the schematics and was wondering if, push comes to shove, it is possible to "add" the storage function to the D2, using parts scavenged? from a 5111/5103(D11)?? It seems that the differences are very few between them.? The simpler thing may be to just wait on the right 577D1 to pop up for repair?? I am finding that repairing these instruments is not as difficult as learning to use them properly.? I am leaning toward keeping both instruments, at least for the time being.? Anyway, I appreciate your detailed answer and insights!
Sincerely,
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Re: Round pin connector on minigrabbers
On Aug 15, 2019, at 12:34, Brian Cockburn <brian.cockburn.1959@...> wrote:
Carsten,
Just for reference those square posts are 25 thousanths of an inch (0.025"). Sometimes it's more appropriate to describe something in its original units for clarity and absolute accuracy. (A classic example is the connector pitch 3.96 mm which is more correctly 5/32¡± (actually 0.15625" and 3.96875 mm).
Indeed, when you give a pitch, you want to be as close as possible so the rounding error does not multiply along the line. (Remember soviet era ICs with 2.5 mm pitch?) Not so sure about wire wrap posts; these surely started as 1/40 in == 0.635 mm, but today they are made in China so are more likely to be 0.64 mm. It doesn¡¯t matter anyway, because this isn¡¯t a pitch, so 0.64 mm / (1/40 in) = 0.8 % off, which is probably much less than the tolerance under which these are made. (The most likely pitch for these is 2.54 mm or 1/10 in; today¡¯s boards are moving to 2.0 mm or smaller pitches.) Note that chips today often have 0.65 mm pitch (e.g., SOT363), which is 0.0256 in¡ Now if you have the design dimension of the round pin in the minigrabbers in inch only, I¡¯ll still be happy :-) Gr¨¹?e, Carsten PS.: Speaking of 3.96 mm connectors; my Keithley 192 [Keithley is ~ Tektronix now :-)] has a 2x6 surface card edge connector (male) coming out of the back. What would people prefer as a good female wire-line mate?
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Re: Saving A5 Timing Board NVRAM calibration constants CSA803 (A/C) and 11801(B/C)
Hi all, I just found some more information on the T1331 error and consequences. I have posted it in a new topic:
"11801C and the T1331 error: lost factory TB calibration data." Hope this is useful
Monica A
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Re: TDS460A Will not turn on?
On Thursday, August 15, 2019, 9:28:52 AM CDT, Dave Daniel <kc0wjn@...> wrote: >One more simple thing to check, if you have not already done so: is there power at the wall socket? Dave, I thought of that.? It is plugged into a power strip with other instruments, which are working.? I even switched it to a "known good" socket in another strip, just to be safe.? It is something internal, I fear.? Appreciate your advice, I wish it had been that simple. Thanks! ?? Michael Lynch?479-226-0126 Home Phone479-477-1115 Cell Phonemlynch001@ [email protected]@... ? On Thursday, August 15, 2019, 9:28:52 AM CDT, Dave Daniel <kc0wjn@...> wrote: One more simple thing to check, if you have not already done so: is there power at the wall socket? DaveD Sent from a small flat thingy On Aug 15, 2019, at 10:16, Mlynch001 <mlynch002@...> wrote:
All:
I have a problem with my TDS460A.? The thing Worked great last time I used it and has been sitting for 3-4 days at most.? I try to turn it on from the front panel and now NOTHING!? It was perfect last time it came on, no hint of any pending issues.? Power is good, fuse is good, power switch on back is on.? Boards and caps look great inside, no signs of leakage or "magic smoke".? Not much experience with these scopes, so looking for someone in the group who might have faced this issue in the past.? A "simple" fix would be a welcome result.
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR
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Re: TDS460A Will not turn on?
One more simple thing to check, if you have not already done so: is there power at the wall socket?
DaveD
Sent from a small flat thingy
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On Aug 15, 2019, at 10:16, Mlynch001 <mlynch002@...> wrote:
All:
I have a problem with my TDS460A. The thing Worked great last time I used it and has been sitting for 3-4 days at most. I try to turn it on from the front panel and now NOTHING! It was perfect last time it came on, no hint of any pending issues. Power is good, fuse is good, power switch on back is on. Boards and caps look great inside, no signs of leakage or "magic smoke". Not much experience with these scopes, so looking for someone in the group who might have faced this issue in the past. A "simple" fix would be a welcome result.
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR
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11801C and the T1331 error: lost factory TB calibration data.
Hi, first post to this forum. I have very much enjoyed browsing, and thought I could contribute with this information. Thanks guys for keeping this forum so interesting. The T1331 (loss of battery backed up information in the Time Base/Controller board NVRAMs) seems to be an error to avoid, by backing up/replacing the NVRAMs on that board. See e.g. the topic "Saving A5 Timing Board NVRAM calibration constants CSA803 (A/C) and 11801(B/C)" for how to. To answer some question raised there, here is some information from the Tektronix documentation.
In the 11801C User Manual (070-9971-01), on p. 3-112 (p.262/440 of the pdf), I found this:
"Initializing and Erasing Nonvolatile RAM:
...
The following information is not lost:
...
- Factory calibration constants, which are established at the factory and cannot be changed by the user or by the 11801C
- Enhanced Accuracy calibration constants, which are periodically calculated and updated
..."
And in the 11801C Service Manual (070-9972-02) on p. 6-108 (p.244/286) it is stated:
"Time Base Calibration Errors:
...
Calibration data to enhance the time interpolator linearity is stored in NVRAM on the Time Base/Controller board. If this NVRAM fails, a T1331 error occurs during power-up diagnostics. The values are written at the factory with the GPIB command CALCORRECTION.
CALCORRECTION<ui>:N
where <ui> = 0..32 and N = -128..+127
CAUTION: The calibration enhancement values are set at time of manufacture. There is no query form of this command. Do NOT reset these values. If a T1331 failure occurs during extended power-up diagnostics or you suspect a time interpolator error, contact Tekronix factory service.
A T1331 failure causes all N values in the 33 ui locations to be reset to zero. The oscilloscope will still run, but with decreased accuracy in the time interpolator linearity. Resetting NVRAM with the Teksecure feature does not affect the Time Base/Controller board NVRAM."
So now the big question seems to be:
Does anybody in the group know, or know who might know, how the factory calibration procedure is, how the 33 N-values are determined?
Does anybody know how much the accuracy is affected?
Monica A.
PS:
I have for many years been a Tektronix scopes addict, It started with the fascination in late 60's and early 70's, when I saw and used a 535 with Type CA plugin at my father's workplace. Being interested in electronics, this was heaven. I now have a 7904a with sampling and non-sampling plugins, a 7704a which rudely enough let the smoke out of the power supply, a newly acquired 7603, and a 468. The design and layout of the fronts are just so great. An 11801C is on the way in, so I have used search a lot lately. It is said to pass POST, and a picture shows the graticule on the screen, so hopefully it's OK.
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All:
For continued curve tracer discussion see "TOPIC CHANGE: Pro's and Con's of the 576 and 577 Curve Tracers. WAS: 5xx 'Scopes" message ID 158911.
I did not intend to hijack this discussion thread,
Thanks!
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR
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TDS460A Will not turn on?
All:
I have a problem with my TDS460A. The thing Worked great last time I used it and has been sitting for 3-4 days at most. I try to turn it on from the front panel and now NOTHING! It was perfect last time it came on, no hint of any pending issues. Power is good, fuse is good, power switch on back is on. Boards and caps look great inside, no signs of leakage or "magic smoke". Not much experience with these scopes, so looking for someone in the group who might have faced this issue in the past. A "simple" fix would be a welcome result.
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR
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Re: 2465B power supply update
Chuck, your notes are perfect, and exactly what the 2465B power supply novice needs to avoid damage and frustration!
Yes this is GPIB CTT so fully optioned. Can the PSU run with just a few of the loads or should ever supply have the appropriate load?
Cheers,
Jon
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Re: There is: Tekwiki Is there a HP - Agilent - Keysight wiki
Equally, through does not equate to thorough. sorry, larry
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On Aug 15, 2019, at 10:05 AM, Dave Daniel <kc0wjn@...> wrote:
There is another groups.io group, "HP-Agilent-Keysight_equipment", that offers a level of information about HP ... equipment similar to the level on this (TekScopes) forum.
There is also a TekScopes2 group.io group.
DaveD
On 8/15/2019 9:59 AM, Lawrance A. Schneider wrote:
Hi,
I¡¯ve bought a Agilent E3630A power supply. It has not arrived yet, but the display does not work - according to the person from whom I bought it.
So, I'm looking for as much info as I can acquire so as to be ready to repair it. I presently have a HP 3312A function generator. It works fine but it is not in calibration. So again, while there seems to be ¡°lots¡± of info about Tektronix text equipment, there seems to lesserly about HP¡
Thanks larry
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Re: TOPIC CHANGE: Pro's and Con's of the 576 and 577 Curve Tracers. WAS: 5xx 'Scopes
I have the same question, as my 577D1 mysteriously disappeared during my
recent move; a friend gave me a 577D2 upon arrival in FL.
DaveD
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On 8/15/2019 10:04 AM, Mlynch001 wrote: Dennis,
I welcome the change of topic. I felt like I "Hijacked" the 5xx thread. Here is my issue, I have a 577D2 (non-storage) and that is the one thing about it that I do miss and feel is most useful "different" feature of the 577. I wanted the D1 as my first choice, but the D2 presented itself at a good price, so I bought it, on the chance that I could fix it and resell later. I have several 5000 and 7000 series storage scopes, so I have worked with them enough to understand the limitations and finicky nature of the technology. I was looking at the schematics and was wondering if, push comes to shove, it is possible to "add" the storage function to the D2, using parts scavenged from a 5111/5103(D11)? It seems that the differences are very few between them. The simpler thing may be to just wait on the right 577D1 to pop up for repair? I am finding that repairing these instruments is not as difficult as learning to use them properly. I am leaning toward keeping both instruments, at least for the time being. Anyway, I appreciate your detailed answer and insights!
Sincerely,
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Re: There is: Tekwiki Is there a HP - Agilent - Keysight wiki
Thank you. I should have said I had joined that group There does not seem to be much there about my problem.
Again, I¡¯m sorry I was not more through in my original post, larry
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On Aug 15, 2019, at 10:05 AM, Dave Daniel <kc0wjn@...> wrote:
There is another groups.io group, "HP-Agilent-Keysight_equipment", that offers a level of information about HP ... equipment similar to the level on this (TekScopes) forum.
There is also a TekScopes2 group.io group.
DaveD
On 8/15/2019 9:59 AM, Lawrance A. Schneider wrote:
Hi,
I¡¯ve bought a Agilent E3630A power supply. It has not arrived yet, but the display does not work - according to the person from whom I bought it.
So, I'm looking for as much info as I can acquire so as to be ready to repair it. I presently have a HP 3312A function generator. It works fine but it is not in calibration. So again, while there seems to be ¡°lots¡± of info about Tektronix text equipment, there seems to lesserly about HP¡
Thanks larry
|
Re: There is: Tekwiki Is there a HP - Agilent - Keysight wiki
There is another groups.io group, "HP-Agilent-Keysight_equipment", that offers a level of information about HP ... equipment similar to the level on this (TekScopes) forum.
There is also a TekScopes2 group.io group.
DaveD
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 8/15/2019 9:59 AM, Lawrance A. Schneider wrote: Hi,
I¡¯ve bought a Agilent E3630A power supply. It has not arrived yet, but the display does not work - according to the person from whom I bought it.
So, I'm looking for as much info as I can acquire so as to be ready to repair it. I presently have a HP 3312A function generator. It works fine but it is not in calibration. So again, while there seems to be ¡°lots¡± of info about Tektronix text equipment, there seems to lesserly about HP¡
Thanks larry
|
Re: TOPIC CHANGE: Pro's and Con's of the 576 and 577 Curve Tracers. WAS: 5xx 'Scopes
Dennis,
I welcome the change of topic. I felt like I "Hijacked" the 5xx thread. Here is my issue, I have a 577D2 (non-storage) and that is the one thing about it that I do miss and feel is most useful "different" feature of the 577. I wanted the D1 as my first choice, but the D2 presented itself at a good price, so I bought it, on the chance that I could fix it and resell later. I have several 5000 and 7000 series storage scopes, so I have worked with them enough to understand the limitations and finicky nature of the technology. I was looking at the schematics and was wondering if, push comes to shove, it is possible to "add" the storage function to the D2, using parts scavenged from a 5111/5103(D11)? It seems that the differences are very few between them. The simpler thing may be to just wait on the right 577D1 to pop up for repair? I am finding that repairing these instruments is not as difficult as learning to use them properly. I am leaning toward keeping both instruments, at least for the time being. Anyway, I appreciate your detailed answer and insights!
Sincerely,
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR
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Raymond Domp Frank
Michael W. Lynch
Mlynch001
Jean-Paul