Re: Stopping Lights from Strobing
According to an EU study, which assumed only 20% recycling, CFLs still
release less mercury than incandescent bulbs, if you account for the
mercury emissions by coal power plants which made up about 30% of
power generation at the time.
But luckily we have LED now, those CFLs really sucked.
I too have a cache of incandescent bulbs. Many stupid people like
myself bought a bunch when their sale was about to be restricted and
prices were already high. Unlikely I will ever use them, already you
see fixtures that aren't designed thermally for any more than 20W or
so.
ST
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On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 7:25 AM, musicamex <musicamex@...> wrote: I wonder how
much mercury based lighting actually is disposed of without release of the
Hg into the environment.. I do have a small cache of filament bulbs, mainly
for current limiters. I'm sure enough to outlast me.
Russ
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Re: Stopping Lights from Strobing
This might have been off topic, but nonetheless interesting reading. I
have been switching to LED lighting for about 4 years. My new lab and shops
are 90% LED. I am impressed with how much light the integral 20w
rectangular fixtures put out. The light is focused downward and lends
itself well to bench work. I also have about 20 solar LED lights around
the house outside, some motion sensitive, others just lighting walkways.
They are a win win over the old wired outdoor lighting. Every trip to the
US i bring back more, as the quality improves, and to use as practical
gifts here. In rural Mexico some old timers still use incandescent bulbs
all night long around their homes.. Energy usage consciousness is catching
on among the youth fortunately. And LED bulbs are dropping in price here
too but are still not an option for someone who earns less than $20usd a
day. Since the power grid here is government run, and residential power is
subsidized I'm hoping they finally "see the light" and subsidize LED costs
to make them affordable enough to become common.
Along with lasting longer and being less $ to run, they certainly have to
be better for the environment than mercury based lighting. I wonder how
much mercury based lighting actually is disposed of without release of the
Hg into the environment.. I do have a small cache of filament bulbs, mainly
for current limiters. I'm sure enough to outlast me.
Russ
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On Saturday, July 14, 2018, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote: On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 19:31:28 -0700, you wrote:
Many years ago when I was a 'lecky, I worked on a very expensive lathe light fitting that was using fluorescent tubes.
I was amazed that a lathe actually had a fluorescent fitting because of
strobe concerns but I found that the manufacturer "cheated" a bit for
safety reasons.
Fluorescent light fittings In most commercial use locations have power factor correction capacitors fitted directly across the connection
terminals otherwise the power metering will not be correct & there can be
circulating current problems.
The manufacturer of the lathe fluorescent light fitting used a dual fluorescent light fitting with two separate ballasts & only had a power
factor correction capacitor fitted to the one one fluorescent light.
The power factor correction capacitor caused a phase shift on the one
lamp compared to the other.
I actually ran the fitting with no power factor correction capacitors fitted at all & with the one fitted & when the one capacitor was fitted
then the strobe effect was not visible.
I suppose that it may be possible to phase shift some LED lamps as well
with a capacitor if they use an actual iron transformer for the power
supply so you could have dual LED lamps set up in a similar way.
This makes the assumption that the standard triac/scr "give me part of
a phase" is what's being used.
If we have a situation where the AC is rectified, then chopped at a
high frequency for PWM, then we're not dealing with line synchronized
anything.
For the backlights I use in several projects, the PWM is on the order
of one Khz or so. What I have to do there is to worry about the
frame/field rate interactions.
Harvey
Regards,
Brian.
--
Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement.
99 times out of 10 a blown fuse is not due to a bad fuse.....
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Thanks, EJP.
That does appear to be the cas e.? One email says jfordATieeeDOTorg, and one says jamesDOTfordATcoxDOTnet.? I unsubscribed form the latter and checked Special Notifications Only so I wouldn't completely leave the group.? Hopefully that works.
Jim
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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-------- Original message --------From: EJP <esmond.pitt@...> Date: 7/14/18 4:59 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Double messages Jim, check that you aren't subscribed twice, for example once by the auto-migration and once manually. Next pair of messages you get, check whether they're sent to the same email address. If not, login to groups.io with the unwanted one and unsubscribe. EJP
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Re: Stopping Lights from Strobing
On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 19:31:28 -0700, you wrote: Many years ago when I was a 'lecky, I worked on a very expensive lathe light fitting that was using fluorescent tubes.
I was amazed that a lathe actually had a fluorescent fitting because of strobe concerns but I found that the manufacturer "cheated" a bit for safety reasons.
Fluorescent light fittings In most commercial use locations have power factor correction capacitors fitted directly across the connection terminals otherwise the power metering will not be correct & there can be circulating current problems.
The manufacturer of the lathe fluorescent light fitting used a dual fluorescent light fitting with two separate ballasts & only had a power factor correction capacitor fitted to the one one fluorescent light.
The power factor correction capacitor caused a phase shift on the one lamp compared to the other.
I actually ran the fitting with no power factor correction capacitors fitted at all & with the one fitted & when the one capacitor was fitted then the strobe effect was not visible.
I suppose that it may be possible to phase shift some LED lamps as well with a capacitor if they use an actual iron transformer for the power supply so you could have dual LED lamps set up in a similar way. This makes the assumption that the standard triac/scr "give me part of a phase" is what's being used. If we have a situation where the AC is rectified, then chopped at a high frequency for PWM, then we're not dealing with line synchronized anything. For the backlights I use in several projects, the PWM is on the order of one Khz or so. What I have to do there is to worry about the frame/field rate interactions. Harvey
Regards,
Brian.
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Re: Stopping Lights from Strobing
LEDs don't flicker when fed with clean, filtered DC. The light fixture in my bedroom has three LED bulbs under the ceiling fan and they don't flicker under normal usage. Just before they fail, I have had some start to flash at irregular intervals. All of the LED lamps I've see tell you not to operate them base up, but the only sockets that are base down seem to be table lamps and some outside lamps. I first installed some puny 1.5W LED lamps at the gateposts for my driveway. They were still working when I replaced them with some 7 watt bulbs. In total, there have been LED lamps there for over 15 years without a failure but it is cool when they are on. I've had two failures in two years in my bedroom where they started to flash, then they died.
Michael A. Terrell
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-----Original Message----- From: brians@...
Sent: Jul 14, 2018 10:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [TekScopes] Stopping Lights from Strobing
Many years ago when I was a 'lecky, I worked on a very expensive lathe light fitting that was using fluorescent tubes.
I was amazed that a lathe actually had a fluorescent fitting because of strobe concerns but I found that the manufacturer "cheated" a bit for safety reasons.
Fluorescent light fittings In most commercial use locations have power factor correction capacitors fitted directly across the connection terminals otherwise the power metering will not be correct & there can be circulating current problems.
The manufacturer of the lathe fluorescent light fitting used a dual fluorescent light fitting with two separate ballasts & only had a power factor correction capacitor fitted to the one one fluorescent light.
The power factor correction capacitor caused a phase shift on the one lamp compared to the other.
I actually ran the fitting with no power factor correction capacitors fitted at all & with the one fitted & when the one capacitor was fitted then the strobe effect was not visible.
I suppose that it may be possible to phase shift some LED lamps as well with a capacitor if they use an actual iron transformer for the power supply so you could have dual LED lamps set up in a similar way.
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Stopping Lights from Strobing
Many years ago when I was a 'lecky, I worked on a very expensive lathe light fitting that was using fluorescent tubes.
I was amazed that a lathe actually had a fluorescent fitting because of strobe concerns but I found that the manufacturer "cheated" a bit for safety reasons.
Fluorescent light fittings In most commercial use locations have power factor correction capacitors fitted directly across the connection terminals otherwise the power metering will not be correct & there can be circulating current problems.
The manufacturer of the lathe fluorescent light fitting used a dual fluorescent light fitting with two separate ballasts & only had a power factor correction capacitor fitted to the one one fluorescent light.
The power factor correction capacitor caused a phase shift on the one lamp compared to the other.
I actually ran the fitting with no power factor correction capacitors fitted at all & with the one fitted & when the one capacitor was fitted then the strobe effect was not visible.
I suppose that it may be possible to phase shift some LED lamps as well with a capacitor if they use an actual iron transformer for the power supply so you could have dual LED lamps set up in a similar way.
Regards,
Brian.
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Re: OT: LED lamp bulbs at ridiculously low prices at (some) Costco stores
On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 13:13:42 -0700, you wrote: I have both LED and CF lamps here. I can see some strobing
from the CF but none from the LEDs. Perhaps they use a high
frequency. There are different types, for instance some cars have
LED brake and rear lamps. I can see strobing on some and not on
others.
Fluorescent lamps strobe. When I was a kid they gave me a
headache. I could see the strobing all the time. I was also aware
of the flicker on British TV. The worst was lamps at Niagra Falls
in Canada where the house current was 25Hz. Since fluorescents fire on every half cycle, the Niagra ones would have had a 50 Hz flicker. Many people can see that. British and other countries have a 100 Hz flicker, supposedly not visible. US and similar countries have a 120 Hz flicker, even harder to see. British TV had, IIRC, a 50 Hz frame rate, and I suspect a 100 Hz field rate, so you still had a flicker that could be seen out of the corner of your eye (the most sensitive part for movement, all rods...). I remember seeing that when I saw British TV in England. Resolution was lovely, but out of the corner of my eye, it flickered a bit. Harvey
On 7/14/2018 1:04 PM, Geoffrey Thomas wrote:
I've bought some cheap led lamps (1w) for use as night lights on
the landings, they actually provide useful normal levels but they
do "strobe". This is only apparent when you move your hand close
to them. I see blue and yellow flashes out of the corner of my
eye when i blink under certain types of fluorescent lighting.
Geoff.
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Re: OT: LED lamp bulbs at ridiculously low prices at (some) Costco stores
On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 15:47:47 -0400, you wrote: Ed,
(Sorry, careful searching for Ed¡¯s actual email address revealed nothing.)
I know someone who is very strongly opposed to LED lamps of all kinds (also to halogen lamps). She is certain that LED lamps are very, very bad for humans.
I have not investigated the situation, but I suspect that SOME LED lamps actually put out a chopped, non-continuos light. Do you know anything about this? It seems that the normal tubular fluorescent lamps we have used for many decades do in fact emit a pulsating light, and that some few people are actually do have a negative reaction to the light. The LED itself, looking at the actual part, puts out a monochromatic light (with the exception of the blue/violet/UV/white which is essentially UV exciting a phosphor). The on/off ratio of a pulsed LED is essentially the light modulation frequency. Some people *do* have a reaction to LED light, but the same reaction has to do with the frequency of the light flicker and not the source. In some people, it can trigger epileptic siesures. It has to do with the flicker frequency. You will find warnings on some video games for the same thing.
On a related topic: just how much mercury is in the compact fluorescent lamps that are apparently not on the market any more.
Enough......
In both these situations, I suspect that a heavy dose of alarmism based on some very poor science and the absence of relevant facts is in play.
Naaah...... Harvey Roy
Roy Morgan
k1lky68@... <mailto:k1lky68@...>
On Jun 25, 2018, at 12:11 AM, Ed Breya via Groups.Io <edbreya@... <mailto:edbreya@...>> wrote:
This is OT, but I just have to say I happened to stop by the Fremont Costco today, and stumbled upon some amazing deals on certain types of LED bulbs, like six-packs of PAR-xx/xxW equivalent spots for two dollars, and other stuff.
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Jim, check that you aren't subscribed twice, for example once by the auto-migration and once manually. Next pair of messages you get, check whether they're sent to the same email address. If not, login to groups.io with the unwanted one and unsubscribe.
EJP
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strobe effect on brakes (was: OT: LED lamp bulbs )
On 07/14/2018 03:13 PM, Richard Knoppow wrote: for instance some cars have LED brake and rear lamps. I can see strobing on some and not on others. Some car brake lights have a slow partial-dimming-strobe effect where the frequency increases as the braking force increases to signal that to others.
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Re: OT: LED lamp bulbs at ridiculously low prices at (some) Costco stores
I have a very short persistence of vision. Back in the early '70s, I was a Broadcast Engineer. I could see the single frames used to mark the location to splice in commercials on 16mm film. That was 1/24 of a second. Fluorescent lamps flash at 120Hz in the USA. They start to misfire as they age, which I could see before anyone that I worked with so I went home with a headache, every day until the lamps were replaced. I had similar problems with LED lamps. They appeared to run of rectified 60Hz with little or no filtering. It got so bad at work that I literally dragged a corporate VP out of his office and to my work area to demand that the bad lamps and ballasts be replaced, or I would file a complaint with OSHA because I was starting to get migraines at least once a week. One would barely end, before I had another. It took two electricians most of a day to replace all the defective items, but the headaches immediately went away. I also demanded and received a dual 8' Fluorescent lamp fixture mounted to my bench, to give me enough light to work on SMD circuit boards.
Michael A. Terrell
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-----Original Message----- From: Roy Morgan <k1lky68@...>
Sent: Jul 14, 2018 3:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] OT: LED lamp bulbs at ridiculously low prices at (some) Costco stores
Ed,
(Sorry, careful searching for Ed¡¯s actual email address revealed nothing.)
I know someone who is very strongly opposed to LED lamps of all kinds (also to halogen lamps). She is certain that LED lamps are very, very bad for humans.
I have not investigated the situation, but I suspect that SOME LED lamps actually put out a chopped, non-continuos light. Do you know anything about this? It seems that the normal tubular fluorescent lamps we have used for many decades do in fact emit a pulsating light, and that some few people are actually do have a negative reaction to the light.
On a related topic: just how much mercury is in the compact fluorescent lamps that are apparently not on the market any more.
In both these situations, I suspect that a heavy dose of alarmism based on some very poor science and the absence of relevant facts is in play.
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Re: Homemade tunnel diodes
But "sampler diodes" are not tunnel diodes?
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Re: OT: LED lamp bulbs at ridiculously low prices at (some) Costco stores
I have both LED and CF lamps here. I can see some strobing from the CF but none from the LEDs. Perhaps they use a high frequency. There are different types, for instance some cars have LED brake and rear lamps. I can see strobing on some and not on others.
Fluorescent lamps strobe. When I was a kid they gave me a headache. I could see the strobing all the time. I was also aware of the flicker on British TV. The worst was lamps at Niagra Falls in Canada where the house current was 25Hz.
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On 7/14/2018 1:04 PM, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: I've bought some cheap led lamps (1w) for use as night lights on the landings, they actually provide useful normal levels but they do "strobe". This is only apparent when you move your hand close to them. I see blue and yellow flashes out of the corner of my eye when i blink under certain types of fluorescent lighting.
Geoff.
--
Richard Knoppow
dickburk@...
WB6KBL
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Re: OT: LED lamp bulbs at ridiculously low prices at (some) Costco stores
I've bought some cheap led lamps (1w) for use as night lights on the landings, they actually provide useful normal levels but they do "strobe". This is only apparent when you move your hand close to them. I see blue and yellow flashes out of the corner of my eye when i blink under certain types of fluorescent lighting.
Geoff.
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Show quoted text
On 14/07/2018 20:47, Roy Morgan wrote: Ed,
(Sorry, careful searching for Ed¡¯s actual email address revealed nothing.)
I know someone who is very strongly opposed to LED lamps of all kinds (also to halogen lamps). She is certain that LED lamps are very, very bad for humans.
I have not investigated the situation, but I suspect that SOME LED lamps actually put out a chopped, non-continuos light. Do you know anything about this? It seems that the normal tubular fluorescent lamps we have used for many decades do in fact emit a pulsating light, and that some few people are actually do have a negative reaction to the light.
On a related topic: just how much mercury is in the compact fluorescent lamps that are apparently not on the market any more.
In both these situations, I suspect that a heavy dose of alarmism based on some very poor science and the absence of relevant facts is in play.
Roy
|
Re: OT: LED lamp bulbs at ridiculously low prices at (some) Costco stores
Ed,
(Sorry, careful searching for Ed¡¯s actual email address revealed nothing.)
I know someone who is very strongly opposed to LED lamps of all kinds (also to halogen lamps). She is certain that LED lamps are very, very bad for humans.
I have not investigated the situation, but I suspect that SOME LED lamps actually put out a chopped, non-continuos light. Do you know anything about this? It seems that the normal tubular fluorescent lamps we have used for many decades do in fact emit a pulsating light, and that some few people are actually do have a negative reaction to the light.
On a related topic: just how much mercury is in the compact fluorescent lamps that are apparently not on the market any more.
In both these situations, I suspect that a heavy dose of alarmism based on some very poor science and the absence of relevant facts is in play.
Roy
Roy Morgan
k1lky68@... <mailto:k1lky68@...>
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On Jun 25, 2018, at 12:11 AM, Ed Breya via Groups.Io <edbreya@... <mailto:edbreya@...>> wrote:
This is OT, but I just have to say I happened to stop by the Fremont Costco today, and stumbled upon some amazing deals on certain types of LED bulbs, like six-packs of PAR-xx/xxW equivalent spots for two dollars, and other stuff.
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No double messages here. I use reflected e-mail for the list.
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On 7/14/2018 11:15 AM, Dennis Tillman W7PF wrote: Hello James,
The list owner, me, has no idea either. But since no one else is reporting
this problem, or if they have it they haven't said anything, I would look
inward at your computer and/or your profile settings rather than suspect
this is something the list is doing wrong. That seems pretty obvious to me
that this is where the problem lies.
Dennis Tillman W7PF
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Roy
Morgan
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 8:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Double messages
Jim,
I have no idea, but if the list owner has not replied to you, I suggest an
email direct to him: (See links below)
Group Owner: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Roy Morgan
k1lky68@... <mailto:k1lky68@...>
On Jul 6, 2018, at 6:01 PM, Jim Ford <james.ford@... <mailto:james.ford@...>> wrote:
To whom it may concern, now that I can post to TekScopes, I get double
copies of every message. Very annoying! How do I get it to stop?
Thanks!
Jim
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
--
Richard Knoppow
dickburk@...
WB6KBL
|
Hello James,
The list owner, me, has no idea either. But since no one else is reporting
this problem, or if they have it they haven't said anything, I would look
inward at your computer and/or your profile settings rather than suspect
this is something the list is doing wrong. That seems pretty obvious to me
that this is where the problem lies.
Dennis Tillman W7PF
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-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Roy
Morgan
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 8:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Double messages
Jim,
I have no idea, but if the list owner has not replied to you, I suggest an
email direct to him: (See links below)
Group Owner: [email protected] <mailto: [email protected]> Roy Morgan
k1lky68@... <mailto:k1lky68@...>
On Jul 6, 2018, at 6:01 PM, Jim Ford <james.ford@... <mailto:james.ford@...>> wrote:
To whom it may concern, now that I can post to TekScopes, I get double
copies of every message. Very annoying! How do I get it to stop?
Thanks!
Jim
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-- Dennis Tillman W7PF TekScopes Moderator
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Hi to All, I was wondering if someone can give me some help in finding the problem on my SG5010 with error code 320, sine wave oscillator error. I would like to troubleshoot it and fix it. I would assume the problem would be on the A14 oscillator board. Does anyone have an idea of which part may have gone bad or which parts I should start to check for the problem. It was an intermittent problem, but know shows the error code continually and the scope does show a bad sign wave. Any help would be greatly appreciated in fixing this unit. Thanks in advance.... jeff
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2465 CTS scope with Delayed Sweep
I think I have a problem withthe delayed sweep on my 2465.
I get the INTENsified mode when I pull out the sweep knob,
I can adjust the position of the INTENsified area anywhere on the waveform.
When I move the sweep knob one click to the right, it is like I have two waveforms
and I can move one using the Ref or Delay pos knob,
but they are superimposed and the Trace Sep knob has zero effect.
I cannot separate the waveforms.
Any help is appreciated.
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It isn't the phone.? I'm using a Samsung Galaxy and not getting duplicate messages. Could be an ISP issue or mail client issue.?
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
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-------- Original message --------From: Artekmedia <manuals@...> Date: 7/14/18 12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Double messages My bad it was a glaxay droid not an Iphone ..still do you get double messages both places? On 7/14/2018 1:02 PM, Artekmedia wrote: Jim
I notice the signature shows you are using a Iphone for email.
If you read your group messages on a "real" computer. Do you still get
doubles? I see all kinds of anomalies on the wife's Iphone that I dont
see on a real Windoze computer or my droid
Dave
NR1DX
manuals@...
On 7/14/2018 11:03 AM, Roy Morgan wrote:
Jim,
I have no idea, but if the list owner has not replied to you, I
suggest an email direct to him: (See links below)
Group Owner: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> Roy Morgan
k1lky68@... <mailto:k1lky68@...>
On Jul 6, 2018, at 6:01 PM, Jim Ford <james.ford@...
<mailto:james.ford@...>> wrote:
To whom it may concern, now that I? can post to TekScopes, I get
double copies of every message.?? Very annoying!? How do I get it to
stop?
Thanks!
Jim
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-- Dave Manuals@... www.ArtekManuals.com
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Michael A. Terrell