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On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 04:19 PM, nonIonizing EMF wrote:

Is there a NIST reference that is in general someone is aware of or otherwise?

Looks like pg.72 of this document ( ) has the reference to the second question that I poorly worded.

The answer to the first question is like I was thinking since I worked on and with SRM's... for electronic devices Standard Reference Instrument's (SRI's) are used. I'll have to read through and compare what is noted in the Tektronix equipment documents.


Seems there are older NSB standards that might be able to be made DIY homebrew since some I'd think are based on physical properties of pure chemical/elemental materials and their properties and reactions.

Does anyone know what Tektronix uses as NIST standards or NIST traceable secondary standards or even proprietary?

On Wed, 1 May 2019 22:00:36 -0500, you wrote:

Thanks for a fast reply Harvey!
I'm not a professional, just a hobbyist and I love to fix anything I get my
hands on.

Well, I've been in electronics for a while, and even earned money
doing it, so I guess I qualify as a professional of sorts.

When I see how people dump everything, before thinking to fix it, it makes
me sick how wasteful we become.

Some of this stuff is not possible to repair without tools and parts
not available to most...

If I could fix stuff for free I would, that is how much I love to give
anything a second, third... chance to do its work.
Helping handicapped and old/poor people brings me more joy, when I see
their eyes sparkling again!
So not for now I don't need a perfect scope, but a working one that gets me
there. My plans are to teach anyone some basic electronics and encourage
them to have a hobby.....

A good Tektronix scope will be a joy, *if* they can appreciate it.

I once brought a 7000 series scope into a classrom with a 7CT1N (curve
tracer) plugin so I could demonstrate transistor curves.

One of the students looked at it and said "old tech".

He's right, but his view is a trifle narrow....

For now the scope does something, that is much more than when I received
it, so now I like to play and learn, since my modern scope is nothing like
2465 DMS.

likely not.

But I always wanted Tek scope so I have one and it needs a checkup and or a
way to make it work well.

Well, the basic checks are useful for functionality. IIRC, there are
some functional checks in the service manual.

You can check the sweep at least by looking at the relative numbers of
cycles going from one range to another. You won't get exact, but
you'll see if 20 us/div is about right.

Ditto for the vertical section.

I found on eBay *Tektronix PG506 - * but they are mostly a PLUG-IN style.
Can I run it without a housing?

No.

It's made to go into a TM500 style housing. It's a power supply unit
with individual (and somewhat odd) voltages available to each
plugin...

Generally comes in 1,3, 4, and 6 module sizes. The 5 unit is made to
be portable. There may be a 2 unit size, but I'm not sure.

TM 501, TM503, TM504, TM515 (portable), and TM506. The TM5000 series
is similar, somewhat larger, with the units being microprocessor based
and remote controllable.

Most of the TM500 units fit into the TM5000 frame, but no TM5000 unit
will fit into a TM500 frame.

When I look over the pictures for *Tektronix PG506 *it seems to me that the
power supply is in the base unit..... but I don't know anything about it.

You're right, that's where it is intended to go. There are some older
(perhaps tube) models of test generator, though.

Starting with say, a 20 Mhz oscillator, divide by 10, then 2 to get a
1 us period waveform. Divide by 5 then 2 to get a 2 Mhz waveform (500
ns period), divide by 2 to get a 100 ns period waveform, etc. With
the right frequencies and TTL divider chips, you can get yourself a
timing generator.

The 1-2-5 for voltage is harder, though.

I have skills and even 3D printer, so I can make something to cover the
back end, where I can make a power supply connect....

First just find the TM500 style plugin unit. Check out the TM500
series of plugins (DC 5xx, DM 5xx, PG5xx, etc. They may be a good
addition to your lab, within reason. They're not wonderful, but they
are decently made.

I'll keep your email and start looking for a complete *Tektronix PG506, *it
can be a great addition to my tools here.

Read the description first, and don't spend tons of money on it.

What you'd be getting is the amplitude part of a calibration
generator, that puts out voltages in the 1-2-5 sequence that Tektronix
uses. It's very convenient and was intended to help calibrate their
vertical plugins and vertical channels.

The more scopes you have, the more you may need this, but think about
it first. There's a lot you can do to work around not having one.

Harvey, you are great help and the rest of the guys here are also very
helpful, I'm glad to belong to Tektronix group!

It's a good group.

You make me smile more and more!

Keep asking questions. There's no perfect setup, and a number of
workarounds.

Harvey

Tony


On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 9:34 PM Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:

On Wed, 1 May 2019 21:10:39 -0500, you wrote:

Since I'm new to Tektronix 2465 DMS with DMM, what "signal standardizer"
model number would I need?

DC voltage standard (PG506 will work, set it on DC for the DMM). works
for the scope too.

Does anyone have one and what should I look for in a used unit?

good cosmetics, good reports on the seller, and an idea of what you'd
have to replace if things were bad.

Are they mostly good or is there some parts that make them less reliable?

Ebay and local and you takes your chances....

Where do you buy your parts and who is reliable to buy from for

Tektronix?

Major distributors (Mouser, Digikey, Arrow, etc) for standard parts.

Sphere and Qservice are most reliable, buying another with a different
problem is often quite useful.

I do have Aktakom Function Signal Generator, 50MHz - 2 channels. Is that
good enough?

For waveforms, maybe. (linearity).

How do you measure the voltages, and the frequencies (vertical and
horizontal calibration)?

Function generator may not be enough, depending on how serious you
want to get.

Harvey

Thank you guys, you have helped me a lot!
Tony

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 9:03 PM Harvey White <madyn@...>

wrote:

On Wed, 1 May 2019 18:13:05 -0400, you wrote:

With four 7000 series scopes in my lab, I've been patiently waiting for
a 067-0587-00,01, or 02 signal standardizer for about a year now and I
finally grabbed one today. They've been going for pretty big money

(worth

more than the scope itself) but I managed to snag it for $77 (with
shipping) off of eBay.

My one concern of course is that it works and doesn't need some form of
rehabilitation.

I will soon find out.

Most of mine worked. The digital circuitry, as I remember it, is
relatively simple. Just checked the listing. Looks clean from here.

Good luck.

Harvey

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 11:13 AM Harvey White <madyn@...>

wrote:

On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 12:47:26 -0700, you wrote:

Hi All,

I need one, good working scope to get started on repairing the

other 30

or so scopes around here. I have a multitude of Tek 7000 frames to

choose

from but I think the 7904 (or 7904A) is a good place to start. Once

that's

working + cal'ed I can at least troubleshoot and maybe repair the

others.

Where can I get one professionally calibrated in the greater Detroit

area? I can drive a fair distance, but I'm scared to ship. I've had

two

7934's, a 7834, and a 7704A crushed in separate shipping mishaps.

Can't help you there, I'm in the southeast. However...

Also...which plug ins are recommended to cal for building my golden

scope? I have a collection...

The typical plugins for a 7904 (and that's a good choice, IMHO) are

at

least one if not two 7A26, and a 7B92A (which I happen to like). If
you want the flexibility of two sweep plugins, the 7B80 and 7B85 will
do. If you have a 7103/4 and a 7B10 and 7B15, you could use them but
the sweep is not calibrated at the highest frequencies, but those
could be moved over to the 7103/4 when needed.

For things you'd want:

067-0587-01 signal standardizer. The 01 is intended for 500 mhz
scopes, the 00 is for lower bandwidth, and the 02 is for the 1GHz
bandwidth scopes. Needed to keep the mainframes all agreeing with
each other as well as provides some nice linearity and gain signals.
You could use the 00, but it wouldn't allow you to check out the
frequency response to the limit of the scope's bandwidth for higher
bandwidth scopes.

PG506/TG501 SG503/SG504 TM500 plugins that provide calibration
signals for vertical and timebase checking, as well as frequency
response. Those will do any scope. The signal standardizer is
specifically for 7000 series mainframes.

You could also go with a CG501 (TM500) or a CG5001 (TM5000) module
with the appropriate frame. Note that the CG series may need a
specific head to supply the right signals. Those heads may be
difficult to find.

My favorite (depending) setup in a 7904 is a 7A26 (or 7A24 if I need
more bandwidth and can tolerate a 50 ohm input plugin), a 7D12 with

an

M2 (sampling) module, a 7D15 counter, and a 7B92A sweep.

Harvey

'Special Edition' is what Tek designated the 2465 series you ask about. It was a 'Top of Line' designation with fully or nearly fully optioned packages offered at a discount and consisted of three Special Edition models (slightly ReDesignated when suffixed as A/B). The carring handles display 'Special Edition' on the label.

2465 CTS options - GPIB, CTT/WR (counter/timer with word recognizer).
2465 DMS options - GPIB, CTT/WR + DMM.
2465 DVM options - GPIB, CTT/WR, DMM + TV.

2465A CT options - GPIB, CTT/WR.
2465A DM options - GPIB, CTT/WR + DMM.
2465A DV options - GPIB, CTT/WR, DMM + TV.

2465B CT options - GPIB, CTT/WR.
2465B DM options - GPIB, CTT/WR + DMM.
2465B DV options - GPIB, CTT/WR, DMM + TV.

Regarding probes, I think all 2465 scopes (Special Edition or not) were supplied with 4 probes, Unless ordered with option 22 which DELETED 2 probes.

options designations:
GPIB 10
CTT/WR 9
DMM 1
TV 5

Thanks for a fast reply Harvey!
I'm not a professional, just a hobbyist and I love to fix anything I get my
hands on.
When I see how people dump everything, before thinking to fix it, it makes
me sick how wasteful we become.
If I could fix stuff for free I would, that is how much I love to give
anything a second, third... chance to do its work.
Helping handicapped and old/poor people brings me more joy, when I see
their eyes sparkling again!
So not for now I don't need a perfect scope, but a working one that gets me
there. My plans are to teach anyone some basic electronics and encourage
them to have a hobby.....
For now the scope does something, that is much more than when I received
it, so now I like to play and learn, since my modern scope is nothing like
2465 DMS.
But I always wanted Tek scope so I have one and it needs a checkup and or a
way to make it work well.
I found on eBay *Tektronix PG506 - * but they are mostly a PLUG-IN style.
Can I run it without a housing?
When I look over the pictures for *Tektronix PG506 *it seems to me that the
power supply is in the base unit..... but I don't know anything about it.
I have skills and even 3D printer, so I can make something to cover the
back end, where I can make a power supply connect....
I'll keep your email and start looking for a complete *Tektronix PG506, *it
can be a great addition to my tools here.
Harvey, you are great help and the rest of the guys here are also very
helpful, I'm glad to belong to Tektronix group!
You make me smile more and more!
Tony

On Wed, 1 May 2019 21:10:39 -0500, you wrote:

Since I'm new to Tektronix 2465 DMS with DMM, what "signal standardizer"
model number would I need?

DC voltage standard (PG506 will work, set it on DC for the DMM). works
for the scope too.

Does anyone have one and what should I look for in a used unit?

good cosmetics, good reports on the seller, and an idea of what you'd
have to replace if things were bad.

Are they mostly good or is there some parts that make them less reliable?

Ebay and local and you takes your chances....

Where do you buy your parts and who is reliable to buy from for Tektronix?

Major distributors (Mouser, Digikey, Arrow, etc) for standard parts.

Sphere and Qservice are most reliable, buying another with a different
problem is often quite useful.

I do have Aktakom Function Signal Generator, 50MHz - 2 channels. Is that
good enough?

For waveforms, maybe. (linearity).

How do you measure the voltages, and the frequencies (vertical and
horizontal calibration)?

Function generator may not be enough, depending on how serious you
want to get.

Harvey

Thank you guys, you have helped me a lot!
Tony

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 9:03 PM Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:

On Wed, 1 May 2019 18:13:05 -0400, you wrote:

With four 7000 series scopes in my lab, I've been patiently waiting for
a 067-0587-00,01, or 02 signal standardizer for about a year now and I
finally grabbed one today. They've been going for pretty big money (worth
more than the scope itself) but I managed to snag it for $77 (with
shipping) off of eBay.

My one concern of course is that it works and doesn't need some form of
rehabilitation.

I will soon find out.

Most of mine worked. The digital circuitry, as I remember it, is
relatively simple. Just checked the listing. Looks clean from here.

Good luck.

Harvey

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 11:13 AM Harvey White <madyn@...>

wrote:

On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 12:47:26 -0700, you wrote:

Hi All,

I need one, good working scope to get started on repairing the other 30

or so scopes around here. I have a multitude of Tek 7000 frames to

choose

from but I think the 7904 (or 7904A) is a good place to start. Once

that's

working + cal'ed I can at least troubleshoot and maybe repair the

others.

Where can I get one professionally calibrated in the greater Detroit

area? I can drive a fair distance, but I'm scared to ship. I've had

two

7934's, a 7834, and a 7704A crushed in separate shipping mishaps.

Can't help you there, I'm in the southeast. However...

Also...which plug ins are recommended to cal for building my golden

scope? I have a collection...

The typical plugins for a 7904 (and that's a good choice, IMHO) are at
least one if not two 7A26, and a 7B92A (which I happen to like). If
you want the flexibility of two sweep plugins, the 7B80 and 7B85 will
do. If you have a 7103/4 and a 7B10 and 7B15, you could use them but
the sweep is not calibrated at the highest frequencies, but those
could be moved over to the 7103/4 when needed.

For things you'd want:

067-0587-01 signal standardizer. The 01 is intended for 500 mhz
scopes, the 00 is for lower bandwidth, and the 02 is for the 1GHz
bandwidth scopes. Needed to keep the mainframes all agreeing with
each other as well as provides some nice linearity and gain signals.
You could use the 00, but it wouldn't allow you to check out the
frequency response to the limit of the scope's bandwidth for higher
bandwidth scopes.

PG506/TG501 SG503/SG504 TM500 plugins that provide calibration
signals for vertical and timebase checking, as well as frequency
response. Those will do any scope. The signal standardizer is
specifically for 7000 series mainframes.

You could also go with a CG501 (TM500) or a CG5001 (TM5000) module
with the appropriate frame. Note that the CG series may need a
specific head to supply the right signals. Those heads may be
difficult to find.

My favorite (depending) setup in a 7904 is a 7A26 (or 7A24 if I need
more bandwidth and can tolerate a 50 ohm input plugin), a 7D12 with an
M2 (sampling) module, a 7D15 counter, and a 7B92A sweep.

Harvey

On Wed, 1 May 2019 21:02:32 -0500, you wrote:

Great information, and thank you for that.
The option 22 are some probes - but I do not know what probes they were.
If you know, or anyone else, let me know please.
Do you have, or do you know where I can get the software for the P6407/GPIB
Word Recog?
I also would like to know how to use it - I can't find much on the Internet
about it.
But someone is sending me the P6407, it should be here by end of next week.

There's a digital trigger option with a word recognizer, that allows
you to trigger on a digital pattern. That's what the P6407 is used
for. The GPIB option would simply allow you to set that pattern, if
at all, and whatever trigger qualities you need.

Attach the leads to digital signals, set the pattern you want for a
trigger, and the scope should trigger on that one. Never really used
it on my 2430A, but got the trigger generator anyway. Turns out to be
more useful to have a logic analyzer for what I was doing, and I do.

This was a foray into the logic analyzer domain of products to allow
the scope different characteristics.

You use this for digital only and a logic analyzer is better. You use
a digital trigger to look at an analog waveform, and you need either
this scope or we need a logic analyzer with a scope plugin (or
triggering of the scope from the LA.

Harvey

You have a great day!
Tony

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 6:27 PM Ken Winterling <wa2lbi@...> wrote:

Tony,

FYI, Tektronix produced a number of 2465 model "packages" that included
certain options. I have 2465DVS and it has a DMM.

*Model Includes options*
2465 CTS 9, 10, 22
2465 DMS 1, 9, 10, 22
2465 DVS 1, 5, 9, 10, 22
2465A CT 9, 10, 22
2465A DM 1, 9, 10, 22
2465A DV 1, 5, 9, 10, 22
2465B CT 9, 10, 22
2465B DM 1, 9, 10, 22
2465B DV 1, 5, 9, 10, 22



Ken
WA2LBI





On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 7:03 PM Tony Fleming <czecht@...> wrote:

My scope is 2465 DMS and it has DMM also - not an add-on.
Someone said that mine is 2465 CTS (but I think all CRT scopes can be
called that).
As per catalog Tektronix put out, I could not find my model either!
But there are many catalogs that are incomplete, I think.
If your scope works, the manual for 2465B should be the same.
Also, look at the back of your scope and find a silver tape that has
options printed on it with small holes punched out, if you have that
option.
That is how mine has options 1, 9, 10 and GPIB port.
See if on the back is any other "model number".

I'm looking for the software that would communicate with my computer -

does

anyone have the software and or manual for it?
Also, I have a port for P6407 - I also need as much help with that and
software that, I assume, it will need.

Tony

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 5:45 PM Dave Daniel <kc0wjn@...> wrote:

All,

I have a Trektronix 2465B that has the DMM option physically present.
Looking at the TekWki web page for the 2465B, I see photos that show
this 'scope branded as "2465BVD". My 'scope is branded as "2465B".

The DVM does not appear to have been an add-on.

Can anyone explain how a 2465B with the DMM option would not be branded
as a 2465BDV?

Thanks

DaveD

Since I'm new to Tektronix 2465 DMS with DMM, what "signal standardizer"
model number would I need?
Does anyone have one and what should I look for in a used unit?
Are they mostly good or is there some parts that make them less reliable?
Where do you buy your parts and who is reliable to buy from for Tektronix?
I do have Aktakom Function Signal Generator, 50MHz - 2 channels. Is that
good enough?
Thank you guys, you have helped me a lot!
Tony

On Wed, 1 May 2019 15:15:59 -0700, you wrote:

And who calibrates the Calibrator ?

quis cusdodiet custiodes ipsos?

Somewhere, someplace, you need to trace it back to a standard, and
that becomes reality.

Harvey

And so, on it goes ....

73, Dick, W1KSZ

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 3:13 PM David Berlind <david@...> wrote:

With four 7000 series scopes in my lab, I've been patiently waiting for
a 067-0587-00,01, or 02 signal standardizer for about a year now and I
finally grabbed one today. They've been going for pretty big money (worth
more than the scope itself) but I managed to snag it for $77 (with
shipping) off of eBay.




My one concern of course is that it works and doesn't need some form of
rehabilitation.

I will soon find out.


On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 11:13 AM Harvey White <madyn@...>
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 12:47:26 -0700, you wrote:

Hi All,

I need one, good working scope to get started on repairing the other 30

or so scopes around here. I have a multitude of Tek 7000 frames to

choose

from but I think the 7904 (or 7904A) is a good place to start. Once

that's

working + cal'ed I can at least troubleshoot and maybe repair the

others.

Where can I get one professionally calibrated in the greater Detroit

area? I can drive a fair distance, but I'm scared to ship. I've had two
7934's, a 7834, and a 7704A crushed in separate shipping mishaps.

Can't help you there, I'm in the southeast. However...

Also...which plug ins are recommended to cal for building my golden

scope? I have a collection...

The typical plugins for a 7904 (and that's a good choice, IMHO) are at
least one if not two 7A26, and a 7B92A (which I happen to like). If
you want the flexibility of two sweep plugins, the 7B80 and 7B85 will
do. If you have a 7103/4 and a 7B10 and 7B15, you could use them but
the sweep is not calibrated at the highest frequencies, but those
could be moved over to the 7103/4 when needed.

For things you'd want:

067-0587-01 signal standardizer. The 01 is intended for 500 mhz
scopes, the 00 is for lower bandwidth, and the 02 is for the 1GHz
bandwidth scopes. Needed to keep the mainframes all agreeing with
each other as well as provides some nice linearity and gain signals.
You could use the 00, but it wouldn't allow you to check out the
frequency response to the limit of the scope's bandwidth for higher
bandwidth scopes.

PG506/TG501 SG503/SG504 TM500 plugins that provide calibration
signals for vertical and timebase checking, as well as frequency
response. Those will do any scope. The signal standardizer is
specifically for 7000 series mainframes.

You could also go with a CG501 (TM500) or a CG5001 (TM5000) module
with the appropriate frame. Note that the CG series may need a
specific head to supply the right signals. Those heads may be
difficult to find.

My favorite (depending) setup in a 7904 is a 7A26 (or 7A24 if I need
more bandwidth and can tolerate a 50 ohm input plugin), a 7D12 with an
M2 (sampling) module, a 7D15 counter, and a 7B92A sweep.

Harvey

On Wed, 1 May 2019 18:13:05 -0400, you wrote:

With four 7000 series scopes in my lab, I've been patiently waiting for
a 067-0587-00,01, or 02 signal standardizer for about a year now and I
finally grabbed one today. They've been going for pretty big money (worth
more than the scope itself) but I managed to snag it for $77 (with
shipping) off of eBay.



My one concern of course is that it works and doesn't need some form of
rehabilitation.

I will soon find out.

Most of mine worked. The digital circuitry, as I remember it, is
relatively simple. Just checked the listing. Looks clean from here.

Good luck.

Harvey

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 11:13 AM Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:

On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 12:47:26 -0700, you wrote:

Hi All,

I need one, good working scope to get started on repairing the other 30

or so scopes around here. I have a multitude of Tek 7000 frames to choose
from but I think the 7904 (or 7904A) is a good place to start. Once that's
working + cal'ed I can at least troubleshoot and maybe repair the others.

Where can I get one professionally calibrated in the greater Detroit

area? I can drive a fair distance, but I'm scared to ship. I've had two
7934's, a 7834, and a 7704A crushed in separate shipping mishaps.

Can't help you there, I'm in the southeast. However...

Also...which plug ins are recommended to cal for building my golden

scope? I have a collection...

The typical plugins for a 7904 (and that's a good choice, IMHO) are at
least one if not two 7A26, and a 7B92A (which I happen to like). If
you want the flexibility of two sweep plugins, the 7B80 and 7B85 will
do. If you have a 7103/4 and a 7B10 and 7B15, you could use them but
the sweep is not calibrated at the highest frequencies, but those
could be moved over to the 7103/4 when needed.

For things you'd want:

067-0587-01 signal standardizer. The 01 is intended for 500 mhz
scopes, the 00 is for lower bandwidth, and the 02 is for the 1GHz
bandwidth scopes. Needed to keep the mainframes all agreeing with
each other as well as provides some nice linearity and gain signals.
You could use the 00, but it wouldn't allow you to check out the
frequency response to the limit of the scope's bandwidth for higher
bandwidth scopes.

PG506/TG501 SG503/SG504 TM500 plugins that provide calibration
signals for vertical and timebase checking, as well as frequency
response. Those will do any scope. The signal standardizer is
specifically for 7000 series mainframes.

You could also go with a CG501 (TM500) or a CG5001 (TM5000) module
with the appropriate frame. Note that the CG series may need a
specific head to supply the right signals. Those heads may be
difficult to find.

My favorite (depending) setup in a 7904 is a 7A26 (or 7A24 if I need
more bandwidth and can tolerate a 50 ohm input plugin), a 7D12 with an
M2 (sampling) module, a 7D15 counter, and a 7B92A sweep.

Harvey

Great information, and thank you for that.
The option 22 are some probes - but I do not know what probes they were.
If you know, or anyone else, let me know please.
Do you have, or do you know where I can get the software for the P6407/GPIB
Word Recog?
I also would like to know how to use it - I can't find much on the Internet
about it.
But someone is sending me the P6407, it should be here by end of next week.
You have a great day!
Tony

On Wed, 1 May 2019 14:53:04 +0200, you wrote:

I hear conflicting reports on what one should do. What's your take?
Are there different types where you should or shouldn't?

Compressed air isn't. There's not enough room in the an.

Druckluft 67 (aka Dust Off 67) from Kontakt / CRC says not to shake
the can "or otherwise the fluid might come out", but is it always the
case with all types? What is that fluid for, anyways?

The fluid evaporates, produces gas, and that's what your "compressed
air" happens to be.

I read reviews of some cheaper compressed air products on amazon and
they complained about the quality. What can go wrong with compressed
air?

Liquid for one, which you don't want, and then again, what's the
liquid that's evaporating to give you this "air"?

Two things people brought up were one brand produced very weak
pressure, and another produced flammable rather than inert gas.

Depends on what's evaporating. Butane would work, so would freon, so
would a lot of other things, includin propane.

Druckluft 67 touts as being oil free. Are there other things that
might go wrong?

er..... what's in that liquid?

Why would someone use canned compressed air rather than an air compressor?

Because they don't have an air compressor. Because they don't know
the difference. Because they don't have a "quiet" air compressor.
Because they don't have the driers and particle filters to clean up
the output air from the compressor (which may or may not have oil in
it from the air pump).

Harvey

Thanks.

Tony,

FYI, Tektronix produced a number of 2465 model "packages" that included
certain options. I have 2465DVS and it has a DMM.

*Model Includes options*
2465 CTS 9, 10, 22
2465 DMS 1, 9, 10, 22
2465 DVS 1, 5, 9, 10, 22
2465A CT 9, 10, 22
2465A DM 1, 9, 10, 22
2465A DV 1, 5, 9, 10, 22
2465B CT 9, 10, 22
2465B DM 1, 9, 10, 22
2465B DV 1, 5, 9, 10, 22



Ken
WA2LBI

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 03:39 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:

the ultimate source of the standard instruments used

From what the 067-0587-02 manual states on pg.5-3 under "Notes" the use of NSB, or now day NIST, traceable standards for the frequency response as the ultimate source.

Wondering what that SRM or whatever is called is as well as is for the other test requirements and test equipment?

Is there a NIST reference that is in general someone is aware of or otherwise?

Thanks in advance.

Thank you all for the compliments. This is slightly off topic, but I think the context makes it useful.

My major project for the next 2-3 years is FOSS DSO FW for COTS Zynq and Cyclone V based instruments. I bought my 11801 so I could measure bit skew across various FIR and IIR filter topologies, It's a long slog getting set up, but I'm getting there. Not helped though by new toys like the 8566B which came yesterday. Or the 7x14 Chinese mini-lathe I bought to make go/no-go gauges for checking RF connectors. Teaching that to hold 0.0001" tolerances will be a chore. Doable, but time consuming. And first I have to fix the damage UPS did.

I started to work on building a rack from some scrap angle which had been hastily dumped in the drive to my shop. After carrying the 2nd load to the concrete part of the drive to wash it off I reached down to find a ft long copperhead making threatening moves not far from my hand. Fortunately it was not close enough to strike, so I proceeded to kill it. I don't mind snakes, but poisonous ones close to houses are bad news.

I've bought an FT-991A and an FT-818ND and hope eventually to get around to getting licensed and an antenna put up. But my real passion is T&M.

My frustration 30 years ago trying to do RF work without basic instruments or any chance of access to them is still palpable. So my biggest interest is cheap alternatives to expensive gear. I'll turn 66 in 2 weeks. In the last 18 months or so I've spent about $15K on old HP and Tek gear. I now have a lab that would have cost well over $200K 30 years ago. I feel incredibly lucky to have it. My sole bad experience was an SD-32 which came with an SMA F-F adapter soldered to the 2.4 mm input. I got full credit on the return today.

I'd much rather be working in the oil industry, but the work I did is only economic if oil is over $100/bbl. So I have no hope of ever working again. But if life hands you a lemon, it's time to look for lemonade recipes. So time to buy the bench of my dreams and get serious about electronics.

I'd thought of doing the TDR VNA program before I bought the 11801, but once I got that I was absolutely bewitched. The software is trivial to write, but there is a huge amount of stuff you can do just looking at the TDR trace. I'm reluctant to make pronouncements until I've actually verified the derivations. That will be painful. I was looking at a text by Robinson and Treitel, the stars of Norbert Wiener's GAG and rather befuddled by it. The depressing part is all the way through I checked off the equations as I verified them. So I *really* did understand that notation once upon a time. But over time you start using other notation for various reasons. The concepts don't change, but it's hard to double check something if the notation is not familiar.

Joel Dunsmore's book on VNA measurements impressed upon me how foreign the time domain is to many EEs when working in RF.

You really can't go past the BW of a DSO the way you could with an analog instrument. They've already gone too far. Keysight is selling 750 MHz DSOs as 1 GHz DSOs as is pretty much everyone else so far as I have seen. That and all the bugs is the motivation for the DSO FW project.

Spectrum flattening of the system response is the cornerstone of the work by GAG, the Wiener inverse filter, aka prediction error filter. Sadly in seismic processing shops it is often done improperly. When I started with Amoco I got concerned that what we were doing was not correct. So I called Sven Treitel at the Tulsa research lab and asked him. He said that my understanding was correct. What we were doing was wrong. And remarked, "Sometimes the prophet is not heeded in his own country."

For the sake of the wider audience I'm going to do the posts on EEVblog, but this and the HPAK list are much more congenial and more the sort of people I'm accustomed to working with. So I'd like you to hold my feet to the fire if I explain something badly.

I've worked for 7 oil companies, 6 of which no longer exist. I swear it's not my fault. Every place I worked it took about 6 months to learn the local jargon. When you're switching from time to frequency with each sentence it gets messy and everyone develops a local shorthand to save time.

The formulation for going from TDR to VNA is:

Collect multiple reflection events from an impulsive or square wave source

Window the reflection segments

Phase shift each window so the phases match

Sum the time domain traces

Fourier transform

Compute magnitude and phase

QED sort of...

You have to account for losses due to reflections from previous interfaces. Dunsmore calls this "the masking effect". There are a number of other details which one can run afoul of. As I have the 8753B and 11801 to compare the results from a 200 MHz Instek 8 bit DSO and a 100 MHz Owon 12 bit DSO using Leo's signal sources I'll be able to do good demonstrations of the finer details. There are a lot of retired EEs with top grade skills on this and the HPAK list. You are my referees of choice.

I'm not big on cyber space. I much preferred having the Stanford PhD across the hall wander in my office and start scribbling on my white board. Not because they were better company. I just like face to face better. But I live in rural Arkansas. There aren't many people like that to be found in a town of 7,000. So yu are all very important to me.

So again, thank you and...

Have Fun!
Reg

On Wed, 01 May 2019 08:31:39 -0700, you wrote:

Harvey,

That is another critical factor, one that I took into serious consideration. I used carbon comp resistors only as a temporary measure, simply to test the rest of the system, a "proof of concept" if you will. The ones I used were 5% accuracy, so way too little precision for the job. This was evidenced by the pair having a "calculated value" of 60K and an actual resistance measured at 58.8K, so still a ways off from the desired 60.4K (+/-1%).

Once you find a carbon comp resistor of the exact value, well, it's
still the exact value until it drifts.

It was simply not worth the time to try to come up with 2,3 or 4 carbon comps that theoretically could have been grouped to give the 60.4k that was specified. Much easier to just buy the right parts and fix it permanently and correctly.

Agreed. Worth the time and effort to do it right.

The repair also looks more professional as a major benefit. I have been buying Metal film resistors, whenever possible, since they do not cost that much more, they are more stable and more reliable. Thanks for your comment.

Glad to help. I use metal film for precision, and frankly, have not
replaced all that many carbon comp resistors. They generally get
replaced by film resistors since that's what I normally bought.

Harvey

My scope is 2465 DMS and it has DMM also - not an add-on.
Someone said that mine is 2465 CTS (but I think all CRT scopes can be
called that).
As per catalog Tektronix put out, I could not find my model either!
But there are many catalogs that are incomplete, I think.
If your scope works, the manual for 2465B should be the same.
Also, look at the back of your scope and find a silver tape that has
options printed on it with small holes punched out, if you have that option.
That is how mine has options 1, 9, 10 and GPIB port.
See if on the back is any other "model number".

I'm looking for the software that would communicate with my computer - does
anyone have the software and or manual for it?
Also, I have a port for P6407 - I also need as much help with that and
software that, I assume, it will need.

Tony

All,

I have a Trektronix 2465B that has the DMM option physically present.? Looking at the TekWki web page for the 2465B, I see photos that show this 'scope branded as "2465BVD".? My 'scope is branded as "2465B".

The DVM does not appear to have been an add-on.

Can anyone explain how a 2465B with the DMM option would not be branded as a 2465BDV?

Thanks

DaveD

Yes, that has always been my question. I had my 2465B calibrated a few years ago by another forum member and have relied on that to provide reasonably accurate relative measurement comparisons with all of my other (uncalibrated)? 'scopes, but seeing as it is all relative to the ultimate source of the standard instruments used, it's kind of a guess. I'm always reminded of the Latin phrase "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" which means, more or less, "who guards the guards".

Re standardizers, one only needs the one that matches the bandwidth of the 'scope being calibrated. IIRC, a -01 is sufficient for all 400 MHz and 500 MHz 'scopes; the -00 is for 250 MHz 'scopes and the -02 is for, basically, the 7104. TekWiki is your friend.

$77 for a standardizer is a really good deal, assuming it works (and maybe even if it doesn't word but can be repaired).

DaveD

And who calibrates the Calibrator ?

And so, on it goes ....

73, Dick, W1KSZ

With four 7000 series scopes in my lab, I've been patiently waiting for
a 067-0587-00,01, or 02 signal standardizer for about a year now and I
finally grabbed one today. They've been going for pretty big money (worth
more than the scope itself) but I managed to snag it for $77 (with
shipping) off of eBay.



My one concern of course is that it works and doesn't need some form of
rehabilitation.

I will soon find out.