Re: Replacing Electrolytics in a 465/465B
Barry,
Although I'm not interested in these PCBs per se, could I make a suggestion? Perhaps for international Tek fans you could put the design (schematic, layout, & gerbers) on github, dropbox, or something similar? That way people can use any of the many PCB fab companies (in China) to get it done for themselves. This makes it easier for you, but obviously you may lose control of the design going forward.
Cheers, Brian.
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Re: Substitutions for 465, 475, & 485 semiconductors
I'm well aware of the site. But I had not found a substitution list on it. All a search with google produced was quotations from manuals about checking by substitution. But I did find the Tek cross reference when I thought to provide the right synonym.
Thanks.
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Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I started working in a TV shop at 13, in 1965. One older tech was a fountain of practical knowledge. I wasn't old enough to open an account at the local parts house, so he would buy things for me so Ii didn't have to go through our boss and pay his markup. He bought me my first desoldering iron which was a professional version of that Radio Shack version. It was made by Endevco, and it was almost $40 which was a lot for a kid making a buck an hour after school. He was also the one who got me started on Ersin Multicore solder. I've never regretted paying a little extra for good solder, because there was very little waste.
We handed the resale of a wave solder machine for Lockheed Martin around 1990, along with other process equipment after they shut down a production line in one of the Orlando plants.
Microdyne was still using the same grade of paste solder they tarted with, even though the SMD parts were a lot smaller than the first they used. I had to fight with Manufacturing engineering to buy a type with smaller solder balls and a RMA flux. The fine pitch ICs (IE: MC68340) came out of the early ovens with unmelted solder balls under the ICs, and the 0402 passives were tombstoning. They had spent a wad on that Heller oven, but the quality hadn't changed. Once we had better solder, we could refine the reflow profiles. That eliminated over 95% of the reflow problems within a few months, as they continued to refine the profiles.
Did you build much equipment for your Amateur radio hobby? I went a different route, into broadcasting. Not many hams ever got to pump out 5MW EIRP of RF from a 1700 foot tower. :)
Michael A. Terrell
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-----Original Message----- From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Sent: Jul 26, 2018 11:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I have minimal experience with industrial soldering machines. I
was a kid back in 1970, and a ham, and getting a job working for
DEI was like being let loose in a candy shop. I did a ton of
odd jobs after the child labor bureau made me stop doing all of
their silver and gold plating. I was a sponge, and soaked up every
process or technique I was exposed to. Which was a lot. I did
etching, plating, drilling, KPR, soldering, helped set up the
one-off machines that made standoffs and rivets... moved safes,
carried trash, pushed a broom... but I digress.
Nobody that I am aware of was using reflow ovens back in 1970.
Everything I saw was either through-hole, or was simple stuff
that was hand soldered on one of the teflon based pcb materials.
But I can only talk to what DEI, Nems-Clarke, and Vitro were did,
and also what a PCB manufacture/build/assemble house I worked at
later was doing.
I just did a search, and the only 80/20 alloy I could find was a
Pb80/Sn20, which has a solidus temperature of 183C and a liquidus
temperature of 280C. That is as compared to 63/37 which is 183C.
Pb80/Sn20 would be wonderful for operations where you needed to
sculpt the solder, like a car fender, or the terminals on very high
voltage circuitry. It would also be useful for soldering terminals
that might be later soldered with 63/37, such as the internal connections
on a modular mixer.
-Chuck Harris
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Re: Compatibility between Series-5000 and TM500/TM5000 latches
Hi Colin,
The TM500 / TM5000 series went through AT LEAST five different mechanical variations of the pull tabs for reasons that I have never figured out. Each one was different enough that none of the parts were interchangeable between the variants.
I have never looked at the 5000 scope series plugins I have to determine how many different variations there were or which ones (if any) were TM500 / TM5000 compatible.
I would estimate the chances of finding the pull tab you are looking for to be quite poor.
Dennis Tillman W7PF
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-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Herbert via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 8:15 AM
Hi,
I know there have been enquiries as to whether the back-plane connections of
these two series are compatible, but that is not the question that I am
asking. I am wondering if the mechanical latching mechanism, with all of its
parts, is the same between these series. The manuals are not very clear.
Does anyone have any information on this? I am interested because I am
considering buying a parts-donor 5A22N to provide latch components for my FG
504.
TIA, Colin. -- Dennis Tillman W7PF TekScopes Moderator
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Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I have minimal experience with industrial soldering machines. I
was a kid back in 1970, and a ham, and getting a job working for
DEI was like being let loose in a candy shop. I did a ton of
odd jobs after the child labor bureau made me stop doing all of
their silver and gold plating. I was a sponge, and soaked up every
process or technique I was exposed to. Which was a lot. I did
etching, plating, drilling, KPR, soldering, helped set up the
one-off machines that made standoffs and rivets... moved safes,
carried trash, pushed a broom... but I digress.
Nobody that I am aware of was using reflow ovens back in 1970.
Everything I saw was either through-hole, or was simple stuff
that was hand soldered on one of the teflon based pcb materials.
But I can only talk to what DEI, Nems-Clarke, and Vitro were did,
and also what a PCB manufacture/build/assemble house I worked at
later was doing.
I just did a search, and the only 80/20 alloy I could find was a
Pb80/Sn20, which has a solidus temperature of 183C and a liquidus
temperature of 280C. That is as compared to 63/37 which is 183C.
Pb80/Sn20 would be wonderful for operations where you needed to
sculpt the solder, like a car fender, or the terminals on very high
voltage circuitry. It would also be useful for soldering terminals
that might be later soldered with 63/37, such as the internal connections
on a modular mixer.
-Chuck Harris
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
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I had some from a company around Orlando that was 80/20. I thought that was odd, but it was in the original containers. We also got tons of what the wave solder machines in the area skimmed as waste. We sold it to a company that made cheap solder to re-refine. Another source was from a company that made marine wiring harnesses. 30 years ago, there were a lot of companies in Orlando using tons of solder.
Did you do any work with reflow ovens?
I never used a wave solder machine, but we had three reflow ovens at Microdyne. Two older 'pizza oven' models, and a new Heller with computer controlled, multiple zone operation that stored the profile for every board that we built.
Michael A. Terrell
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Thanks for looking Jim. The 100, 200, 500 V marks are for a 100x probe. I'll open my 485 up this weekend and check the shaft length and see if I can detach the ring.
Bob
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Jim Olson Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 9:52 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tek 485 Sorry I don't have any that go up that high on the volts scale only to 50 I don't know if you could detach the clear ring from the knob part and reglue another knob onto it I have knobs in good shape with the black ring inside the front opening I probably have a shaft also just need the length have a bunch of different lengths. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Muth" <muthrb@...> To: [email protected] Cc: muthrb@... Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 6:30:03 PM Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tek 485 Hi Jim, No, I have not been successful yet. I've attached pictures of both knobs. In case the attachments don't go through, the clear flange on the Volts/ Division knobs are marked 5, 10, 20, 50 mV, then .1, .2, .5, 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, 500 V. the red cal knob button does have a black band and face. I have both red cal knobs. The phenolic is broken on both Volts/ Division knobs and one of the shafts for the red & black knob is missing. Bob -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Jim Olson Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2018 11:15 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tek 485 Did you find a knob for your scope? I have some for different 4** series scopes how is the clear flange marked and does it have a black ring around the cal red knob? Jim
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Sorry I don't have any that go up that high on the volts scale only to 50 I don't know if you could detach the clear ring from the knob part and reglue another knob onto it I have knobs in good shape with the black ring inside the front opening I probably have a shaft also just need the length have a bunch of different lengths.
Jim
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Muth" <muthrb@...> To: [email protected] Cc: muthrb@... Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 6:30:03 PM Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tek 485 Hi Jim, No, I have not been successful yet. I've attached pictures of both knobs. In case the attachments don't go through, the clear flange on the Volts/ Division knobs are marked 5, 10, 20, 50 mV, then .1, .2, .5, 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, 500 V. the red cal knob button does have a black band and face. I have both red cal knobs. The phenolic is broken on both Volts/ Division knobs and one of the shafts for the red & black knob is missing. Bob -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Jim Olson Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2018 11:15 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tek 485 Did you find a knob for your scope? I have some for different 4** series scopes how is the clear flange marked and does it have a black ring around the cal red knob? Jim
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Re: Substitutions for 465, 475, & 485 semiconductors
Reginald,
There is a site you can go to that is a repository for all things Tektronix they have manuals, booklets Tek publications and info and spec descriptions on lots of Tek hardware. It is named tekwiki here is the link for the site.
Jim O
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Hi Jim,
No, I have not been successful yet. I've attached pictures of both knobs. In case the attachments don't go through, the clear flange on the Volts/ Division knobs are marked 5, 10, 20, 50 mV, then .1, .2, .5, 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, 500 V. the red cal knob button does have a black band and face. I have both red cal knobs. The phenolic is broken on both Volts/ Division knobs and one of the shafts for the red & black knob is missing.
Bob
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Jim Olson Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2018 11:15 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tek 485 Did you find a knob for your scope? I have some for different 4** series scopes how is the clear flange marked and does it have a black ring around the cal red knob? Jim
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Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I had some from a company around Orlando that was 80/20. I thought that was odd, but it was in the original containers. We also got tons of what the wave solder machines in the area skimmed as waste. We sold it to a company that made cheap solder to re-refine. Another source was from a company that made marine wiring harnesses. 30 years ago, there were a lot of companies in Orlando using tons of solder.
Did you do any work with reflow ovens?
I never used a wave solder machine, but we had three reflow ovens at Microdyne. Two older 'pizza oven' models, and a new Heller with computer controlled, multiple zone operation that stored the profile for every board that we built.
Michael A. Terrell
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-----Original Message----- From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Sent: Jul 26, 2018 7:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I have on hand about 100 lbs of 63/37 solder bars
that came from the wave soldering machine of one of
your competitors at microdyne. I know it is what
they used because it came with the wave soldering
machine when it was scrapped.
Also, when I worked for DEI back in the '70s, they
used 63/37 for their reflow machines.
On boards that get solder plated, the alloy is somewhat
imprecise, and it is possible that the imprecision of
that plated alloy will have diluted the 63/37 solder
to make it have a higher melting point.
But as a former solder plater, I can assure you that
we tried very hard not to let the alloy shift much
because it made the reflow process fail.
-Chuck Harris
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
...
Also, keep in mind that the solder used for wave soldering has a higher melting
temperature than that used for hand soldering. If you don't get it all out on the
first try, refill the through hole with 63/37 solder and try again.
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Substitutions for 465, 475, & 485 semiconductors
Does anyone know of a published list? The former Tek repair guy that helped me revive my 465 had one, but wouldn't share it. I have no desire to get into the scope repair business, but I do want to be able to maintain the 485 I just got. The "selected from" is helpful, but it at least in the 465 there were house marked devices with no information.
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Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I have on hand about 100 lbs of 63/37 solder bars
that came from the wave soldering machine of one of
your competitors at microdyne. I know it is what
they used because it came with the wave soldering
machine when it was scrapped.
Also, when I worked for DEI back in the '70s, they
used 63/37 for their reflow machines.
On boards that get solder plated, the alloy is somewhat
imprecise, and it is possible that the imprecision of
that plated alloy will have diluted the 63/37 solder
to make it have a higher melting point.
But as a former solder plater, I can assure you that
we tried very hard not to let the alloy shift much
because it made the reflow process fail.
-Chuck Harris
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
...
Also, keep in mind that the solder used for wave soldering has a higher melting
temperature than that used for hand soldering. If you don't get it all out on the
first try, refill the through hole with 63/37 solder and try again.
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Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
Seems I also need to reassess my rule of changing the "To" line first when passing on an email. This was meant for my nephew but neverless Im sure others may have dug out their old RS iron to give it another try. Before the Hakko 470 I preferred and iron and plunger type sucker.
On this same subject, I see similar looking tips for the Hakko from cheaper similar style desoldering guns and wonder if they fit. Hakko tips are 20 - 50 bucks while the others a just a few dollars. Anyone tried them and can say how they fit?
Dave
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At 06:44 PM 7/26/2018, you wrote: Hey Mike, you know that iron I have with the red bulb. Ive used it but perhaps I need to try it again and reassess its crappyness UD
At 03:42 PM 7/23/2018, you wrote:
Thanks Fabio for the reply. I opened my PDF copy of the 464 manual and found the +15 volt end of the wire on the TRIG-VIEW switch but didn't know where it went from there. Did some careful perusing of the TRIG-GENERATOR SWEEP BOARD and found it at the bottom as you descibed it so then after I got my early 466 manual searched it out and found it also.
Appreciate the description of the circuit and also the chip diffs
i have started to put together the list of capacitors I am going to need and have pulled the 6 caps from the interface board for the 466 I did not have any real problem getting them off was a bit hesitant at first because of the horror stories on here from folks doing that. Some time back I picked up a real nice desoldering tool from Radio Shack it is a bulb sucker type with the bulb attached above the handle and to the tip with a tube so you can put the tip on the connection to be unsoldered and when soft just release the bulb cleans off and out all the solder.
Once I got the first one out it was easy to see how they were attached just put the tip hole down over the small pins first sucked out the solder so they were loose the worked on the big one wiggling the cap while heating took two three time to get it loose big hole filled up with solder on that one.
Have a question on two of the tant caps used in the power supply for one section of the output they are two 47uf 25v caps # 1712 & 1713 they are in a half wave rectified section and across the output for the +140v supply it seems that 25v is a bit low here? Any comments here?
Jim
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Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I repaired hundreds of Commodore 64 computers with one, along with a lot of test equipment and computer motherboards. You can do bad work with any desoldering tool. You need to practice on scrap PC boards, if you aren't familiar with the process. Also, keep in mind that the solder used for wave soldering has a higher melting temperature than that used for hand soldering. If you don't get it all out on the first try, refill the through hole with 63/37 solder and try again. Also, wait until the solder has melted all the way through the board. It helps to be able to see the other side of the board. In some cases, there is a heavy trace or copper pour on the other side so you need to use a different method. The end of the tip needs to be kept clean, and do not suck any flux into the hollow tip. It will dissolve some of the metal each time you do.
Michael A. Terrell
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-----Original Message----- From: Daveolla <grobbins@...>
Sent: Jul 26, 2018 7:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
Hey Mike, you know that iron I have with the red bulb. Ive used it
but perhaps I need to try it again and reassess its crappyness UD
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Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
Hey Mike, you know that iron I have with the red bulb. Ive used it but perhaps I need to try it again and reassess its crappyness UD
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Show quoted text
At 03:42 PM 7/23/2018, you wrote: Thanks Fabio for the reply. I opened my PDF copy of the 464 manual and found the +15 volt end of the wire on the TRIG-VIEW switch but didn't know where it went from there. Did some careful perusing of the TRIG-GENERATOR SWEEP BOARD and found it at the bottom as you descibed it so then after I got my early 466 manual searched it out and found it also.
Appreciate the description of the circuit and also the chip diffs
i have started to put together the list of capacitors I am going to need and have pulled the 6 caps from the interface board for the 466 I did not have any real problem getting them off was a bit hesitant at first because of the horror stories on here from folks doing that. Some time back I picked up a real nice desoldering tool from Radio Shack it is a bulb sucker type with the bulb attached above the handle and to the tip with a tube so you can put the tip on the connection to be unsoldered and when soft just release the bulb cleans off and out all the solder.
Once I got the first one out it was easy to see how they were attached just put the tip hole down over the small pins first sucked out the solder so they were loose the worked on the big one wiggling the cap while heating took two three time to get it loose big hole filled up with solder on that one.
Have a question on two of the tant caps used in the power supply for one section of the output they are two 47uf 25v caps # 1712 & 1713 they are in a half wave rectified section and across the output for the +140v supply it seems that 25v is a bit low here? Any comments here?
Jim
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Re: Tek 495P A54 Memory Board Option Switch Settings for v9.7 Firmware
... According to the service manual, SW 4
enables/disables power on SRQ, which doesn't seem relevant to
distinguishing a 495 from a 492AP. I have checked the function switches
multiple times with an ohmmeter and they seem to function as expected. I
am looking for some definitive guidance on setting these switches. The documentation is definitely incomplete and downright questionable in places (and that includes the notes on ko4bb.com from various people including myself). If you've found a combination that allows the unit to boot up and identify itself correctly as a 495P, you can consider the problem solved. -- john, KE5FX
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Re: When Posting Photos Please include the following...
I'm lazy in the same way most of the time. Also, I was uploading new photos to an existing folder I own on another .io group and had an amazing difficult time. The photos would load but not show up.? Took about 2 hours to get the hand full of photos loaded and sorted out.? What a waste of time! -Dave From: stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 7:22 AM Subject: Re: [TekScopes] When Posting Photos Please include the following... I'm lazy and most times can't be bothered to log into groups.io, let alone search for some photo. Unless you provide a freely available direct link I probably won't look at it. I realize that is no great loss to anyone, but just wanted to point out if you want your photos seen a direct link (ideally with no login) is in your own interest. There are many free services that host photos and let you share them via a URL, such as google photos. Tinypic also worked great but now they have annoying ads. For archival purposes the group photo space might be ideal, but for accessibility it's almost as bad as Yahoo was. ST On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 4:08 PM, Dennis Tillman W7PF <dennis@...> wrote: Just a reminder:
If you announce to TekScopes members that you posted photo(s) to a TekScopes
photo album please include a link to their exact location, the title of the
photo album, and if it was created some time prior to your post date, the
creation date of the album.
If you take a moment to these three things in your announcement it will save
everyone interested in looking at your photos the time it takes to hunt
through the photo albums.
Yes, I know you can order the albums by date created or by title. Don't
assume your photo album will be looked at immediately in which case it can
be quickly found by creation date. Consider the case where someone reads
your post years later and wants to see the photos.
Dennis Tillman W7PF
--
Dennis Tillman W7PF
TekScopes Moderator
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On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 07:20 AM, satbeginner wrote: So, my (probably) premature conclusion is: the FET I ordered should work fine.
It's capacity does not have any effect on the rise-and-fall times, it's own
turn-on time is way smaller than the applied pulse, and the ON-resistance is
lower, so dissipation should be lower. Yes, my gut feeling too : from the data I collected previously, basically the worse FET's have about twice the gate charge than desired. So even if the driver circuit had zero headroom to drive that extra charge, it means the rise time would double, so twice the power dissipation. But RDson is about 10 times lower, so 10 times less power dissipated... so overall the power dissipation would be, at least, 5 times less. Back of the envelope calculation of course, but sounds half reasonable to me... So yeah, basically pretty much an modern FET would work then... Still, it's always interesting to learn more about the design aspect of things, understand in enough detail what parameters need to be considered... measure things, quantify things... so we actually understand what we are doing/what's going in the circuit.. rather than just slap some FET, see the scope come back to life and call it done ^^ But... as interesting as it would be, I have other stuff to do in the lab at the moment. Would be nice to have an actual engineering familiar with this stuff, to tell us all about this. Where we are wrong, what we have failed to consider/take into account etc... boy I miss school time, was great to have a couple electronic teachers I could bombard every day with all my technical questions... Now I am on my own, making guesstimates on a forum ! LOL Still, keeps my brain going... Vincent Trouilliez
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Re: Compatibility between Series-5000 and TM500/TM5000 latches
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 09:50:56 -0700, you wrote: Actually I was asking about compatibility of 7000 series scope plug-in latches with 5000 series scope plug-ins.? ?Not TM500/5000 series modules.? ?But I can check for myself this evening when I get home from work.? Basically, no. TM500 looks identical to 5000 series scope plugin latches. I think they made 5000 series scopes with the same frames and decided to have the same board designs, but different signals and incompatible keying. Harvey Thanks.
Jim
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: "Colin Herbert via Groups.Io" <colingherbert@...> Date: 7/26/18 8:58 AM (GMT-08:00) To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Compatibility between Series-5000 and TM500/TM5000 latches
Jim,
I have a 7623A scope with about 13 plug-ins and a TM503 and TM504 with four plug-ins (and another to come). I can tell you that the latches for the 7000-series and TM500-series are NOT the same. I hope that clears up some of your queries.
Colin.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim Ford
Sent: 26 July 2018 16:39
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Compatibility between Series-5000 and TM500/TM5000 latches
Following with interest because I own a 5103N/D10 with two 5A15N and one 5B10N plug-in from which a previous owner removed the latching mechanisms.? Didn't want somebody removing the plug-ins, I guess.
Well, I would really like to have the latching mechanisms if possible.? Wondering if the mechanisms are the same on the 7000 series plug-ins I have.
Thanks.
Jim.
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Re: Compatibility between Series-5000 and TM500/TM5000 latches
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 08:39:28 -0700, you wrote: Following with interest because I own a 5103N/D10 with two 5A15N and one 5B10N plug-in from which a previous owner removed the latching mechanisms.? Didn't want somebody removing the plug-ins, I guess.
Well, I would really like to have the latching mechanisms if possible.? Wondering if the mechanisms are the same on the 7000 series plug-ins I have. From what I understand: TM500, two varieties of latching mechanisms, one (I think the earlier one) more prone to breaking than the later one. TM5000, one latch mechanism. I can 3D print these. 7000 series scopes, very different latch mechanism, I have some spare parts, but the tabs are only for a limited number of plugins, mostly 7A18, 7A26 and a few horizontal ones. Generally these don't break. 5000 series scopes, looked identical for the one style (pull tab pulls zig-zag bar which lifts latch) Harvey Thanks.
Jim
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: "Colin Herbert via Groups.Io" <colingherbert@...> Date: 7/26/18 8:14 AM (GMT-08:00) To: [email protected] Subject: [TekScopes] Compatibility between Series-5000 and TM500/TM5000 latches
Hi,
I know there have been enquiries as to whether the back-plane connections of these two series are compatible, but that is not the question that I am asking. I am wondering if the mechanical latching mechanism, with all of its parts, is the same between these series. The manuals are not very clear. Does anyone have any information on this? I am interested because I am considering buying a parts-donor 5A22N to provide latch components for my FG 504.
TIA, Colin.
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Brian Cockburn
Michael A. Terrell
Vince