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Re: OT: Stabilizing Old Transformer Input Wires

 

Here's someone using "Shoe Goo" urethane to hand make strain relief on cables. It may work in this application as well.



-- Jeff Dutky


Re: OT: Stabilizing Old Transformer Input Wires

 

Barry,

Ordinary household silicone sealant releases Acetic Acid as it cures so
you're right, it's not kind to most metals. But they also make an
electronics grade silicone sealant that won't harm metal. I don't know if
it's suitable for your transformer but I thought that you might like to
know.

On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 11:14 PM n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:

I just don't know where there's an appropriate group for this so thought
I'd ask here.

I have a transformer (out of a fairly old SOLA CVT) whose 115V input leads
have become fragile right at the point where they enter the windings. It
is good enough to get a wire spliced onto it but I would like to stabilize
the point where it enters the transformer.

This transformer was inside of a metal housing and poured with a generous
layer of tar to stabilize everything - including the laminations as those
can be noisy. While tar would probably work, I'd rather use something else
and only at the point where these two wires enter the core to hopefully
prevent further breakage after the splice is made. I'm thinking of making
a small form at the end of the core around the wires and pour a potting
compound of sorts in the form.

My first thoughts would be something akin to silicone sealant but, as I
understand it, that stuff is not kind to wiring. Roofing tar might work if
it sets up firmly enough but, again, would like to steer clear of more
tar. Is there something out there that would work well for this?

Feel free to respond directly to me.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ







Re: OT: Stabilizing Old Transformer Input Wires

 

Use RTV that is labeled oxygen sensor safe.
The bad stuff cures and releases acetic acid.
You can smell it when you open the tube.
The good stuff cures with IIRC methyl alcohol.

73
Glenn
WB4UIV

On 4/27/2021 11:14 PM, n4buq wrote:
I just don't know where there's an appropriate group for this so thought I'd ask here.
I have a transformer (out of a fairly old SOLA CVT) whose 115V input leads have become fragile right at the point where they enter the windings. It is good enough to get a wire spliced onto it but I would like to stabilize the point where it enters the transformer.
This transformer was inside of a metal housing and poured with a generous layer of tar to stabilize everything - including the laminations as those can be noisy. While tar would probably work, I'd rather use something else and only at the point where these two wires enter the core to hopefully prevent further breakage after the splice is made. I'm thinking of making a small form at the end of the core around the wires and pour a potting compound of sorts in the form.
My first thoughts would be something akin to silicone sealant but, as I understand it, that stuff is not kind to wiring. Roofing tar might work if it sets up firmly enough but, again, would like to steer clear of more tar. Is there something out there that would work well for this?
Feel free to respond directly to me.
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glenn Little ARRL Technical Specialist QCWA LM 28417
Amateur Callsign: WB4UIV wb4uiv@... AMSAT LM 2178
QTH: Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx) USSVI, FRA, NRA-LM ARRL TAPR
"It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
of the Amateur that holds the license"


Re: OT: Stabilizing Old Transformer Input Wires

 

Neutral/alcohol cure silicone should be fine. Just avoid acetoxy cure grades.
Two pot silicone should also be OK as long as curing doesnt produce amines or acetic acid.

Bruce

On 28 April 2021 at 15:14 n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:


I just don't know where there's an appropriate group for this so thought I'd ask here.

I have a transformer (out of a fairly old SOLA CVT) whose 115V input leads have become fragile right at the point where they enter the windings. It is good enough to get a wire spliced onto it but I would like to stabilize the point where it enters the transformer.

This transformer was inside of a metal housing and poured with a generous layer of tar to stabilize everything - including the laminations as those can be noisy. While tar would probably work, I'd rather use something else and only at the point where these two wires enter the core to hopefully prevent further breakage after the splice is made. I'm thinking of making a small form at the end of the core around the wires and pour a potting compound of sorts in the form.

My first thoughts would be something akin to silicone sealant but, as I understand it, that stuff is not kind to wiring. Roofing tar might work if it sets up firmly enough but, again, would like to steer clear of more tar. Is there something out there that would work well for this?

Feel free to respond directly to me.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ






OT: Stabilizing Old Transformer Input Wires

 

I just don't know where there's an appropriate group for this so thought I'd ask here.

I have a transformer (out of a fairly old SOLA CVT) whose 115V input leads have become fragile right at the point where they enter the windings. It is good enough to get a wire spliced onto it but I would like to stabilize the point where it enters the transformer.

This transformer was inside of a metal housing and poured with a generous layer of tar to stabilize everything - including the laminations as those can be noisy. While tar would probably work, I'd rather use something else and only at the point where these two wires enter the core to hopefully prevent further breakage after the splice is made. I'm thinking of making a small form at the end of the core around the wires and pour a potting compound of sorts in the form.

My first thoughts would be something akin to silicone sealant but, as I understand it, that stuff is not kind to wiring. Roofing tar might work if it sets up firmly enough but, again, would like to steer clear of more tar. Is there something out there that would work well for this?

Feel free to respond directly to me.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ


Re: NEVERMIND: Can anyone use a 453 P6010 (010-0187-00) probe?

 

Sorry, I meant Jeff, not Dennis.

Never mind.

DaveD

On Apr 27, 2021, at 22:40, Dave Daniel via groups.io <kc0wjn@...> wrote:

?Wow, Dennis. That came out of nowhere and had me laughing. I haven¡¯t thought of Emily or Gilda in a long time.

On Apr 27, 2021, at 22:07, Jeff Dutky <jeff.dutky@...> wrote:

?Dennis,

Emily Litella called, she wants her ... oh, nevermind.








Re: NEVERMIND: Can anyone use a 453 P6010 (010-0187-00) probe?

 

Wow, Dennis. That came out of nowhere and had me laughing. I haven¡¯t thought of Emily or Gilda in a long time.

On Apr 27, 2021, at 22:07, Jeff Dutky <jeff.dutky@...> wrote:

?Dennis,

Emily Litella called, she wants her ... oh, nevermind.





Re: 465 Electrolytic Capacitor Replacement

 

The PACE solder rework training has some interesting "methods" for component removal



of course they only mention "Heat and Shake" but don't recommend it.

-- Jeff Dutky


Re: New to Tek 465B operation

 

Roy Thistle wrote:

For an example of ... a probe not to buy see ...
and here is an example of a probe that is being properly handled:

the price is okay, but the probe looks to be in fine shape (disclaimer: I've bought from that seller and got a good probe from the transaction)

-- Jeff Dutky


Re: NEVERMIND: Can anyone use a 453 P6010 (010-0187-00) probe?

 

Dennis,

Emily Litella called, she wants her ... oh, nevermind.


Re: OT! OT! --- E-bay fee change -- OT! OT! Cross posted with HP group.

 

Hi Dennis,
? ?Thank you and all the others who responded.? Yes, I think the way to go will be as many suggested, and open up a local credit union account, just for e-bay and paypal (and venmo also wants to link to my account!).? ?We'll keep just enough money in it to cover the expenses we expect from e-bay and the like.? ?And right now I think between my wife and I we have 4 Bank of America accounts, and after the fees they imposed on an account recently, we have been looking to close some of those, so we'll end up with net fewer accounts in the end.??
? So thanks, and I think we can put an end to this thread.? Issue resolved on my end!
? Dan

On Tuesday, April 27, 2021, 08:18:51 PM EDT, Dennis Tillman W7pF <dennis@...> wrote:

Hi Daniel,
Marian absolutely refuses to give any one access to our bank accounts (I think she is smarter than me) so we struggled when eBay insisted we had to provide them with a bank account. Then we realized there was a simple solution: We opened an account solely for eBay at a local credit union. It's cheap and simple.

Now we can freely transfer funds from our main account to our eBay account and vice-versa in a matter of minutes. Problem solved. The only drawback (very minor) is keeping track of two bank accounts.

From the many replies you received to your post it seems like many of our members have done exactly the same thing.
Dennis Tillman W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Daniel Koller via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 11:26 AM
To: TekScopes <[email protected]>; HP Agilent Keysight <[email protected]>
Subject: [TekScopes] OT! OT! --- E-bay fee change -- OT! OT! Cross posted with HP group.

Hi folks, this is OFF TOPIC because it's about e-bay, but on the other hand, with the exception of my older gear, it's just about the only way I get *any* Tek or HP gear these days.? So, with apologies if it drags on too long and in the wrong direction,....
I got a message from e-bay that explains they are changing their payment structure.? According to that, sellers will need to directly link a bank account to e-bay so that they can receive payments directly from buyers.? By May 21, if you do not link a bank account to e-bay, they will not allow new postings!? So, the implication is that Paypal is no longer going to work. I don't know about folks here, but I suspect, like me, they are a bit older, financially conservative, and are loathe to link a personal bank account to e-bay.? ? To this day I do not have my paypal account "linked" to my bank account.? I can have all my on-line accounts hacked, but none of them have any access to my bank account.
One thing I thought to do is open a small credit union account with low/no fees and use that only for e-bay / paypal and keep the balance low, just in case something gets hacked.? ? But now I have to go to the bank, or perhaps open an account on-line.? E-bay is NOT making it easier for the small seller.? More and more e-bay is just becoming a venue for cheap Chinese goods and wholesale garbage.
? So, just wondering what folks here plan to do about selling their old gear, and working with ebay in the future.? Anyone have any good Ideas or workarounds to the e-bay problem, or an alternate e-venue for buying and selling old gear?? E-bay has been a collector's and hobbyist's goldmine for 20 years.? It's sad to see it continually changing for the worse.
? I am sensitive to the fact that this is a topic only tangentially related to Tek or HP gear, so please keep replies relevant to how e-bay is a conduit for acquiring such gear for us.? I'm happy to take replies off-group as well, but if it's relevant, I presume we all want to hear about it.
? Thanks,
? Dan







--
Dennis Tillman W7pF
TekScopes Moderator


Re: OT! OT! --- E-bay fee change -- OT! OT! Cross posted with HP group.

 

Hi Daniel,
Marian absolutely refuses to give any one access to our bank accounts (I think she is smarter than me) so we struggled when eBay insisted we had to provide them with a bank account. Then we realized there was a simple solution: We opened an account solely for eBay at a local credit union. It's cheap and simple.

Now we can freely transfer funds from our main account to our eBay account and vice-versa in a matter of minutes. Problem solved. The only drawback (very minor) is keeping track of two bank accounts.

From the many replies you received to your post it seems like many of our members have done exactly the same thing.
Dennis Tillman W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Daniel Koller via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 11:26 AM
To: TekScopes <[email protected]>; HP Agilent Keysight <[email protected]>
Subject: [TekScopes] OT! OT! --- E-bay fee change -- OT! OT! Cross posted with HP group.

Hi folks, this is OFF TOPIC because it's about e-bay, but on the other hand, with the exception of my older gear, it's just about the only way I get *any* Tek or HP gear these days. So, with apologies if it drags on too long and in the wrong direction,....
I got a message from e-bay that explains they are changing their payment structure. According to that, sellers will need to directly link a bank account to e-bay so that they can receive payments directly from buyers. By May 21, if you do not link a bank account to e-bay, they will not allow new postings! So, the implication is that Paypal is no longer going to work. I don't know about folks here, but I suspect, like me, they are a bit older, financially conservative, and are loathe to link a personal bank account to e-bay. To this day I do not have my paypal account "linked" to my bank account. I can have all my on-line accounts hacked, but none of them have any access to my bank account.
One thing I thought to do is open a small credit union account with low/no fees and use that only for e-bay / paypal and keep the balance low, just in case something gets hacked. But now I have to go to the bank, or perhaps open an account on-line. E-bay is NOT making it easier for the small seller. More and more e-bay is just becoming a venue for cheap Chinese goods and wholesale garbage.
So, just wondering what folks here plan to do about selling their old gear, and working with ebay in the future. Anyone have any good Ideas or workarounds to the e-bay problem, or an alternate e-venue for buying and selling old gear? E-bay has been a collector's and hobbyist's goldmine for 20 years. It's sad to see it continually changing for the worse.
I am sensitive to the fact that this is a topic only tangentially related to Tek or HP gear, so please keep replies relevant to how e-bay is a conduit for acquiring such gear for us. I'm happy to take replies off-group as well, but if it's relevant, I presume we all want to hear about it.
Thanks,
Dan







--
Dennis Tillman W7pF
TekScopes Moderator


Re: New to Tek 465B operation

 

On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 03:20 PM, Jeff Dutky wrote:


You should be wary of any seller that tightly wraps or folds the cables,
For an example of that... and of a probe9s) not to buy... see

The fairly hardy P6109 coax pictured there could probably survive that bending and tying abuse... but these guys... probably not

Those are tight plastic cable ties around that delicate coax... and the coax is being over bent.
--
Roy Thistle


Re: OT! OT! --- E-bay fee change -- OT! OT! Cross posted with HP group.

 

Marian,

I don't know what part of the world that you're in but I RARELY see any
problems on E-bay here in the US. I use both Mozilla and Palemoon.

I don't think that E-bay (US) has given out the buyer's information to
the sellers, or vice versa, in MANY years. They did very early on but I
think that stopped when they started using PayPal since they didn't want
the buyers and sellers to be able to contact each other and make deals
outside of Ebay/PP. I know that years ago I tried to send a buyer or a
seller, I don't recall which, my phone number through E-bay's message
system and E-bay would consistantly reject my message. I finally got around
it by putting the phone number into a JPG image and was able to send that
but I think that E-bay later figured that one out and even found a way to
block that. Many years ago when I was selling a lot of E-bay and I usually
shipped via FedEx and FedEx always wanted the receiver's phone number in
case there was a delivery problem. At the time, I could contact the buyer
through E-bay's message system and have send me their phone number the same
way. But as I said, that was a LONG time ago! Ebay is vastly different
now than when I first started using it and people would send each other
personal checks and even cash through the mail to pay for their purchases.
Someone in Germany once folded up some American dollar bills and put them
inside of a 3 1/2" floppy disk shell and mailed it to me. He didn't warn me
and I didn't know what it was for and almost threw it away when I received
it! Heck, my original buyer/seller name on E-bay WAS my complete E-mail
address! Times change!

On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 3:52 PM Marian B <public@...> wrote:

As I understand it, eBay will no longer provide your account information to
the buyer at all. Instead the buyer pays eBay, which acts as an escrow, and
will eventually pay you (or not). The number of payment options would
therefore be independent of the seller's choices.

Personally what irks me more about eBay is that the site is constantly
broken, has years old bugs like items not being added to the watchlist at
times, bids not registering, login loops, aggressive 2FA verification over
and over again, doesn't properly work with Firefox, and has a rather
obscene 11 % tax on top. 10 % would be acceptable, if their site was
top-notch - but it's not, it's half-working garbage at the best of times.

Cheers, Marian

Am Di., 27. Apr. 2021 um 20:32 Uhr schrieb Daniel Koller via groups.io
<kaboomdk@...>:

Hi folks, this is OFF TOPIC because it's about e-bay, but on the other
hand, with the exception of my older gear, it's just about the only way I
get *any* Tek or HP gear these days. So, with apologies if it drags on
too
long and in the wrong direction,....
I got a message from e-bay that explains they are changing their payment
structure. According to that, sellers will need to directly link a bank
account to e-bay so that they can receive payments directly from buyers.
By May 21, if you do not link a bank account to e-bay, they will not
allow
new postings! So, the implication is that Paypal is no longer going to
work.
I don't know about folks here, but I suspect, like me, they are a bit
older, financially conservative, and are loathe to link a personal bank
account to e-bay. To this day I do not have my paypal account "linked"
to my bank account. I can have all my on-line accounts hacked, but none
of them have any access to my bank account.
One thing I thought to do is open a small credit union account with
low/no fees and use that only for e-bay / paypal and keep the balance
low,
just in case something gets hacked. But now I have to go to the bank,
or
perhaps open an account on-line. E-bay is NOT making it easier for the
small seller. More and more e-bay is just becoming a venue for cheap
Chinese goods and wholesale garbage.
So, just wondering what folks here plan to do about selling their old
gear, and working with ebay in the future. Anyone have any good Ideas or
workarounds to the e-bay problem, or an alternate e-venue for buying and
selling old gear? E-bay has been a collector's and hobbyist's goldmine
for
20 years. It's sad to see it continually changing for the worse.
I am sensitive to the fact that this is a topic only tangentially
related to Tek or HP gear, so please keep replies relevant to how e-bay
is
a conduit for acquiring such gear for us. I'm happy to take replies
off-group as well, but if it's relevant, I presume we all want to hear
about it.
Thanks,
Dan










NEVERMIND: Can anyone use a 453 P6010 (010-0187-00) probe?

 

Thanks to DanG I now know why I have this probe.
It goes with the S-5 Sampling Heads that are part of my collection of
Sampling heads and plugins.
Dennis Tillman W7pF

_____________________________________________
From: Dennis Tillman W7pF [mailto:dennis@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 2:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Can anyone use a 453 P6010 (010-0187-00) probe?


I have a P6010 probe lying around for a long time with nothing that uses it.

It is a miniature 10X 50MHz probe with a 2nSec rise time.
This probe was standard on the 453 scope.
I do not have any accessories for it.
If you are interested contact me off list at dennis at ridesoft dot com.
Dennis Tillman W7pF


Re: New to Tek 465B operation

 

I just want to second Tom suggestion to get some good, cheap modern probes. I have both original Tek probes, and a few sets of cheap Chinese probes from Amazon. The cheap probes work perfectly well, with the exception of not having the readout pin, so you need to do the math in your head, and they're so inexpensive that you don't need to worry about damaging them.

I specifically ordered probes from AST Labs and AUTOUTLET and have been very happy with them. I use them any time I'm doing something that I know might damage my probes. The AUTOUTLET probes are rated to 100 MHz and cost $20 for a pair. The AST Labs probes are rated to 200 MHz and cost $21 for one probe. AST labs also sells a pair of 100 MHz probes for $14. There are also 100 MHz and 200 MHz probes from Hantek, at similar prices, that I would trust as they make a pretty good line of hobby level digital oscilloscopes.

You can also buy original Tek probes on eBay that would match your scope and have readout pins (either P6065 or P6105 are what would have shipped with your scope, but there's also the P6062 that is a switchable 1X/10X probe and should also work with your scope). You should be wary of any seller that tightly wraps or folds the cables, however, as that is a sure way to damage them. Look for the cable to be coiled in a loose circle and not secured too tightly. A good price for such probes is under $40 (before shipping); anything more than that and you could just buy brand new probes (with readout pins) from Cal Test or ProbeMaster.

-- Jeff Dutky


Re: New to Tek 465B operation

 

jgiv510070 wrote:

I¡¯m very hesitant to reseat U375 or any of the socketed transistors because I understand replacements
are difficult to get.
You should not be hesitant to reseat the socketed parts, just be cautious and gentle about the task. Replacing the transistors, at least, is not really a huge problem: many parts are still manufactured, and those that aren't can be found NOS on eBay, or suitable replacements are available new and relatively cheap. Some of the ICs are more difficult to come by, but there are sources for such parts: Qservice in Greece is one good source (they list their parts on eBay) and Sphere Research in Canada is another (they post to this group). The prices are even reasonable.

I'm not sure that this is true of the 465B, but the higher bandwidth older sibling 475A has some transistors with a ferrite bead on one leg. You can see the beads if you look closely, then be careful extracting those transistors to avoid dropping (and losing) the bead. Specifically I have seen such beads on transistors in the vertical amplifier circuit.

You need to get comfortable with reseating these parts because oxidation at the contacts is a common problem, and the fix is to remove the affected parts, clean their leads with a bit of isopropyl alcohol, and re-install them. In some cases you can get away with simply reseating the affected part. I personally had a fault in a 475A where chop blanking was not working. I traced the problem to U340 (a quad NAND gate) that showed signals getting to the pad beneath the socket, but not to the legs of the IC itself. Removing the IC, cleaning the leads, and re-installing it fixed the problem.

-- Jeff Dutky


Can anyone use a 453 P6010 (010-0187-00) probe?

 

I have a P6010 probe lying around for a long time with nothing that uses it.

It is a miniature 10X 50MHz probe with a 2nSec rise time.
This probe was standard on the 453 scope.
I do not have any accessories for it.
If you are interested contact me off list at dennis at ridesoft dot com.
Dennis Tillman W7pF


Re: New to Tek 465B operation

 

If you don't need the bandwidth, and if it's acceptable to you to load the circuit under test with a very large capacitance, then a 1x probe is fine. Since a 1x probe is not much more than a piece of coax with a pointy tip, the manufacturer doesn't matter so much.

Some probes can act as 1x or 10x probes, depending on the position of a switch on the probe. But genuine Tek probes communicate their attenuation factor to the scope automatically through the spring-loaded thing I mentioned previously. No user action is needed. The correct scale light illuminates by itself. If you use an off-label probe, you have to do the math yourself. The scale light for 1x will always be on, so you'll just have to keep track of the decimal point in your head.

There are very inexpensive "P6100" probes available on eBay and other places. These are not nearly as good as Tek probes, but they're also a heck of a lot cheaper. We did a bulk buy of these for our undergraduate teaching labs, and we paid just under $4 each, including shipping. They are rated to 100MHz, and measurements show that they actually meet spec, although they are clearly inferior to true Tek probes (step response has worse aberrations, frequency response is not as flat). But they're a good value for what we need them to do. These have a switch that allows you to select 1x or 10x mode, so they're versatile. They claim a 600V rating, but a teardown shows that they just made up that number. I'd feel nervous about using them above 300V.

--Cheers,
Tom

--
Prof. Thomas H. Lee
Allen Ctr., Rm. 205
350 Jane Stanford Way
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4070

On 4/27/2021 05:18, jgiv510070@... wrote:
Thank you Tom,
I see that now. I don¡¯t have the original probes and have never looked at a set. Generic probes will work ok at 1x or are genuine Tek probes the way to go? Initially I thought that¡¯s what the 10X button was to use the probe as 10X...




Re: New to Tek 465B operation

 

If you don't need the bandwidth, and if it's acceptable to you to load the circuit under test with a very large capacitance, then a 1x probe is fine. Since a 1x probe is not much more than a piece of coax with a pointy tip, the manufacturer doesn't matter so much.

Some probes can act as 1x or 10x probes, depending on the position of a switch on the probe. But genuine Tek probes communicate their attenuation factor to the scope automatically through the spring-loaded thing I mentioned previously. No user action is needed. The correct scale light illuminates by itself. If you use an off-label probe, you have to do the math yourself. The scale light for 1x will always be on, so you'll just have to keep track of the decimal point in your head.

There are very inexpensive "P6100" probes available on eBay and other places. These are not nearly as good as Tek probes, but they're also a heck of a lot cheaper. We did a bulk buy of these for our undergraduate teaching labs, and we paid just under $4 each, including shipping. They are rated to 100MHz, and measurements show that they actually meet spec, although they are clearly inferior to true Tek probes (step response has worse aberrations, frequency response is not as flat). But they're a good value for what we need them to do. These have a switch that allows you to select 1x or 10x mode, so they're versatile. They claim a 600V rating, but a teardown shows that they just made up that number. I'd feel nervous about using them above 300V.

--Cheers,
Tom

--
Prof. Thomas H. Lee
Allen Ctr., Rm. 205
350 Jane Stanford Way
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4070

On 4/27/2021 05:18, jgiv510070@... wrote:
Thank you Tom,
I see that now. I don¡¯t have the original probes and have never looked at a set. Generic probes will work ok at 1x or are genuine Tek probes the way to go? Initially I thought that¡¯s what the 10X button was to use the probe as 10X...