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Re: Grid Bias Adjustment on 475A

 

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 02:32 AM, Jeff Dutky wrote:


VR1374 is not shorted (I didn't check that it's breakdown voltage was 82 V, as
I sadly have no way to do that).
Jeff,

Can you measure the voltage drop across the diode? That is partially how I discovered the "bad" VR1374 on my 475. You should measure 82V across the diode. Here is my conversation with Chuck Harris regarding the problem:


ME: I must admit, I do not fully understand the DC Restorer. I have been reading these and other posts on the subject.

CHUCK: Have you checked that VR1374 has 82V across it? That 82V puts the grid
bias control into the range where the grid is in the cutoff region for
the CRT.

ME: YES! Testing across VR1374 I get about 66VDC. This seems at odds with your statement quoted above. This is with the + lead on the band side and the - lead on the opposite end of the diode. Reversing the leads gives a negative voltage of similar potential. So I have "Low" voltage and something like you are describing below, correct?

CHUCK: High voltage zener's and the capacitors that parallel them often start
to break down at too low of a voltage... they become leaky... and that
would put your CRT grid into the blindingly bright range.

ME: I was expecting 82Volts but perhaps I am not measuring this correctly? From your statement, 60-66VDC would put me in the "blindingly bright range", correct?

ME: CR1373 and VR1374 check "good" with a conventional diode check, using a DVM. Both show infinity one direction and .576 VDC in the other.

Like I stated previously, the scope works OK for the first 15-20 cold minutes of operation. After that it all goes nuts."

END OF QUOTED CONVERSATION.

MORE FROM SAME THREAD (after testing):

ME: "I may have answered my own question. After writing that post, I thought that I might actually be following or understanding Chuck's explanation and that I might have a bad 82V Zener or a bad capacitor. Since I had a parts scope (the one that the CRT came from) I went out and pulled C1373 and VR1374 from that unit and installed them into my "malfunctional" unit. I am testing now, but the issue seems to be resolved. In addition, I put the unknown or "Bad" VR1374 into my Type576 and 577 curve tracers. In both cases, the component would show a normal Zener curve, then suddenly break down into a crazy looking curve (looked almost like a tunnel diode curve). Not sure what was going on, however, both the 576 and 577 showed the same results."

END OF QUOTED CONVERSATION

This scenario above may or may not be relevant. But if a "Low" voltage (less than 82V) is "blindingly bright", then does it not make sense that "High" voltage (more than 82V) would cause the display to dim? I can be way wrong, but you see my line of thinking?

Good luck!
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR


Re: SC-502 transistor

 

Can't help you with data on those GE transistors but WB Parts seems to
have has a pile of them in stock:
Why bother trying to find unobtainum parts when Tektronix specifies "official" modern/current production substitutes (see crossref document)?


Re: SC-502 transistor

 

Can't help you with data on those GE transistors but WB Parts seems to have has a pile of them in stock:


They were used by the military and exist under several different nomenclatures.

From my experience, the GE "pink" transistors were not particularly stellar performers, having fairly low gain and only moderate bandwidth. They may have been a high reliability part but that's about all I would speculate as being good about them.

In lieu of obtaining an original part, if unavailable, consider the following procedure.

I've never replaced one of those GE transistors with a like part (and never had to look back), originally preferring to select a suitable RCA device, back when they were still available. Today I would probably use a transistor by ON Semi/Fairchild or perhaps TI, again, selecting one to match parameters required by circuit.

I don't have an SC-502 to probe and the manual does not provide any waveforms, so I'm shooting from the hip here:
Q855 appears to be the transformer drive transistor in the DC-DC converter that provides most of the internal operating supply voltages. With an input voltage of about 33Vdc and a .3A fuse inline, Q855 does not have to be a very robust part. The 470pf C-B capacitor tells us circuit bandwidth demand is also not terribly high. I might try an On Semi fabbed TIP41, not for its power capacity but because it has the least gain found in that package/device category, perhaps being in the same realm as the GE part. For more gain in an otherwise also over specified part, the On Semi TIP 31C might be a good option.

Beyond this, someone else with experience troubleshooting an SC-502 might have more/better information to offer.

Thomas Garson
Aural Technology, Ashland, OR
By my calculation, the dynamic range of the universe is roughly 679dB,
which is approximately 225 bits, collected at a rate 1.714287514x10^23 sps.

On 1/2/21 6:46 AM, Giovanni Carboni wrote:
GE X44HR242


Re: SC-502 transistor

 

Hi Giovani,

Look for the Tektronix part number in the service manual, it should be something like 151-0426-00.
Then use the semiconductor cross reference (big PDF file):
And it is indeed D44H11 as already said.
What's great with Tektronix is that they use mostly still available/made components.

Best regards,


font/typeface for Tektronix binder spines - was Re: [TekScopes] Push button font

 

On 2020-12-14 9:04 a.m., toby@... wrote:
On 2020-12-14 12:17 a.m., Chuck Harris wrote:
I'm pretty sure it is something put together
by Tektronix's graphics department.
Yes, and I don't think it's consistent either; after all, it spanned
several decades. It would probably be possible to find a suitable free
bold, compressed font that resembles it.

Turns out I have considered something suitable for binder spines before:

View/Reply Online (#146250): /g/TekScopes/message/146250

I also took a shot of my own shelf with some sample setting:
/g/TekScopes/album?id=258709

Of course Fjalla isn't the _same_ font as any of the binders, but the
binders aren't consistent either, so it might help someone get close to
the original look. You could also try horizontal scaling as desired (I
couldn't do that in GIMP?!)

--Toby




--Toby

-Chuck Harris

snapdiode via groups.io wrote:
Cough, cough... Can someone perhaps identify the font(s) used on the plastic CombBind spines of the manuals?













Re: SC-502 transistor

 

From Tek specs, it's a D44H11 NPN, currently available from STMicroelectronics, OnSemi, etc. at price of approx. 90 eurocents each
Icmax = 10 A
Bvceo = 80V
hFE 60 @ Ic = 2 A
Vcesat = 1 V
ft min = 50 MHz

Cheers,
Max


11801C T2325 error diagnostic repair

 

Can anyone shed light on what is involved in repairing a unit showing that error?

Thanks,
Reg


Re: I built a TM500 mainframe tester, and updated the design. Someone might find this useful?

 

Ah yes, the switch is physically constructed as two gangs of 12 contacts, with two oppositely opposed wipers per gang.
You can insert some pins to physically limit rotation so the two wipers never pass more than 6 contacts each and that effectively divides each of the 2 gang of 12 contacts with two wipers into 4 gangs of 6 with their own wiper.

It had me confused at first and was a little difficult to find, but it is electrically a 4P6T switch.

Well, at least it's working as one in my application. :)

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 10:08 PM, Steve Goldstein wrote:


Jared,

Your manual lists S3 as 4P6T. Entering that part number in Digikey shows it
as 2P6T. Is there a typo somewhere?


Re: A question from the unwashed relative to: I built a TM500 mainframe tester, and updated the design. Someone might find this useful?

 

Thank you Harvey! That is pretty much what I had surmised but I was not sure. So, I have three function generators and a few DMM etc... My RTB also has a generator and frequency counter and more. Clearly, I paid for my RTB, but it seems to have almost everything I've needed to learn and explore SO FAR!

Clearly I laud the effort that went into the project.

Again, thank you Harvey! larry


Re: I built a TM500 mainframe tester, and updated the design. Someone might find this useful?

 

I also would be interested in a set
Stan


SC-502 transistor

 

HNY to everybody!

In my SC-502 scope transistor Q855 died. It is a GE X44HR242 in TO220 case,
but I was unable to get its specifications
in order to find a suitable substitute.
Thanks for your help

Giovanni


Re: I built a TM500 mainframe tester, and updated the design. Someone might find this useful?

 

ADT name to the list as well, please.


Re: I built a TM500 mainframe tester, and updated the design. Someone might find this useful?

 

Hi all,

I'll add my name to the list as well. You have to grab these things as they go by!

Cheers
Phil / W1PJE


Re: I built a TM500 mainframe tester, and updated the design. Someone might find this useful?

 

Jared,

Your manual lists S3 as 4P6T. Entering that part number in Digikey shows it as 2P6T. Is there a typo somewhere?


Re: Grid Bias Adjustment on 475A

 

Tom,

Thanks for setting me straight. Yes, when I draw the simple schematic it's pretty obvious what's happening, and why the measured resistance of the pot has a humped profile (when you reach the middle of the range you get current flowing preferentially through the other leg). Damn. I was really hoping that I had this licked (even though it meant pulling the scope completely apart).

So I'm still at a loss to explain what's happening here. I guess I'm going to have to put everything back together, power it up, and probe around the live circuit with a scope, and compare against the sample traces in the schematic.

Tally-ho! I guess?

-- Jeff Dutky


Re: Grid Bias Adjustment on 475A

 

Hi Jeff,

I misunderstood -- I thought that all of your pot measurements were done with at least 2 terminals isolated. If you did not isolate the terminals, your measurements don't really point to anything specific.

To understand why, draw a schematic of the pot (two resistors in series, with their junction brought out as the wiper connection). Now represent the (still-connected) other stuff as resistances that connect each terminal of the pot to the other two terminals of the pot. If you stare at that for a second, you'll realize that an ohmmeter will be measuring things besides the pot itself. You'd only be able to indict the pot for sure if you measured higher than 25k. Measurements that are below 25k would be expected, as all that other stuff is in parallel with the pot.

So, you can't conclude that the pot is dead. Indeed, I would say that your pot is most likely just fine. Its resistance is varying as you rotate the wiper, and the values are below 25k. That behavior is inconsistent with the standard failure modes of a pot.

--Tom

--
Prof. Thomas H. Lee
Allen Ctr., Rm. 205
350 Jane Stanford Way
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4070

On 1/2/2021 01:14, Jeff Dutky wrote:
Tom,

I measure 2.6 K ohms between the two non-wiper terminals, but the pot is still in circuit, so this is really measuring everything that bridges the +50 V and ground planes in parallel, so is this a meaningful measurement?

It seems like I've eliminated every other possible suspects, and I don't have any other explanation for the measurements I've gotten for the pot resistance (but what the heck do I know? Am I wrong about what I expect to measure on a 25 K ohm pot?).

But I've come this far, and this scope was never meant to be anything other than a parts mule, so taking it down to the studs seems like the logical next step.

-- Jeff Dutky




Re: I built a TM500 mainframe tester, and updated the design. Someone might find this useful?

 

Please add me to the list! it is an interesting project!
Thanks
Mike


Re: Grid Bias Adjustment on 475A

 

Tom,

I measure 2.6 K ohms between the two non-wiper terminals, but the pot is still in circuit, so this is really measuring everything that bridges the +50 V and ground planes in parallel, so is this a meaningful measurement?

It seems like I've eliminated every other possible suspects, and I don't have any other explanation for the measurements I've gotten for the pot resistance (but what the heck do I know? Am I wrong about what I expect to measure on a 25 K ohm pot?).

But I've come this far, and this scope was never meant to be anything other than a parts mule, so taking it down to the studs seems like the logical next step.

-- Jeff Dutky


Re: I built a TM500 mainframe tester, and updated the design. Someone might find this useful?

 

The ballpark sounds great, count me in!
Dave S.

On Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:31:31 PM PST, Jared Cabot via groups.io <jaredcabot@...> wrote:

On Sat, Jan? 2, 2021 at 06:29 AM, Larry McDavid wrote:


Note that Jared has updated the main PWB Gerber file and the Instruction
Manual file; if you downloaded those earlier, you need to get the new files.

Jared and I are discussing how best to order these sets of PWBs. He is
familiar with the ordering details specifying board material, plating
and edge chamfering so I welcome his support on this. I will order the
board sets and repackage and ship them to those who commit to the
purchase. The produced boards should look like those in his YouTube video.
One small addendum to this, the PCB's will likely not be black as that is a premium option that adds significant cost. They will most likely come in the usual green (more period accurate! :) ) to save as much on cost as possible.
In all other respects they will be identical to what is seen in my video and what is in my hand now. I have also confirmed my design is 100% operational and working correctly on multiple mainframes now.
I'll talk to my contacts at PCBWay to see if I can cut a deal for us, but we'll have to be patient for a few days for them to return from holiday.

If we were to simply order say 20 sets of the 4 boards with no other discounts etc, it looks like a ballpark figure will be around $35 per set of 4 PCB's, plus additional local shipping etc from Larry as an additional cost.
This includes gold plating on the main PCB, and hard gold on the edge connector fingers for added durability with the required chamfering (My PCB just has standard gold all over, so the hard gold is an upgrade).
Obviously, the more we get in on the buy, the cheaper it'll become per set.

As Larry stated, we'll be working together to get this all sorted as smoothly as possible. :)



On Sat, Jan? 2, 2021 at 01:44 PM, Michael W. Lynch wrote:


Jared,

Is there a way to easily bring the EBC of each pass transistor to the front
panel?? These transistors are items that often fail and need to be tested,
especially on these old frames.? Not trying to throw a wrench into the works,
but those pass transistors are a major point of failure and they can cause all
sorts of damage to the plug ins when they are bad.? Even if you could add some
pads near the appropriate connections at the rear to allow those of us who
wanted to add such functionality at our option?

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR
It would require a redesign as you would need to install switches to isolate the transistors for testing, and provide connectors on the front panel etc. so It is out of scope for this project.
However, I do have an extender cable project in the works of which it would be trivial to add some test points for the transistors. Stay tuned. :)



On Sat, Jan? 2, 2021 at 09:42 AM, Dave Casey wrote:


I have one of the originals, and it is almost certainly "Tek" built as
opposed to built from the plans. For one thing, it has a Tek serial number
label and silkscreened front panel.

Dave Casey
Well there you go, I stand corrected.
Actually, thinking about it just now, I do remember seeing some photos of these units around that looked a little more professionally made than any DIY unit.



On Sat, Jan? 2, 2021 at 09:39 AM, Dave Casey wrote:


I believe the notch filter could be built in any form factor. IIRC it does
not use power from the mainframe, so there's no reason it has to be in a
TM-style enclosure.

Dave Casey
This is absolutely correct, I think it was built into a TM500 enclosure for user convenience as it was used solely with the SG505 oscillator IIRC.
No reason not to save costs of a TM500 enclosure by sticking it into anything vaguely box shaped available to hand. Tupperware? :D


Re: Grid Bias Adjustment on 475A

 

If it is indeed the trimpot, that is an unusual failure mode. I can recall seeing something similar only once, and it was due to a small sliver of solder that managed to bridge the pads connected to the outer two terminals.

Out of curiosity, what is the resistance you measure between the two non-wiper terminals?

--Tom

--
Prof. Thomas H. Lee
Allen Ctr., Rm. 205
350 Jane Stanford Way
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4070

On 1/2/2021 00:32, Jeff Dutky wrote:
I lifted one end of C1374 and tested it with my DMM916. It acted much more like a capacitor than like a resistor: while measuring resistance I could see it charge up (the resistance increased over several seconds till it became open circuit) then I switch over to voltage measurement and watched it discharge from about 1.1 V down to 0 V over several seconds). Using the capacitance measure shows this is a 0.8 uF capacitor, which is in spec for a the 1 uF electrolytic shown in the schematic.

i checked CR1371 and CR1373 in circuit using the diode check mode of the 916 and they both measured 0.536 V forward voltage drop. They look good.

I measured the trim pot (R1375) while C1373, C1374, and VR1374 were lifted. The trim cap has a range of travel of about 280 degrees:

0 deg = 0 ohms
45 deg = 3.1 K ohms
90 deg = 4.8 K ohms
135 deg = 7.0 K ohms
180 deg = 6.75 ohms
225 deg = 4.3 K ohms
270 deg = 2.7 K ohms

The specified value of R1375 is 25 K ohms, and I expect that it should range smoothly from 0 ohms to 25 K ohms.

I also verified continuity between R1375 and both the ground and +50 V rails.

I checked C1373 (the cap in parallel with VR1374) and it measured as 96.5 nF (it's specced as 0.1 uF on the schematic), so that looks good.

VR1374 is not shorted (I didn't check that it's breakdown voltage was 82 V, as I sadly have no way to do that).

This really seems to point to the trim pot as the culprit, which means I need to get the main interface board out. Joy.

-- Jeff Dutky