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Info on Tek 2235 , P6120, assorted questions...

Dave Ashby
 

Hello Micheal,

One place where you can at least view testgear catalogues online is

They have copies of Tektronix catalogues going back over a number
of years, so you should find the info you want on the '2235 and
probe after rummaging around a bit. I'd try the catalogues around
1992 or so first. You'll be able to print the relevent pages from
acrobat. The only thing is, you have to register with them first.

Hope this helps,

David Ashby
Re: Capacitance standardizers

Phil (VA3UX)
 

At 02:11 PM 12/18/2001 -0800, you wrote:
Fair Radio Sales is selling an Input TC Normalizer (Tek No 067-0539-00).
Does anybody knows if this a discrete item or if it was part of any other
equipment (scope, probe, test device , etc). It seems to fit the desriptions
given on this postings but I am not sure what was it specific use.
Thanks for any ifo.
It's the 24 pf version of the device we posted about a few days ago. Read all the posts about the 15 pf 2input normalizer (067-0537-00) - same deal.

Phil
2 misc tek bits FS

 

I don't even know what these are or how I got them but they are some sort of inline RF devices with GenRad 874 connectors on them.
One is marked VP-1 017-0073-01 Zo = 50ohms (it has some sort of plastic T with a hole like a tap or something)
The other is marked 017-044 10XT 50ohms 1W (maybe this is some sort of load)

can anyone use these?

Make me an offer

Thanks
Peter Florance CET/CSM
Audio Services
544 Central Drive
Suite 101
Virginia Beach, VA 23454
757.498.8277
757.498.9554 Fax
email: mailto:audserv@...
Re: Capacitance standardizers

Joseph Orgnero
 

Fair Radio Sales is selling an Input TC Normalizer (Tek No 067-0539-00).
Does anybody knows if this a discrete item or if it was part of any other
equipment (scope, probe, test device , etc). It seems to fit the desriptions
given on this postings but I am not sure what was it specific use.
Thanks for any ifo.

-----Original Message-----
From: Miroslav Pokorni <mpokorni2000@...>
To: TekScopes@... <TekScopes@...>
Date: December 17, 2001 02:14 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: Capacitance standardizers



Since we are on standardizer subject and Dean brought up L/C meter, can
someone, please, tell me what is 'Inductance Standardizer for S-30' and how
it is used. The standardizer came with an old version of S-30, a transfer
standard for calibration of L/C meter Model 130. The version of S-30 is
conjured from the fact that it is in a two peace, deep drawn sheet metal
box, as opposed to later models that had 3 peace box, two cast end-caps and
sheet metal sides. The Inductance Standardizer itself is in a Pomona style
small box with RF connectors on ends and a switch labeled 茂驴陆UP茂驴陆 and 茂驴陆DOWN茂驴陆.
Inside, there is an old style silver mica cap (square, quite rectangular,
transfer molded body), an inductor (proper cross-hatch winding pattern),
couple of resistors that I can not determine value of and the switch.

It is quite possible that box is not a Tektronix product, but a shop brew,
since all marking are done with Dyno labels, while all other Tek boxes that
I have seen, would have at least part number silk screened on it.

My manual, a copy from original for instrument serial number 11000, does not
make any mention of the Standardizer, but then, it scarcely mentions
transfer standard, either.

Can someone, please, identify this box and tell me if it is a genuine Tek or
a shop brew, and in either case, how it is used.

deanhuster <dhuster@...> wrote: Morris, Stan's post is
deadly-accurate and will work well. The only
down-side to using a scope probe is that you'll end up with a 10X
signal attenuation which can make for a pretty short square wave on
the higher ranges. The normalizers had a 2X attenuation factor to
minimize that effect. So, the 10X probe method will work great, but
there will be that one small down-side. By the way, 15pF is about as
small as the input capacitance runs. I think the only smaller
normalizer that Tek made was 12pF. For the most part, Tek and most
other manufacturers settled on 20pF as the input capacitance
of "choice".

There was a foolish push at one time for Tek Service Centers to use
Type 30 L/C meters to calibrate their normalizers to their marked
value so that every scope could be adjusted to their marked value.
The proved to be a time-consuming move and rather pointless as few
customers ever moved a probe farther than one channel away from where
it started (let alone to another scope which might have a huge
difference in input capacitance anyway. The input capacitance
adjustment of most of the scopes was usually a thin brass screw in a
cylinder of Teflon and had an adjustment range of maybe 1-2 pF at the
most, if that. The only thing we ever tried to do was to match the
input C of all channels on a scope or plug-in and then compensate the
attenuator. Technicians should be checking their probe compensation
on a regular basis and not depend upon all scopes in the lab or shop
to be normalized to each other so that probes never need to be
checked. That would be a bad habit to develop.

By the way, if you end up working on a lot of scopes, rather than
buying several normalizers, you can get just one normalizer and
change out the capacitors by getting rid of the fixed and variable
parts and just installing one with a larger range and the right
physical size that'll go from maybe 10 to 50pF. It'll make it a
little harder to adjust, but won't be that bad and will work for any
input capacitance you'll come across.

Dean



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Info on Tek 2235 , P6120, assorted questions...

Michael
 

Hi all, :)

I have just acquired a Tek 2235, in good condition.

I was once told that these things were particularly subject to power supply
problems. Is this true?

Can anyone point me towards a Service manual?

Also, the unit was supplied with a P6210 probe. Can anyone supply a manual
for that, or at least tell me anything about the P6120? (Bandwidth, at
least).

Does anyone have an old Tek catalog covering the period of this scope, which
they would be prepared to part with?

And lastly, I believe there was a book called something like "Collecting and
restoring old Tektronix oscilloscopes". Due to a computer crash I have lost
the writer's address. Can anyone help please?

Thanks and regards,
:)
Michael Dunn
(Australia)
Re: Tek History book

 

I think, I can understand where Bill is coming from, though, I never worked for any company during 'good' years; somehow I always caught trailing edge. I would guess that 慻ood� years for Tektronix were between beginning and early 70抯.

Diminished respect (and recognition) of individuals go together with increase in company size, why else people would work for a small company. I know a thing or two about that, I worked for small companies over past 25 years and only thing that I have to show is occasional slap on the back and a handshake with 慴ig guy�. That makes for nice memories but does not produce any retirement pay.

The book might appear hypocritical because you know what was going on in the company before and after publication. Perhaps, the book have been started with intent to rekindle old spirit and revive 慜ld Tek�. However, the accountants seem to have carried the day, so book was published, but things went on in the old ways.

Regards

Miroslav Pokorni

billd1049 <billd1049@...> wrote: If you worked at Tek during the 'good' years (say the late 60's) as I
did, you know how much the company changed since then, often in ways
that made it a much less pleasant and rewarding place to work. In
light of the diminished respect for individual contributors at Tek,
the book seems very hypocritical. That is why I don't think much of
it. Perhaps other ex-Tek employees would agree, but I don't want to
speak for them.

- Bill Den Beste
Tek 1968 - 1979




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Capacitance standardizers

Don Black
 

Hi Miroslav,
I'll have to look it up but as I remember, the LC 130 manual give the instructions for making the Inductance Standardizer. The one you have was probably made by a customer or even a Tektronix technician to these instructions.
I'll try and find the relevant section and give you more details.
Merry Christmas Everyone.
Don Black.

Miroslav Pokorni wrote:

Since we are on standardizer subject and Dean brought up L/C meter, can someone, please, tell me what is 'Inductance Standardizer for S-30' and how it is used. The standardizer came with an old version of S-30, a transfer standard for calibration of L/C meter Model 130. The version of S-30 is conjured from the fact that it is in a two peace, deep drawn sheet metal box, as opposed to later models that had 3 peace box, two cast end-caps and sheet metal sides. The Inductance Standardizer itself is in a Pomona style small box with RF connectors on ends and a switch labeled 茂驴陆UP茂驴陆 and 茂驴陆DOWN茂驴陆. Inside, there is an old style silver mica cap (square, quite rectangular, transfer molded body), an inductor (proper cross-hatch winding pattern), couple of resistors that I can not determine value of and the switch.

It is quite possible that box is not a Tektronix product, but a shop brew, since all marking are done with Dyno labels, while all other Tek boxes that I have seen, would have at least part number silk screened on it.

My manual, a copy from original for instrument serial number 11000, does not make any mention of the Standardizer, but then, it scarcely mentions transfer standard, either.

Can someone, please, identify this box and tell me if it is a genuine Tek or a shop brew, and in either case, how it is used.

deanhuster <dhuster@...> wrote: Morris, Stan's post is deadly-accurate and will work well. The only
down-side to using a scope probe is that you'll end up with a 10X
signal attenuation which can make for a pretty short square wave on
the higher ranges. The normalizers had a 2X attenuation factor to
minimize that effect. So, the 10X probe method will work great, but
there will be that one small down-side. By the way, 15pF is about as
small as the input capacitance runs. I think the only smaller
normalizer that Tek made was 12pF. For the most part, Tek and most
other manufacturers settled on 20pF as the input capacitance
of "choice".

There was a foolish push at one time for Tek Service Centers to use
Type 30 L/C meters to calibrate their normalizers to their marked
value so that every scope could be adjusted to their marked value.
The proved to be a time-consuming move and rather pointless as few
customers ever moved a probe farther than one channel away from where
it started (let alone to another scope which might have a huge
difference in input capacitance anyway. The input capacitance
adjustment of most of the scopes was usually a thin brass screw in a
cylinder of Teflon and had an adjustment range of maybe 1-2 pF at the
most, if that. The only thing we ever tried to do was to match the
input C of all channels on a scope or plug-in and then compensate the
attenuator. Technicians should be checking their probe compensation
on a regular basis and not depend upon all scopes in the lab or shop
to be normalized to each other so that probes never need to be
checked. That would be a bad habit to develop.

By the way, if you end up working on a lot of scopes, rather than
buying several normalizers, you can get just one normalizer and
change out the capacitors by getting rid of the fixed and variable
parts and just installing one with a larger range and the right
physical size that'll go from maybe 10 to 50pF. It'll make it a
little harder to adjust, but won't be that bad and will work for any
input capacitance you'll come across.

Dean

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Re: Tek History book

Ray Menke
 

On Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 06:06:47PM -0500, Phil (VA3UX) wrote:
I was wandering if book published for Tek's 40th anniversary is available
for sale and where there any other history books published after and
before 40th.
I don't think any have been published since the 40th.
I got mine from a retired Tek employee here in Canada. As far as I could
gather, the books were distributed only to Tek employees during Tek's 40th
anniversary, and were never published or sold to the public. They may also
have been avaiIable as "sales giveaways" to Tek customers but I'm not sure
about that. I have seen them for sale on eBay.
If you are smitten with Tektronix, it's a fabulous book to read.
Yes, each Sales guy was given a copy of the book, and then was able to
order more to give away to his favorite customers. I ordered a whole
box of them, and recently discovered two batches of five still
shrink-wrapped hidden away in the back corner of my library. I started
listing them on ebay, with a $9.99 starting price, and sold them all in
a few months. They were all soft-covered and colored a very dark blue, to
the best of my knowledge. (I have been retired since 1997, after 28 1/2 yrs.)
You might set up a search so ebay can notify you if "Tektronix Book:
First 40" shows up.

--
Ray Menke
Re: Capacitance standardizers

morriso2002
 

--- In TekScopes@y..., "deanhuster" <dhuster@p...> wrote:

By the way, if you end up working on a lot of scopes, rather than
buying several normalizers, you can get just one normalizer and
change out the capacitors by getting rid of the fixed and variable
parts and just installing one with a larger range and the right
physical size that'll go from maybe 10 to 50pF. It'll make it a
little harder to adjust, but won't be that bad and will work for
any
input capacitance you'll come across.
This is a great idea. It might take a slightly larger box to
accommodate a variable cap but the principle is obvious once you know
how the thing works. I have a reasonable collection of Teks with
mainframe and plugin capacitances from over 20 pf down to 15 pf.
Using Stan's probe technique I found there waasn't much maladjustment
in the 1A1 I was working on but the idea of an adjustable
standardizer is very attractive.

Morris




Dean
Re: Tek History book

 

If you worked at Tek during the 'good' years (say the late 60's) as I
did, you know how much the company changed since then, often in ways
that made it a much less pleasant and rewarding place to work. In
light of the diminished respect for individual contributors at Tek,
the book seems very hypocritical. That is why I don't think much of
it. Perhaps other ex-Tek employees would agree, but I don't want to
speak for them.

- Bill Den Beste
Tek 1968 - 1979
Re: Tek History book

 

I guess, a lot of employees did not hold books dear, there is a number of them on used market. Some of the books were described as 'Soft Bound'; I wander if those are reprints for customer giveaways, which appeared after exhausting initial stock.

David DiGiacomo gave me address of a place which syndicates used book retailers. The book, 1st edition, was available for around $10 and I bought it.

Regards

Miroslav Pokorni

"Phil (VA3UX)" <phil@...> wrote: At 02:30 PM 12/17/2001 -0800, you wrote:

I was wandering if book published for Tek's 40th anniversary is available
for sale and where there any other history books published after and
before 40th.
I got mine from a retired Tek employee here in Canada. As far as I could
gather, the books were distributed only to Tek employees during Tek's 40th
anniversary, and were never published or sold to the public. They may also
have been avaiIable as "sales giveaways" to Tek customers but I'm not sure
about that. I have seen them for sale on eBay.

If you are smitten with Tektronix, it's a fabulous book to read.

Stan : are you up to copying that one for a CD ?

Phil


"Phil (VA3UX)" <phil@...> wrote: At 12:14 PM 11/20/2001 -0800,
you wrote:
Hi Don,

This story probably falls in the category of "Tek Legends" but that does
not mean it
is not true. If asked to prove it . . . I could not . . .
It is apparently quite true Stan, assuming Marshall Lee did a thorough job
of researching Tek's history for Tek's 40th anniversary book. It's on page
241. The bogus "D" holes were prompted by an order (to Tektronix) for two
plug-ins from a company that was a subcontractor to Hickok. The order
apparently had the words "Hickok Job" somewhere on the order form, which
was enough to raise plenty of suspicion and get them planning a trap (the
"D" holes).

Phil


Tek had a pretty good idea what was going to happen when they lost the
Goverment bids
for Tek scopes. They knew who the competing companies were and that
copying was very
likely to take place as there really wasn't an easy way to get around
Tek's patents
and still meet the Government specs for scopes. Tek was on the lookout for
suspicious orders that would be placed with them for instruments that
would serve as
the copy samples.

When a suspicous order was found, Tek rigged a special instrument with an
extra hole
in the chassis with no special purpose other than to make it a unique
instrument and
shipped that instrument to satisfy the order. Sure enough, that very hole
showed up
in the copies. In court, Tek asked the defending companies to explain the
purpose of
the hole and, of course, there was no explaination. Tek, however, had a
very good
explaination, with documents to prove it . . . I don't remember whether
this now
famous hole was in a scope or a plugin. Boy, would I like to have THAT
instrument in
my collection . . .

Stan
w7ni@...

Don Black wrote:

Yes, please tell us about the "Bait Hole".
I've got visions of one of those little Tektronix cartoons of a plugin
sitting on
the ice with a little technician fishing through the hole.
But perhaps I'm just a little weird.
Don Black.

"Phil (VA3UX)" wrote:

At 11:50 AM 11/19/2001 -0800, you wrote:
Hi Mike,

I agree that the Hickok, LaVoie, and Jetronic instruments have some
historic

There are other chapters to this story about what evidence Tek
provided at the
trial that might be interesting to some of you.
Tell them about the "bait" plug-in : the one with the special hole
drilled
in the chassis.

Phil

Stan
w7ni@...

mwcpc7@... wrote:

In a message dated 11/18/2001 5:28:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
w7ni@... writes:


The main reason that the lawsuit between the U.S. Government and
Tektronix
took so long is that it was the first time in U.S. History that
a private
company (Tek) ever took the U.S.Government to court for patent
infringement.
There were no precidents and no one knew exactly how to
proceed. The
Government's position was that since they had ISSUED the
patents to
Tek in
the first place, they could rescind them any time they wanted
to. Tek
challenged that concept and it took 20 years to resolve it. In
the mean
time,
2 of the three companies that did the copying of Tek
instruments (with
Government approval) went bankrupt (LaVoie
and Jetronic) so there was nothing for Tek to collect from
them. The U.S.
Government and Hickok were left to pay the damages, which, by the
way, did
not even come close to covering the attorny costs, much less
any real
damage
done to Tek.

I have one of the Hickok 545s and was quite surprised to see it
at a
Hamfest.
I was originally going to use it just for parts, but the very
interesting
discussion here makes me think that it has some historical
interest.

Mike Csontos


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---------------------------------
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Re: Tek History book

 

I guess, a lot of employees did not hold books dear, there is a number of them on used market. Some of the books were described as 'Soft Bound'; I wander if those are reprints for customer giveaways, which appeared after exhausting initial stock.

David DiGiacomo gave me address of a place which syndicates used book retailers. The book, 1st edition, was available for around $10 and I bought it.

Regards

Miroslav Pokorni

"Phil (VA3UX)" <phil@...> wrote: At 02:30 PM 12/17/2001 -0800, you wrote:

I was wandering if book published for Tek's 40th anniversary is available
for sale and where there any other history books published after and
before 40th.
I got mine from a retired Tek employee here in Canada. As far as I could
gather, the books were distributed only to Tek employees during Tek's 40th
anniversary, and were never published or sold to the public. They may also
have been avaiIable as "sales giveaways" to Tek customers but I'm not sure
about that. I have seen them for sale on eBay.

If you are smitten with Tektronix, it's a fabulous book to read.

Stan : are you up to copying that one for a CD ?

Phil


"Phil (VA3UX)" <phil@...> wrote: At 12:14 PM 11/20/2001 -0800,
you wrote:
Hi Don,

This story probably falls in the category of "Tek Legends" but that does
not mean it
is not true. If asked to prove it . . . I could not . . .
It is apparently quite true Stan, assuming Marshall Lee did a thorough job
of researching Tek's history for Tek's 40th anniversary book. It's on page
241. The bogus "D" holes were prompted by an order (to Tektronix) for two
plug-ins from a company that was a subcontractor to Hickok. The order
apparently had the words "Hickok Job" somewhere on the order form, which
was enough to raise plenty of suspicion and get them planning a trap (the
"D" holes).

Phil


Tek had a pretty good idea what was going to happen when they lost the
Goverment bids
for Tek scopes. They knew who the competing companies were and that
copying was very
likely to take place as there really wasn't an easy way to get around
Tek's patents
and still meet the Government specs for scopes. Tek was on the lookout for
suspicious orders that would be placed with them for instruments that
would serve as
the copy samples.

When a suspicous order was found, Tek rigged a special instrument with an
extra hole
in the chassis with no special purpose other than to make it a unique
instrument and
shipped that instrument to satisfy the order. Sure enough, that very hole
showed up
in the copies. In court, Tek asked the defending companies to explain the
purpose of
the hole and, of course, there was no explaination. Tek, however, had a
very good
explaination, with documents to prove it . . . I don't remember whether
this now
famous hole was in a scope or a plugin. Boy, would I like to have THAT
instrument in
my collection . . .

Stan
w7ni@...

Don Black wrote:

Yes, please tell us about the "Bait Hole".
I've got visions of one of those little Tektronix cartoons of a plugin
sitting on
the ice with a little technician fishing through the hole.
But perhaps I'm just a little weird.
Don Black.

"Phil (VA3UX)" wrote:

At 11:50 AM 11/19/2001 -0800, you wrote:
Hi Mike,

I agree that the Hickok, LaVoie, and Jetronic instruments have some
historic

There are other chapters to this story about what evidence Tek
provided at the
trial that might be interesting to some of you.
Tell them about the "bait" plug-in : the one with the special hole
drilled
in the chassis.

Phil

Stan
w7ni@...

mwcpc7@... wrote:

In a message dated 11/18/2001 5:28:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
w7ni@... writes:


The main reason that the lawsuit between the U.S. Government and
Tektronix
took so long is that it was the first time in U.S. History that
a private
company (Tek) ever took the U.S.Government to court for patent
infringement.
There were no precidents and no one knew exactly how to
proceed. The
Government's position was that since they had ISSUED the
patents to
Tek in
the first place, they could rescind them any time they wanted
to. Tek
challenged that concept and it took 20 years to resolve it. In
the mean
time,
2 of the three companies that did the copying of Tek
instruments (with
Government approval) went bankrupt (LaVoie
and Jetronic) so there was nothing for Tek to collect from
them. The U.S.
Government and Hickok were left to pay the damages, which, by the
way, did
not even come close to covering the attorny costs, much less
any real
damage
done to Tek.

I have one of the Hickok 545s and was quite surprised to see it
at a
Hamfest.
I was originally going to use it just for parts, but the very
interesting
discussion here makes me think that it has some historical
interest.

Mike Csontos


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Re: Tek History book

[email protected]
 

The book is "Winning with People: The First 40 Years of Tektronix", by
Marshall M. Lee, and there are several copies available for sale at
.

The Tek old timers like Stan & Deane don't seem to think too much of it,
but I found it interesting.
Tek History book

Phil (VA3UX)
 

At 02:30 PM 12/17/2001 -0800, you wrote:

I was wandering if book published for Tek's 40th anniversary is available for sale and where there any other history books published after and before 40th.
I got mine from a retired Tek employee here in Canada. As far as I could gather, the books were distributed only to Tek employees during Tek's 40th anniversary, and were never published or sold to the public. They may also have been avaiIable as "sales giveaways" to Tek customers but I'm not sure about that. I have seen them for sale on eBay.

If you are smitten with Tektronix, it's a fabulous book to read.

Stan : are you up to copying that one for a CD ?

Phil


"Phil (VA3UX)" <phil@...> wrote: At 12:14 PM 11/20/2001 -0800, you wrote:
Hi Don,

This story probably falls in the category of "Tek Legends" but that does
not mean it
is not true. If asked to prove it . . . I could not . . .
It is apparently quite true Stan, assuming Marshall Lee did a thorough job
of researching Tek's history for Tek's 40th anniversary book. It's on page
241. The bogus "D" holes were prompted by an order (to Tektronix) for two
plug-ins from a company that was a subcontractor to Hickok. The order
apparently had the words "Hickok Job" somewhere on the order form, which
was enough to raise plenty of suspicion and get them planning a trap (the
"D" holes).

Phil


Tek had a pretty good idea what was going to happen when they lost the
Goverment bids
for Tek scopes. They knew who the competing companies were and that
copying was very
likely to take place as there really wasn't an easy way to get around
Tek's patents
and still meet the Government specs for scopes. Tek was on the lookout for
suspicious orders that would be placed with them for instruments that
would serve as
the copy samples.

When a suspicous order was found, Tek rigged a special instrument with an
extra hole
in the chassis with no special purpose other than to make it a unique
instrument and
shipped that instrument to satisfy the order. Sure enough, that very hole
showed up
in the copies. In court, Tek asked the defending companies to explain the
purpose of
the hole and, of course, there was no explaination. Tek, however, had a
very good
explaination, with documents to prove it . . . I don't remember whether
this now
famous hole was in a scope or a plugin. Boy, would I like to have THAT
instrument in
my collection . . .

Stan
w7ni@...

Don Black wrote:

Yes, please tell us about the "Bait Hole".
I've got visions of one of those little Tektronix cartoons of a plugin
sitting on
the ice with a little technician fishing through the hole.
But perhaps I'm just a little weird.
Don Black.

"Phil (VA3UX)" wrote:

At 11:50 AM 11/19/2001 -0800, you wrote:
Hi Mike,

I agree that the Hickok, LaVoie, and Jetronic instruments have some
historic

There are other chapters to this story about what evidence Tek
provided at the
trial that might be interesting to some of you.
Tell them about the "bait" plug-in : the one with the special hole
drilled
in the chassis.

Phil

Stan
w7ni@...

mwcpc7@... wrote:

In a message dated 11/18/2001 5:28:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
w7ni@... writes:


The main reason that the lawsuit between the U.S. Government and
Tektronix
took so long is that it was the first time in U.S. History that
a private
company (Tek) ever took the U.S.Government to court for patent
infringement.
There were no precidents and no one knew exactly how to
proceed. The
Government's position was that since they had ISSUED the
patents to
Tek in
the first place, they could rescind them any time they wanted
to. Tek
challenged that concept and it took 20 years to resolve it. In
the mean
time,
2 of the three companies that did the copying of Tek
instruments (with
Government approval) went bankrupt (LaVoie
and Jetronic) so there was nothing for Tek to collect from
them. The U.S.
Government and Hickok were left to pay the damages, which, by the
way, did
not even come close to covering the attorny costs, much less
any real
damage
done to Tek.

I have one of the Hickok 545s and was quite surprised to see it
at a
Hamfest.
I was originally going to use it just for parts, but the very
interesting
discussion here makes me think that it has some historical
interest.

Mike Csontos


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Re: Scope Copying

 

I was wandering if book published for Tek's 40th anniversary is available for sale and where there any other history books published after and before 40th.

"Phil (VA3UX)" <phil@...> wrote: At 12:14 PM 11/20/2001 -0800, you wrote:
Hi Don,

This story probably falls in the category of "Tek Legends" but that does
not mean it
is not true. If asked to prove it . . . I could not . . .
It is apparently quite true Stan, assuming Marshall Lee did a thorough job
of researching Tek's history for Tek's 40th anniversary book. It's on page
241. The bogus "D" holes were prompted by an order (to Tektronix) for two
plug-ins from a company that was a subcontractor to Hickok. The order
apparently had the words "Hickok Job" somewhere on the order form, which
was enough to raise plenty of suspicion and get them planning a trap (the
"D" holes).

Phil


Tek had a pretty good idea what was going to happen when they lost the
Goverment bids
for Tek scopes. They knew who the competing companies were and that
copying was very
likely to take place as there really wasn't an easy way to get around
Tek's patents
and still meet the Government specs for scopes. Tek was on the lookout for
suspicious orders that would be placed with them for instruments that
would serve as
the copy samples.

When a suspicous order was found, Tek rigged a special instrument with an
extra hole
in the chassis with no special purpose other than to make it a unique
instrument and
shipped that instrument to satisfy the order. Sure enough, that very hole
showed up
in the copies. In court, Tek asked the defending companies to explain the
purpose of
the hole and, of course, there was no explaination. Tek, however, had a
very good
explaination, with documents to prove it . . . I don't remember whether
this now
famous hole was in a scope or a plugin. Boy, would I like to have THAT
instrument in
my collection . . .

Stan
w7ni@...

Don Black wrote:

Yes, please tell us about the "Bait Hole".
I've got visions of one of those little Tektronix cartoons of a plugin
sitting on
the ice with a little technician fishing through the hole.
But perhaps I'm just a little weird.
Don Black.

"Phil (VA3UX)" wrote:

At 11:50 AM 11/19/2001 -0800, you wrote:
Hi Mike,

I agree that the Hickok, LaVoie, and Jetronic instruments have some
historic

There are other chapters to this story about what evidence Tek
provided at the
trial that might be interesting to some of you.
Tell them about the "bait" plug-in : the one with the special hole
drilled
in the chassis.

Phil

Stan
w7ni@...

mwcpc7@... wrote:

In a message dated 11/18/2001 5:28:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
w7ni@... writes:


The main reason that the lawsuit between the U.S. Government and
Tektronix
took so long is that it was the first time in U.S. History that
a private
company (Tek) ever took the U.S.Government to court for patent
infringement.
There were no precidents and no one knew exactly how to
proceed. The
Government's position was that since they had ISSUED the patents to
Tek in
the first place, they could rescind them any time they wanted
to. Tek
challenged that concept and it took 20 years to resolve it. In
the mean
time,
2 of the three companies that did the copying of Tek
instruments (with
Government approval) went bankrupt (LaVoie
and Jetronic) so there was nothing for Tek to collect from
them. The U.S.
Government and Hickok were left to pay the damages, which, by the
way, did
not even come close to covering the attorny costs, much less
any real
damage
done to Tek.

I have one of the Hickok 545s and was quite surprised to see it at a
Hamfest.
I was originally going to use it just for parts, but the very
interesting
discussion here makes me think that it has some historical interest.

Mike Csontos


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Re: Capacitance standardizers

 

Since we are on standardizer subject and Dean brought up L/C meter, can someone, please, tell me what is 'Inductance Standardizer for S-30' and how it is used. The standardizer came with an old version of S-30, a transfer standard for calibration of L/C meter Model 130. The version of S-30 is conjured from the fact that it is in a two peace, deep drawn sheet metal box, as opposed to later models that had 3 peace box, two cast end-caps and sheet metal sides. The Inductance Standardizer itself is in a Pomona style small box with RF connectors on ends and a switch labeled 慤P� and 慏OWN�. Inside, there is an old style silver mica cap (square, quite rectangular, transfer molded body), an inductor (proper cross-hatch winding pattern), couple of resistors that I can not determine value of and the switch.

It is quite possible that box is not a Tektronix product, but a shop brew, since all marking are done with Dyno labels, while all other Tek boxes that I have seen, would have at least part number silk screened on it.

My manual, a copy from original for instrument serial number 11000, does not make any mention of the Standardizer, but then, it scarcely mentions transfer standard, either.

Can someone, please, identify this box and tell me if it is a genuine Tek or a shop brew, and in either case, how it is used.

deanhuster <dhuster@...> wrote: Morris, Stan's post is deadly-accurate and will work well. The only
down-side to using a scope probe is that you'll end up with a 10X
signal attenuation which can make for a pretty short square wave on
the higher ranges. The normalizers had a 2X attenuation factor to
minimize that effect. So, the 10X probe method will work great, but
there will be that one small down-side. By the way, 15pF is about as
small as the input capacitance runs. I think the only smaller
normalizer that Tek made was 12pF. For the most part, Tek and most
other manufacturers settled on 20pF as the input capacitance
of "choice".

There was a foolish push at one time for Tek Service Centers to use
Type 30 L/C meters to calibrate their normalizers to their marked
value so that every scope could be adjusted to their marked value.
The proved to be a time-consuming move and rather pointless as few
customers ever moved a probe farther than one channel away from where
it started (let alone to another scope which might have a huge
difference in input capacitance anyway. The input capacitance
adjustment of most of the scopes was usually a thin brass screw in a
cylinder of Teflon and had an adjustment range of maybe 1-2 pF at the
most, if that. The only thing we ever tried to do was to match the
input C of all channels on a scope or plug-in and then compensate the
attenuator. Technicians should be checking their probe compensation
on a regular basis and not depend upon all scopes in the lab or shop
to be normalized to each other so that probes never need to be
checked. That would be a bad habit to develop.

By the way, if you end up working on a lot of scopes, rather than
buying several normalizers, you can get just one normalizer and
change out the capacitors by getting rid of the fixed and variable
parts and just installing one with a larger range and the right
physical size that'll go from maybe 10 to 50pF. It'll make it a
little harder to adjust, but won't be that bad and will work for any
input capacitance you'll come across.

Dean



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Capacitance standardizers

 

'deadly-accurate' ??

I don't think so... A scope probe is not a good idea to use as
adjustment for the small delta input capacity range of an input
attenuator. If you have a probe which is not normalised to 20pF, and
you start calibrating your plugin or scope with this, you will get a
mis calibrated input capacity, not matching 20 pF. The result wil not
be noticed until you get more test equipment on your bench and you
start swapping probes from one instrument to another.

Tektronix has input normalisers(calibrated) for 30, 20 and 15pF. BTW,
you see that HP and Tek is moving to 15 and 12pF nowadays to give an
even lower capacity at the probe tip. This results in less ringing.

Fred
Re: Capacitance standardizers

deanhuster
 

Morris, Stan's post is deadly-accurate and will work well. The only
down-side to using a scope probe is that you'll end up with a 10X
signal attenuation which can make for a pretty short square wave on
the higher ranges. The normalizers had a 2X attenuation factor to
minimize that effect. So, the 10X probe method will work great, but
there will be that one small down-side. By the way, 15pF is about as
small as the input capacitance runs. I think the only smaller
normalizer that Tek made was 12pF. For the most part, Tek and most
other manufacturers settled on 20pF as the input capacitance
of "choice".

There was a foolish push at one time for Tek Service Centers to use
Type 30 L/C meters to calibrate their normalizers to their marked
value so that every scope could be adjusted to their marked value.
The proved to be a time-consuming move and rather pointless as few
customers ever moved a probe farther than one channel away from where
it started (let alone to another scope which might have a huge
difference in input capacitance anyway. The input capacitance
adjustment of most of the scopes was usually a thin brass screw in a
cylinder of Teflon and had an adjustment range of maybe 1-2 pF at the
most, if that. The only thing we ever tried to do was to match the
input C of all channels on a scope or plug-in and then compensate the
attenuator. Technicians should be checking their probe compensation
on a regular basis and not depend upon all scopes in the lab or shop
to be normalized to each other so that probes never need to be
checked. That would be a bad habit to develop.

By the way, if you end up working on a lot of scopes, rather than
buying several normalizers, you can get just one normalizer and
change out the capacitors by getting rid of the fixed and variable
parts and just installing one with a larger range and the right
physical size that'll go from maybe 10 to 50pF. It'll make it a
little harder to adjust, but won't be that bad and will work for any
input capacitance you'll come across.

Dean
2235 trace-amplitude-limiting problem

 

I have a Tek 2235 that won't let the trace go outside of about +/-
2.5 to 3 divisions, on the CRT. This occurs when the vertical
position controls are used, producing a clipping effect on the
displayed waveform. Also, when large signals are applied, they go
slightly farther toward the top and bottom of the screen, but are
distorted above and below those same levels on the screen.
Additionally, the vertical position controls interact, causing a
movement in the opposite direction, on the other channel.

Any ideas about where to start looking?

Tom Gootee
Re: Tektronix 7704A mainframe repair (I)

Dave Ashby
 

Hello Jose,

In case you don't already know about them, Sphere do spare Tek parts.
The website page to go to is:
You can email a list of parts you need, and they'll try to help out.

Best wishes,

David Ashby
207601 - 207620 of 208688