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Hi Dean,

I think the two color DVST came later (post 1976-77). When I first saw the
4081, it was green on green, as were the Battlestar Galactica shots (sorry,
don't have either the pilot movie or the series on tape to see). I can't
confirm which later Tek terminal models had the two color feature. I believe
they retrofited the color write-through to the 4081 workstation, but don't
remember if it become a 4082 or some such other product. A catalog from that
period should provide the answer. Either way, the stored image was always
green.

The write-through feature (mono or two color) was not present on the
older/more common DVST (direct view storage) displays as used on the 4051
desktop computer, or the 4010, 4012 et al (getty fuzzy on numbers again...)
dumb graphics terminals. With those you had to manually erase the screen at
some point--sort of like an etch-a-sketch. Or you couldn't see anything new
that was written as the screen filled up. Erase could happen under software
control also. The write-through enhancement answered the need to provide an
animation capability. Write-through with color was a further development; I
believe to provide better contrast between stored and non-stored images. I
don't know too much about that technology. I have the Pete Keller CRT
history book--I will see if mention is made of that technology in there. I
would assume it's discussed, though I haven't read the book entirely yet.

I was always fascinated by watching the DVST write. Modern high info content
displays are so boring by comparison--except perhaps color plasma. Of
course, I prefer vacuum tubes and steam engines also.

Speaking of display technologies for Wilsonville applications....

By around 1980, everything from Wilsonville seemed to be going to 19"
diagonals (CAD graphics). I remember the saying was in Display Research
(part of Tek Labs) that "Wilsonville wasn't interested in any new display
technology that couldn't be expanded to 19". I worked on the color shutter,
which wasn't so valuable on the bigger screens but was particularly suited to
small area, high resolution applications. It was a successful technology as
applied to the color TDS series digital scopes, some of which are still in
production. In the early 80's, a 1240 style logic analyzer was to use the
limited color version (red/green/yellow), but when it wasn't quite ready, the
product group had commissioned a clever two color CRT instead. The shutter
was also adapted to 3D displays, which spun out of Tek "kinda", but I don't
know much about that.

Matrix EL was another Tek developed display technology which would eventually
stretch to 19", though from Planar Systems years after we split off from Tek.
As far as I know, we are the only company to produce EL panels that large
(for DEC terminals, who sold them principally to the financial market, but at
a markup so large that volume never built up). That size was unusual
however, as our volume has, and remains, with panels smaller than 10.4"
diagonal.

Electon beam addressed EL (an "EL CRT") was also promising for it's high
resolution, but never made it to commercial application as far as I know. My
recollection was it never made it past 5" diagonal prior to my departure from
Tek in '83. I also helped complete a summer student's fascinating
"LED-o-scope" project, which involved a spinning mirror with a vertical array
of yellow LEDs. The LEDs scrolled out the image one vertical line at a time
as the mirror rotated. I believe there was also an additional short column of
red and green LEDs to show limited color capability. Definitely wasn't
scaleable to 19", but was a fun 6" (?) demo.

The CRT light valve (electron beam addressed LCD) was also an interesting Tek
Labs technology being pursued while I was there (at that time, monochrome).
Don't know where this went, but think of any LCD projector today and you'll
get the idea (though the latter use matrix LCDs, not electron beam addressed).

In the end, Wilsonville moved away from DVST to raster scan (as memory prices
tumbled), and so they stayed until the end.

Wups. Rambled once again.

Don

PS: I've enjoy your postings Dean. All very interesting!

I believe the manufacturer of the 4 pin plug Dean refers to is LEMO in
Switzerland. Beautifully machined metal parts (reminds me of a fine watch)
and gold contact pins. Pulling on the outer shell activated the latching
prongs. When Planar split off from Tek, I designed them into our flat panel
burn-in racks as the panel bulk drive connector. Expensive connector, but
very reliable. Another super example of why I was so wowed by the Tek
engineering stock. Couldn't find anything like that at any hobby electronics
store!

From: deanhuster [mailto:dhuster@...]

Don, I remember the little thrusters and dust kick-up. I thought it
was the 4054 that had the write-thru and didn't remember about the
4081 (glad to finally get that model number!). The write-thru was
orange as I recall.

The tape drives were the DC300's as I recall.

The plotter was likely a 4662 (8.5" x 11") with electrostatic hold-
down with RS-232 or GPIB interface. The 4663 I think was another
plotter in a larger format (11" x 17").

I think there were two versions, with the 4052/4
version accounting for the increased speed and
taking advantage of non-store which IIRC did not
exist on the 4051. Definitely no orange write-thru.
I used one for several years. The LANDER I played
with erased the screen between views.
You're right about the plotters. 4662 and 4663.
Somebody was looking
for an interface a while back; they must have meant
software, because it was just RS-232 or GPIB. If you
can spit ASCII, you can talk to a 466x. Just have
to know what to say. Which I don't, sorry. Anybody
got a manual for whoever that was?

Regards,
Dave Wise

Just off the subject of the compatability of 5000 vs. TM500 plug-ins,
I can't remember if I mentioned my modification of a 5CT1N curve
tracer to work in a TM500 power module. After careful research and a
little design work, I made just such a beast, good for those who
don't have a 7K or 5K mainframe that can accept a 5CT1N or 7CT1N.

I added the necessary circuits on a perfboard mounted above the main
circuit board to provide the necessary supplies normally provided by
the 5K mainframe and to add the necessary output buffers to give a
decent 0.1v/div sensitivity for the attached scope. A 4-pin front
panel connector (I'm getting old and forgot the manufacturer -- the
same connector as used on the DM501 temperature/voltage probe)
provided the output for the scope. I replaced the neon lamps with
LEDs.

And if anyone has the real need to do such a modification (WHAT!!??!
SCREW UP A PRODUCT MADE BY TEKTRONIX??!!?), I think I still have all
the documentation needed to accomplish such a feat. Maybe I need to
start a Web site for all this weird junk I have floating around
that's useless except for just a few people.

Tek could have easily modified the layout for a 5CT1N to do just
that, but it's possible that they didn't because either they didn't
think of it or it would have cut into the sales of their other
semiconductor curve tracers. Same category as the 2-hole portable 7K
service scope.

Dean

The TM500 and 5000 plug-ins are compatible only in their mechanical
housing. The card keys will prevent you from swapping the plug-ins.
5000 plugins are fully dependent upon the mainframe for their
regulated power. Most of the power supply regulation is within a
TM500 plug-in, only the raw dc, main filter caps and pass transistors
residing in the "power module".

Only the TM504 and TM506 had a high-power compartment. The only
reason for the high-power compartment was for the power supplies so
that you could get the full 1a from them, e.g., PS503A. I've not
seen any other plug-ins, including the LA501/WR501, that required
that compartment.

Only the TM515 and TM506 had the cooling fans (I think all the
TM5000's do) -- the TM506 just because it had lots of compartments
and the TM515 because it had no other ventilation.

The DMMs for the TM500? Of course! The DM501 was one of the most
accurate DMMs available anywhere (including Fluke or hp) for the
price with ±0.1% accuracy on dc and fantastic frequency response on
ac. The DM501A increased this accuracy to ±0.05%. Tek also had
better THD analysis capability than any other manufacturer with the
AA501/SG505 and the FG504 has never been surpassed in frequency
range. A lot of folks, including ultraTeklovers, considered the
TM500 series to be lousy stuff. I thought it was some of the finest
general purpose test equipment made and you sure could pack a lot of
power into a small package on your bench.

The TM515 was perfect for a travelling oscilloscope cal package,
which is why I had one in the Oklahoma City Service Center ... doing
on-site contract calibration for 3M in Weatherford. I would still
have preferred a TM506 for those jobs since my package consisted of a
DM501, PG506, TG501, SG502, SG503 and SG504.

By the way, my TM515 power module was modified. From the factory,
the power switch is a rocker switch on the rear, very inconvenient
when the package is being used on the bench. I used the power switch
actuation rod from (I think) a 455, 465M or something and drilled a
hole in the front bezel just above where the top of the plug-ins
installed, ran it back between the plastic outer cover and metal
inner cover to the rear where it came out and actuated a replacement
switch from a 7000 series. Worked great.

Dean

Don, I remember the little thrusters and dust kick-up. I thought it
was the 4054 that had the write-thru and didn't remember about the
4081 (glad to finally get that model number!). The write-thru was
orange as I recall.

The tape drives were the DC300's as I recall.

The plotter was likely a 4662 (8.5" x 11") with electrostatic hold-
down with RS-232 or GPIB interface. The 4663 I think was another
plotter in a larger format (11" x 17").

Dean

The main reason tek made the low bandwidth 5100 series (also
identifed as D10/D11/D12, etc.) was to service the
biomedical/research community, that needed high sensitivity and low
speed, and often had small budgets. the storage units sold
especially well into that market, and are still in very high demand
today, incredibly. The big CRT is also a plus for many users,
although I think the over-all product quality is not as good as the
7K series.

the slow frames also worked great for audio (don't forget, HP had
scopes like the 120 that were only 500KHz) and could be configured
with some pretty interesting differential plug ins. They had no fans
(although it certainly would have helped cool the super hot
deflection stages), and were thus favored for audio wiork, as they
were quiet. The scopes are really made from the modular OEM display
and a reconfigured TM503 cage to produce a scope. what is really
puzzling is why tek ever made the 5400 series, high speed with on
screen display. It clearly robbed sales from the 7603. It would
probably have been better off with a less costly 7603 version.

NO, the TM500/5000 plug ins DO NOT work in the frames, but may fit by
accident if the lock outs are missing from the scope's connectors.
the test cables are also NOT interchangeable. The 5100 and 5400's
cannot share plug ins universally. the high speed plug ins
(5x3n/5x4n) fit ONLY the high speed frames, power supplies are
different. The frame standardizer fits ONLY the 5400, so it is hard
to set the low speed plug ins and frames to a universally swappable
setting.

I agree that the TM503/504's sell best because of portability, and
often people have only a few plug ins anyway. The TM506 is quite
massive, and very heavy, so it's not an ideal bench instrument, it's
really meant to be a rack thing.

all for now,
walter

I am also a newcomer to the community. I bought my first TEK in september.
I needed a differential amplifier for triboelectric cable noise measurements
and an oscilloscope for it.
Budget was tight and the system had to be "portable". Before buying I did a
quite extensive research about the TM500 series and am now owner of a TM503
mainframe with an AM502 differential amplifier plug-in and a 10 MHz, 2
channel SC503 oscilloscope plug-in. All the components are in mint condition
and I am very happy with my choice. I know that many of you would have
chosen the 7A22 differential amplifier with a 7K mainframe for the job but
the dimensions and weight of the 7K Series made me desist from that thought.
The specifications of the AM502 are apparently very similar.

Regarding the price differences you mention, I have compared prices on
e-bay www.vaxxine.com/phil/scopes/plugin$.htm and several shops and cannot
share your perception about the TM506. There will always be bargains but
generally the condition and the demand of a unit determines its price. I
could be that the demand for the smaller power supply mainframes is because
people like me need to do a specific job with this equipment rather than
putting together as many instruments as possible in one frame.

I learned that the TM500 series includes oscilloscope plugins up to 80 MHz
(SC504). For ultimate portability there exists the TM515, a hardcase power
supply mainframe. Some have high power compartments and forced air cooling.

Some of the plugins make less sense then others nowadays (i.e. multimeters,
etc.) unless you really need an all-in-one solution for field work.

Here in Europe it is not easy to find good and cheap plugins for this series
and I get water in my mouth when I see the e-bay auctions in the US. Thanks
for any hints. Perhaps the european members or people shipping overseas can
give good advise?

Another thing: there is the TM5000 series, not to be confused with the 5000
series oscilloscopes with their plugins. The difference between the TM500
and TM5000is the GPIB (IEEE 488.1 - 1987) compatibility. TM5000 series
frames accept TM 500 and/or TM5000 series plug-ins.

Matthias Urban
(a german in Spain)


-----Urspr???ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Lynn Lewis" <mrzuzu@...>
An: "TekScopes@yahoogroups. com" <TekScopes@...>
Gesendet: viernes, 11 de enero de 2002 0:13
Betreff: [TekScopes] 2 dumb questions

I never owned anything made by Tektronix in my life until December. Now I
have
6 scopes and a bushel of plugins. I have two questions, the answers to

which

are probably obvious to you guys but not to me.

1. Why are people paying from $120 to over $200 for TM503's and TM504's

but

are paying less than $100 for TM506's (of which I got one for $75+S&H)?

2. Will the modules that go into a TM5-whatever also work in a 5000

Series

oscilloscope? If not, then why is the 5000 series so popular? I can't
figure
any other reason anyone would want a 2MHz or 5MHz scope.



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Hi Lynn,

Comments below:

Lynn Lewis wrote:

I never owned anything made by Tektronix in my life until December. Now I
have
6 scopes and a bushel of plugins. I have two questions, the answers to which
are probably obvious to you guys but not to me.

1. Why are people paying from $120 to over $200 for TM503's and TM504's but
are paying less than $100 for TM506's (of which I got one for $75+S&H)?

I don't even have a good guess on this one. I'm with you. I think the best buy
seems to be TM506's if the prices you quoted are accurate.

2. Will the modules that go into a TM5-whatever also work in a 5000 Series
oscilloscope?

No

If not, then why is the 5000 series so popular?

I guess I don't think they are really that "popular". By the way, there is also
a 5400 series that is good for 50 MHz and those are considered by some to be
part of the "5000 series".

I can't
figure
any other reason anyone would want a 2MHz or 5MHz scope.

Well, maybe they are working in audio and need the sensitivity that some of the
5000 series plugin provide . . .

Stan
w7ni@...

I wish I could help with the power supply problem. I bought a 7704 that
works
great and a 7704A (from Ron Kovac) that has some problems. I know the HV
circuit works, however, because the readouts show up. I'm trying to acquire
a
service manual now. Maybe after I get the book and become familiar, I can
help
more.

My guess is that the 503's and 504's are more portable. I have two 503's
and one 5006 (506 on steroids!!). I don't think the 5xx plug-ins fit the
5000 series, but I may be wrong.
I understand that the 5000 series had reliability problems. But then I
find problems in the 7000 series also.
Still trying to fix the 7704A power supply.

73, Dick, W1KSZ

I never owned anything made by Tektronix in my life until December. Now I
have
6 scopes and a bushel of plugins. I have two questions, the answers to which
are probably obvious to you guys but not to me.

1. Why are people paying from $120 to over $200 for TM503's and TM504's but
are paying less than $100 for TM506's (of which I got one for $75+S&H)?

2. Will the modules that go into a TM5-whatever also work in a 5000 Series
oscilloscope? If not, then why is the 5000 series so popular? I can't
figure
any other reason anyone would want a 2MHz or 5MHz scope.

On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 12:55:28AM -0800, Stan or Patricia Griffiths wrote:

I think the plotter you are thinking of is the 4662. I have three of those and

I have one of those, too, and would like to be able to use it with some
of today's pc's running Linux, or even Win98. Anybody know of a program
that will handle that? I used to write real neat letters in German
using the 4052 or 4054, and then print them out on vellum using the
refillable drafting pens. They came out really nice. One year we did a
dozen or so Christmas letters using that method. 1981. The TEK 4050
series were really nice, and there was actually quite a bit of software
available. Too bad a raster display wasn't quickly developed to take
advantage of the existing system.

FWIW I produced our wedding invitiations on a 4051, plotting them out on a
Tek x-y plotter - I forget the type number of this unit. However, that too

X-Y plotters are much simpler than the 4662 which is a digital
plotter.
I did a Google search a while back on the Tektronix 4662 and saw a
reference where someone had replaced part of the electronics so it could
be driven with the output of a CAM program...to do something like
engraving or cutting styrofoam...can't remember the details.

--
Ray Menke

I think the plotter you are thinking of is the 4662. I have three of those and
my best one is on display at Building 50 on the Tektronix Campus in their
"mini-museum" history display. I also have a working 4052 with a few games on
it. I liked "Artillery" and my wife's favorite was "Weather War". Another of
my favorites was "Tanks".

Stan
w7ni@...

Craig Sawyers wrote:

I also remember that Asteroids game for the 4051.

FWIW I produced our wedding invitiations on a 4051, plotting them out on a
Tek x-y plotter - I forget the type number of this unit. However, that too
was pretty exotic stuff for 1978!

If I close my eyes I can hear the whirr of the cassette mechanism on the
front of the 4051.

As for lunar lander (haven't thought about that for decades!), when the 4052
came out the program was unusable. The computer was so much faster than the
4051 the trajectory took about 0.2 seconds - all you saw was a flash across
the screen, then the landscape redrew for the next go.

Craig

The 661 is the same physical size as a 545A. There is a picture of one on
page 337 of my book.

Stan
w7ni@...

Michael Dunn wrote:

Hi Michael,

Those are vertical amplifiers for the 661 sampling scope. The time bases for
the 661 had numbers like 5T1, 5T1A, and 5T3. In fact, those three were the
only timebases ever made for the 661. Two other vertical plugins were made,
however: the 4S2A and the 4S3. The 4S3 requires two P6038 active sampling
probes to work.

The sampling diodes were matched sets of 4 used in bridge configuration.
They were Tek-made GaAs and there was a bridge of 4 for each channel. The
4S1 and 4S2 used different diode sets. I think the 4S2A used yet a third
different set and the 4S3 had the sampling diodes located in the P6038 probes
and were different even yet. (P6038's were also used with the 3S3. 4S1
sampling diodes were the same as those used in the 3S76.)

If you don't have the rest of the system, those plugins are pretty useless.
Even then, they might be useless. I have three 661's but none of them have
been turned on by me yet. I suspect they are all badly broken as are
probably 90% of all 661 systems in the world today. I have some interest in
those plugins because they just MIGHT have a good diode set in one of the
channels which I think is going to be the hardest piece to find when I try to
get one of my systems up and running. So, I would be willing to do some
trading with you if your demands are not above my theshold of pain . . . Do
these plugins HAVE sampling diodes in them and what are the serial numbers of
the different units you have?

Stan
w7ni@...

Michael Dunn wrote:

Dean,

Very excellent idea about the two hole 7K plugin portable scope. The more I
think about it, the better I like it!

I remember a lunar lander game for the 4081 workstation which I played while
on a group tour of the Wilsonville facility. The 4081 display was large for
the time (19" diagonal?), and had storage plus "write-through" capability.
The game scenery was written first in storage mode, then the animated bits
(the lander and main engine and maneuvering thrusters, and even the dust the
engines kicked up when it was near the surface!) were vectored using
write-through. Control was via a joystick, which at the time was pretty
exotic. The game and animation worked very, very smoothly with all the
proper ballistics (remember this was about 1976 or so).

The rest of you may remember the 4081 as the display often used for computer
screen closeups on the "Battlestar Galactica" TV show. Can't remember if the
workstation was ever shown as part of the set, but the display write-through
and minicomputer speed made a pretty effective 'tactical sensor display'.

I also remember that Asteroids game for the 4051. Did you also get the tape
(remember those clunky 3M tape cartridges?) with the electronic music
programs on it? Played via the "beeper", with some songs in chords! Ragtime
was particularly effective. I remember being astonished at how good it
actually sounded.

Don

At 12:53 PM -0800 2002/1/9, Jim Reese wrote:

The 4S1 and 4S2 plugins are used with the 661 scope
mainframe along with a 5T1 or 5T2 time base. I

That must be a massive mainframe, to take TWO of those plug-ins! Got a picture? (upload to our Pictures area)

md

The 4S1 and 4S2 plugins are used with the 661 scope
mainframe along with a 5T1 or 5T2 time base. I
believe this was one of Teks first attempts at
sampling technology. I think I have a scope or two and
some plugs if you or anyone else is interested in one
for their collection.

Jim Reese

--- Michael Dunn <mdunn@...> wrote:

I just came across some 4S1s and 4S2s!!!
Dual-channel sampler
plugs w/o timebases. What on earth were these used
in? Anyone have
docs? I'd like to know what sampling diodes are
used in it if
nothing else... One of them actually had a risetime
of 0.1ns (~3GHz)!

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