Chuck Harris
I'm pretty sure I understood what Raymond was saying.
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Raymond always writes very clearly: 1) Scope plugged in, but turned *off*. 2) A5 board installed in scope. 3) Desoldering, and resoldering NVRAM. 4) Worrying about soldering iron tip grounding /WE, /CE, or /OE, and activating the NVRAM to overwrite its contents. .: Presents scheme to connect soldering iron's tip grounding to Vcc, to prevent /WE, /CE, and /OE from being driven low when desoldering/soldering them... (Note: Since any reasonable soldering/desoldering station has its tip hard wired to earth ground, bringing its tip's ground to VCC is the same as grounding VCC) What I am saying is, if the Dallas NVRAM's controller cannot handle the grounding of /WE, /CE, or /OE, without writing to the contents of the NVRAM, it cannot handle being powered off. That would be a major fail for Dallas. A fail that I have never witnessed. I was one of Dallas's early adopters, having used some of their preproduction NVRAMs to fix my own EEPROM design fail. I believe the problem is that Raymond thinks the NVRAM is passing the /WE, /CE, and /OE signals straight through to the internal CMOS RAM, and the lithium cell is simply keeping VCC up to save the RAM contents. I believe his thinking is that grounding out the control signals may activate the CMOS RAM to write over some random cell's contents. The problem with that belief is the Dallas NVRAM's whole purpose in being is to prevent that scenario. One of the capabilities of the NVRAM that Dallas featured was the designer's ability to preprogram the NVRAM, and then wave solder the programmed part into the circuit board. Something that I caused done thousands of times. I first came to use Dallas NVRAM's as a young engineer, when I believed that EEPROMS, such as the X2816 worked in the way their data sheets implied. The early data sheets didn't emphasize that /WE, /CE, and /OE remained functional until VCC was down to, I think, 1.5V... This created a situation where the address, data, and control lines for the bus all were in a race to the bottom as the power supplies came crashing down during power off. If /WE hit active LOW before VCC hit 1.5V, the EEPROM could get written to... just what Raymond fears might happen with the NVRAM. I feel badly about making that mistake, but I take some slight solace in knowing that I wasn't the only one. I have seen X2816's misused in dozens of products by dozens of different manufacturers. Analyzing some of those products has shown creative software fixes for the random data lost due to power down. Most seemed to settle on writing the data in multiple places and voting on the rightness of the data... before cleaning up the record. Meanwhile, Dallas exploited that failure to take the market from the X2816. -Chuck Harris Steve Hendrix wrote: At 2019-08-12 09:35 AM, Chuck Harris wrote:Thank you for the refresher about the Dallas NVRAM control chip. I believe you are correct, but it's been a lot of years since I designed one into a circuit. |