开云体育

Hi Nick,

There is a list of vendors of Tek manuals at our web site. Try this URL:



If none of those guys can help, there is always eBay . . .

Stan
w7ni@...

nick weyland wrote:

What is the best way to get a service manual for
a 7104.

Thanks

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.

Hi Paul,

I have a real problem with the way Bill's and my forum works with my
computer. It takes forever to load and I just don't have the time to wait.
Bill says he can fix it as soon as he gets time to do it. In the mean time,
I have some info for you regarding your 454 nuvistors. See below:

msfix56@... wrote:

Hello All,

Please note that this is a copy of my post in the Tektronix Reference
materials forum with some comments removed as they would not make
sense here. If the bookmark is not in the bookmarks section here it
really should be added as they, (Stan Griffiths and Bill Den Beste)
have a wealth of good information available.

So here goes -

It was suggested that perhaps the nuvistors in the B channel were the
cause of the drift. This does seem to be the case. In an attempt to
prove that case I swapped the tubes out and the drift changed
channels. I have tested the nuvistors in the scope and several of
them test weak including the front end of the channel B preamp which
if you watch the tube test meter drifts up from about 3000 uMhos to
about 7600 uMhos before dropping off sporadically. The other tubes in
the scope vary from 10000 uMhos to 11500 uMhos. My question is that I
seem to be having a hard time finding the 154-0461-00 part number
tubes. According to the manual they cross over to an 8393

This is correct. 154-0461-00's are also known as 8393's.

and I have
found Tek part #157-0107-00 which also crosses over to the 8393. Is
there a significant difference in these two Tek part numbers?

Yes. The 157-0107-00 is an aged and checked 154-0461-00 (8393). It has been
aged for 100 hours, checked for microphonics and grid current.

Can
someone tell me what the uMho readout for the 8393???s should be for
this application.

I don't think the transconductance of the nuvistor is very critical in this
application. I notice 8393's are not checked for transconductance when they
are selected to become 157-0107-00's. I believe the randomly varying
transconductance you see is related to the drift you see. I think the aging
process causes the nuvistors to eventually stabilize.

I notice that Tek uses two part numbers for the
8393???s in the 454 two of them are "aged" while the others are not.
Will this make a significant difference in the scopes performance or
will it just drift for a while until the tubes get "set in their
ways" :^) Thanks for reading all this and for all your help.

Paul

Paul, I would just use some plain 8393's in the input circuit of the 454 and
check them for microphonics by jarring the instrument slightly and watching
the trace for noise. I think the cal procedure calls out a test for grid
current. Grid current shows up as a vertical trace shift while grounding and
ungrounding the vertical input at the most sensitive position of the vertical
attenuator switch.

Hope this helps.

Stan
w7ni@...

Hello All,

Please note that this is a copy of my post in the Tektronix Reference
materials forum with some comments removed as they would not make
sense here. If the bookmark is not in the bookmarks section here it
really should be added as they, (Stan Griffiths and Bill Den Beste)
have a wealth of good information available.

So here goes -

It was suggested that perhaps the nuvistors in the B channel were the
cause of the drift. This does seem to be the case. In an attempt to
prove that case I swapped the tubes out and the drift changed
channels. I have tested the nuvistors in the scope and several of
them test weak including the front end of the channel B preamp which
if you watch the tube test meter drifts up from about 3000 uMhos to
about 7600 uMhos before dropping off sporadically. The other tubes in
the scope vary from 10000 uMhos to 11500 uMhos. My question is that I
seem to be having a hard time finding the 154-0461-00 part number
tubes. According to the manual they cross over to an 8393 and I have
found Tek part #157-0107-00 which also crosses over to the 8393. Is
there a significant difference in these two Tek part numbers? Can
someone tell me what the uMho readout for the 8393?s should be for
this application. I notice that Tek uses two part numbers for the
8393?s in the 454 two of them are "aged" while the others are not.
Will this make a significant difference in the scopes performance or
will it just drift for a while until the tubes get "set in their
ways" :^) Thanks for reading all this and for all your help.

Paul

Hi Terry,

Comments inserted below:

Terry Brown wrote:

Stan, I removed and reseated all the Nuvistors I could find and also checked
transistors in the sockets to see if loose. That seems to have solved the
drifting issue. I'll let it cool down completely and retry later.

That may be all that is required to fix the drift.

Are the 454's very sensitive to movement...i.e., do the
transistors/Nuvistors and other parts move around with just normal carrying and
storing of the scopes?

No, not normally. But you have to remember all 454's are now at least 30+ years old
and things like nuvistor sockets and transistor sockets can get a little oxidized
after that much time. Sometimes all that is required to fix an intermittant socket
is to remove and reinstall a transistor or nuvistor a couple of times.

I also noticed that the leading edges of the calibrator square waves have a
slight upward/downward curve to them (even using a straight patch cord in place
of probes). Is that normal or does it indicate some need for recalibration?

You may looking a the calibrator signal in the "AC" postion of the vertical input
coupling switches. (These are the horizontal lever switches near the input BNC
connectors.) Try the "DC" position and see if it doesn't look a little better.
The calibrator will look a little slanted in the AC position.

Glad to help, Terry. Let me know if I guessed this one right . . .

Stan
w7ni@...

Thank you, again, for all your help and sharing of knowledge.
Terry

Hi Terry,

I have not had any luck with any superglues sticking to that white plastic which I
think is really nylon. I have only had luck with epoxy and then I used a fair
amount of it and filled in the areas around the set screw part to give it a lot of
extra strength. To get to it, you can remove the CRT still inside the CRT
shield. There is a procedure for doing this in the manual. Don't forget to
disconnect the CRT neck pins before removing the CRT. It really only takes about
10 minutes and you have unsolder a few wires . . . just remember where they went.

To help make sure the epoxy will stick, I would clean the area to be glued with a
cotton swab and alcohol. To bring the area of the pot to be glued to the top
where you can reach it, you can actually mechanically rotate the pot by by using a
pair of needle nosed pliers or a soldering aid to push on the front part of it
where the set screw is. In the event this attempt to glue it does not work, I
would suggest that you turn the pot to the detent position and leave it there.
Then at least that channel will be calibrated . . . it just won't have a
functioning variable control.

I think you can buy nuvistors from Deane Kidd <dektyr@...> or
503-625-7363. Deane will need the Tek part number of the nuvistor you are looking
for.

Look luck on getting this fixed and let me know how it works out for you.

Stan
w7ni@...

Terry Brown wrote:

Stan, I removed and reseated all the Nuvistors I could find and also checked
transistors in the sockets to see if loose. That seems to have solved the
drifting issue. I'll let it cool down completely and retry later.
Are the 454's very sensitive to movement...i.e., do the
transistors/Nuvistors and other parts move around with just normal carrying and
storing of the scopes?
I also noticed that the leading edges of the calibrator square waves have a
slight upward/downward curve to them (even using a straight patch cord in place
of probes). Is that normal or does it indicate some need for recalibration?
Thank you, again, for all your help and sharing of knowledge.
Terry

Stan or Patricia Griffiths wrote:

Thanks, Stan. I do see the plastic part you described and, yes, it is
cracked. Would any of the "superglues" work in place of expoxy? Any fairly
easy way to get to it?
I'll try reseating the Nuvistor for the other problem. If it's a bad one,
any ideas where they are commercially available. Thanks, again.
Terry

Stan or Patricia Griffiths wrote:

terry.brown6@... wrote:

Stan (or others), you have helped me with this scope just recently. I
picked up an original users manual which is great! But, my scope has
just started giving me trouble with Ch1. When I turn the unit on, and
even after an ample warmup period, the Ch1 trace doesn't show up. I
locate it with Beamfinder but can't get it stabilized on the screen.
When I can get it to position, it continues to drift vertically, both
up and down, and will not completely stabilize (even after 30 minutes
or more). That is with leaving the Volts/Div control in the same
position. Any ideas?
Also, I discovered the Ch2 Cal control has absolutely no effect. I
can't find a detent position either. I thought it might be a loose
knob but that wasn't the problem. What do you think? Thanks, much.

Terry

Hi Terry,

Here is an educated guess. I suspect you have two problems. The drift is
probably due to a bad nuvistor in the Ch 1. You might just try reseating it
in the socket.

The lack of detent in the Ch 2 Variable Volts/Division control could be due
to a broken shaft coupling. I can't remember if there are shaft couplings
here or not. This may be a real tough one to repair because it will be
buried under the CRT shield. I might have a part for this if you can
determine what you need and can get to it. If this turns out to be one of
those white plastic pots with a crack in the part with the set screw in it,
one way to fix it is to back the set screw out and epoxy the plastic. You
have to let it sit for a couple of days to make sure the epoxy is real hard,
then retighten the set screw.

Stan
w7ni@...

Yes, that is the correct spelling and it loads for me.

Stan
w7ni@...

Mark Gurries wrote:

Stan (or others), you have helped me with this scope just recently. I
picked up an original users manual which is great! But, my scope has
just started giving me trouble with Ch1. When I turn the unit on, and
even after an ample warmup period, the Ch1 trace doesn't show up. I
locate it with Beamfinder but can't get it stabilized on the screen.
When I can get it to position, it continues to drift vertically, both
up and down, and will not completely stabilize (even after 30 minutes
or more). That is with leaving the Volts/Div control in the same
position. Any ideas?
Also, I discovered the Ch2 Cal control has absolutely no effect. I
can't find a detent position either. I thought it might be a loose
knob but that wasn't the problem. What do you think? Thanks, much.

Terry

Check out the list on my web site at <www.reprise.com>

I am sorry. I do not believe this is your problem. It looks like a lot
of differnt website I cannot all of a sudden access today. Some internet
problem. I try again tommarrow.


Best Regards,

Mark Gurries

---------------------------------------------------------
Promotor of the DCC Standard for Model trains.
Model Railroad Club and NMRA DCC presentations are at:

--------------------------------------------------------
Audio Enthusiast (Love SAE equipment)


----------------------------------------------------------

Check out the list on my web site at <www.reprise.com>

Is this correct spelling. I fails to load for me. I tried it several
time even cutting and pasting it directly from the email.


Best Regards,

Mark Gurries

---------------------------------------------------------
Promotor of the DCC Standard for Model trains.
Model Railroad Club and NMRA DCC presentations are at:

--------------------------------------------------------
Audio Enthusiast (Love SAE equipment)


----------------------------------------------------------

I finally got tired of tripping over an R7704 hulk I had
laying around. I decided to strip it down, and see if I
could find homes for the various parts.

If you have an R7704 (and I suspect 7704, but not 7704A)
and need some parts let me know. If I have it, I'll send
it to you for the cost of postage.

The unit didn't work well enough to test the CRT, but the
filament is good. Also, the HV supply appears to work; as
I was getting some arcing when I disconnected it after applying
power to see if I could get a trace on the CRT.

I did not save any of the metal frame except for the front
panel.

73

- Mark N1VQW

Michael Dunn wrote:

At 12:27 PM -0800 2001/3/06, Stan or Patricia Griffiths wrote:

Remember, don't handle the sampling diodes with your fingers. Grease from
you fingers will contaminate them and attempts to clean them with alchohol
have been only marginally successful. Also, don't chip the black paint they
are painted with since this will allow light to reach the junction and that
ruins them also. I don't know the exact nature of the failure of sampling
diodes due to exposure to light but I understand it is permanent. Many
sampling diode problems are related to improper diode handling techniques.
When a technician first hears he can't handle them with his fingers, he uses
his needle nosed pliers and chips the paint . . . then he realizes what those
special plastic tweezers that Tek used to ship with new diode sets are for .

Wow. I had no idea they were so fragile. I guess LEDs evolved
out of this technology...???

Not only are they fragile when handling them, they won't take much applied voltage
either. 1 volt is about the maximum size signal you apply to a sampling scope
before you exceed the dynamic range of the diodes. At about 5 volts, you destroy
them! Almost every scope has a "sampling diode destroyer" built right into the
front panel. It is called the "calibrator".

The second (vertically oriented) connector is for feeding digital information
to the 6R1 or 6R1A Digital Readout unit when the 3S76 is used in a 567

Cool. NOT on-screen readout I assume?! Nixies?

Yep, nixies. Both in the 6R1 and the 230. I have these instruments in my
collection and someday I will get around to restoring them, I hope.

Thanks for all the info Stan.

md

You are most welcome. It's my favorite subject . . . old Tek stuff.

Stan
w7ni@...

In a message dated 03/07/2001 12:30:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mdunn@... writes:

I don't know the exact nature of the failure of sampling
>diodes due to exposure to light but I understand it is permanent. Many
>sampling diode problems are related to improper diode handling techniques.
>When a technician first hears he can't handle them with his fingers, he
uses
>his needle nosed pliers and chips the paint . . . then he realizes what
those
>special plastic tweezers that Tek used to ship with new diode sets are

for .

Wow. I had no idea they were so fragile. I guess LEDs evolved
out of this technology...???

Where I was working in the mid 60s we had some of the first GE plastic
transistors. They were packaged in natural colored epoxy (translucent) and
were released as engineering samples before anyone realized that they were
light sensitive.

Later they came out with a silicon controlled switch in a glass package,
calling it a LASCS. I hooked one up to a battery and bulb and had an
electric lamp you could light with a match. By leaving a connection loose,
you could blow it out. Neat!

I wonder how the problem with the diodes could be non-reversable by
repainting them though (if the paint was opaque to IR).

Mike Csontos

At 12:27 PM -0800 2001/3/06, Stan or Patricia Griffiths wrote:

Remember, don't handle the sampling diodes with your fingers. Grease from
you fingers will contaminate them and attempts to clean them with alchohol
have been only marginally successful. Also, don't chip the black paint they
are painted with since this will allow light to reach the junction and that
ruins them also. I don't know the exact nature of the failure of sampling
diodes due to exposure to light but I understand it is permanent. Many
sampling diode problems are related to improper diode handling techniques.
When a technician first hears he can't handle them with his fingers, he uses
his needle nosed pliers and chips the paint . . . then he realizes what those
special plastic tweezers that Tek used to ship with new diode sets are for .

Wow. I had no idea they were so fragile. I guess LEDs evolved out of this technology...???

The second (vertically oriented) connector is for feeding digital information
to the 6R1 or 6R1A Digital Readout unit when the 3S76 is used in a 567

Cool. NOT on-screen readout I assume?! Nixies?

Thanks for all the info Stan.

md

Hi Michael,

I have made a few comments below:

Michael Dunn wrote:

Geez, somehow I've ended up with three 1GHz sampling plug-ins.

The 1S1 is semi-working after my restoration attempt. I don't
think it's fully happy with my Schottky GaAs subs...

I haven't ever tried this so you could be right . . .

Newly acquired is a 3S76 (2-chan!). Does anyone have a manual to
sell or partly copy?

Check out the list on my web site at <www.reprise.com>

Unfortunately, I think it needs a companion
3T77 to operate.

The 3T77 is one timebase that will work with the 3S76. You are right that
there MUST be a sampling timebase to operate with it. Others that will work
with the 3S76 are 3T77A, 3T4, 3T2, and maybe 3T5 or 3T6 (I have never tired
these with a 3S76 but I know of no incompatibility).

Otherwise it's in good shape. Maybe I'll harvest
some GaAs diodes from it!

I think the GaAs sampling diodes used in the 3S76 are the same as those used
in a 4S1 but I can't remember for sure. I would have to check manuals to be
sure. I know the ones in the 1S1 have different part numbers but maybe you
could make the 3S76 diodes work in a 1S1. That is another good idea worth
exploring.

Remember, don't handle the sampling diodes with your fingers. Grease from
you fingers will contaminate them and attempts to clean them with alchohol
have been only marginally successful. Also, don't chip the black paint they
are painted with since this will allow light to reach the junction and that
ruins them also. I don't know the exact nature of the failure of sampling
diodes due to exposure to light but I understand it is permanent. Many
sampling diode problems are related to improper diode handling techniques.
When a technician first hears he can't handle them with his fingers, he uses
his needle nosed pliers and chips the paint . . . then he realizes what those
special plastic tweezers that Tek used to ship with new diode sets are for .
. .

It has TWO connectors on the rear-panel in
a "T" layout, whereas the scope bay just has one. Does this require
a special mainframe, or is the second connector for testing or
something?

The second (vertically oriented) connector is for feeding digital information
to the 6R1 or 6R1A Digital Readout unit when the 3S76 is used in a 567
mainframe. It may also work to feed readout information to a 230 when used
in a 568 mainframe, but I have never tried that combination before. It
connects to nothing when used in a non-readout scope like a 561A or 564.

Or, is there a special cable or board that connects it to
the 3t77?

No. It doesn't connect to the 3T77. It connects to a 6R1, 6R1A, or maybe a
230 or nothing at all.

Also new -- a 7S14! A real beauty. Two channel, with timebase.
And..... It works :-) Mostly anyway. There's a bit of lumpy noise
in one trace, and the buttons are all pretty sticky. So, any
recommendations for cleaning and lubricating those 7000-series
buttons? Oh, I wouldn't mind a manual for this one either. Guess
it's time to build me some crude 50:1 or 100:1 passive probes! Oh,
the delayed timebase ring is also missing. I've seen a picture of
this - a rare example of really bad design from Tek as far as I can
see. The pointer for the delayed setting is on a ring just like the
main pointer, but smaller diameter. The 2 sweep knobs are normal
concentric ones, and said ring is attached to the "upper" knob by a
couple of fragile looking plastic ribs that travel down to it down
the sides of the main knob. Seems to me that the first time you
turned the MAIN knob a bit too violently, your fingers would tear off
those ribs!

I just haven't ever had a chance to spend any time with a 5S14 so I don't
know didley about it.

Michael Dunn
(the original ;-)

p.s., TekScopes continues to grow well. We have over 60 members now.
Soon it will be my most populous group. We should throw a party or
something.

I hope this helps some, Mike.

Stan
w7ni@...

I do have a the rear apron for a 2235 (actually, all from that series
seem to fit, 2215, 2235, etc.) and can swap for other parts, the blue
paint I got a while back from Tek for an astronomical price, and it
came in a bomb-proof container, shipped as "hazardous materials". I
don't recommend that route. However....all is not lost.

The paint comes in a can marked "Omni-Pak", and is identified as L61
Opex lacquer, L99XXL42, Tek Blue. it also says, Portland Commercial
#4383, and To Re-order, call (503) 249-0222. Try that! Should be a
LOT simpler.

We have loaded a huge number of Tek parts on line in the last month,
semis, pots, CRT's, and cross-ref data where available to our site.
Have a look here:


have a look if you have time.
regards,
walter

Geez, somehow I've ended up with three 1GHz sampling plug-ins.

The 1S1 is semi-working after my restoration attempt. I don't think it's fully happy with my Schottky GaAs subs...

Newly acquired is a 3S76 (2-chan!). Does anyone have a manual to sell or partly copy? Unfortunately, I think it needs a companion 3T77 to operate. Otherwise it's in good shape. Maybe I'll harvest some GaAs diodes from it! It has TWO connectors on the rear-panel in a "T" layout, whereas the scope bay just has one. Does this require a special mainframe, or is the second connector for testing or something? Or, is there a special cable or board that connects it to the 3t77?

Also new -- a 7S14! A real beauty. Two channel, with timebase. And..... It works :-) Mostly anyway. There's a bit of lumpy noise in one trace, and the buttons are all pretty sticky. So, any recommendations for cleaning and lubricating those 7000-series buttons? Oh, I wouldn't mind a manual for this one either. Guess it's time to build me some crude 50:1 or 100:1 passive probes! Oh, the delayed timebase ring is also missing. I've seen a picture of this - a rare example of really bad design from Tek as far as I can see. The pointer for the delayed setting is on a ring just like the main pointer, but smaller diameter. The 2 sweep knobs are normal concentric ones, and said ring is attached to the "upper" knob by a couple of fragile looking plastic ribs that travel down to it down the sides of the main knob. Seems to me that the first time you turned the MAIN knob a bit too violently, your fingers would tear off those ribs!

Michael Dunn
(the original ;-)


p.s., TekScopes continues to grow well. We have over 60 members now. Soon it will be my most populous group. We should throw a party or something.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Dunn | Surround Sound Decoder & Stereo Enhancer
Cantares | Self-Amplified Speakers, Test Equipment
74 George St. | Ambisonic Surround Sound CDs and Recording
Waterloo, Ont. | (519) 744-9395 (fax: 744-7129)
N2J 1K7 | mdunn@...
Canada |
-----------------------------------------------------------------