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Re: Grid Bias Adjustment on 475A
On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 02:32 AM, Jeff Dutky wrote:
Jeff, Can you measure the voltage drop across the diode? That is partially how I discovered the "bad" VR1374 on my 475. You should measure 82V across the diode. Here is my conversation with Chuck Harris regarding the problem: ME: I must admit, I do not fully understand the DC Restorer. I have been reading these and other posts on the subject. CHUCK: Have you checked that VR1374 has 82V across it? That 82V puts the grid bias control into the range where the grid is in the cutoff region for the CRT. ME: YES! Testing across VR1374 I get about 66VDC. This seems at odds with your statement quoted above. This is with the + lead on the band side and the - lead on the opposite end of the diode. Reversing the leads gives a negative voltage of similar potential. So I have "Low" voltage and something like you are describing below, correct? CHUCK: High voltage zener's and the capacitors that parallel them often start to break down at too low of a voltage... they become leaky... and that would put your CRT grid into the blindingly bright range. ME: I was expecting 82Volts but perhaps I am not measuring this correctly? From your statement, 60-66VDC would put me in the "blindingly bright range", correct? ME: CR1373 and VR1374 check "good" with a conventional diode check, using a DVM. Both show infinity one direction and .576 VDC in the other. Like I stated previously, the scope works OK for the first 15-20 cold minutes of operation. After that it all goes nuts." END OF QUOTED CONVERSATION. MORE FROM SAME THREAD (after testing): ME: "I may have answered my own question. After writing that post, I thought that I might actually be following or understanding Chuck's explanation and that I might have a bad 82V Zener or a bad capacitor. Since I had a parts scope (the one that the CRT came from) I went out and pulled C1373 and VR1374 from that unit and installed them into my "malfunctional" unit. I am testing now, but the issue seems to be resolved. In addition, I put the unknown or "Bad" VR1374 into my Type576 and 577 curve tracers. In both cases, the component would show a normal Zener curve, then suddenly break down into a crazy looking curve (looked almost like a tunnel diode curve). Not sure what was going on, however, both the 576 and 577 showed the same results." END OF QUOTED CONVERSATION This scenario above may or may not be relevant. But if a "Low" voltage (less than 82V) is "blindingly bright", then does it not make sense that "High" voltage (more than 82V) would cause the display to dim? I can be way wrong, but you see my line of thinking? Good luck! -- Michael Lynch Dardanelle, AR |
Re: SC-502 transistor
Can't help you with data on those GE transistors but WB Parts seems to have has a pile of them in stock:
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They were used by the military and exist under several different nomenclatures. From my experience, the GE "pink" transistors were not particularly stellar performers, having fairly low gain and only moderate bandwidth. They may have been a high reliability part but that's about all I would speculate as being good about them. In lieu of obtaining an original part, if unavailable, consider the following procedure. I've never replaced one of those GE transistors with a like part (and never had to look back), originally preferring to select a suitable RCA device, back when they were still available. Today I would probably use a transistor by ON Semi/Fairchild or perhaps TI, again, selecting one to match parameters required by circuit. I don't have an SC-502 to probe and the manual does not provide any waveforms, so I'm shooting from the hip here: Q855 appears to be the transformer drive transistor in the DC-DC converter that provides most of the internal operating supply voltages. With an input voltage of about 33Vdc and a .3A fuse inline, Q855 does not have to be a very robust part. The 470pf C-B capacitor tells us circuit bandwidth demand is also not terribly high. I might try an On Semi fabbed TIP41, not for its power capacity but because it has the least gain found in that package/device category, perhaps being in the same realm as the GE part. For more gain in an otherwise also over specified part, the On Semi TIP 31C might be a good option. Beyond this, someone else with experience troubleshooting an SC-502 might have more/better information to offer. Thomas Garson Aural Technology, Ashland, OR By my calculation, the dynamic range of the universe is roughly 679dB, which is approximately 225 bits, collected at a rate 1.714287514x10^23 sps. On 1/2/21 6:46 AM, Giovanni Carboni wrote:
GE X44HR242 |
Re: SC-502 transistor
Hi Giovani,
Look for the Tektronix part number in the service manual, it should be something like 151-0426-00. Then use the semiconductor cross reference (big PDF file): And it is indeed D44H11 as already said. What's great with Tektronix is that they use mostly still available/made components. Best regards, |
font/typeface for Tektronix binder spines - was Re: [TekScopes] Push button font
On 2020-12-14 9:04 a.m., toby@... wrote:
On 2020-12-14 12:17 a.m., Chuck Harris wrote:I'm pretty sure it is something put togetherYes, and I don't think it's consistent either; after all, it spanned Turns out I have considered something suitable for binder spines before: View/Reply Online (#146250): /g/TekScopes/message/146250 I also took a shot of my own shelf with some sample setting: /g/TekScopes/album?id=258709 Of course Fjalla isn't the _same_ font as any of the binders, but the binders aren't consistent either, so it might help someone get close to the original look. You could also try horizontal scaling as desired (I couldn't do that in GIMP?!) --Toby --Toby-Chuck Harris |
Re: I built a TM500 mainframe tester, and updated the design. Someone might find this useful?
Ah yes, the switch is physically constructed as two gangs of 12 contacts, with two oppositely opposed wipers per gang.
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You can insert some pins to physically limit rotation so the two wipers never pass more than 6 contacts each and that effectively divides each of the 2 gang of 12 contacts with two wipers into 4 gangs of 6 with their own wiper. It had me confused at first and was a little difficult to find, but it is electrically a 4P6T switch. Well, at least it's working as one in my application. :) On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 10:08 PM, Steve Goldstein wrote:
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Re: A question from the unwashed relative to: I built a TM500 mainframe tester, and updated the design. Someone might find this useful?
Thank you Harvey! That is pretty much what I had surmised but I was not sure. So, I have three function generators and a few DMM etc... My RTB also has a generator and frequency counter and more. Clearly, I paid for my RTB, but it seems to have almost everything I've needed to learn and explore SO FAR!
Clearly I laud the effort that went into the project. Again, thank you Harvey! larry |
Re: Grid Bias Adjustment on 475A
Tom,
Thanks for setting me straight. Yes, when I draw the simple schematic it's pretty obvious what's happening, and why the measured resistance of the pot has a humped profile (when you reach the middle of the range you get current flowing preferentially through the other leg). Damn. I was really hoping that I had this licked (even though it meant pulling the scope completely apart). So I'm still at a loss to explain what's happening here. I guess I'm going to have to put everything back together, power it up, and probe around the live circuit with a scope, and compare against the sample traces in the schematic. Tally-ho! I guess? -- Jeff Dutky |
Re: Grid Bias Adjustment on 475A
Hi Jeff,
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I misunderstood -- I thought that all of your pot measurements were done with at least 2 terminals isolated. If you did not isolate the terminals, your measurements don't really point to anything specific. To understand why, draw a schematic of the pot (two resistors in series, with their junction brought out as the wiper connection). Now represent the (still-connected) other stuff as resistances that connect each terminal of the pot to the other two terminals of the pot. If you stare at that for a second, you'll realize that an ohmmeter will be measuring things besides the pot itself. You'd only be able to indict the pot for sure if you measured higher than 25k. Measurements that are below 25k would be expected, as all that other stuff is in parallel with the pot. So, you can't conclude that the pot is dead. Indeed, I would say that your pot is most likely just fine. Its resistance is varying as you rotate the wiper, and the values are below 25k. That behavior is inconsistent with the standard failure modes of a pot. --Tom -- Prof. Thomas H. Lee Allen Ctr., Rm. 205 350 Jane Stanford Way Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-4070 On 1/2/2021 01:14, Jeff Dutky wrote:
Tom, |
Re: Grid Bias Adjustment on 475A
Tom,
I measure 2.6 K ohms between the two non-wiper terminals, but the pot is still in circuit, so this is really measuring everything that bridges the +50 V and ground planes in parallel, so is this a meaningful measurement? It seems like I've eliminated every other possible suspects, and I don't have any other explanation for the measurements I've gotten for the pot resistance (but what the heck do I know? Am I wrong about what I expect to measure on a 25 K ohm pot?). But I've come this far, and this scope was never meant to be anything other than a parts mule, so taking it down to the studs seems like the logical next step. -- Jeff Dutky |
Re: I built a TM500 mainframe tester, and updated the design. Someone might find this useful?
The ballpark sounds great, count me in!
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Dave S. On Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:31:31 PM PST, Jared Cabot via groups.io <jaredcabot@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jan? 2, 2021 at 06:29 AM, Larry McDavid wrote: One small addendum to this, the PCB's will likely not be black as that is a premium option that adds significant cost. They will most likely come in the usual green (more period accurate! :) ) to save as much on cost as possible. In all other respects they will be identical to what is seen in my video and what is in my hand now. I have also confirmed my design is 100% operational and working correctly on multiple mainframes now. I'll talk to my contacts at PCBWay to see if I can cut a deal for us, but we'll have to be patient for a few days for them to return from holiday. If we were to simply order say 20 sets of the 4 boards with no other discounts etc, it looks like a ballpark figure will be around $35 per set of 4 PCB's, plus additional local shipping etc from Larry as an additional cost. This includes gold plating on the main PCB, and hard gold on the edge connector fingers for added durability with the required chamfering (My PCB just has standard gold all over, so the hard gold is an upgrade). Obviously, the more we get in on the buy, the cheaper it'll become per set. As Larry stated, we'll be working together to get this all sorted as smoothly as possible. :) On Sat, Jan? 2, 2021 at 01:44 PM, Michael W. Lynch wrote: It would require a redesign as you would need to install switches to isolate the transistors for testing, and provide connectors on the front panel etc. so It is out of scope for this project. However, I do have an extender cable project in the works of which it would be trivial to add some test points for the transistors. Stay tuned. :) On Sat, Jan? 2, 2021 at 09:42 AM, Dave Casey wrote: Well there you go, I stand corrected. Actually, thinking about it just now, I do remember seeing some photos of these units around that looked a little more professionally made than any DIY unit. On Sat, Jan? 2, 2021 at 09:39 AM, Dave Casey wrote: This is absolutely correct, I think it was built into a TM500 enclosure for user convenience as it was used solely with the SG505 oscillator IIRC. No reason not to save costs of a TM500 enclosure by sticking it into anything vaguely box shaped available to hand. Tupperware? :D |
Re: Grid Bias Adjustment on 475A
If it is indeed the trimpot, that is an unusual failure mode. I can recall seeing something similar only once, and it was due to a small sliver of solder that managed to bridge the pads connected to the outer two terminals.
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Out of curiosity, what is the resistance you measure between the two non-wiper terminals? --Tom -- Prof. Thomas H. Lee Allen Ctr., Rm. 205 350 Jane Stanford Way Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-4070 On 1/2/2021 00:32, Jeff Dutky wrote:
I lifted one end of C1374 and tested it with my DMM916. It acted much more like a capacitor than like a resistor: while measuring resistance I could see it charge up (the resistance increased over several seconds till it became open circuit) then I switch over to voltage measurement and watched it discharge from about 1.1 V down to 0 V over several seconds). Using the capacitance measure shows this is a 0.8 uF capacitor, which is in spec for a the 1 uF electrolytic shown in the schematic. |
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